Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery aka The One Publication

Koinonia · 12-10-2016, 11:51 PM

I would encourage everyone to listen to the following audio message: Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints given last week in Bellevue, WA by Bill Lawson.

This will give a very definite impression of where the LC is today. Recently, due to flagging LSM book sales, LC coworkers have appointed a group of brothers to travel around the US (and elsewhere) pushing LC members to purchase more and more ministry publications--with an explicit view to selling off large stocks of books that have been collecting dust in LSM warehouses for the last number of years.

In this presentation, Bill Lawson gives an overview of some of the recent LSM conferences and goes through manipulation after manipulation convincing the audience of their need to buy more LSM products. An accompanied PowerPoint presentation can be viewed here. The same presentation is being rolled out across the country by the other brothers chosen for this task (who are all named at the beginning of the Lawson recording).

least · 12-11-2016, 02:55 AM

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made,
ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Freedom · 12-11-2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koinonia

This will give a very definite impression of where the LC is today. Recently, due to flagging LSM book sales, LC coworkers have appointed a group of brothers to travel around the US (and elsewhere) pushing LC members to purchase more and more ministry publications--with an explicit view to selling off large stocks of books that have been collecting dust in LSM warehouses for the last number of years.

It's really sad to see how the LSM is attempting to disguise its marketing efforts. It's kind of ironic that they would claim there is a need to read more ministry publications, when that is all LC members do in the first place.

TLFisher · 12-11-2016, 07:18 PM

Constituting oneself with knowledge of an earthly ministry doesn't have a corresponding reality. Still when it comes to fellow Christians not meeting in the local churches, there's no capacity to receive non-LC Christians because they are not denominated by ministry publications.

TLFisher · 12-11-2016, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedom

It's kind of ironic that they would claim there is a need to read more ministry publications, when that is all LC members do in the first place.

I'm not so sure about that. In addition to the HWFMR, the publications seem to multiply. Even if you have capital to invest in the publications, who has time to read them all? They just collect dust. IMHO, money would be better spent on a genuine non-profit organization that has real community charity work.

Koinonia · 12-11-2016, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry

I'm not so sure about that. In addition to the HWFMR, the publications seem to multiply. Even if you have capital to invest in the publications, who has time to read them all? They just collect dust. IMHO, money would be better spent on a genuine non-profit organization that has real community charity work.

LSM is adept at repackaging the same things over and over again in various formats. But really the whole enterprise is running out of steam. A flyer has recently been circulated among LC members that is titled "Announcing the Completion of the Collected Works of Witness Lee" (scheduled: 2018). Here is a corresponding website. It is difficult for me to understand how people can get excited about this...

The LSM online bookstore is currently featuring a softbound copy of the Recovery Version of the Ezekiel (the upcoming Winter Training will begin the Crystallization-study of Ezekiel). Of course, the Recovery Version of Ezekiel has already been published in other formats for years. But diehards will buy multiple copies of the single volume, I'm sure. In recent years, LSM has also experimented with gimmicky things like pocket versions of various Life-studies ("Dwarsligger" format), in an apparent attempt at providing tired (and younger) members with new materials.

The dilemma for LSM is that they have no good ways to grow (or even maintain) book sales figures. They are mostly limited to a captive audience of current LC members. Once they really do put out the Collected Works of Witness Lee, they will have no new material--other than new editions of periodical publications like Holy Word for Morning Revival and Ministry Magazine. So, they will be stuck pushing members to buy copies of the same books to give away to other people, as well as coming up with newly packaged formats of the same existing publications. You can already see this happening.

Evangelical · 12-12-2016, 01:09 AM

They are not that well written either. For example, the publications are not well written, nor are they written well. Repeat the same things they tend to do. So as to repeat the things they tend to do the same. However, in my experience, many Christians cannot read well, so repeating things the same is not a problem, however we should practice more.

Freedom · 12-12-2016, 03:27 PM

It seems to me that the LSM made two major mistakes with regards to its publication business. Firstly, they limited their publications to Nee and Lee. By doing so, they have limited the scope of what can be published and since WL has been gone 20 years, there is nothing new to put out. Their product is limited by the aggregate of 2 past ministries, and all they can do now is find new ways to sell an old product. They have have assumed that there will be a perpetual demand for such publications, when it is likely that demand peaked long ago.

The other mistake is that the market for LSM publications has already been saturated with existing LSM publications. Take any longtime member and they have likely purchased a good number of LSM publications and a Life-Study set. Thus, it is unlikely that they want to repurchase the newer publications, even if it is the latest CWWL or whatever.

It was also my observation that the younger/newer members did not see the necessity to purchase LSM publications except on an as-needed basis. So the all the publications that LSM might have expected to sell in more recent times have likely gone largely unsold. I think the practice of buying every single book that came out was largely a thing of the past.

Koinonia · 12-12-2016, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedom

It was also my observation that the younger/newer members did not see the necessity to purchase LSM publications except on an as-needed basis. So the all the publications that LSM might have expected to sell in more recent times have likely gone largely unsold. I think the practice of buying every single book that came out was largely a thing of the past.

This is very true. A lot of younger members now mostly use ministrybooks.org or certain officially released "epublications." However, many also use unofficially released (free) "epublications," which has become a major issue with LC coworkers. I have personally heard certain of them severely excoriate groups of FTTA trainees for using these.

Ohio · 12-12-2016, 04:50 PM

I tried to listen to Bill Lawson, I really did, but became exhausted after 15 minutes. So sad, so stale, been thru this for years. "HWFMR ... morning after morning ... but it's just like licking bar-b-que sauce off the chicken."

Really? Hold on folks! Wasn't that steady diet of HWFMR, excerpts from the most recent training, supposed to "constitute the reader with the divine riches for the building up of the body of Christ consummating in the New Jerusalem?"

Apparently it didn't work. So, buy some more books! Look, we're running a special. Collected Works. Order now and save 45%.

Their market is definitely drying up. Go to a campus meeting -- no one even carries a Bible any more. Got a smart phone or a tablet? That's all you need.

I'm starting to think that LSM quarantined the GLA and Brazil simply because their regional sales projections were falling off. Regardless of what you may have been told, the LC's exist only to support LSM -- attend their trainings, send your kids to FTTA, and buy their books.

My long-time observation is that the anointing on those messages is drying up. I read messages 40 years ago, and they were indeed anointed with holy oil. Not so today. Those same messages are dry and tasteless. It's not a joke.

HERn · 12-13-2016, 04:05 AM

I listened to the whole thing. My take was that it was nervously given with a worry that not enough books are getting on the members' bookshelves. Not once did I hear the word "Bible". I heard the word "ministry" countless times and the word "word" several times. The speaker equates the ministry or publications of LSM with the word, and the only two names associated with their ministry are Nee and Lee, although the speaker did mention Paul once. They say they are rich, but really they are deceived in that their reading only the publications of LSM keeps them in darkness, poverty and separated from the body of Christ.

UntoHim · 12-23-2016, 07:27 AM

Former Local Church member, Philip van Dijk of the Netherlands, recently produced this polemic regarding the One Publication Document.

COMMENTS ON THE ONE PUBLICATION DOCUMENT PRODUCED BY THE BLENDED BROTHERS OF LIVING STREAM MINISTRY ON 30 JUNE 2005
By Philip van Dijk
21 December 2016

The blended brothers of Living Stream Ministry's fixation with using only one publication, only one evangelistic method, only one gold bar translation i.e. the Recovery Version of the Bible etc. as a testimony for others outside the Lord's Recovery had becoming increasingly clearer in my mind and in my spirit after reading through their document at www.lsm.org/onepublication:
The following words are found in Paul's and Sosthenes' first letter to the Corinthians:
'... Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are different ministries, but the same Lord. And there are different results, but the same God who produces all of them in everyone. To each person the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the benefit of all ...' (NET)
From the above mentioned passage these brothers revealed that there are different ministries (i.e. kinds of service) within the body of Christ and not that there is only one ministry as claimed within the above mentioned document.
The New Covenant Scriptures are completely silent concerning what believers publish in writing regarding their one faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
After rereading the document, I was immediately struck by the following texts, that had not struck me the first time when I had read it, as being indeed seriously questionable:
'... In a meeting with the brothers to whom he committed the responsibility for Living Stream Ministry, Brother Lee said, “My burden is for the recovery based on the interpretation of Brother Nee and me. I am the continuation of Brother Nee; I would like to have a continuation of me, and this needs a corporation ... The Living Stream corporation will continue this ministry” (from unpublished notes of a meeting of Living Stream, July 12, 1996). He placed the direction of this corporation for the continuation and publication of the ministry in the hands of a group of blended brothers, who labor to fulfill this charge before the Lord ...'
'... In every way, this practice of passing everything that we publish through a discerning check is best for all of us and best for the sounding of the one trumpet in the Lord’s recovery today …'

(1) What really bugged me after rereading the document was: Where is the Headship and the Lordship of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself in this specific recovery if it truly belongs to Him and Him alone?
(2) If the Lord's Recovery is, as our brother Witness Lee claims, nothing more than a burden based on an interpretation of Watchman Nee and himself, then is this recovery maybe nothing more than another institutional denomination, something this recovery of the Lord vehemently sought to depart from in the first place?
(3) Isn't an institutional denomination just another word for a corporation with a religious agenda and (a) human founder(s) other than Jesus Christ Himself?
(4) So, if all literature published by Living Stream Ministry is the sounding of the one and only trumpet for this present-day Lord's Recovery, are these 2 entities then not one and the same thing in reality?

There were more comments about the document that seemed more intriguing and insightful than I had previously thought:
'... He [Watchman Nee] asked me to help in the publication work. I [Witness Lee] did write some books, among which were a book on the genealogy of Christ, a translation of part of Pember's Earth's Earliest Ages, and some books on the kingdom of the heavens. I [Witness Lee] never published anything by myself ...'

Isn't Witness Lee only stating the obvious by claiming that he never published anything by himself? Watchman Nee had actually asked him to help with the publication work in the first place! Aren't these just basic circular statements?

'... I [Witness Lee] always mailed my manuscript to the Gospel Room, which was under Brother Nee and his helper. It was up to their discernment whether my manuscript should be published or not. I [Witness Lee] liked to have my writings checked as to whether there might be some inaccuracy in the truth. It is not a small matter to write a book that expounds the kingdom of the heavens. I liked my material to pass through their [Watchman Nee and brother Yu] checking. This helped and protected me. Brother Yu, the eye specialist, translated some of the mystical books, but he did not publish anything ...'

Here again, Witness Lee seems to be making more and more circular statements, for want of a better terminology. By mentioning that he (Witness Lee) then mailed manuscripts to Watchman Nee and brother Yu, because it was really Watchman Nee's publication, then claiming that he (Witness Lee) liked to have his contribution to the publication work checked because they (Watchman Nee and/or brother Yu) did not just publish anything etc. ...

'... We only had one publication. Everything was published through Brother Nee's Gospel Room because the publication is really the trumpeting. The sounding of our trumpet is not just in the verbal message but more in the publication. It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications ...'

Suddenly the publication work had become something far more than a publication work alone: It had become the sounding of a trumpet! Witness Lee even mentions that their (Watchman Nee's and Witness Lee's) trumpeting of the apostles' teaching had more prominence than their verbal speaking of the apostles' teaching.

But wait a minute, didn't Paul, Silvanus and Timothy mention in their first letter to the Thessalonians and didn't Paul and Sosthenes also mention in their first letter to the Corinthians
'... For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first ...' and '... in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed …' (NET)
that any trumpeting would be God's trumpeting when the Lord Jesus Christ returns for collecting His beautiful bride for Himself?

Regarding the previously cited sentence within the document:
'... In every way, this practice of passing everything that we publish through a discerning check is best for all of us and best for the sounding of the one trumpet in the Lord’s recovery today ...'

Are we having to make a choice between:
(1) the sounding of the trumpet as legislated by Living Stream Ministry and
(2) the sounding of the trumpet of God when the Lord returns for His beautiful bride?

Also, regarding the sounding of a trumpet mentioned in Paul's and Sosthenes' first letter to the Corinthians:
'... Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I help you unless I speak to you with a revelation or with knowledge or prophecy or teaching? It is similar for lifeless things that make a sound, like a flute or harp. Unless they make a distinction in the notes, how can what is played on the flute or harp be understood? If, for example, the trumpet makes an unclear sound, who will get ready for battle? It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air. There are probably many kinds of languages in the world, and none is without meaning. If then I do not know the meaning of a language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. It is the same with you. Since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, seek to abound in order to strengthen the church ...' (NET)

Yet, the context of the trumpet in the above mentioned passage seems to be conveying that:
(1) just as believers are to understand (with their mind and their spirit) when a revelation, knowledge a prophecy or a teaching is being spoken, so too
(2) a harp and a flute needs to produce a distinctive note or melody and
(3) a trumpet needs to make a clear sound so that an army understands when to prepare for war.

Therefore, the clear sounding of a trumpet in this context does not seem to convey that the saints are called to be restricted to one ministry or even to one publication for that matter!
Even the word teaching in the above mentioned context is being referred to as a teaching that is to be understood and not that the oneness of the teaching itself is implied in this instance.

'... According to my [Witness Lee] truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there. They may contain some biblical doctrines, but any point of life or light has been adopted from the publications of Living Stream Ministry. There is nearly no item of life or light that has not been covered by our publications [Isn't this just a presumption?]. Based upon this fact, what is the need for these brothers to put out their publications? [Are we not free in Christ to do so?] Because all the publications are mine [So, it's really about ownership then?], it is hard for me to speak such a word. But I am forced to tell the truth. By putting out your own publication, you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish. Where is the food, the life supply, and the real enlightenment in the other publications among us? [This is really going quite far, isn't it?] Be assured that there is definitely at least one major revelation in every Living Stream Ministry publication [Isn't this just a presumption?] .... If the Lord can gain ten thousand saints in the United States to go full-time with one kind of teaching, one kind of preaching, one kind of material, one kind of publication, one kind of way, and everything one kind, this will be our morale! The wise way is that we all take the full-time way and speak the same thing, think the same thing, present the same thing, and teach the same thing, having the same essence, appearance and expression. Then we will have the morale, the impact, to defeat the enemy. [Is this of the same essence regarding the oneness of the Spirit that Jesus prayed for before His crucifixion and which Paul appealed to in his letter to the Ephesians?] This is what the Lord needs! ...' [Witness Lee, Elders' Training, Book 8: The Life-pulse of the Lord's Present Move, pp. 161-164, 123-127]

What I have come to establish for myself is that in literally everything where one shared one's life in Christ, ministered His life with others etc. in the fellowship, one had to have it routinely filtered through the writings of Living Stream Ministry.
This filtering system had become the ultimate lockdown for me and eventually explained for me why my own previous attempts at discussing organic body life in Christ outside this filtering system were not being answered or were answered by answers such as '… go and read Witness Lee's Recovery Version footnotes, his Life Studies etc. about this …'
These dear fellow saints in the Lord's Recovery seem to have little individual conviction on what the Scriptures are revealing to themselves, but more specifically on the pertinent issues that I had questions on. This probably explains their regular reliance on the writings of Living Stream Ministry for having it revealed to them instead.

Philip van Dijk
Skype: philipvdijk
LinkedIn: https://nl.linkedin.com/in/philipvdijk

aron · 12-23-2016, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Living Stream Ministry

'... In a meeting with the brothers to whom he committed the responsibility for Living Stream Ministry, Brother Lee said, “My burden is for the recovery based on the interpretation of Brother Nee and me. I am the continuation of Brother Nee; I would like to have a continuation of me, and this needs a corporation ... The Living Stream corporation will continue this ministry"

The living stream ministry is a corporation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip van Dijk

If the Lord's Recovery is, as our brother Witness Lee claims, nothing more than a burden based on an interpretation of Watchman Nee and himself, then is this recovery maybe nothing more than another institutional denomination, something this recovery of the Lord vehemently sought to depart from in the first place?

The only way the interpretation equals the basis of the 'recovered' assembly is if the interpreter is given cosmic, oracular status. The interpreter is God's sole designated mouthpiece. The writing of the New Testament conveys none of this. In fact it repeatedly conveys the opposite.

And when God's so-called oracle is given untouchable status, the basis of the interpretation as being culturally-mediated seems quite clear.

Cal · 12-23-2016, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron

And when God's so-called oracle is given untouchable status, the basis of the interpretation as being culturally-mediated seems quite clear.

One thing that always strikes me about the people in the LCM is that the way they use the term "Lord's Recovery" in an equivocating manner. Sometimes, apparently, without even realizing it.

Van Dijk brushes up against this insight but never quite gets it.

On the one hand Lee talked about the "Recovery" as if it is God's pure unique "move." On the other hand he talked about it as something he (Lee) should be able to control like a captain controls a ship. Certainly there is no precedent in the NT age for anyone to be given such power. Even Paul didn't have it.

It's one thing for a leader to presume to direct his church or ministry, it's a completely different thing for him to presume to direct God's very move. God's move is God's alone. He alone leads it and is entitled to change its direction, to appoint other representatives, to bless ministries, to raise up workers from stones, to inspire new insights--all without our counsel or even notifying us.

So for Lee or anyone else to say the "Recovery" should do this or the "Recovery" should do that is simply to verify that the "Recovery" is not God's move but rather simply an organization of human beings.

Van Dijk like many LCMers, despite his insights, still seems confused about this.

OBW · 12-23-2016, 10:01 AM

One of the biggest flaws in the logic and teaching of Lee and the LRC is that there is something called God's flow that is smaller than all that Christians are doing on the earth through the leading and power of the Holy Spirit.

God's flow includes every speaking of the gospel, from fire-and-brimstone preachers to simple homilies in any of the liturgical traditions. It includes the righteous living of His followers as they demonstrate something worthy of note in the world, even when there is nothing spoken. If Christians are in obedience, then God is flowing. In every thing that they do. From washing the dishes to going to the far reaches of the earth to evangelize those who have never heard of Jesus.

ZNPaaneah · 12-23-2016, 12:13 PM

It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there. They may contain some biblical doctrines, but any point of life or light has been adopted from the publications of Living Stream Ministry. There is nearly no item of life or light that has not been covered by our publications. Based upon this fact, what is the need for these brothers to put out their publications? Because all the publications are mine, it is hard for me to speak such a word. But I am forced to tell the truth. By putting out your own publication, you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish. Where is the food, the life supply, and the real enlightenment in the other publications among us? Be assured that there is definitely at least one major revelation in every Living Stream Ministry publication. (ELDERS' TRAINING, BOOK 08: THE LIFE-PULSE OF THE LORD'S PRESENT MOVE, Chapter 11, Section 2, Witness Lee)

I am glad that Witness Lee gave us a truthful observation, it does reveal what he felt. It is certainly judgmental "no new light or life supply there". I kind of wonder who forced him to tell the truth, because if we knew how to do that we might have found out some other things as well.

When I read his word "by putting out your own publication you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish" I am reminded of the Lord's word "judge not lest ye be judged, for with what judgement you judge you shall be judged.

Cal · 12-23-2016, 03:42 PM

To me the Lee quote that ZNP just provided can be summed up simply as: "This is not God's thing, it's my thing."

OBW · 12-26-2016, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there. They may contain some biblical doctrines, but any point of life or light has been adopted from the publications of Living Stream Ministry.

And there is one of the biggest problems with the LRC. They have this thing they call light and life that trumps actual teachings in the Bible. Doesn't matter if the Bible teaches it. If they don't get a good feeling from it, it's out.

Thanks for finding that quote.

aron · 12-24-2016, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

Whether God's move was ever embodied in the "Recovery" prior to Nee and Lee is really not the point. The point is once Nee and Lee presumed to be it and to lead it they reduced whatever it was to simply their own movement.

Whatever basis God had to function on earth before that point, now was supposedly reduced to Nee's interpretation of God's move. Anything else was by definition removed. The One Trumpet edict simply codified what had been understood in the LC, all along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBW

One of the biggest flaws in the logic and teaching of Lee and the LRC is that there is something called God's flow that is smaller than all that Christians are doing on the earth through the leading and power of the Holy Spirit.

God's flow includes every speaking of the gospel, from fire-and-brimstone preachers to simple homilies in any of the liturgical traditions. It includes the righteous living of His followers as they demonstrate something worthy of note in the world, even when there is nothing spoken. If Christians are in obedience, then God is flowing. .

There was a sister in the late '60s named Kathryn Kuhlman, and I saw a gathering of young people once at Calvary Chapel where she was in the meeting; all the freaks and hippies with long hair and beards and beads, ending every third sentence with "man", and the conservative Christian establishment was averse. Who are these people?

But Kuhlman's message was simple, two words: "Welcome home". What power. Don't try to tell me the Lord's spirit wasn't there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCvH9NOTSzw

Of course there were failures abounding. Many stumbled and fell. But the core of the gospel message is there: that we are all deformed, fallen; that Jesus is the way - repent, believe and be saved. That core message was there, and by God's mercy thousands came in, and Lee in Anaheim benefitted enormously from it all. And then he presumed to channel it exclusively, and his befogged disciples created a corporation presuming to exclusively market God's revelation on earth. One Trumpet was merely the formalization, the fossilization, of a long-established LC understanding. In Lee's words, a consummation.

least · 12-23-2016, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

It's one thing for a leader to presume to direct his church or ministry, it's a completely different thing for him to presume to direct God's very move. God's move is God's alone. He alone leads it and is entitled to change its direction, to appoint other representatives, to bless ministries, to raise up workers from stones, to inspire new insights--all without our counsel or even notifying us.

Yup.
it's a completely different thing for him to presume to direct God's very move. God's move is God's alone.

aron · 12-23-2016, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by least

(2) If the Lord's Recovery is, as our brother Witness Lee claims, nothing more than a burden based on an interpretation of Watchman Nee and himself, then is this recovery maybe nothing more than another institutional denomination, something this recovery of the Lord vehemently sought to depart from in the first place?

If the Lord's Recovery is a burden based on an interpretation, what happens when I come along with another interpretation, like the ekklesia was so local that it was a meeting? There was not 'non-gathered' ekklesia? It could be dispersed? There could be ekklesia in homes, boats, on mountaintops, several or even hundreds simultaneously occurring in one single large metropolitan city? What happens if I or anyone else for that matter has a revelation from God's word?

But it wasn't the Revelation of Nee. So it doesn't count. All of which shows that indeed the Lord's Recovery is based on one man's interpretation. One man's interpretation, another man's marketing of that interpretation, and a corporation claiming sovereignty over the marketing of that interpretation.

ZNPaaneah · 12-23-2016, 06:15 PM

When Paul writes about the gifts of the members of the Body, he begins by speaking of “dumb idols.” … In verse 2 Paul reminds them that when they were of the nations, of the Gentiles, they were “led away to dumb idols.” Here Paul does not say they were led away to sins, lusts, or the world; he says that they were led away to dumb idols, in whatever way they were led. No matter by what way they were led, they were led to dumb idols. Paul's use of the adjective “dumb” implies that both the idols and those who worship them are dumb, unable to speak…. But after coming to believe in Christ, they are now worshippers of the living God.

It is by speaking that we prove that we are living. Our God is living. The Bible reveals that our living God is the speaking God. Throughout the centuries, especially in this New Testament age, God has been speaking…. Because the God whom we worship is the living and speaking God, we also speak and thereby prove that we are the living members of the Body of Christ. (Witness Lee, Life-Study of 1 Corinthians, Chapter 57, Section 2)

This doctrine of "one trumpet" is merely the leading the saints away to dumb idols.

Cal · 12-24-2016, 06:12 AM

The fact that Lee tried to lead the "Recovery" proves the "Recovery" was just his movement. The "Recovery" is not God's move. If it was, no one would be trying to lead it but God.

Note the history of the "Recovery" as told by Lee: God raised up people in his good time to "recover" certain truths. But in all instances prior to Nee and Lee, these people did not consider themselves in some special move. They were simply following the Lord. But as Nee came along and especially with Lee, they began to presume to represent God's move and even to have some say in its direction. The "Recovery" thus became self-conscious and self-directing. Put simply, men presumed to take control of it.

Whether God's move was ever embodied in the "Recovery" prior to Nee and Lee is really not the point. The point is once Nee and Lee presumed to be it and to lead it they reduced whatever it was to simply their own movement. And that's what the "Recovery" is today, nothing but a movement of human beings. Do they have God's presence at some level? Sure, as do thousands of other collections of Christians.

God continues to move, of course, as he always has, completely unobligated to play by Lee's rules or anyone else's. He who sits in the heavens shall laugh, at me, you, Lee, and anyone else who gets too big for their britches.

Trapped · 08-21-2018, 08:43 PM

I didn't see a thread anywhere dedicated to the "One Publication" letter put out by LSM. The letter is reproduced below, but can be found online here: https://www.lsm.org/onepublication/

PUBLICATION WORK IN THE LORD’S RECOVERY

Through Brother Lee’s fellowship over the years, we have long realized that there should be one publication among us. The one publication is not only a testimony of our oneness in the Body but also a safeguard for the unique ministry in the Lord’s recovery. Without one publication, there is no way to preserve the integrity of the Lord’s ministry among us, which is crucial to the practical oneness among the local churches. Brother Lee gave this word of testimony on this crucial matter in the Lord’s recovery:

When we were on mainland China, only Brother Nee had a publication, and the Gospel Room belonged solely and uniquely to him. He asked me to help in the publication work. I did write some books, among which were a book on the genealogy of Christ, a translation of part of Pember’s Earth’s Earliest Ages, and some books on the kingdom of the heavens. I never published anything by myself. I always mailed my manuscript to the Gospel Room, which was under Brother Nee and his helper. It was up to their discernment whether my manuscript should be published or not. I liked to have my writings checked as to whether there might be some inaccuracy in the truth. It is not a small matter to write a book that expounds the kingdom of the heavens. I liked my material to pass through their checking. This helped and protected me. Brother Yu, the eye specialist, translated some of the mystical books, but he did not publish anything. We only had one publication. Everything was published through Brother Nee’s Gospel Room because the publication is really the trumpeting. The sounding of our trumpet is not just in the verbal message but more in the publication. (Elders’ Training, Book 8: The Life-pulse of the Lord’s Present Move, pp. 161-162. See the larger context of this quotation in the attached ministry portions.)

According to the practice established by Brother Nee in China, the one publication has always been trumpeted by one practical publication endeavor—in Brother Nee’s day by his Gospel Room, during Brother Lee’s years after he left mainland China by Taiwan Gospel Book Room, and during his years in the United States by Living Stream Ministry. Today we must be diligent to continue this practice of the trumpeting in the one publication in a practical way through the publication service of Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room. Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room publish both the past ministry that was delivered to us by Brother Nee and Brother Lee and the ongoing, up-to-date speaking that comes out of the fellowship of the blended co-workers and is based on the ministry materials of Brother Lee and Brother Nee. These are the materials that have been used regularly in the church life in the Lord’s recovery, and these constitute the one publication among us today.

When Brother Lee was among us, he took the lead in both the ministry and the publication work. As he released the Lord’s ministry to the churches, he directed Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room to publish that ministry throughout the churches so that the saints everywhere could be kept in the up-to-date fellowship of the one ministry. Because the ministry was released originally in either English or Chinese, he formed Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room as publication offices that would carry out the practical service of publishing the ministry for the churches. Today, by the Lord’s mercy, the ministry continues. Now it is carried out by fellow slaves who serve in a blended way according to Brother Lee’s realization and fellowship shortly before he went to be with the Lord. He called this “the Lord’s sovereign provision for His Body, and the up-to-date way to fulfill His ministry” (A Letter of Fellowship with Thanks, March 24, 1997). It is important to note that Brother Lee spoke directly about the continuation of the ministry among us. He felt that after his departure the ministry should be carried out by a group of co-workers who are blended, just as his own service in the ministry was under his coordination with the co-workers. Further, the need to publish the ongoing ministry still exists, and to this end Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room, a blended service overseen by a group of blended brothers who serve in coordination with the blended co-workers, continue to publish the Lord’s speaking among us in all the seven annual “feasts” and the weekly ministry meetings. In a meeting with the brothers to whom he committed the responsibility for Living Stream Ministry, Brother Lee said, “My burden is for the recovery based on the interpretation of Brother Nee and me. I am the continuation of Brother Nee; I would like to have a continuation of me, and this needs a corporation...The Living Stream corporation will continue this ministry” (from unpublished notes of a meeting of Living Stream, July 12, 1996). He placed the direction of this corporation for the continuation and publication of the ministry in the hands of a group of blended brothers, who labor to fulfill this charge before the Lord.

What Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room do, as set forth in the Living Stream’s Articles of Incorporation, is “to promote the enlightenment and revelation regarding the Bible as interpreted by the teachings of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee.” It was Brother Lee’s express wish that Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room would be the sole publishers of his and Brother Nee’s ministry. According to this wish and arrangement, Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room should be responsible for the publication of the ministry materials of these two brothers, and any use of Brother Lee’s materials or of The Collected Works of Watchman Nee should be done in coordination with Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room, and only with their express permission, according to their guidelines, and in proper fellowship with them. This includes the translation of these materials into any language as well as any republication in any form or through any medium. Further, Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room also publish the ongoing ministry in the Lord’s recovery as the extension of the ministry of these two brothers. The ongoing ministry is carried out according to the fellowship of blended co-workers and is based on outlines compiled from Brother Lee’s and Brother Nee’s ministry materials. As has been apparent to all the saints everywhere, this labor produces the same ministry with the same taste as has been enjoyed in all the churches since Brother Nee’s time. The up-to-date speaking among us is published primarily in the outlines of the messages for the seven “feasts,” The Holy Word for Morning Revival, and The Ministry magazine by Living Stream Ministry and in corresponding publications by Taiwan Gospel Book Room. In addition, Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room publish works that support the Lord’s ministry. There are a number of publications which Brother Lee initiated that fall into this category, most notably the journal Affirmation & Critique, which presents the truths of the Lord’s recovery to an academically-trained audience as we have received them from Brother Lee. As much as possible, Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room avoid venturing into other kinds of publications, but according to Brother Lee’s own example, occasionally there may be publications of these other kinds which Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room feel to publish either under their own names or under special imprints that serve particular publication needs. For example, Living Stream Books (as opposed to Living Stream Ministry) publishes God’s Plan of Redemption by Mary E. McDonough, and A&C Press publishes a translation from French of a scholarly study on deification in the early church.

At times there may be writings among us that could be considered for publication as part of the one publication among us. As Brother Lee points out in the quote from Elders’ Training, Book above, these proposals should be “checked as to whether there might be some inaccuracy in the truth.” Discernment must always be exercised when expressing matters related to the divine truth, the divine life, and the gospel. The exercise of this sort of discernment not only protects the teaching among us and the spiritual supply to the saints; it also helps and protects those who endeavor to write. Hence, it is proper that those who endeavor to write in this way bring their work to those who take the lead in the ministry and those who take the lead in the publication work, and those who take the lead should exercise the discernment as to whether or not such proposals should be published as part of the one publication. This was the practice when Brother Nee took the lead in the ministry and in the publication work in China, and it was our practice when Brother Lee took the lead in the ministry and in the publication work among us. It should be our continued practice today. Thus, those who wish to write in this way should bring their proposals to the blended co-workers as well as to Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room and have their proposals checked to see whether they should be published or not. In every way, this practice of passing everything that we publish through a discerning check is best for all of us and best for the sounding of the one trumpet in the Lord’s recovery today.

We all must realize that the one publication in the Lord’s recovery is quite a serious matter. Anyone who participates in it must genuinely have the portion from the Lord to do so, and this portion should be easily recognizable to the churches and affirmed by those who take the lead in the ministry and those who take the lead in the publication work. No one can take up this portion in the Lord’s recovery on his own. While we all have a basic right to publish, in the Lord’s recovery we are governed by the higher vision of serving under the cross in a blended way in the Body, especially when it affects the churches and the dear saints everywhere. Since Brother Nee’s day we in the Lord’s recovery have been “restricted in one publication” (Elders’ Training, p. 161), and this restriction has resulted in one testimony among us. For decades we all have been nurtured and richly supplied by the one publication. The benefits of being restricted in one publication can hardly be denied.

But being restricted in the one publication does not mean, and has never meant, that individual churches are not free to produce and distribute materials for their local needs. We have always had publications like this among us, and there have generally been no problems related to these. Songbooks, local tracts, church meeting outlines, testimonies, etc., have long been produced among us without controversy. These are actually not part of the one publication among us in that they do not involve all the churches. These are publications that address local needs. Problems can be caused, however, when these local and non-permanent publications gain larger geographical status. Further, it is particularly problematic when new technologies, such as the Internet, are used to distribute these local publications. The elders should take special care to assure that what is produced for their local churches remains a local matter. Otherwise, damage may result. Although technologies now exist that permit the easy dissemination of material, we should not use these technologies at the risk of causing confusion among the saints and of damaging the one accord among the churches. The elders and saints everywhere should exercise the same caution that Brother Lee spoke of when he testified concerning the one publication in mainland China: all the saints and all the churches everywhere should similarly be restricted in one publication in the Lord’s recovery.

Technology today allows almost any individual to publish whatever he or she desires, and it should not be the intention of the responsible ones in the Lord’s recovery to suppress the rights of individuals to express themselves (unless, of course, such expressions are sinful, heretical, or divisive). Some saints have a desire to write church histories, to produce children’s materials, to record music, and even to give and publish messages. Without much effort these can be reproduced in a variety of media and distributed widely, especially on the Internet and on CDs and DVDs. But the fact that these publications can be produced and distributed should not give them any more credence among the churches than anything else that can be published today, secular or religious. These are simply other publications that our brothers and sisters may or may not be interested in. They are not part of the one publication in the Lord’s recovery, and they are not necessarily beneficial to the spiritual good of the saints among us. The churches, through the elders, should be educated to understand this, and the saints and the churches need to discern the value of these publications for themselves. As shepherds of the flock of God (1 Pet. 5:2), the elders everywhere should have a proper care for the churches with regard to publications, and they should guard the flock from things that could cause damage (Acts 20:28-29). As long as the churches do not become platforms for the dissemination of these publications, these publications should not become matters of issue among us.

Finally, all the churches and saints everywhere must understand that the matter of one publication is not a matter of the common faith but something related to the one ministry in the Lord’s recovery. The ministry is the sounding of the trumpet among us in the Lord’s recovery, and there should be no uncertain sounding of this trumpet, as Brother Lee has mentioned on a number of occasions. However, the one publication should not become the basis of our accepting or rejecting any persons in the communion of faith or in the fellowship of the churches; it should not be insisted on as an item of the faith. If any are not inclined to be restricted in one publication, these ones are still our brothers; they are still in the genuine local churches. We would like to conclude with these words from our Brother Lee and wish to recommend that the full context of his words be read from Elders’ Training, Book 7: One Accord for the Lord’s Move, pp. 74-75:

Whether or not a certain church takes the ministry does not decide whether that church is a genuine local church. The title of this message does not say “no uncertain sounding of the trumpet in the Lord’s recovery” but “in the Lord’s ministry.” I am not talking about something in the Lord’s recovery, but I am talking about the ministry...

I have to be faithful to the Lord, faithful to so many of you who have been very much affected by this ministry, and faithful to myself. For this reason, this ministry cannot allow anyone to pretend to be in it and yet still say something different. This does not mean that I ask you to stay away from your local church or that your local church is no longer a local church. What I am fellowshipping about is the impact of the ministry for the fighting of the Lord’s interest in His recovery.

The blended co-workers in the Lord’s recovery

June 30, 2005

Ministry Portions
BEING RESTRICTED IN ONE PUBLICATION

One thing that has caused the Lord’s recovery trouble is the fact that we have different publications. If we mean business for the Lord’s recovery, we must avoid any kind of involvement in problems. When we were on mainland China, only Brother Nee had a publication, and the Gospel Room belonged solely and uniquely to him. He asked me to help in the publication work. I did write some books, among which were a book on the genealogy of Christ, a translation of part of Pember’s Earth’s Earliest Ages, and some books on the kingdom of the heavens. I never published anything by myself. I always mailed my manuscript to the Gospel Room, which was under Brother Nee and his helper. It was up to their discernment whether my manuscript should be published or not. I liked to have my writings checked as to whether there might be some inaccuracy in the truth. It is not a small matter to write a book that expounds the kingdom of the heavens. I liked my material to pass through their checking. This helped and protected me. Brother Yu, the eye specialist, translated some of the mystical books, but he did not publish anything. We only had one publication. Everything was published through Brother Nee’s Gospel Room because the publication is really the trumpeting. The sounding of our trumpet is not just in the verbal message but more in the publication.

I hate to see that some of the brothers would try to publish something by copying my points mixed with their “spices” and their “color.” Why do they need to put out some points from my writings in this way? Brother Nee taught us concerning the kingdom of the heavens. I received the basic knowledge from his teaching, but he never expounded on it very much; he simply gave a sketch. It was I who from 1936 began to expound upon the sketch given to me by Brother Nee. After I published my exposition, Brother Nee admired it and told me personally that it was very good.

I hope that some of you brothers would do much development and expounding of all the messages I give. Do not merely speak some points, adding your own “color” and “spices.” This changes the taste. It damages my messages. You must receive the ability to expound all these things. I am not narrow. I would like to see that all of you will be great servants used by God. How wonderful that would be. But I do not like to see that some would merely repeat what I have said, pretending that it is their work with their spices and color.

It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there. They may contain some biblical doctrines, but any point of life or light has been adopted from the publications of Living Stream Ministry. There is nearly no item of life or light that has not been covered by our publications. Based upon this fact, what is the need for these brothers to put out their publications? Because all the publications are mine, it is hard for me to speak such a word. But I am forced to tell the truth. By putting out your own publication, you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish. Where is the food, the life supply, and the real enlightenment in the other publications among us? Be assured that there is definitely at least one major revelation in every Living Stream Ministry publication.

I was burdened to publish the Life-study Messages to stress the matter of life because this matter has been neglected, missed, and even lost to the uttermost in today’s Christianity. In most of the commentaries and expositions there is not much of life. Even the term Life-study is a new term. I have used this term for thirty-two years. In 1954 and 1955 I finished a Life-study on the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation in Taipei.

This does not mean that I am so capable or so knowledgeable. It all depends upon whether or not our sovereign Lord has given you this portion. Even though I wrote some books in mainland China, I never dared to publish anything by myself. I do not like to have another sounding. Our sounding must be one, so we must be restricted in one publication. My intention in calling a writers’ conference was to encourage you to write something, but not in the way that came out. This fellowship may preserve and protect us from doing things lawlessly.

If some localities would have gone the proper way of the recovery, using all the materials of the ministry, their number would have increased greatly. Some are wasting their time by writing and publishing their own material. This is not their portion. I would like to see that many brothers had this portion with the riches of truth. This would be marvelous and wonderful, but this is our problem today. I advise all of you to take care of this matter. You have to swallow up the dissension. Do not let dissension eat you up.

I hope this fellowship will render some help to all the churches. Take these principles, pray before the Lord, and consider the real situation in your locality. Then you can make some adjustment of the eldership. (Elders’ Training, Book 8: The Life-pulse of the Lord’s Present Move, pp. 161-164, Witness Lee)

FULFILLING THE LORD’S COMMISSION TO HIS RECOVERY

The Lord’s commission is His recovery, and His recovery today is to recover Christ as life, to recover the church as our living, to recover the enjoyment of Christ as everything to us, and to recover all the significances of the church life for the purpose of not only preaching the gospel but also spreading the truth. I believe that this is the unique reason that He has given us nearly all the truths in today’s Christianity. He has given us His truths for us to spread them not only to Christians but even to the unbelievers. The entire globe is under darkness. Every human being on the earth needs to hear the truth, but our spreading of the precious truths we have received has been strongly limited. There have been many strong testimonies concerning people getting attracted and caught by the notes in the Recovery Version, but who has the burden to go out and spread these truths?

Some brothers who are with us do not use these truths when they teach and preach. They teach and preach what they feel is good, yet they do not realize how poor their messages are. Some brothers among us continually put out some publications. I was honest to tell them that there was no light and nothing new in what they put out. The points in our publications are full of life and light, but these brothers would not present them as they are. I could not understand why they have to change the messages we publish to present something in their own style and in their own way. There are no new points of life or light in what they publish. Any life or light in their material is altogether adopted from this ministry. I have been observing this situation among us for years. I would like to see whether some younger brothers among us would be raised up by the Lord to speak something. If I could see this, I would praise the Lord. On the other hand, I have seen some who like to build up something around themselves.

The Lord has commissioned us with His recovery, and He has surely opened up the New Testament to reveal many dear and precious truths to us. What the Lord needs is for thousands of His dear saints who love Him, who live to Him, and who know nothing but His recovery to take one way. Regardless of whether the saints are from Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, England, Thailand, Indonesia, or the United States, we all bear the same burden, take the same way, and spread the same truths. We dispense the truths embodied in the “gold bar,” the Recovery Version. We have no other merchandise! If we would be like this, the entire earth will be taken!

It breaks my heart to see some practicing to have another ministry, using the material of the ministry. We all have to pray, “Lord, rescue me from my ambition to be somebody in the recovery.” We should only know the truths of God’s New Testament economy. We only use one way by one accord, prayer, the Spirit, and the Word. This is what I believe the Lord is after, and this is what we all expect in the depths of our being. Everyone will feel happy about this.

When we go out, we do not go in a dissenting or ambitious way. If you go out with your ambition to build yourself up and I go out with my ambition to build my ministry up, we are finished. The Lord has to go to others. We all need to go out in one way like an army. Then we will have the morale and the impact.

We do not need to do that much. We just need to go out with a pure heart, without anything to ourselves but all things to Him. Just go out with all the truths and the Recovery Version to read to people. I assure you that you will catch someone every week. You do not need to preach your teaching or your kind of doctrine with your terminology. We have to see what the Lord’s recovery is. The Lord’s recovery has been commissioned with a big enterprise to spread the Lord’s truths. He has given us the truths which we are holding. But we need the faithful, pure-hearted ones, who do not have any intention to live to themselves but to Him, to go out to spread these “gold bar” truths. There is no need for you to preach or teach in your way. Open up the Recovery Version and read some of the notes with the hungry ones.

Actually, though, I do not care that much for the increase. I care for the spreading of the truths so that they can get into the needy hearts. If we spread these truths, we will become the faithful servants to serve food to the Lord’s people at the appointed time (Matt. 24:45). Then we will fulfill the commission of the Lord’s recovery. This is where my heart is. I will die to this. I told the brothers in the Far East I will not stop until my entire being is exhausted by this ministry. I hope you all will say the same thing.

If the Lord can gain ten thousand saints in the United States to go full-time with one kind of teaching, one kind of preaching, one kind of material, one kind of publication, one kind of way, and everything one kind, this will be our morale! The wise way is that we all take the full-time way and speak the same thing, think the same thing, present the same thing, and teach the same thing, having the same essence, appearance and expression. Then we will have the morale, the impact, to defeat the enemy. This is what the Lord needs! (Elders’ Training, Book 8: The Life-pulse of the Lord’s Present Move, pp. 123-127, Witness Lee)

THE MINISTRY AND THE CHURCHES

Whether or not a certain church takes the ministry does not decide whether that church is a genuine local church. The title of this message does not say “no uncertain sounding of the trumpet in the Lord’s recovery” but “in the Lord’s ministry.” I am not talking about something in the Lord’s recovery, but I am talking about the ministry. The citizens of the United States may say many things to criticize the government and the commander in chief of the Armed Forces. But when you get into the army and become a soldier, you lose your right to say anything. It is possible to argue, debate, and even fight in the Senate, but even when the senators get in the army and become soldiers, they have to be quiet. There is no uncertain sounding in the army. The ministry is not like the Senate. The ministry is not a Congress for anyone to come here to express his opinion. The ministry has no capacity for that. The ministry is altogether filled up with a fighting spirit. I do not control any church. All the saints who have left the denominations, the divisive sects, and stand on the proper ground are a local church in their locality. They can express their opinions, but they may have nothing to do with this ministry.

Paul told us that all who were in Asia turned away from him (2 Tim. 1:15). The believers in Asia who had formerly received the apostle’s ministry now forsook him. They did not lose their status as local churches due to the fact that they gave up Paul’s ministry, but in fighting the battle, Paul’s ministry could not depend upon them. For Paul’s ministry they could not be counted on. To say that the ministry cannot depend upon a certain church does not mean that that church has been cut off from being a local church. It is still a local church, but we must realize that the ministry is a fighting unit. In this fighting unit there is no capacity and no time for your opinion.

I mean business for the Lord’s interest. I have sacrificed my entire life for the Lord’s ministry. I gave up everything to take the way of the Lord’s recovery. Now I must be faithful to myself. Furthermore, through my ministry on this globe, thousands of saints have come into the recovery, so I must be faithful to them. Many of the saints have given up high degrees to follow the Lord in His recovery, yet it seems what they are in is tending to be disappointing. This burdens me. Some of the saints became what they are in the Lord one hundred percent due to my ministry, and I do not want my ministry to waste their time. I have to do something to insure their investment of their whole being into the Lord’s recovery. They have given up their future in the world, but they cannot have much encouragement in the Lord’s recovery. I have to be faithful to the Lord, faithful to so many of you who have been very much affected by this ministry, and faithful to myself. For this reason, this ministry cannot allow anyone to pretend to be in it and yet still say something different. This does not mean that I ask you to stay away from your local church or that your local church is no longer a local church. What I am fellowshipping about is the impact of the ministry for the fighting of the Lord’s interest in His recovery.

Whatever I would say concerning the home gatherings, the full-timers, the truth lessons, and the spreading of the gospel is not for anyone who does not feel good about my ministry, who is dissenting to my ministry, who is pretending to be here under the ministry yet actually is not. I still love all the dear saints who may fall into this category and still count them as brothers in Christ, but we need to have an army full of impact, and this army has no capacity and no time for anyone to express any kind of opinion. We are fighting a battle. The army began the fighting already in Taiwan. Now we want to see this army increasing to fight the battle not only in the United States but also in Canada, in Central America, in South America, in Europe, in Africa, in Australasia, and in the entire continent of Asia. This is what I want to see. I am not talking about the churches, I am talking about the ministry. The ministry is one thing, and the churches are another thing. These two things can be differentiated in the Epistles written by Paul. Paul’s ministry is one category, and the churches are another category. Paul never tried to force all the churches to follow him in his ministry, but Paul surely had a ministry for the churches. (Elders’ Training, Book 7: One Accord for the Lord’s Move, pp. 74-76, Witness Lee)

Trapped · 08-21-2018, 08:59 PM

I realize the shortcomings of this type of forum as the vehicle for discussion of a letter of this length and concerning what I know is a topic that has caused a lot of problems, so I am not sure how this will go. I'd love to go line by line, or paragraph by paragraph, but it is difficult in a forum format.

What I really want is a sober-minded, non-inflammatory, logical, rational look at the document. I personally see many flaws and double-speak, but I don't want to get into it in an irrational way.....I am looking for more of a "detached" analysis, if you will. A level-headed discussion about it without getting into high emotions. Please note that I have no intention to dismiss the many, many hurts, pains, sufferings, or lives that have found themselves thrown off a moving vehicle and skidding along a gravel highway at 100 mph because of this letter and the ramifications thereof. I have just personally found that if I speak to elders or co-workers in a more analytical way about things like this, they are much more willing to listen and even agree. An emotional response is more than valid given what has occurred in the local churches, I fully recognize that, but within the restrictions of what I am trying to accomplish with this thread, a more detached approach would help.

I don't even know where to start but wanted to get this much written for now so I would be on the hook to keep going.

Drake · 08-22-2018, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

What I really want is a sober-minded, non-inflammatory, logical, rational look at the document. I personally see many flaws and double-speak, but I don't want to get into it in an irrational way.....I am looking for more of a "detached" analysis, if you will. A level-headed discussion about it without getting into high emotions............I don't even know where to start but wanted to get this much written for now so I would be on the hook to keep going.

Commendable Trapped, but there are few threads able to maintain the standard of sober minded, logical, rational without high emotions in this forum. Nevertheless, it is a worthy discussion and your posting the whole document here as a reference may help.

I’m not sure going paragraph by paragraph is the best way because there are clarifications near the back that explain the what is near the front.

Thanks
Drake

Trapped · 08-21-2018, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

PUBLICATION WORK IN THE LORD’S RECOVERY

Through Brother Lee’s fellowship over the years, we have long realized that there should be one publication among us. The one publication is not only a testimony of our oneness in the Body but also a safeguard for the unique ministry in the Lord’s recovery. Without one publication, there is no way to preserve the integrity of the Lord’s ministry among us, which is crucial to the practical oneness among the local churches. Brother Lee gave this word of testimony on this crucial matter in the Lord’s recovery:

I guess I can start out with the first paragraph.

1. My first issue is the title. If LSM truly considers the "recovery" work of the Lord to have broadly started with Martin Luther as they say (see 3rd bullet point here: https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/recovery/), and claim that "the Lord's Recovery" is not a name used to refer to the churches under Nee/Lee, then the title right off is ludicrous.

2. "...there should be one publication among us." To say "among us" is instantly divisive in the Body of Christ, as Nee himself stated. To paraphrase, "if we use the term "we" or "us" to refer to anything other than all the believers in a city, then we are schismatic."

3. "testimony of our oneness in the Body" - I didn't know there was supposed to be a separately grouped entity in oneness within the Body! I thought the whole Body was supposed to be one.

4. "safeguard for the unique ministry in the Lord's recovery" - what does this mean exactly? What is the Lord's recovery, defined? Again, if it goes back to Luther, then Lee/Nee cannot claim uniqueness in anything, and the ones upon whose shoulders they stood should be part of this ministry.

5. I can't even go on, they throw so many overblown buzzwords into the next sentence that my brain short circuits - "no way" "preserve" "integrity" "crucial" "practical oneness" - enough already.

I don't even know if I can do this. Others are more than welcome to jump in and make suggestions for this thread. I just wanted to at least give a place for the One Publication letter specifically.

Drake · 08-22-2018, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

I guess I can start out with the first paragraph.

1. My first issue is the title. If LSM truly considers the "recovery" work of the Lord to have broadly started with Martin Luther as they say (see 3rd bullet point here: https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/recovery/), and claim that "the Lord's Recovery" is not a name used to refer to the churches under Nee/Lee, then the title right off is ludicrous.

2. "...there should be one publication among us." To say "among us" is instantly divisive in the Body of Christ, as Nee himself stated. To paraphrase, "if we use the term "we" or "us" to refer to anything other than all the believers in a city, then we are schismatic."

3. "testimony of our oneness in the Body" - I didn't know there was supposed to be a separately grouped entity in oneness within the Body! I thought the whole Body was supposed to be one.

4. "safeguard for the unique ministry in the Lord's recovery" - what does this mean exactly? What is the Lord's recovery, defined? Again, if it goes back to Luther, then Lee/Nee cannot claim uniqueness in anything, and the ones upon whose shoulders they stood should be part of this ministry.

5. I can't even go on, they throw so many overblown buzzwords into the next sentence that my brain short circuits - "no way" "preserve" "integrity" "crucial" "practical oneness" - enough already.

I don't even know if I can do this. Others are more than welcome to jump in and make suggestions for this thread. I just wanted to at least give a place for the One Publication letter specifically.

Ok... so...

I’d like to approach it differently and get the lay of the land from a higher slope rather than start hiking in the canyon so to speak.

Therefore, I ask, what explanation is provided in the document about the document? What does it say about its purpose? What problem was it trying to solve, if any? Is there anything in the document that provides context or explains the situation? In what way do the proposed solutions address the problem and are there alternatives to address the same issue? Is scope defined? Are there limitations defined?

I’d say the document addresses most of those questions.

To your first point Trapped about the “Lord’s recovery”... the scope... I do not find the scope of this document to encompass the broader definition of “Lord’s recovery” beginning with Luther. Brother Lee and the document repeatedly state that a narrower definition is being used... it says “According to the practice established by Brother Nee...” and again “When we were on mainland China...” . This is one of the vectors in the scope of the document ... that is, the document is addressing something in these current phases of the Lord’s recovery. If we were to try to apply the points of the document to the broader definition of the Lords recovery beginning with Luther is doesn’t apply or make sense. So anything stated in the document only applies to the period in the Lords recovery, approximately the last hundred years, till today from His recovery beginning, or part way into,in China.

Drake

Ohio · 08-22-2018, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

Ok... so...

I’d like to approach it differently and get the lay of the land from a higher slope rather than start hiking in the canyon so to speak.

Therefore, I ask, what explanation is provided in the document about the document? What does it say about its purpose? What problem was it trying to solve, if any? Is there anything in the document that provides context or explains the situation? In what way do the proposed solutions address the problem and are there alternatives to address the same issue? Is scope defined? Are there limitations defined?

I’d say the document addresses most of those questions.

To your first point Trapped about the “Lord’s recovery”... the scope... I do not find the scope of this document to encompass the broader definition of “Lord’s recovery” beginning with Luther. Brother Lee and the document repeatedly state that a narrower definition is being used... it says “According to the practice established by Brother Nee...” and again “When we were on mainland China...” . This is one of the vectors in the scope of the document ... that is, the document is addressing something in these current phases of the Lord’s recovery. If we were to try to apply the points of the document to the broader definition of the Lords recovery beginning with Luther is doesn’t apply or make sense. So anything stated in the document only applies to the period in the Lords recovery, approximately the last hundred years, till today from His recovery beginning, or part way into,in China.

Drake

Does this make any sense? Call on Martin Luther et. al. for legitimacy, and then say "oh by the way, we change the rules." Luther, via the printing press, opened the floodgates of diverse writings about scripture. Anybody and everybody now had a voice. And a pen. Only the money changers at LSM think this is bad.

W. Lee led us to believe many things about China under W. Nee. Today I don't believe anything he told us. To believe Lee is to negate every other author, both from within and without the Little Flock movement in China. Either W. Lee is right and all other co-workers and historians are liars, or ... You fill in the blanks.

Actually, in the early days in the US, roughly from 1962 to 1980, there were many writers and publishers within the LCM. Lee was just one of many ministers, that is until he took over and threw the rest of them under the bus. By 2010 LSM's takeover was complete when they excommunicated Titus Chu in Cleveland and Dong Yu Lan in Brazil. They have finally purged the last holdouts.

Now they claim "we have always had only one publication, and that's why we have always been so one."

Hypocrites.

.

Drake · 08-22-2018, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

Ok... so...

I’d like to approach it differently and get the lay of the land from a higher slope rather than start hiking in the canyon so to speak.

Therefore, I ask, what explanation is provided in the document about the document? What does it say about its purpose? What problem was it trying to solve, if any? Is there anything in the document that provides context or explains the situation? In what way do the proposed solutions address the problem and are there alternatives to address the same issue? Is scope defined? Are there limitations defined?

I’d say the document addresses most of those questions.

To your first point Trapped about the “Lord’s recovery”... the scope... I do not find the scope of this document to encompass the broader definition of “Lord’s recovery” beginning with Luther. Brother Lee and the document repeatedly state that a narrower definition is being used... it says “According to the practice established by Brother Nee...” and again “When we were on mainland China...” . This is one of the vectors in the scope of the document ... that is, the document is addressing something in these current phases of the Lord’s recovery. If we were to try to apply the points of the document to the broader definition of the Lords recovery beginning with Luther is doesn’t apply or make sense. So anything stated in the document only applies to the period in the Lords recovery, approximately the last hundred years, till today from His recovery beginning, or part way into,in China.

Drake

The scope of this document further narrows the subject.... (within that time period of the Lords' recovery commencing during Watchman Nee's ministry to the present) to the ministry... not the Lord's recovery in its entirety.

Brother Lee explains as follows:

"Whether or not a certain church takes the ministry does not decide whether that church is a genuine local church. The title of this message does not say “no uncertain sounding of the trumpet in the Lord’s recovery” but “in the Lord’s ministry.” I am not talking about something in the Lord’s recovery, but I am talking about the ministry."

Drake

Ohio · 08-22-2018, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

The scope of this document further narrows the subject.... (within that time period of the Lords' recovery commencing during Watchman Nee's ministry to the present) to the ministry... not the Lord's recovery in its entirety.

Brother Lee explains as follows:

"Whether or not a certain church takes the ministry does not decide whether that church is a genuine local church. The title of this message does not say “no uncertain sounding of the trumpet in the Lord’s recovery” but “in the Lord’s ministry.” I am not talking about something in the Lord’s recovery, but I am talking about the ministry."

Drake

Once again this quote by Drake shows the gross disconnect between actions taken by LSM and what some book says. Operatives from LSM came into every Midwest LC 10 years ago to divide these churches over this very matter. The quote by Lee supposedly addresses the ministry only. Actually it places standards on churches, whether they are genuine local churches or not.

Let me be honest here but blunt -- I continue to find everything Drake posts about LSM to be nothing more than horse manure!

I am a contemporary of Drake. I first contacted the LC in Cleveland in 1973. I was actively serving greater Ohio churches for 30 years. Then they came in as thieves to divide and destroy every Midwest church over this one matter -- do we use LSM's books exclusively in our meetings?

Nell · 08-23-2018, 05:09 AM

If "the ministry" as defined by a bunch of old fat men in "the one publication", were all it claimed to be, it would in fact be UNSTOPPABLE. If you have to legislate allegiance to your "ministry", there is something really wrong with your "ministry."

Does the Bible owe its longevity to a bunch of old fat men who, by mandate, crammed it down the throats of the faithful for centuries in order to keep it alive?

In fact, the nature of God is to give people the freedom to choose to follow Him---or not. We have the Bible today because of the faithful men and women, Divinely inspired and empowered, who chose to keep it alive for centuries. We are told that the Word of God is living (not the "one publication"). In the beginning was the Word...the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

How does this compare to "the ministry" of Witness Lee, in which Lee points the way to himself and not to Jesus? This "one publication" letter/document/whatever is an embarrassment to those who wrote it...as Trapped has noted. Further, this document is an obvious admission that Lee's "ministry" cannot stand on its own. That is, Lee's "ministry" can only stand as long as some old fat men prop it up with bogus mandatory loyalty imposed on those over whom they have "power". This "one publication" edict is an admission that the "ministry" of a dead man will die without someone (a bunch of old fat men) pumping air into it.

Why do we need "the ministry," the "one publication", when we have the eternal, unstoppable Bible?

Nell

Trapped · 08-23-2018, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

The scope of this document further narrows the subject.... (within that time period of the Lords' recovery commencing during Watchman Nee's ministry to the present) to the ministry... not the Lord's recovery in its entirety. Brother Lee explains as follows: "Whether or not a certain church takes the ministry does not decide whether that church is a genuine local church. The title of this message does not say “no uncertain sounding of the trumpet in the Lord’s recovery” but “in the Lord’s ministry.” I am not talking about something in the Lord’s recovery, but I am talking about the ministry."

Well...................................

While the message quoted may say that, unfortunately the title of the whole letter is "...in the Lord's recovery" so it's difficult to see how they don't mean just that.

Another issue with the quote you provided is "in the Lord's ministry". They should have said "no uncertain sounding of the trumpet in Nee/Lee's ministry". This is one big problem I have seen over and over again - LSM equates/conflates/substitutes "Witness Lee's ministry" with "the ministry" with "the Lord's ministry" with "the New Testament ministry".

The Lord's ministry is actually all over the whole earth and is much larger than just Nee or Lee's ministries. It is THE LORD'S! The Lord is working in people's lives through people all over the earth in ways that have nothing to do with Lee or Nee. THAT is the Lord's ministry, not just that which proceeds out through the mouth of Lee, in which case it once again is ludicrous to say there should only be one publication in the whole of the Lord's ministry.

Trapped · 08-27-2018, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

"Whether or not a certain church takes the ministry does not decide whether that church is a genuine local church. The title of this message does not say “no uncertain sounding of the trumpet in the Lord’s recovery” but “in the Lord’s ministry.” I am not talking about something in the Lord’s recovery, but I am talking about the ministry."

This is to further detail out the contradiction found in the statement quoted above when compared to the contents of the letter.

Unfortunately, the letter goes on to make a very clear connection between the one publication and the Lord's recovery (not the Lord's ministry), over and over.

Letter itself

1. In the title: PUBLICATION WORK IN THE LORD’S RECOVERY
2. First paragraph: ... this crucial matter in the Lord’s recovery
3. Third paragraph: These are the materials that have been used regularly in the church life in the Lord’s recovery, and these constitute the one publication among us today.
4. Sixth paragraph: the sounding of the one trumpet in the Lord’s recovery today.
6. Seventh paragraph: We all must realize that the one publication in the Lord’s recovery is quite a serious matter.
7. Seventh paragraph again: Since Brother Nee’s day we in the Lord’s recovery have been “restricted in one publication”
8. Eighth paragraph: all the saints and all the churches everywhere should similarly be restricted in one publication in the Lord’s recovery.
9. Tenth paragraph: Finally, all the churches and saints everywhere must understand that the matter of one publication is ... something related to the one ministry in the Lord’s recovery.

Ministry portion following letter

1. First paragraph: One thing that has caused the Lord’s recovery trouble is the fact that we have different publications.

Drake · 08-28-2018, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

This is to further detail out the contradiction found in the statement quoted above when compared to the contents of the letter. Unfortunately, the letter goes on

Wait.

If we are going to be precise let’s be so in all aspects.

The statement quoted was from the letter. Not that the letter said one thing and the statement quoted was only found elsewhere.

So then, is your objection that the content of the letter contradicts itself?

Drake

TLFisher · 08-28-2018, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

[/SIZE][/FONT]Since Brother Nee’s day we in the Lord’s recovery have been “restricted in one publication”
[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]
]

Is this really accurate?
I seem to recall up until a particular time during the 70's perhaps, there were multiple publications available in bookrooms. Restriction to one publication as the author indicates didn't occur until later.

Trapped · 08-23-2018, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

Ok... so...

I’d like to approach it differently and get the lay of the land from a higher slope rather than start hiking in the canyon so to speak.

Therefore, I ask, what explanation is provided in the document about the document? What does it say about its purpose? What problem was it trying to solve, if any? Is there anything in the document that provides context or explains the situation? In what way do the proposed solutions address the problem and are there alternatives to address the same issue? Is scope defined? Are there limitations defined?

I’d say the document addresses most of those questions.

To your first point Trapped about the “Lord’s recovery”... the scope... I do not find the scope of this document to encompass the broader definition of “Lord’s recovery” beginning with Luther. Brother Lee and the document repeatedly state that a narrower definition is being used... it says “According to the practice established by Brother Nee...” and again “When we were on mainland China...” . This is one of the vectors in the scope of the document ... that is, the document is addressing something in these current phases of the Lord’s recovery. If we were to try to apply the points of the document to the broader definition of the Lords recovery beginning with Luther is doesn’t apply or make sense. So anything stated in the document only applies to the period in the Lords recovery, approximately the last hundred years, till today from His recovery beginning, or part way into,in China.

Drake

To respond to your first post, I will be fine if some posts in this thread are emotional rather than analytical given the seriousness of repercussions that resulted from the letter, I just don't want the thread to be dominated by it and I don't expect it will.

Regarding your suggestion above, I like that approach better than mine, but it will take some time for me to be able to provide any kind of coherent response. (Of course others can provide their responses in the meantime!)

The very short answer seems to be that the letter is saying "hey look, anyone can publish, but if you do it won't be considered part of the awe-inspiring 'One Publication'". Long-story-short it's basically it's a book publisher saying "we only publish Nee and Lee and if anyone else writes something it won't be endorsed by us and we are heavily insinuating that it will most likely cause damage so run away from it." Sadly they are addressing this letter to a specific collection of churches, which is why we are known as LSM CHURCHES!!!!

I got a little sarcastic there but let me get serious again: one thing that would help me to respond is to know a little bit more about the context of what was going on in the local churches before this letter was put out. It wasn't written in a vacuum, right? It seems obvious it is in response to some turmoil and most likely is attempting to address the "problems" inherent in the situations. Could you (or anyone) give me some background info there?

Ohio · 08-22-2018, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

4. "safeguard for the unique ministry in the Lord's recovery" - what does this mean exactly? What is the Lord's recovery, defined? Again, if it goes back to Luther, then Lee/Nee cannot claim uniqueness in anything, and the ones upon whose shoulders they stood should be part of this ministry.

Using Martin Luther as the starting point of "Recovery" requires extensive historical revisionism. Without a doubt Luther stood with many Reformers across Europe to work with the Spirit of God. Luther himself, however, declared "I am a Hussite" when he starkly realized that his faith and teachings merely duplicated that of the Bohemian martyr John Huss a century before him. And who was Huss's predecessor? You get the point.

Yes, the dark ages were dark indeed, but there never was a time when the faith or the scriptures were completely "lost" as Lee would want us to believe. In yet another irony, Martin Luther is simultaneously declared the first Minister of the Age (MOTA) and a total failure for the Lutheran state church. Supposedly he began the recovery but ruined the church. Oh well.

The tenets of the "Recovery" are built on the sinking sands of hagiography. It exists merely to serve the legitimacy needs of their MOTA. In principle there is no difference from the RCC's claim that Peter was their first Pope, and the recovery's claim that Luther was their first MOTA. Like the mythological lineage of popes, it really gets crazy when they attempt to establish the lineage of MOTAs after Luther. Anyone ever hear of Madame Guyon? Yep, a bona fide MOTA. Just ask LSM archivists.

leastofthese · 08-22-2018, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

I don't even know if I can do this. Others are more than welcome to jump in and make suggestions for this thread. I just wanted to at least give a place for the One Publication letter specifically.

Trapped,

I think the letter speaks for itself, it doesn't even take a critical eye so see its absurdity (I don't intend for this to be inflammatory, but I know of no other way to describe this message). Some passages I found interesting from different paragraphs:

Without one publication, there is no way to preserve the integrity of the Lord’s ministry among us, which is crucial to the practical oneness among the local churches.

Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room publish both the past ministry that was delivered to us by Brother Nee and Brother Lee and the ongoing, up-to-date speaking that comes out of the fellowship of the blended co-workers and is based on the ministry materials of Brother Lee and Brother Nee. These are the materials that have been used regularly in the church life in the Lord’s recovery, and these constitute the one publication among us today.

It is important to note that Brother Lee spoke directly about the continuation of the ministry among us. He felt that after his departure the ministry should be carried out by a group of co-workers who are blended, just as his own service in the ministry was under his coordination with the co-workers.

occasionally there may be publications of these other kinds which Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room feel to publish either under their own names or under special imprints that serve particular publication needs.

Thus, those who wish to write in this way should bring their proposals to the blended co-workers as well as to Living Stream Ministry and Taiwan Gospel Book Room and have their proposals checked to see whether they should be published or not.

We all must realize that the one publication in the Lord’s recovery is quite a serious matter. Anyone who participates in it must genuinely have the portion from the Lord to do so, and this portion should be easily recognizable to the churches and affirmed by those who take the lead in the ministry and those who take the lead in the publication work.... For decades we all have been nurtured and richly supplied by the one publication. The benefits of being restricted in one publication can hardly be denied.

Problems can be caused, however, when these local and non-permanent publications gain larger geographical status. Further, it is particularly problematic when new technologies, such as the Internet, are used to distribute these local publications. The elders should take special care to assure that what is produced for their local churches remains a local matter.

Finally, all the churches and saints everywhere must understand that the matter of one publication is not a matter of the common faith but something related to the one ministry in the Lord’s recovery. The ministry is the sounding of the trumpet among us in the Lord’s recovery, and there should be no uncertain sounding of this trumpet, as Brother Lee has mentioned on a number of occasions. However, the one publication should not become the basis of our accepting or rejecting any persons in the communion of faith or in the fellowship of the churches; it should not be insisted on as an item of the faith. If any are not inclined to be restricted in one publication, these ones are still our brothers; they are still in the genuine local churches. We would like to conclude with these words from our Brother Lee and wish to recommend that the full context of his words be read from Elders’ Training, Book 7: One Accord for the Lord’s Move, pp. 74-75:

I have to be faithful to the Lord, faithful to so many of you who have been very much affected by this ministry, and faithful to myself. For this reason, this ministry cannot allow anyone to pretend to be in it and yet still say something different. This does not mean that I ask you to stay away from your local church or that your local church is no longer a local church. What I am fellowshipping about is the impact of the ministry for the fighting of the Lord’s interest in His recovery.

Ohio · 08-22-2018, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

PUBLICATION WORK IN THE LORD’S RECOVERY

Through Brother Lee’s fellowship over the years, we have long realized that there should be one publication among us. The one publication is not only a testimony of our oneness in the Body but also a safeguard for the unique ministry in the Lord’s recovery. Without one publication, there is no way to preserve the integrity of the Lord’s ministry among us, which is crucial to the practical oneness among the local churches. Brother Lee gave this word of testimony on this crucial matter in the Lord’s recovery:

This is what Paul told the Corinthians ...

4. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
6. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all.
7. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. (I Cor 12)

By mandating their "One Publication" bull, LSM has negated the scriptures. They have robbed the body of Christ of a varieties of ministries by allowing only the ministry of Lee.

Rather than keeping the oneness of the body, this divides the body. This makes all the member LC's "of Lee." The oneness of the body of Christ requires the work of the Spirit thru many gifts and the work of the Lord thru many ministries. LSM has replaced the work of God with the fleshly efforts of a publishing house in Anaheim.

By veering way off the instruction of the scripture, LSM continues to produce the exact opposite results of their published objectives.

Trapped · 08-26-2018, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapped

At times there may be writings among us that could be considered for publication as part of the one publication among us. As Brother Lee points out in the quote from Elders’ Training, Book above, these proposals should be “checked as to whether there might be some inaccuracy in the truth.” Discernment must always be exercised when expressing matters related to the divine truth, the divine life, and the gospel. The exercise of this sort of discernment not only protects the teaching among us and the spiritual supply to the saints; it also helps and protects those who endeavor to write. Hence, it is proper that those who endeavor to write in this way bring their work to those who take the lead in the ministry and those who take the lead in the publication work, and those who take the lead should exercise the discernment as to whether or not such proposals should be published as part of the one publication.

There is a paragraph one or two above this one quoted that states essentially that LSM is the sole publisher of Nee and Lee's materials. I have no problem with that, in principle. What I get confused by is when statements are made such as the ones bolded in the above paragraph. Can anyone define what "the one publication" even is? That phrase is paraded and repeated over and over in the letter, but there is no definition. By inference I would think the one publication are Nee and Lee's materials only; however, what does "writings among us that could be part of the one publication" even mean after both men's death, practically? Does this mean that if Brother Smith wrote a book, it would be submitted to LSM for review, and if it passed whatever nebulous test LSM would put it through, that LSM would publish that book showing it as written by Smith? Or if it had the same "flavor" as Nee/Lee, it would just be published as LSM material with no mention of Smith? Is anyone here aware of any example, besides those provided in the letter itself (the only true one of which seems to be Affirmation and Critique which are LSM publications but which include articles authored by other people), where this has occurred? Where a non-Nee/Lee writing among the LCs has been published and disseminated officially as part of "the one publication"?

Is Journey through the Bible that used to be used years ago one of those? I don't think so. Who wrote and published that?

Ohio · 08-27-2018, 04:09 AM

Simple. The One Publication Policy was a means for Lee and the Blendeds to remove their rivals and potential threats to their power.
.

12-10-2016, 11:51 PM	#1
Koinonia Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 524	Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints I would encourage everyone to listen to the following audio message: Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints given last week in Bellevue, WA by Bill Lawson. This will give a very definite impression of where the LC is today. Recently, due to flagging LSM book sales, LC coworkers have appointed a group of brothers to travel around the US (and elsewhere) pushing LC members to purchase more and more ministry publications--with an explicit view to selling off large stocks of books that have been collecting dust in LSM warehouses for the last number of years. In this presentation, Bill Lawson gives an overview of some of the recent LSM conferences and goes through manipulation after manipulation convincing the audience of their need to buy more LSM products. An accompanied PowerPoint presentation can be viewed here. The same presentation is being rolled out across the country by the other brothers chosen for this task (who are all named at the beginning of the Lawson recording).

12-11-2016, 02:55 AM	#2
least Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 174	Re: "Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints" Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

12-11-2016, 07:18 PM	#4
TLFisher Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Renton, Washington Posts: 3,558	Re: "Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints" Constituting oneself with knowledge of an earthly ministry doesn't have a corresponding reality. Still when it comes to fellow Christians not meeting in the local churches, there's no capacity to receive non-LC Christians because they are not denominated by ministry publications.

12-12-2016, 01:09 AM	#7
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: "Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints" They are not that well written either. For example, the publications are not well written, nor are they written well. Repeat the same things they tend to do. So as to repeat the things they tend to do the same. However, in my experience, many Christians cannot read well, so repeating things the same is not a problem, however we should practice more.

12-12-2016, 03:27 PM	#8
Freedom Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1,636	Re: "Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints" It seems to me that the LSM made two major mistakes with regards to its publication business. Firstly, they limited their publications to Nee and Lee. By doing so, they have limited the scope of what can be published and since WL has been gone 20 years, there is nothing new to put out. Their product is limited by the aggregate of 2 past ministries, and all they can do now is find new ways to sell an old product. They have have assumed that there will be a perpetual demand for such publications, when it is likely that demand peaked long ago. The other mistake is that the market for LSM publications has already been saturated with existing LSM publications. Take any longtime member and they have likely purchased a good number of LSM publications and a Life-Study set. Thus, it is unlikely that they want to repurchase the newer publications, even if it is the latest CWWL or whatever. It was also my observation that the younger/newer members did not see the necessity to purchase LSM publications except on an as-needed basis. So the all the publications that LSM might have expected to sell in more recent times have likely gone largely unsold. I think the practice of buying every single book that came out was largely a thing of the past. __________________ Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

12-12-2016, 04:50 PM	#10
Ohio Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greater Ohio Posts: 13,693	Re: "Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints" I tried to listen to Bill Lawson, I really did, but became exhausted after 15 minutes. So sad, so stale, been thru this for years. "HWFMR ... morning after morning ... but it's just like licking bar-b-que sauce off the chicken." Really? Hold on folks! Wasn't that steady diet of HWFMR, excerpts from the most recent training, supposed to "constitute the reader with the divine riches for the building up of the body of Christ consummating in the New Jerusalem?" Apparently it didn't work. So, buy some more books! Look, we're running a special. Collected Works. Order now and save 45%. Their market is definitely drying up. Go to a campus meeting -- no one even carries a Bible any more. Got a smart phone or a tablet? That's all you need. I'm starting to think that LSM quarantined the GLA and Brazil simply because their regional sales projections were falling off. Regardless of what you may have been told, the LC's exist only to support LSM -- attend their trainings, send your kids to FTTA, and buy their books. My long-time observation is that the anointing on those messages is drying up. I read messages 40 years ago, and they were indeed anointed with holy oil. Not so today. Those same messages are dry and tasteless. It's not a joke. __________________ Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!

12-13-2016, 04:05 AM	#11
HERn Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 969	Re: "Promoting Reading the Publication of the Ministry Among the Saints" I listened to the whole thing. My take was that it was nervously given with a worry that not enough books are getting on the members' bookshelves. Not once did I hear the word "Bible". I heard the word "ministry" countless times and the word "word" several times. The speaker equates the ministry or publications of LSM with the word, and the only two names associated with their ministry are Nee and Lee, although the speaker did mention Paul once. They say they are rich, but really they are deceived in that their reading only the publications of LSM keeps them in darkness, poverty and separated from the body of Christ. __________________ Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith." (KJV Version) Look to Jesus not The Ministry.

12-23-2016, 10:01 AM	#15
OBW Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: DFW area Posts: 4,384	Re: Comments on The One Publication by Philip van Dijk One of the biggest flaws in the logic and teaching of Lee and the LRC is that there is something called God's flow that is smaller than all that Christians are doing on the earth through the leading and power of the Holy Spirit. God's flow includes every speaking of the gospel, from fire-and-brimstone preachers to simple homilies in any of the liturgical traditions. It includes the righteous living of His followers as they demonstrate something worthy of note in the world, even when there is nothing spoken. If Christians are in obedience, then God is flowing. In every thing that they do. From washing the dishes to going to the far reaches of the earth to evangelize those who have never heard of Jesus. __________________ Mike I think . . . . I think I am . . . . therefore I am, I think — Edge OR . . . . You may be right, I may be crazy — Joel

12-23-2016, 12:13 PM	#16
ZNPaaneah Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 7,105	Re: Comments on The One Publication by Philip van Dijk It bothers me that some brothers among us still put out publications. According to my truthful observation there is no new light or life supply there. They may contain some biblical doctrines, but any point of life or light has been adopted from the publications of Living Stream Ministry. There is nearly no item of life or light that has not been covered by our publications. Based upon this fact, what is the need for these brothers to put out their publications? Because all the publications are mine, it is hard for me to speak such a word. But I am forced to tell the truth. By putting out your own publication, you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish. Where is the food, the life supply, and the real enlightenment in the other publications among us? Be assured that there is definitely at least one major revelation in every Living Stream Ministry publication. (ELDERS' TRAINING, BOOK 08: THE LIFE-PULSE OF THE LORD'S PRESENT MOVE, Chapter 11, Section 2, Witness Lee) I am glad that Witness Lee gave us a truthful observation, it does reveal what he felt. It is certainly judgmental "no new light or life supply there". I kind of wonder who forced him to tell the truth, because if we knew how to do that we might have found out some other things as well. When I read his word "by putting out your own publication you waste your time and money. You waste the money given by the saints, and you waste their time in reading what you publish" I am reminded of the Lord's word "judge not lest ye be judged, for with what judgement you judge you shall be judged.

12-23-2016, 03:42 PM	#17
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: Comments on The One Publication by Philip van Dijk To me the Lee quote that ZNP just provided can be summed up simply as: "This is not God's thing, it's my thing."

12-23-2016, 06:15 PM	#22
ZNPaaneah Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 7,105	Re: Comments on The One Publication by Philip van Dijk When Paul writes about the gifts of the members of the Body, he begins by speaking of “dumb idols.” … In verse 2 Paul reminds them that when they were of the nations, of the Gentiles, they were “led away to dumb idols.” Here Paul does not say they were led away to sins, lusts, or the world; he says that they were led away to dumb idols, in whatever way they were led. No matter by what way they were led, they were led to dumb idols. Paul's use of the adjective “dumb” implies that both the idols and those who worship them are dumb, unable to speak…. But after coming to believe in Christ, they are now worshippers of the living God. It is by speaking that we prove that we are living. Our God is living. The Bible reveals that our living God is the speaking God. Throughout the centuries, especially in this New Testament age, God has been speaking…. Because the God whom we worship is the living and speaking God, we also speak and thereby prove that we are the living members of the Body of Christ. (Witness Lee, Life-Study of 1 Corinthians, Chapter 57, Section 2) This doctrine of "one trumpet" is merely the leading the saints away to dumb idols.

12-24-2016, 06:12 AM	#23
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: Comments on The One Publication by Philip van Dijk The fact that Lee tried to lead the "Recovery" proves the "Recovery" was just his movement. The "Recovery" is not God's move. If it was, no one would be trying to lead it but God. Note the history of the "Recovery" as told by Lee: God raised up people in his good time to "recover" certain truths. But in all instances prior to Nee and Lee, these people did not consider themselves in some special move. They were simply following the Lord. But as Nee came along and especially with Lee, they began to presume to represent God's move and even to have some say in its direction. The "Recovery" thus became self-conscious and self-directing. Put simply, men presumed to take control of it. Whether God's move was ever embodied in the "Recovery" prior to Nee and Lee is really not the point. The point is once Nee and Lee presumed to be it and to lead it they reduced whatever it was to simply their own movement. And that's what the "Recovery" is today, nothing but a movement of human beings. Do they have God's presence at some level? Sure, as do thousands of other collections of Christians. God continues to move, of course, as he always has, completely unobligated to play by Lee's rules or anyone else's. He who sits in the heavens shall laugh, at me, you, Lee, and anyone else who gets too big for their britches.

08-21-2018, 08:59 PM	#25
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: One Publication I realize the shortcomings of this type of forum as the vehicle for discussion of a letter of this length and concerning what I know is a topic that has caused a lot of problems, so I am not sure how this will go. I'd love to go line by line, or paragraph by paragraph, but it is difficult in a forum format. What I really want is a sober-minded, non-inflammatory, logical, rational look at the document. I personally see many flaws and double-speak, but I don't want to get into it in an irrational way.....I am looking for more of a "detached" analysis, if you will. A level-headed discussion about it without getting into high emotions. Please note that I have no intention to dismiss the many, many hurts, pains, sufferings, or lives that have found themselves thrown off a moving vehicle and skidding along a gravel highway at 100 mph because of this letter and the ramifications thereof. I have just personally found that if I speak to elders or co-workers in a more analytical way about things like this, they are much more willing to listen and even agree. An emotional response is more than valid given what has occurred in the local churches, I fully recognize that, but within the restrictions of what I am trying to accomplish with this thread, a more detached approach would help. I don't even know where to start but wanted to get this much written for now so I would be on the hook to keep going.

08-23-2018, 05:09 AM	#32
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,107	Re: One Publication If "the ministry" as defined by a bunch of old fat men in "the one publication", were all it claimed to be, it would in fact be UNSTOPPABLE. If you have to legislate allegiance to your "ministry", there is something really wrong with your "ministry." Does the Bible owe its longevity to a bunch of old fat men who, by mandate, crammed it down the throats of the faithful for centuries in order to keep it alive? In fact, the nature of God is to give people the freedom to choose to follow Him---or not. We have the Bible today because of the faithful men and women, Divinely inspired and empowered, who chose to keep it alive for centuries. We are told that the Word of God is living (not the "one publication"). In the beginning was the Word...the Word was God...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. How does this compare to "the ministry" of Witness Lee, in which Lee points the way to himself and not to Jesus? This "one publication" letter/document/whatever is an embarrassment to those who wrote it...as Trapped has noted. Further, this document is an obvious admission that Lee's "ministry" cannot stand on its own. That is, Lee's "ministry" can only stand as long as some old fat men prop it up with bogus mandatory loyalty imposed on those over whom they have "power". This "one publication" edict is an admission that the "ministry" of a dead man will die without someone (a bunch of old fat men) pumping air into it. Why do we need "the ministry," the "one publication", when we have the eternal, unstoppable Bible? Nell

08-27-2018, 04:09 AM	#42
Ohio Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greater Ohio Posts: 13,693	Re: One Publication Simple. The One Publication Policy was a means for Lee and the Blendeds to remove their rivals and potential threats to their power. . __________________ Ohio's motto is: With God all things are possible!. Keeping all my posts short, quick, living, and to the point!