Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery aka The One Publication

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Right! This is the key point of the One Publication document.

Protecting their name may be the key point to you, but it is certainly not the key objection.

“I never published anything by myself. I always mailed my manuscript to the Gospel Room, which was under Brother Nee and his helper. It was up to their discernment whether my manuscript should be published or not.” Post #1 — Publication work in the Lord’s recovery, Being restricted in one publication.

“It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there. They may contain some biblical doctrines, but any point of life or light has been adopted from the publications of Living Stream Ministry. There is nearly no item of life or light that has not been covered by our publications. Based upon this fact, what is the need for these brothers to put out their publications?” Post #1 — Publication work in the Lord’s recovery, Being restricted in one publication.

The objection that I have is that LSM wants to stop anyone else from doing what they are doing. That was a major justification for the discipline on Titus Chu. That is why they warn the saints away from forums like this. That is why WL said it bothered him that saints put out publications. If WL can speak for the Lord why would he try to stop others speaking for the Lord?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Protecting their name may be the key point to you, but it is certainly not the key objection.

ZNP,

"Protecting their name" is not the key point, ....really not even a meaningful point in my view.

Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP,

"Protecting their name" is not the key point, ....really not even a meaningful point in my view.

Drake

Hardly.

"Protecting their name" is not the key point, it's the only point.

WL and the Blendeds have repeatedly sacrificed people and principle in order to protect their names.

LSM has become little more than a ruthless business, wining and dining shady Hank Hanegraaff for publishing favorable reports, and throwing the Cleveland brothers under the bus for publishing unfavorable reports.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP,

"Protecting their name" is not the key point, ....really not even a meaningful point in my view.

Drake

Unless I have misread LSM's documentation on the "One Publication" you cannot claim to submit to this doctrine without vetting anything you publish with them.

Now they may not take issue with some very minor publications that are distributed locally, but they would certainly take issue with anything posted on this forum since it is extra local.

Since I only recognize 1 mediator between God and Man, the man Jesus Christ, I am not willing to submit to this beggarly rule.

Since you have already stated for the record that you are not vetting your posts through LSM I cannot understand how you can defend this doctrine if you don't actually submit to it.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Unless I have misread LSM's documentation on the "One Publication" you cannot claim to submit to this doctrine without vetting anything you publish with them.

Now they may not take issue with some very minor publications that are distributed locally, but they would certainly take issue with anything posted on this forum since it is extra local.

Since I only recognize 1 mediator between God and Man, the man Jesus Christ, I am not willing to submit to this beggarly rule.

Since you have already stated for the record that you are not vetting your posts through LSM I cannot understand how you can defend this doctrine if you don't actually submit to it.

Yes, you have misread or misapplied the "One Publication" and I have provided my viewpoint on that through my personal correspondences with Trapped posted in this forum.

There are no LSM police running around trying to control people, telling them what they can read or whether or not they can publish (Titus Chu publishes and sells books yet today....doesn't he?). That would be pointless and impossible to execute even if they were so inclined (which they are not). Yet, the bigger issue is that unless a serving one is under the governing vision of the cross there will be problems. It seems like a simple matter about publishing something but then just a little deviation in one's service opens the door to manifold problems. If God's enemy were blatant then believers would not fall for his wiles. But he is subtle and so creates a small opening, like a crack in the wall, that later turns into something that a Mack truck can be driven through.

Then you end up with a situation like this:

"Today there are churches which are still passing through turmoil because of the influence of Titus Chu and certain divisive workers under his leadership. These workers have deviated from the central lane of God's economy in their teaching and actions. They have propagated unprincipled attacks on the co-workers in the Lord's recovery and Living Stream Ministry via Web sites and anonymous spam e-mails disseminated worldwide. Their speaking is unhealthy, full of revilings and destructive words, leading those who follow these dissenting ones into division and worldliness."

So, personally, I appreciate that there are brother's who are mindful of the ministry in the Lord's recovery they have been entrusted with and will address potential issues head on. That's a good and responsible thing to do.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

So, personally, I appreciate that there are brother's who are mindful of the ministry in the Lord's recovery they have been entrusted with and will address potential issues head on. That's a good and responsible thing to do.

LSM has the right to define the terms of association with them.

They have no right to condemn anyone for choosing not to do so. Whether blatantly or by implying they have left the "central lane of God's economy," which is just BS and double-talk designed to intimidate, anyway.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

LSM has the right to define the terms of association with them.

They have no right to condemn anyone for choosing not to do so. Whether blatantly or by implying they have left the "central lane of God's economy," which is just BS and double-talk designed to intimidate, anyway.

Judge not lest you be judged. I think much of what we share on this forum indicates that they have "left the central lane of God's economy".

When we talk about pure religion being the care of orphans and widows we are making the point that they have left this. When we point out that the apostle's fellowship was to not sue your brother we are pointing out that they have "left the apostle's fellowship" and "gone out from us".

So I think it is fair to conclude that we also have judged that the Blendeds "have left the central lane of God's economy", though instead of all the mumbo jumbo we would use a more scriptural term: "they have left the fellowship of the apostles and gone out from them".

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

J
So I think it is fair to conclude that we also have judged that the Blendeds "have left the central lane of God's economy", though instead of all the mumbo jumbo we would use a more scriptural term: "they have left the fellowship of the apostles and gone out from them".

The difference is I'm not saying you have to follow my ministry to be in the central lane. I don't say people can't write books and try to market them to my church. I'm saying the LC leadership should back off and stop being so controlling. That's their sin and that is not something the rest of the Church should tolerate in the way we tolerate other differences.

Here's the bottom line:

There is no "Lord's Recovery." That concept was created to define a special elite club which its caretakers market. They define what it is and what its beliefs are, and hence who is "in" and who is "out."

They proclaim, with amazingly straight faces, which probably implies they actually believe it themselves, that if you are not in this club you are not up to par. But they and they alone have power to define what the rules are for being in the club. If you do and say what they like, you are in. If you don't, you are out. All this controlled by a small group of people.

If you are a member in good standing of their club--which again exists only in their own minds--they will approve you. If you are not, they will discredit you. So they take it upon themselves to be the judges of everyone. They have no problem using these means of intimidation to try to get their way.

Now, does anyone really think that is how God operates?

History shows that God does not operate that way at all. God has always raised up people as he saw fit to innovate and reform his work. Because of this very fact, he has always required us to give freedom to others to follow their consciences and not nitpick about details to try to retain control and numbers.

So their saying they are protecting the purity of their revelation is just wrongheaded. No one's revelation is so pure that it needs to be protected to the point of shutting out all other ideas. Again God just doesn't work that way. He can't. So their attitude actually produces the opposite of what they think it will. Instead of preserving light, it produces ever-increasing dimness.

Titus Chu believed in all the basics of what Lee taught. Yes, he had some other ideas. But anyone who knows how things work realizes that none of us are qualified to do thumbs down on someone simply because they have some minor differences.

But that is exactly the way the LC leadership thinks. They think they get to define what is best and what isn't in the most manipulative and intimidating way that they can--while still preserving plausible deniability. They are completely off base.

That is why they have had no growth in 40 years. Because the Lord left their club to them desolate.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Yes, you have misread or misapplied the "One Publication" and I have provided my viewpoint on that though my personal correspondences with Trapped posted in this forum.

There are no LSM police running around trying to control people, telling them what they can read or whether or not they can publish (Titus Chu publishes and sells books yet today....doesn't he?). That would be pointless and impossible to execute even if they were so inclined (which they are not).

Let's not conflate the issue, I have not said one word about LSM controlling what you can read. I am not aware of what Titus is doing today, however I am aware that he was disciplined by the Blended brothers for "not being absolute for the ministry of WL and WN" and for "publishing" outside of their control.

Originally Posted by Drake

Yet, the bigger issue is that unless a serving one is under the governing vision of the cross there will be problems. It seems like a simple matter about publishing something but then just a little deviation in one's service opens the door to manifold problems. If God's enemy were blatant then believers would not fall for his wiles. But he is subtle and so creates a small opening, like a crack in the wall, that later turns into something that a Mack truck can be driven through.

Then you end up with a situation like this:

"Today there are churches which are still passing through turmoil because of the influence of Titus Chu and certain divisive workers under his leadership. These workers have deviated from the central lane of God's economy in their teaching and actions. They have propagated unprincipled attacks on the co-workers in the Lord's recovery and Living Stream Ministry via Web sites and anonymous spam e-mails disseminated worldwide. Their speaking is unhealthy, full of revilings and destructive words, leading those who follow these dissenting ones into division and worldliness."

So, personally, I appreciate that there are brother's who are mindful of the ministry in the Lord's recovery they have been entrusted with and will address potential issues head on. That's a good and responsible thing to do.

Drake

Still don't understand the bigger issue. Is it that there are those who are "propagating unprincipled attacks on the co-workers in the Lord's recovery"?

If that is the "bigger issue" then this doctrine is stupider and more ridiculous than I even imagined. The Lord said "[It is] sufficient for the disciple that he should become as his teacher, and the bondman as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more those of his household?"

If you are a disciple of the Lord it comes with the territory. If you don't realize that then you are a fool or a pretend disciple.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

There are no LSM police running around trying to control people, telling them what they can read or whether or not they can publish (Titus Chu publishes and sells books yet today....doesn't he?). That would be pointless and impossible to execute even if they were so inclined (which they are not). Yet, the bigger issue is that unless a serving one is under the governing vision of the cross there will be problems. It seems like a simple matter about publishing something but then just a little deviation in one's service opens the door to manifold problems. It seems like a simple matter about publishing something but then just a little deviation in one's service opens the door to manifold problems. If God's enemy were blatant then believers would not fall for his wiles. But he is subtle and so creates a small opening, like a crack in the wall, that later turns into something that a Mack truck can be driven through.

Then you end up with a situation like this: "Today there are churches which are still passing through turmoil because of the influence of Titus Chu and certain divisive workers under his leadership. These workers have deviated from the central lane of God's economy in their teaching and actions. They have propagated unprincipled attacks on the co-workers in the Lord's recovery and Living Stream Ministry via Web sites and anonymous spam e-mails disseminated worldwide. Their speaking is unhealthy, full of revilings and destructive words, leading those who follow these dissenting ones into division and worldliness."

This is laughable. Or perhaps I should be crying.

And Mr. Drake who are these "brothers" who alone can judge whether Titus Chu is a "serving one under the governing vision of the cross?" Their chief condemnation of Titus Chu at the Whistler Kangaroo Court was that he visited and ministered in China after WL told him not to. Ought not TC have the right to obey God, and not man? (Acts 4.19; 5.29)

Would these ones be the Blended Bosses at LSM? Those same ones who protected Philip Lee, a known abusive sexual predator operating under the protections of his father? Those same ones who launched a slanderous smear campaign against the men of God who tried to protect the saints, brothers like John Ingalls, John So, Bill Mallon, etc?

Do you expect us to believe these Blended Bosses at LSM -- BP, RK, MC -- are uniquely able to discern who is "serving one under the governing vision of the cross?" Unbelievable!

Let me suggest that Drake's "crack in the wall" metaphor, the so-called "deviation," actually refers to the failed and errant teachings at LSM. Look, for example, at the situation in China. First LSM claimed 10 million followers in China, called "Shouters". Then they disowned them all when abnormalities arose, so-called "Mack Trucks," which sullied LSM's pristine reputation. Instead of ministering to these new-borns, they try to stop ministers like TC, who was born in China, from returning to help their fledgling faith. One day LSM will be judged for this. They abandoned these young ones, and prevented others from helping them. True modern day Pharisees. (Mt 23.13)

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And Mr. Drake who are these "brothers" who alone can judge whether Titus Chu is a "serving one under the governing vision of the cross?"

More intimidation. The "governing vision of the cross" to those brothers is that you do whatever those brothers tell you to do. There's really nothing more to it, other than grandiose phraseology and phony posturing.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

More intimidation. The "governing vision of the cross" to those brothers is that you do whatever those brothers tell you to do. There's really nothing more to it, other than grandiose phraseology and phony posturing.

LSM's checkered history is so fraught with error and unrighteousness that for them to cite the "governing vision of the cross" is an affront to every minister on earth.