Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery aka The One Publication

[Drake]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Who are the authors on the list of these “anyone”’s who have published under your ministry?

Ummmmm...What?

Apparently you aren’t following the discussion LofT. I’ve already addressed that point.

Drake

[Ohio]

Isn't it easier to just answer these simple questions rather than play your silly games?

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

Ummmmm...What?

Apparently you aren’t following the discussion LofT. I’ve already addressed that point.

Drake

Sorry, I’ll swing back to it. Which post was it?

[UntoHim]

When someone asks most people, perhaps even the majority of those outside of any Judeo-Christian context, or even those outside of any faith at all: "What would you consider as the 'one publication' of the Christian faith"? I would guarantee you that the vast majority would answer "Why, the Bible of course". But the rubber really only meets the road when one ventures a follow up question: "So you only use the Bible?....you have no other supporting or supplemental publications?"

Different, yet similar, answers will come forth from a Mormon, a Jehovah's Witness, a member of Christian Science, a Seventh Day Adventist, and finally a Roman Catholic (I'll stop the list here for the sake of brevity!) The follow up answer from the Mormon would quickly be "The Book of Mormon". The follow up answer from a Jehovah's Witness would be "The Watchtower and Awake!" The follow up answer from the Christian Science person would be "Science and Health". The follow up from the Seventh Day Adventist would be "The Pillars of Adventism". The answer from the Roman Catholic would be "The authority and traditions of the Church". (Interestingly enough, a similar answer would come forth from any orthordox Jew - "We hold the Talmud as equal to the Torah".)

Now let's ask any good brother or sister in The Local Church: "What is the one publication of the Local Church(es)?". After giving you a stern mini-lecture about how "the Local Church is NOT our name...it is only a description of how we meet!"...most will set off into a world-class tirade of obfuscation, evading and avoiding (aka shucking and jiving) and just a general denial that they they have any other "one publication" besides the Bible.

Why the obfuscation? Why the evading and avoiding? Why the denials of what is the manifest and undeniable fact? Why do they not proudly proclaim that they have another one publication besides the Bible - like the Mormons do? Like the Jehovah's Witnesses do? Like the Christian Scientists and Seventh Day Adventists do? Like the Roman Catholics do?

Well, the answer is obvious to even the most casual of objective observers. The Local Church of Witness Lee, at least in recent history, wants to be considered as "orthodox, evangelical Christians". They have even joined previously condemned and mocked organizations such as the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association. Ironically, if the Local Church/Living Stream had honestly presented their views, beliefs and understandings regarding the personal ministry of Witness Lee, they would have been soundly rejected for membership in the ECPA. Why? For the same reasons as the ECPA rejects the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and Roman Catholics - They have another "one publication" besides the Holy Bible.
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[Drake]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

When someone asks most people, perhaps even the majority of those outside of any Judeo-Christian context, or even those outside of any faith at all: "What would you consider as the 'one publication' of the Christian faith"? I would guarantee you that the vast majority would answer "Why, the Bible of course". But the rubber really only meets the road when one ventures a follow up question: "So you only use the Bible?....you have no other supporting or supplemental publications?"

....
They have another "one publication" besides the Holy Bible.
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UntoHim,

Your argument against supplemental publications is weak.

I am staring at a 37 Volume Church Fathers Set as I type this response... the earliest written almost 1900 years ago. Should those have not been written and published?

Even those who claim to only use the Bible are beneficiaries of the many writings of faithful brothers and sisters who wrote volumes about the Bible. It sounds really spiritual to say one only reads the Bible but in reality there are very few who do or will derive a lot from it for the simple reason that the Lord speaks through the many members and the gifted ones.

Now if you are such a person who reads one publication and only one, that is the Bible, then good for you. You and the Bible got your own thing going. Yet, if the truths that the Lord has released through many faithful servants were not captured in print then those truths would have been lost. Bible Truth Publishers printed early Brethren writings, Loizeaux printed some also, more recently Conley & Schoettle bring us Govett, Pember, Panton, .. well, I think each of these publishers and others did the church a great service by publishing writings that are interpretations of the Bible. The printing press brought good and bad but at least those ideas are not just relying on word of mouth to pass on the ideas.

Look, you might be a really smart and spiritual person and just by reading the Bible you might have seen everything the Lord showed those faithful servants..... but most of us are not like that. I for one am very happy that those teachings and explanations were captured in print. Now I can read for myself what the Lord showed them and have new conversations with the Lord about those too. They will never replace the Bible and the Holy Spirit but it is a false argument to argue that printed supplemental messages and articles should not be printed. I'm not naive enough to think that what the Lord will reveal to me is everything He only revealed to me directly.


... and a happy new year to you too.


Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

well, I think each of these publishers and others did the church a great service by publishing writings that are interpretations of the Bible. The printing press brought good and bad but at least those ideas are not just relying on word of mouth to pass on the ideas...
They will never replace the Bible and the Holy Spirit but it is a false argument to argue that printed supplemental messages and articles should not be printed. I'm not naive enough to think that what the Lord will reveal to me is everything He only revealed to me directly.


... and a happy new year to you too.


Drake

Yes. As I already quoted Paul has come down on this argument in a very strong way already. Different publishers have different agendas, but as long as Jesus is proclaimed we can all rejoice.

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

The Bible is very clear that everyone should proclaim Christ, regardless of whether or not you are an apostle commissioned with "completing the word of God" or not.

I have no issue with LSM exercising editorial oversight. Nor is there anything unscriptural about reading spiritual books, it is all part of "the mind set on the Spirit".

The only concern I would have would be the alarm Paul raised in Galatians: 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

The perversion of the gospel is astonishingly common. It seems everyone does it. WN and WL complained of many examples of the gospel being perverted in Christianity. This forum is examining the doctrines of WL to see if they also "desert the one who called us to live in the grace of Christ".

WL emphasized repeatedly that his message was "different" from Christianity. The question many of us have is was his message different from the gospel?

Also, these Judaizers insist on circumcision because they are afraid of being persecuted by other Jewish religious leaders. It's one thing to agree that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation, but to teach that circumcision is not necessary will paint a target on their backs. Paul knew that from hard experience! So they take the easy way out and do both. Paul has taught clearly that the two cannot go together (Galatians 5:4).

It seems to me that the perversion of the gospel takes place when people choose the easy way out. King Saul did this when he did not obey. Abraham did not do this when he offered up Isaac. WL took the easy way out when he covered up WN's sin, he did it again with the Sister's rebellion, and he did it again in the 80s with JI, etal.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

I am staring at a 37 Volume Church Fathers Set as I type this response... the earliest written almost 1900 years ago. Should those have not been written and published?

Drake,

LSM used their One Publication policy to excommunicate numerous ministers and divide dozens of churches. When has another book publisher ever done that in the course of church history?

It's good that you have the 37 volume Church Fathers set. Which denomination has ever demanded that their member churches read only from that set? When did the Publisher of that set decide to excommunicate ministers who did not teach from only that set?

I do wish you would be a little more straight forward and address the real concerns here, rather than going down rabbit holes like claiming other posters are demanding that ONLY the Bible be read.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's good that you have the 37 volume Church Fathers set. Which denomination has ever demanded that their member churches read only from that set? When did the Publisher of that set decide to excommunicate ministers who did not teach from only that set?.

Good for Drake that his local elders are okay with that, but not so with others. I have bought a few books with different Christian authors. But when the elder saw that I had a Christian book that isn't published by LSM, he demanded me to read Lee's books only!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Good for Drake that his local elders are okay with that, but not so with others. I have bought a few books with different Christian authors. But when the elder saw that I had a Christian book that isn't published by LSM, he demanded me to read Lee's books only!

Well, I believe you Kevin but I've never encountered that and I have observed many authors on the shelves of private libraries of brothers including leading ones. Furthermore, I bought most of my Govett, Pember, Panton, etc. from Conley and Schoettle publishers who had a table at an LSM sponsored conference. Additionally, LSM publishes the works of Watchman Nee that within also references and publishes those other authors works (Jessie Penn Lewis, S.D Gordon, and others) in the Collected Works.

I can't speak to your experience and why the elder demanded that you read only Brother Lee's books. It really baffles me because I have never seen an elder or a leading one exhibit that attitude or behavior in my four decades + about what anyone can read. It's a ridiculous demand and expectation because it goes contrary to the observation above and even if an elder were predisposed to controlling others in that way it is impossible to enforce.

Anyway, here's the thing. The "One Publication" is not about what one can read... it is about what LSM will publish under the banner of the ministry they are entrusted with. Every publisher reserves the right to publish what they feel responsible to the Lord for. I don't see any demands in the One Publication that forbids anyone from reading and owning whatever they like.

And finally, in UntoHim's argument he borrowed the "One Publication" term to make a different point, that being that the ONLY publication we as Christians should have is the Bible. So for you my friend, better get all Fahrenheit 451 with those John Piper books you treasure.

Drake