Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery aka The One Publication

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I can be sufficiently on board with the rest where you differentiate between the Lord's recovery being all the churches versus the ministry being one part of it.

Trapped

Good, Trapped, because that was a main point.

Understand that in trying to help answer your inquiry about two apparently contradictory statements in a single document I am conveying the authors (plural) thoughts in context. They are not contradictory in my understanding but they are in yours so this is a conversation to give my best shot at explaining how I see it and then you can do what you like with it.

So, to that end, besides the part you understand quoted above do you also understand how Brother Lee used the analogy of an trumpet to assemble an army with no uncertain sounding as the ministry (trumpet) with One Publication (as the uncertain component) and how that “sounding” is a call to the churches to assemble (as an army) for battle?

If so, from the base note last section do you also understand how Brother Lee made the distinction of an army in a country as being distinct in purpose and function from the civilians though both are part of the same country?

It doesn’t matter whether you agree with the analogy. In this conversation between us it doesn’t even matter if you accept the application of I Corinthians 14:8 in the analogy. All that matters is if you understand how the author understood and explained it.

I’ll pause here for your confirmation before proceeding. So far, we have only discussed one of the contradictory statements but once we understand this one we will juxtapose with the other.

Drake

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Trapped

It's not true 40 times over. The title of the One Publication DOES say "in the Lord's recovery". "The Lord's recovery" is the backdrop against which the One Publication is painted, it is the setting upon which is couched, it is the overarching theme from which it cannot be divorced. I am not making that claim in a vacuum.....the almost 40 references to the Lord's recovery within the document itself make that undeniable.

Excellent! Getting there...getting there...and...

Originally Posted by Trapped

I disagree with your statement that the army is for the churches. The army IS the church.

Bingo!

Our friend Drake wants us to believe The One Publication was produced in a vacuum. He also wants us to believe that it was written by some people who are merely employees of a publishing company. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Let us never forget what the true mandate of Living Stream Ministry really is. It is a California corporation whose sole purpose to be "brother Lee's continuation". The leadership of this California corporation is composed of men who have sworn total allegiance to the person and work of Witness Lee. They have dubbed themselves as "The Blended Brothers". These men function very much like the college of Cardinals in the Roman Catholic Church (sans the funny hats!) These are the men who produced The One Publication.

Drake would also have us believe that the Living Stream Ministry is a separate entity from "the local churches". This is even farther from the truth than the myth of LSM simply being a publishing company. The leaders of LSM ARE THE LEADERS OF THE LOCAL CHURCH OF WITNESS LEE. These men dictate what will and will not be disseminated and "fellowshipped" in the various local churches. No local church is considered as "a genuine local church" without following the dictates from these Blended Brothers. Again, to be clear, these are the men who produced the One Publication.

Carry on Trapped, you're doing a great job. Just be careful of letting Drake take you down one of his bottomless rabbit holes.
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[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

Good, Trapped, because that was a main point.

Understand that in trying to help answer your inquiry about two apparently contradictory statements in a single document I am conveying the authors (plural) thoughts in context. They are not contradictory in my understanding but they are in yours so this is a conversation to give my best shot at explaining how I see it and then you can do what you like with it.

So, to that end, besides the part you understand quoted above do you also understand how Brother Lee used the analogy of an trumpet to assemble an army with no uncertain sounding as the ministry (trumpet) with One Publication (as the uncertain component) and how that “sounding” is a call to the churches to assemble (as an army) for battle?

If so, from the base note last section do you also understand how Brother Lee made the distinction of an army in a country as being distinct in purpose and function from the civilians though both are part of the same country?

It doesn’t matter whether you agree with the analogy. In this conversation between us it doesn’t even matter if you accept the application of I Corinthians 14:8 in the analogy. All that matters is if you understand how the author understood and explained it.

I’ll pause here for your confirmation before proceeding. So far, we have only discussed one of the contradictory statements but once we understand this one we will juxtapose with the other.

Drake

Drake!

This is so fascinating. So, so fascinating!

Of course since my neurons and synapses fire similarly to everyone else's, I do understand mentally the analogy you describe. The problem is the analogy draws from something other than the One Publication: the Bible. And in reading the portion of the scriptures that it draws from, the analogy literally just isn't there. If the very foundation of the analogy falls apart at the outset (i.e. there is no such thing as "the one trumpet" based upon the very verses from which the trumpet motif is taken), what on earth is the point in trying to build anything upon it?!

If I took 1 Corinthians 14:7 and said "since there is a flute and a harp there must be an orchestra. We must have the one flute in the one orchestra for the one symphony in the Lord's recovery. Please note that if you do not play in this one orchestra, it does not mean you are not a musician, but who should ever listen to your music if you are not in the one orchestra? There is no benefit there and any sound you produce must be carefully discerned before listening." And the One Publication became a proclamation that the saints in the churches should only buy CDs and mp3s of the music put out by the "One Orchestra". What would you do?

I hope you would say, "Whoa, whoa......hold on. There is no "One Orchestra". The verses are not talking about having an orchestra! It's talking about speaking in an orderly way in the meetings. I'm not going to go buy a tuba and learn how to play the tuba because brother Lee misapplied or overapplied the analogy of the sound of a flute when Paul was comparing the sound it made to the sound of a believer's sharing in a meeting!"

Same concept for the army. If you wouldn't entertain the concept of a One Orchestra based on 1 Cor. 14:7, why entertain the concept of a one trumpet being the One Publication based on 1 Cor. 14:8?

Now I understand other posters' reference to the king without clothes. It's like......."psssst....but....they're not there! The clothes aren't there! The analogy, the inference, the extrapolation......it isn't there! Why is there a big gathering and parade and push to celebrate the king's clothes when there are no clothes? Why are we being "called" by brother Lee to gather around the extrapolation of an analogy that isn't there and that the Lord isn't calling us to?"

It is so fascinating. There are some people for whom all things must make logical sense in order to build upon it. There are others who can dismiss the logic and keep building. I am the former. I cannot do the latter.

Trapped

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Trapped

I do understand mentally the analogy you describe. The problem is the analogy draws from something other than the One Publication: the Bible.

Trapped, its promising that you understand the analogy ... and we are discussing the One Publication and how the author used the analogy having drawn it from the Bible. Read the last section of that base note.

Originally Posted by Trapped

Same concept for the army. If you wouldn't entertain the concept of a One Orchestra based on 1 Cor. 14:7, why entertain the concept of a one trumpet being the One Publication based on 1 Cor. 14:8?

But here I need clarification. Do you want me to offer an explanation on what you perceive as two contradictory statements ... or do you prefer to abandon that in favor of debating the merits of the analogy.

Either way is okay by me.

thanks
Drake

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

Trapped, its promising that you understand the analogy ... and we are discussing the One Publication and how the author used the analogy having drawn it from the Bible. Read the last section of that base note.

But here I need clarification. Do you want me to offer an explanation on what you perceive as two contradictory statements ... or do you prefer to abandon that in favor of debating the merits of the analogy.

Either way is okay by me.

thanks
Drake

Drake,

Continue in your explanation. The foundation of the analogy drawn is unsupported, but I will "suspend belief" in order to hear your explanation through to the end. We can get into the analogy, or other issues that come up, later.

Thanks,

Trapped

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

Read the last section of that base note.

Drake, what is the base note?

[UntoHim]

By "base note" I think he means the opening post, which is is the entire document Publication Work In The Lord's Recovery

To Drake or any current LC member: If this document is only related to what the Living Stream has restricted themselves in publishing, why does it say that
"all the saints and all the churches everywhere should similarly be restricted"?
(emphasis mine)

The elders and saints everywhere should exercise the same caution that Brother Lee spoke of when he testified concerning the one publication in mainland China: all the saints and all the churches everywhere should similarly be restricted in one publication in the Lord’s recovery.

-

[awareness]

So LSM wants to be a monopoly ... every publisher wishes they were the only publisher in the world. That would then produce a captive market.

And that's what LSM has ... every publishers dream. Where's Anti-Trust laws when we need them?

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

To Drake or any current LC member: If this document is only related to what the Living Stream has restricted themselves in publishing, why does it say that
"all the saints and all the churches everywhere should similarly be restricted"?
(emphasis mine)

EXACTLY. This is why the entire document is peppered with phrases that dance around everything but never define anything or use specifics. This way they can use nebulous phrases like "one publication" and throw it in among different types of sentences to create the impression they want without saying it outright. Saying it outright would be admitting they are saying what they claim they are not saying, but are clearly, undeniably saying.

Again, the phrase "among us" is another telltale. "At times there may be writings among us that could be considered for publication as part of the one publication among us." Who on earth is "among us" if not the saints in the local churches? If this was about what LSM will publish, it would say "....as part of the one publication LSM PUTS OUT" not "...part of the one publication among us."

And "among us" is NOT the signatories (the blended co-workers), since later in that paragraph it says "those who wish to write in this way should bring their proposals TO the blended co-workers". So the "those" "among us" who wish to write should bring it TO the co-workers. "Among us" is the saints. This document is to restrict the saints.

In speaking of writings individual localities may produce, we get: "These are actually not part of the one publication among us in that they do not involve all the churches." Sorry charlie, the "one publication" is not about what LSM will publish. It is about restricting all the churches to only LSM's publications.

[UntoHim]

It now appears that , Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery, also referred to "The One Publication", has been taken down from all known Local Church/Living Stream websites, It is not known exactly when it was removed, but it has been listed as "File or directory not found" for at least a couple of weeks now. Since this is one of the most important, and even foundational, documents/declarations produced by the Blended Brothers, it is doubtful that this is merely a technical glitch.

Are the brothers there on La Palma Ave in Anaheim reconsidering the contents of "Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery"? Are they considering a revamped, edited version to re-release to the local churches? Will they produce a watered down, softened version, which will be a bit more palatable to the saints within the Local Church, and even be presented as a more scriptural declaration to the Christian public at large?
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[byHismercy]

How about the One Publication is simply not scriptural?

1Cor. 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when you come together, every one of you has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done to edifying.

How can everybody bring an interpretation of scripture if it is 'preinterpreted' by Lee? I know this sounds crazy to the LCers but the interpretation the body requires for edification is of Gods' word, not the word of Witness Lee. And not holy scriptures deciphered for all by king lee.

Drake and LSM are trying to feed Gods' children a lie. The army, Gods' army, is composed of those who hear the trumpet call which lies within the domain of the one publication? What a load of horse apples. According to Drake there are they in the Lords Recovery who heed the call and enter into the Lords Army while the rest of the believers are the civilians!?! I tell you, anyone teaching this is going to fall on their face before the Lord Christ someday and repent for this.

The more I learn about the system I escaped, the more I pity those inside.

To Lee and LSM I say this,..........1Cor. 14:36 WHAT? CAME THE WORD OF GOD OUT FROM YOU? OR CAME IT TO YOU ONLY?

byHismercy

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

So, to that end, besides the part you understand quoted above do you also understand how Brother Lee used the analogy of an trumpet to assemble an army with no uncertain sounding as the ministry (trumpet) with One Publication (as the uncertain component) and how that “sounding” is a call to the churches to assemble (as an army) for battle?

It doesn’t matter whether you agree with the analogy. In this conversation between us it doesn’t even matter if you accept the application of I Corinthians 14:8 in the analogy. All that matters is if you understand how the author understood and explained it.

Drake, we all full well understamd this misguided analogy.

If Lee wanted to effectively communicate with his "army" of certain saints inside all of the LC's, there are more effective means. Does the US military shut down all media outlets to communicate with their army? Of course not!

If Lee or the Blendeds wanted targeted communications to their "soldiers," there are all forms of communications which are far superior. Think special meetings, group emails, mass mailings, text messages, podcasts, video conferencing, etc.

Silencing other voices, on the contrary, are the tactics of totalitarian regimes. They demand control over all information. They become threatened by other voices, especially those which sound harmoniously and symphonically clear as compared to the oftentimes muddled and conflicted sounds from LSM.

Drake, you constantly claim that opposers to LSM take their words "out of context." Think about what Lee did to Apostle Paul's words here. The context was confusion in church gatherings resulting from tongues. Instead LSM has used this over the years to excommunicate their own people. How does that make sense?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Drake, you constantly claim that opposers to LSM take their words "out of context." Think about what Lee did to Apostle Paul's words here. The context was confusion in church gatherings resulting from tongues. Instead LSM has used this over the years to excommunicate their own people. How does that make sense?

Yes, I always associated 1Cor14 with "whenever you come together each one has" but this interpretation turns it on its head. Now it seems only "the apostle" has and everyone else needs to make sure they are being directed by him. I could understand if they were emphasizing to be directed by the Lord or the Holy Spirit, but why make some man the director?