Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

Originally Posted by Ohio

Where do you get your info? You have been so deceived. It was the Obama Admin that erected those cages in order to protect children in custody at the border. That first (and famous) picture you saw was taken in 2014. Do investigate your facts before you post.

Your "justification" for abortion could also be summarized by the following letter:

Dear Love, it's a jungle out there. People die all the time. You could be struck by a drunk driver, or you could be a victim of random violence. There are thousands of cancers and diseases out there which could make the rest of your life so painful and miserable. You wouldn't want that to happen, would you? Or you could catch the Covid stage 3. So horrible.

So let me recommend that you end things right away. Why wait another day? Why should your life continue with so many dangers out there ready to get you? Please make the right "choice." By ending your own life soon, you might even be saving another. How dare you "inconvenience" others by being forced to care for you? You wouldn't want that would you? Wouldn't the world be a better place with more brave souls like you making the right "choice" today?

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...obama-adminis/

Lmao. Yes, Obama Administration did have those cages, but they weren’t in danger and they weren’t separated from families. If you look up official documents of Trump’s executive orders in Federal Register, it is already clear that he separated them. Not Obama Administration.

You’re so misinformed. You watch too much Fox News = Fake News

Sorry, but you’re just so ignorant. Boohoo, mama didn’t give you enough love? You’re just a bitter old man with not much life force left to go. Only in too deep with a book club written by men.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Love

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...obama-adminis/

Lmao. Yes, Obama Administration did have those cages, but they weren’t in danger and they weren’t separated from families. If you look up official documents of Trump’s executive orders in Federal Register, it is already clear that he separated them. Not Obama Administration.

You’re so misinformed. You watch too much Fox News = Fake News

Sorry, but you’re just so ignorant. Boohoo, mama didn’t give you enough love? You’re just a bitter old man with not much life force left to go. Only in too deep with a book club written by men.

Thank God your fact checkers and sources of truth are not written by men.

[SerenityLives]

I have a general question for the men on this thread who support anti-abortion: What are your views concerning the soul- does it begin at the conception of the sperm and the egg, or once the baby is born, or somewhere in between? Now I have heard stories of people who have provided testimonials they swear they were consciously aware or have a distant memory of being in the “dark” and then having some memories of seeing a doctor’s face when they were born. I’m just wondering if your perceptions of the soul being there in the mass conglomeration of cells has anything to do with how your views on terminating a pregnancy. Personally, I feel I am more middle ground- if the fetus is in the first trimester, I dont see anything morally wrong with a woman deciding it is better for the baby if she is bringing it into a cruel environment, but at third trimester, thats when it gets tricky. And it is very wrong personally for abortion clinics to abort a fetus at full term or if the baby comes out crying, to let it die and suffer. Like that is murder. But it’s not murder if in a petri dish, for example IVF, for the glob of cells to be terminated.

https://youtu.be/yRA0KMCEP2o. here is a video on pro life vs pro choice. Both sides are civil and make good arguments, showing that abortion is not so much a black and white issue- personal experience has a lot to do with how one views the issue. Note: many of the people in the video are women, so its nice to have some female perspectives on the issue since they are the ones carrying the baby most of the time (unless you are trans)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I have a general question for the men on this thread who support anti-abortion: What are your views concerning the soul- does it begin at the conception of the sperm and the egg, or once the baby is born, or somewhere in between?

I believe the soul begins at conception. I don't view conception as merely biological, but also the moment that God breathes life, a soul into the unborn child. (Gen 2.7)

As far as legislation goes, I would like to see the child's heartbeat used as a marker for legality, with abortion illegal beyond that point. The heart beat of the unborn child is clearly and easily measurable.

[UntoHim]

Hey "Love".

If you're going to post further, you will have to register for membership. If, by chance, you are already registered, then I'm going to have ask you to sign in and post under your registered name. Thanks.
-

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Hey "Love".

If you're going to post further, you will have to register for membership. If, by chance, you are already registered, then I'm going to have ask you to sign in and post under your registered name. Thanks.
-

Sounds to me like "Love" may be already registered and may have been busted for faking a second identity. Just a guess.

Either way, let me suggest that some other name be selected that is better suited to the poster's character than "Love."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sounds to me like "Love" may be already registered and may have been busted for faking a second identity. Just a guess.

Either way, let me suggest that some other name be selected that is better suited to the poster's character than "Love."

So you dislike what Love says so you cast aspersions upon him/her, like He/She is a member deceiving us by signing in as a guest.

And should you really put down Love? Better go back and study 1 Corinthians 13 again.

If I didn't know that you think you are holding fast to the Bible, I would never be able to understand your biases.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I believe the soul begins at conception. I don't view conception as merely biological, but also the moment that God breathes life, a soul into the unborn child. (Gen 2.7)

But the baby doesn't breath until it comes out. That's the breath that makes the baby a living soul.

Gen 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.*

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But the baby doesn't breath until it comes out. That's the breath that makes the baby a living soul.

Gen 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.*

That was true for Adam and Eve who were created as adults, but not for the rest of us. Too many verses about God knowing us in the womb.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That was true for Adam and Eve who were created as adults, but not for the rest of us. Too many verses about God knowing us in the womb.

God knowing us in the womb, but my question is “when” in the womb because it’s a full nine months. Since you believe a woman cannot abort a baby once it has a heartbeat, then it would be about 5.5-6 weeks or one and a half months of first trimester that a woman can abort but not after. And it’s easy for technology nowadays but what if we had no technology and cant tell when the heartbeat occurs? What then?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That was true for Adam and Eve who were created as adults, but not for the rest of us. Too many verses about God knowing us in the womb.

God knows every atom too, all the time. And Gen 2:7 is a more valid probability than God breathed into non-breathing cells at conception. Just admit that you don't know when it becomes a soul. You seem to want it to be a soul at the dinner before conception ... cuz Jeremiah 1:5 says, Before I formed you in the womb I knew you.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Love

Sorry, but you’re just so ignorant. Boohoo, mama didn’t give you enough love? You’re just a bitter old man with not much life force left to go. Only in too deep with a book club written by men.

What's in us colors what we see. It seems you know bitterness. You might ask yourself why that is and if there's a harmful root of bitterness that needs dealt with inside you . . .

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

What's in us colors what we see. It seems you know bitterness. You might ask yourself why that is and if there's a harmful root of bitterness that needs dealt with inside you . . .

I think you’ll have to forgive Love. From what I can psychoanalyze from Love’s retort to Ohio is that he/she means we can all have a little more love and compassion, including Ohio. . And that somehow, our deep seated outlooks on abortion can be framed from what we experienced as a child ourselves. It is natural for an adult who was abused/neglected as a child can have particular high emotional sensitivity and empathy to protect the unborn babies in the world because they can feel the helplessness that they themselves can relate to. And to have less compassion for the women because of how their mothers failed them.Now, all this happens on a subconscious level so you guys might not agree or not take what I say at face value, but that’s okay. I know we all probably have some “mommy issues”, hence why the subject of abortion is especially touchy and tensions can arise. Now I’m not sure your own experiences but this is interesting; maybe you and Ohio can take a look at what colors your own views about abortion. I know that for me, it’s inclusive to what I experienced from my aunt’s decision to abort her child with Down syndrome due to her decision not to leave the child suffering in a society that looks down upon and has not enough resources to help those with Down- Syndrome (I’m not talking about the U.S) and some friends’ experiences with abortion, not due to “convenience”, but due to consideration for the quality of life they feel they can provide for the child. So Anti-abortion/prolofers and pro-choice have more in common than you and I think. Ultimately, it boils down to less suffering for both the mother and child, just on different aspects and degrees.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I think you’ll have to forgive Love. From what I can psychoanalyze from Love’s retort to Ohio is that he/she means we can all have a little more love and compassion, including Ohio. . And that somehow, our deep seated outlooks on abortion can be framed from what we experienced as a child ourselves. It is natural for an adult who was abused/neglected as a child can have particular high emotional sensitivity and empathy to protect the unborn babies in the world because they can feel the helplessness that they themselves can relate to. And to have less compassion for the women because of how their mothers failed them.Now, all this happens on a subconscious level so you guys might not agree or not take what I say at face value, but that’s okay. I know we all probably have some “mommy issues”, hence why the subject of abortion is especially touchy and tensions can arise. Now I’m not sure your own experiences but this is interesting; maybe you and Ohio can take a look at what colors your own views about abortion. I know that for me, it’s inclusive to what I experienced from my aunt’s decision to abort her child with Down syndrome due to her decision not to leave the child suffering in a society that looks down upon and has not enough resources to help those with Down- Syndrome (I’m not talking about the U.S) and some friends’ experiences with abortion, not due to “convenience”, but due to consideration for the quality of life they feel they can provide for the child. So Anti-abortion/prolofers and pro-choice have more in common than you and I think. Ultimately, it boils down to less suffering for both the mother and child, just on different aspects and degrees.

I helped raise a Down-Syndrome child. That was never easy or convenient, but definitely rewarding, and the decision was never regretted because it was pleasing to God our Creator.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I think you’ll have to forgive Love.

Be glad to. Where was that post with their apology?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Be glad to. Where was that post with their apology?

As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.

That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.

Wait, wait, wait, where does the Bible say "you have to forgive no matter what" (which is what "no apology" implies)?

Jesus says forgive 70x7 "if they repent":

Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

Jesus says in Matthew 18 that if you have a problem with someone, go talk to them. If they don't "hear" (i.e. repent) He doesn't say "you have to forgive them". He says to ratchet it up and bring more people, and then tell the church, and then treat them as unbelievers if they don't repent. He never says "forgive no matter what".

Forgiveness is always predicated on repentance. That's how God forgives us in Christ (when we acknowledge our sins and repent of them).

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.

Oh c'mon. Even atheists are able to forgive.