Publication Work in The Lord's Recovery aka The One Publication

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Well Paul only wrote 15 books over his ministry period of 30 years. Witness Lee wrote over 400 books over a ministry period of about 50 years. Paul did not write sufficiently for us today. In fact Paul did not even write books to explain various things like Witness Lee did, they are just letters from which we must infer many things. The insufficiency of Paul's writings is evident by the prevalence of Christian writings today and Christian bookstores. Otherwise why would we need them? It is remarkable that some Christians think God, knowing that the church would continue or 2000 years after Paul, would not provide people with sufficient written resources to aid their spiritual growth, by people such as Watchman Nee and Witness Lee.

"The insufficiency of Paul's writings"

Wow! That statement was an honest opinion that would never be uttered in pub!ic by the elders or LSM leaders. There we have it, God's inspired word, the New Testsament is insufficient!!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by HERn

"The insufficiency of Paul's writings"

Wow! That statement was an honest opinion that would never be uttered in pub!ic by the elders or LSM leaders. There we have it, God's inspired word, the New Testsament is insufficient!!

So I assume you don't have any Christian books other than just the New Testament. If you do, then this proves that the New Testament is not sufficient for you. That is what I meant by the insufficiency of Paul's writings, not that they themselves lacked anything except deeper and further revelation which others could complete.

The Bible never says it was complete, nor does it say ministry ceased when the Bible was written.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

So I assume you don't have any Christian books other than just the New Testament. If you do, then this proves that the New Testament is not sufficient for you. That is what I meant by the insufficiency of Paul's writings, not that they themselves lacked anything except deeper and further revelation which others could complete.

The Bible never says it was complete, nor does it say ministry ceased when the Bible was written.

There is the warning in Revelation 22 about not adding or taking away from the revelation. The fact that it came at the end of the whole Bible could be taken to mean "revelation" refers to the whole Bible.

The LCM has always flirted with the idea that Lee's teaching was "further revelation" almost on par or even on par with the Bible. That's the danger.

[JJ]

The concept of needing "the interpreted Word" from "the minister of the Word" came from Watchman Nee

http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=27062AC2C5

It was restated by Witness Lee

http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=260328CBC5

http://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=260328CBCA

And in recent years, I witnessed "the blenders", coworkers, elders, and saints in TLR teaching that "the interpreted Word" is the LSM publications, and they are better than the Bible itself for guiding your Christian life and "church life".

That is one of the things that caused me to run, and run fast from TLR.

Paul considered that he was completing the word of God http://biblehub.com/colossians/1-25.htm

John and Old Testament prophets gave severe warnings about adding to or taking away from God's Word
http://biblehub.com/revelation/22-19.htm

That's enough for me to steal clear of LSM "interpreted word" claims, and warn others not to "buy it". Read the Bible yourself, rely on the Holy Spirit first, commentaries second.

[Evangelical]

If it is correct that we just need to read the Bible for ourselves and rely on the Spirit, then why did God give the church teachers? (Ephesians 4:11). It seems that teachers are not required if we just read for ourselves and rely upon the Spirit.

And why did the Spirit lead Philip to speak to this man:

Acts 8:30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

Acts 8:31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

Did Philip tell the man to "rely on the Holy Spirit first"? No, it was the Spirit who inspired Philip to help the man.

Reading the bible for ourselves without consulting others is a sure way to fall into deception. We need teachers and explainers like Philip to help us understand the Bible.

This is why we have Sunday School classes. We don't just expect children to read the bible for themselves and not help them understand it.

I know the hypocrisy of many in denominations today. On the one hand they hold just a copy of the Bible and claim to be led by the Spirit when they read it, not requiring any other assistance. On the other hand they gladly accept the pastor's messages (such as how to be successful in business etc) which have nothing to do with Paul's ministry, and when they say "give more so you will be blessed more" they are all too willing to part with their money so as to receive a "blessing".

[JJ]

Good come back. You have been well trained, as that example was cited by both Nee and Lee as the basis for their "interpreted word" teaching. Phillip's interpretation helped the Eunich to understand the scripture and turn to Jesus. But Phillip didn't tell the Eunich to put his scripture away. And, the Holy Spirit bore witness to both.

Dropping any one of these things (help from other brothers, written scripture, or Holy Spirit's guidance) is the problem.

I observed saints reading only portions of LSM without the verse references, dead meetings without scripture reading to check what was being said, and praising of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee and/or "the church".

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by JJ

Good come back. You have been well trained, as that example was cited by both Nee and Lee as the basis for their "interpreted word" teaching. Phillip's interpretation helped the Eunich to understand the scripture and turn to Jesus. But Phillip didn't tell the Eunich to put his scripture away. And, the Holy Spirit bore witness to both.

Dropping any one of these things (help from other brothers, written scripture, or Holy Spirit's guidance) is the problem.

I observed saints reading only portions of LSM without the verse references, dead meetings without scripture reading to check what was being said, and praising of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee and/or "the church".

It's not a replacement for scripture, we never tell anyone to put scripture away. Scripture always comes first.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It's not a replacement for scripture, we never tell anyone to put scripture away. Scripture always comes first.

Just keep them so busy that they don't have time for anything but hwfmr.

Then don't allow them to speak from the Bible, only the hwfmr.

[OnHisPath]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

So I assume you don't have any Christian books other than just the New Testament. If you do, then this proves that the New Testament is not sufficient for you. That is what I meant by the insufficiency of Paul's writings, not that they themselves lacked anything except deeper and further revelation which others could complete.

The Bible never says it was complete, nor does it say ministry ceased when the Bible was written.

Evangelical, I'm curious about this. If Paul's writings could be in need of "deeper and further revelation which others could complete", do you feel the same is true for Nee and Lee's writings?

The Bible may never say it was complete, but the LC seems to say that Lee's writings/ministry are complete and will end the age. Since the Lord hasn't returned yet, could there be more revelation, ministry and such from believers? I personally don't see any need for more revelation than Christ and Him crucified, but I'm curious your thoughts.

I remember expecting my first child and reading some of Nee's writings having to do with family and child rearing with my in-laws. We read a portion where it was suggested that the whole family should be involved in the punishment of children. After the parents had hit the children's hands with an implement and made them bleed, the siblings should be ready with cloth and water to help tend to the wounds. Kinda freaked me out a bit. As you suggested that Paul didn't write sufficiently for us today, I would suggest that Nee and Lee didn't write sufficiently for us today, either.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OnHisPath

I remember expecting my first child and reading some of Nee's writings having to do with family and child rearing with my in-laws. We read a portion where it was suggested that the whole family should be involved in the punishment of children. After the parents had hit the children's hands with an implement and made them bleed, the siblings should be ready with cloth and water to help tend to the wounds. Kinda freaked me out a bit. As you suggested that Paul didn't write sufficiently for us today, I would suggest that Nee and Lee didn't write sufficiently for us today, either.

W. Nee obviously never had children of his own. He spoke more from some ancient Chinese customs, than from the Bible.

And to think ... LSM regularly condemns Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family. Most of us had to read his books in secret.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OnHisPath

Evangelical, I'm curious about this. If Paul's writings could be in need of "deeper and further revelation which others could complete", do you feel the same is true for Nee and Lee's writings? The Bible may never say it was complete, but the LC seems to say that Lee's writings/ministry are complete and will end the age. Since the Lord hasn't returned yet, could there be more revelation, ministry and such from believers?

Well they are complete because they are dead. It doesn't stop anyone else coming along and providing further revelation.

[UntoHim]

"further revelation" has gotten false teachers and apostles and their followers in a lot of trouble since the beginning. Most of the time this is because their "further revelation" is untethered from the plain words of the Scriptures, or sometimes the twisting of or misinterpretation of the plain words.

Still other false teachers and apostles claim to be bringing us back to the original or "recovered" interpretations/meanings of the Scriptures. In most cases, this term recovered is nothing more than the wolf of heresy disguised in the sheep's clothing of "further revelation".
-

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Well they are complete because they are dead. It doesn't stop anyone else coming along and providing further revelation.

That's not what the Blendeds teach. They said Lee completed the intepretation of Bible. The age of spiritual giants is over, say they, the only thing left to do is follow Lee's teachings to a "T" and "build the Body."

Getting those standing orders going! Buy those books!

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Igzy

That's not what the Blendeds teach. They said Lee completed the intepretation of Bible. The age of spiritual giants is over, say they, the only thing left to do is follow Lee's teachings to a "T" and "build the Body."

Getting those standing orders going! Buy those books!

I disagree with that because there are still lots of verses in my recovery version that have no foot notes or where the foot notes are very light in specifics.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I disagree with that because there are still lots of verses in my recovery version that have no foot notes or where the foot notes are very light in specifics.

Well, that's what they taught, dude. Best deal with it and talk to them about it. I'm just the messenger.

[OnHisPath]

Originally Posted by Igzy

That's not what the Blendeds teach. They said Lee completed the intepretation of Bible. The age of spiritual giants is over, say they, the only thing left to do is follow Lee's teachings to a "T" and "build the Body."

Getting those standing orders going! Buy those books!

This is exactly what I remember. There was no room left for other teachers, ministries, etc. It was put forth very clearly that the LC was the complete and final package and the sole move of God on the earth.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OnHisPath

This is exactly what I remember. There was no room left for other teachers, ministries, etc. It was put forth very clearly that the LC was the complete and final package and the sole move of God on the earth.

Paul said he had not arrived, even Witness Lee said he had not yet arrived. I guess they should revise their RcV to say that they have arrived.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by OnHisPath

This is exactly what I remember. There was no room left for other teachers, ministries, etc. It was put forth very clearly that the LC was the complete and final package and the sole move of God on the earth.

Earlier you mentioned Nee's 'advice' on how to discipline children using a form of corporal punishment. These kinds of teachings are the perfect example of why these ministries are not any kind of "final package" to be followed 'absolutely'. Unless LC members are willing to follow Nee's advice and risk getting arrested for child abuse, then it seems they are not really as 'absolute' for the ministry as they claim to be. This highlights a lot of the irony involved in the exclusive use of LSM materials. These kinds of things are still published by LSM and then read among LC members, and while certain things they (hopefully) know not to take seriously, they read these things anyways as if there is some value in reading them. I suspect that the only reason anyone pays any attention to such nonsense like this is because such things came directly from the mouth of the perceived Seer of the Divine Revelation in the Present Age.

Under normal circumstances, if LC members read something by Nee or Lee that they disagreed with, they should have every right to vocalize that disagreement. Instead, they are forced to read things that everyone knows won't be taken seriously, yet they have to keep the disagreement to themselves, and simply 'ignore' things that bother them. Valuable time is wasted reading things of little value. And I'm not saying that Nee or Lee's ministry have no value at all, but because an exclusive use of their ministries has been mandated, the things of little value are mixed in with the things that do have the potential to be helpful, thereby resulting in an ultimate watering down of any potential benefit of these ministries.