Is The Bible Inerrant?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ABrotherinFaith

I really don't know if you're pretending not to understand the question or if you genuinely don't understand it!

Thanks bro ABinF for your kind reply.

You asked : "How would you, today, know God if the Bible didn't exist?"

And that brought forth my personal testimony on how I came to know God.

My question was not about YOU specifically, not about how would you have come to know God.

My bad. I obviously failed to read your question deeply enough.

It was about how, if there were no Bible, would you or ANYONE ELSE know who God was. Anyone else includes the Southern Baptist preacher, choir, minister, brothers and sisters, kids hanging round the door, etc.

Well God has His ways. And nothing is impossible for him.

But you drive a hard argument. There's no denying the Bible has had a profound impact on history -- some good, some bad -- and even is having a profound impact on the present -- again, some good, some bad.

My point is, and I suspect you know this, that without the Bible no one today could know God.

Have some faith bro ABinF, in God. God can reveal Himself without the Bible. Case in point is the Native Americans, who had no Bible, nor knew of Jesus even, but had the Great Spirit. Don't you think that was God revealing Himself to them?

Not only that, but it is the way He has chosen to reveal Himself to us.

Yes, A way. For example, I know brothers and sisters that before they came to the Lord were being led by the Lord, without any Bible being involved.

We do not have an oral tradition or paintings or video or anything else to go by as far as a source is concerned. We have what we have because of the sovereignty of God.

I think I get what you are saying, that, we only have what we have, the Bible. And thank God for that. And thank Him also for protecting other writings too. Like the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Coptic Gnostic writings found at Nag Hammadi in 1946. If God protected the Bible, as some claim, He protected these as well. And lots of other wrings from back in those ancient days too. Just do a search for "Apocryphal books" for samples, and further reading and study.

Of course someone could tell us about God, and we could believe, but without the Bible our believe would be quickly subject to our own whims. It would have nothing to ground it.

But I don't see the Bible as resolving this "our own whims" problem. If anything, history has shown, it exasperates it.

[OBW]

Harold,

Things are sketchy right now. But I have a different view of this one comment or yours:

Originally Posted by awareness

But you drive a hard argument. There's no denying the Bible has had a profound impact on history -- some good, some bad -- and even is having a profound impact on the present -- again, some good, some bad.

This is something I have heard from others. But this is one of those places where "root causes" probably require a deeper look.

And I wonder if the deeper look would find that people who have done bad things with the Bible did so because they wanted to do them. But since they did not want to act contrary to the Bible, they put their own spin on things (a verse, passage, etc.) to create commands in scripture for their errors.

The KKK uses Romans 12:1-2. Anyone think that their version of "present your bodies" is what the Bible is talking about?

It is harder to see the religious errors that are not so blatant. But Lee had quite a few. Just not the same kind of egregious twist that the KKK found in Romans 12.

Don't blame the Bible for the evil that men do. The Bible has not spoken to anyone to do evil. Rather the evil have argued that the Bible has blessed their evil.

But it does not.

[awareness]

Mike, this post (below) was a great post.

I agree the problem is not the Bible, but is how it's used. And ya can't get a higher authority then to use the Bible to justify what you want to do (like the formation of the Southern Baptist church, who used the Bible to justify the holding of slaves.)

And the problem we see in the middle east today ; with the Jews using the Bible to justify taking all the land they say God give to them in their Torah.

Yes the Bible has impact. WWIII might be the result of it.

Come Apocalypse come. Screw our neighbors. Let them suffer. Like when they took the Promised Land in the OT.
---------------------------------------

Originally Posted by OBW

Harold,

Things are sketchy right now. But I have a different view of this one comment or yours:
This is something I have heard from others. But this is one of those places where "root causes" probably require a deeper look.

And I wonder if the deeper look would find that people who have done bad things with the Bible did so because they wanted to do them. But since they did not want to act contrary to the Bible, they put their own spin on things (a verse, passage, etc.) to create commands in scripture for their errors.

The KKK uses Romans 12:1-2. Anyone think that their version of "present your bodies" is what the Bible is talking about?

It is harder to see the religious errors that are not so blatant. But Lee had quite a few. Just not the same kind of egregious twist that the KKK found in Romans 12.

Don't blame the Bible for the evil that men do. The Bible has not spoken to anyone to do evil. Rather the evil have argued that the Bible has blessed their evil.

But it does not.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And the problem we see in the middle east today ; with the Jews using the Bible to justify taking all the land they say God give to them in their Torah.

Yes the Bible has impact. WWIII might be the result of it.

Come Apocalypse come. Screw our neighbors. Let them suffer. Like when they took the Promised Land in the OT.

Bait? Flame? Troll?

This post is too hot for me to touch!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Bait? Flame? Troll?

This post is too hot for me to touch!

The middle east is hot, isn't it? Very troubling.

But to be fair. The Jewish Bible inerrantists are fading in Israel. They may soon lose their free ride state welfare, and have to serve in the military ... for the first time. (Where they may get to live the inerrant "kill everything that takes breath" in their Torah.)

And Israel is becoming ever more secular. "Running off to other" is also in keeping with their inerrant Torah.

Yet not long ago I saw Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu actually say God gave them the land in the Bible (they don't have it all yet).

And THAT'S more than a "flaming" statement ... backed by real nukes ... and Jericho intercontinental ballistic missiles, to deliver them.

Inerrantism has bearing in the world ... and not always good ... like would thought to be expected.

Inerrantism is just one way to use the Bible. And it can be misused and dangerous.

The miracle of God is required to use the miracle of the Bible properly.

[UntoHim]

Harold, you're so far off base you not even in the stadium.

You're mixing up the secular state of Israel with the religion of Judaism. And what's worse you're using your confusion and ignorance as a weapon of mass destruction in your war against the Bible. How many times do I have to tell you my man, please stay on topic. The dealings of and with the secular state of Israel ARE NOT WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THIS FORUM. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Orthodox Jews believe the Old Testament is the inspired, inerrant Word of Jehovah - The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. If you want to get into this then maybe, just maybe you could stay on topic.

Fly straight airman, or you're going to crash and burn...again

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Harold, you're so far off base you not even in the stadium.

You're mixing up the secular state of Israel with the religion of Judaism. And what's worse you're using your confusion and ignorance as a weapon of mass destruction in your war against the Bible. How many times do I have to tell you my man, please stay on topic. The dealings of and with the secular state of Israel ARE NOT WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THIS FORUM. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Orthodox Jews believe the Old Testament is the inspired, inerrant Word of Jehovah - The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. If you want to get into this then maybe, just maybe you could stay on topic.

Fly straight airman, or you're going to crash and burn...again

Sorry ... again ... the rules are a moving target, but I'll eventually hit that darn target. I'm learning ... I think. I throw myself at the mercy of the court.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

The middle east is hot, isn't it? Very troubling.

But to be fair. The Jewish Bible inerrantists are fading in Israel. They may soon lose their free ride state welfare, and have to serve in the military ... for the first time. (Where they may get to live the inerrant "kill everything that takes breath" in their Torah.)

And Israel is becoming ever more secular. "Running off to other" is also in keeping with their inerrant Torah.

Yet not long ago I saw Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu actually say God gave them the land in the Bible (they don't have it all yet).

And THAT'S more than a "flaming" statement ... backed by real nukes ... and Jericho intercontinental ballistic missiles, to deliver them.

Inerrantism has bearing in the world ... and not always good ... like would thought to be expected.

Inerrantism is just one way to use the Bible. And it can be misused and dangerous.

The miracle of God is required to use the miracle of the Bible properly.

Your post reveals that you have serious problems with how Jehovah worked through Israel. You say "It's not God I have a problem with, it's His fan club," but since the only knowledge we have of God is that which his "fan club" has written, there is no way to "disconnect" the two. This glaring contradiction regularly surfaces in a number of your posts.

You say you have "no problem with God," but how would you know? Perhaps God is "My Favorite Martian." How could you dispute that? Perhaps God is a murderous and savage pedophile. How would you know? Perhaps God really hates WASPs, like yourself, how would you know?

You take issue with "Jewish Bible inerrantists." Perhaps they are the only ones on earth with the "real" God. How would you know? You have a problem with them, and now you have a problem with God! You like to make comments about how Abraham "knew God without the Bible," but perhaps God really spoke to him and promised him land that Israel does not now possess. How would you know?

Maybe God wants to use Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu these days to fulfill his promise to Abraham. You seem to think that's a little crazy. Therefore you have a serious problem with God. How would you know?

Since all you have is your own "fantasy God" who can can be anything you want him to be ... who is to say what this God of yours should be? You have made Him up, so how can we even discuss Him? Once you discredit the Bible, your God can be anything you dream up that day. Your imaginary God has never told us what He likes or does not like, so nothing you say about God has any value. Today your God is good, tomorrow your God is bad, who can know which day it is?

How can there be a "miracle of using the Bible properly," since it was written by fallen, failing, errant men from a time irrelevant to the 21st century? It's about as pertinent today in Obamaland as the American constitution. Why waste time even discussing it? awareness, we have gone around this massive molehill ad infinitum. You really don't listen to anything that is said in support of the Bible. You are only here to poke jabs at those who do. It's all a big game with you. It's called flaming. You are just doing what trolls do on internet forums. You are good at it. You get lots of attention. You like to get away with things.

To me it's real simple: no Bible -- no God. You can't have it both ways.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Your post reveals that you have serious problems with how Jehovah worked through Israel. You say "It's not God I have a problem with, it's His fan club," but since the only knowledge we have of God is that which his "fan club" has written, there is no way to "disconnect" the two. This glaring contradiction regularly surfaces in a number of your posts.

You say you have "no problem with God," but how would you know? Perhaps God is "My Favorite Martian." How could you dispute that? Perhaps God is a murderous and savage pedophile. How would you know? Perhaps God really hates WASPs, like yourself, how would you know?

You take issue with "Jewish Bible inerrantists." Perhaps they are the only ones on earth with the "real" God. How would you know? You have a problem with them, and now you have a problem with God! You like to make comments about how Abraham "knew God without the Bible," but perhaps God really spoke to him and promised him land that Israel does not now possess. How would you know?

Maybe God wants to use Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu these days to fulfill his promise to Abraham. You seem to think that's a little crazy. Therefore you have a serious problem with God. How would you know?

Since all you have is your own "fantasy God" who can can be anything you want him to be ... who is to say what this God of yours should be? You have made Him up, so how can we even discuss Him? Once you discredit the Bible, your God can be anything you dream up that day. Your imaginary God has never told us what He likes or does not like, so nothing you say about God has any value. Today your God is good, tomorrow your God is bad, who can know which day it is?

How can there be a "miracle of using the Bible properly," since it was written by fallen, failing, errant men from a time irrelevant to the 21st century? It's about as pertinent today in Obamaland as the American constitution. Why waste time even discussing it? awareness, we have gone around this massive molehill ad infinitum. You really don't listen to anything that is said in support of the Bible. You are only here to poke jabs at those who do. It's all a big game with you. It's called flaming. You are just doing what trolls do on internet forums. You are good at it. You get lots of attention. You like to get away with things.

To me it's real simple: no Bible -- no God. You can't have it both ways.

WOW! and again WOW! Talk about a post too hot to touch. This one takes the cake.

It's an outstanding post tho ... really great.

But if I respond, or try to respond, I'll just get in more trouble.

Yer playing me bro Ohio ... just paying me back ... I guess I deserve it.

But you did make me realize that I have problems with ALL of God's fan club ... starting with Adam ... when I was only thinking of His fan club in this life.

[OBW]

Harold,

There are a lot of posts after the one I am quoting, this is the thing that stands out most to me in all of them.

Originally Posted by awareness

I agree the problem is not the Bible, but is how it's used. And ya can't get a higher authority then to use the Bible to justify what you want to do (like the formation of the Southern Baptist church, who used the Bible to justify the holding of slaves.)

This part is very sound, including the parenthetical.

But the parenthetical is also a problem to you.

It is true that many people, back when slavery was an existing institution that was under fire, used the Bible to both justify and deny slavery.

While the Bible briefly describes a peaceful utopia in its first two chapters, the fall into darkness that followed and the slow move of God to give man the opportunity to return to righteousness in obedience to Him began with Abraham.

He made us with free will and continues our free will to this day. So the institutions of man, dark as they may be, were seldom simply edicted away. Instead, a directive of righteousness was placed on us, and sometimes directly upon our institutions.

When we get to the NT, the statements concerning slavery were few, but were (from our present perspective) difficult to maintain while maintaining the institution. Yet God did not insist upon no slavery, but rather upon a level of righteousness that we now consider to be virtually in opposition to it. It took 1600+ years for some of the earliest nationwide stands against it, and still more before it was abolished through war in the US.

If anything, the Bible has provided the direction to move from the worst of that institution to the place where it is now considered abhorrent by most.

Still people will poke and prod at the Bible looking for ways to justify the unjustifiable. Some of it is social evil. Some of it is spiritual snobbery. Some of it is an attempt to personal gain that many would consider the Bible as otherwise denying.

In all this, the Bible makes no error. God stands as righteous in it all and his ways holy.

So I rephrase and repeat something I said way back at the beginning of this discussion: The Bible is inerrant but is read and misread, used and abused by the people who read it. The Bible is righteous but is often chopped-up and made to appear to support the schemes of the unrighteous.

And it is against these kinds of errors that John wrote that we have an anointing and don't need teachers. He wasn't actually saying we don't need teachers at all, but that it should be evident what is outside of acceptable teaching that claims a base in scripture and in God.