Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

What's in us colors what we see. It seems you know bitterness. You might ask yourself why that is and if there's a harmful root of bitterness that needs dealt with inside you . . .

I think you’ll have to forgive Love. From what I can psychoanalyze from Love’s retort to Ohio is that he/she means we can all have a little more love and compassion, including Ohio. . And that somehow, our deep seated outlooks on abortion can be framed from what we experienced as a child ourselves. It is natural for an adult who was abused/neglected as a child can have particular high emotional sensitivity and empathy to protect the unborn babies in the world because they can feel the helplessness that they themselves can relate to. And to have less compassion for the women because of how their mothers failed them.Now, all this happens on a subconscious level so you guys might not agree or not take what I say at face value, but that’s okay. I know we all probably have some “mommy issues”, hence why the subject of abortion is especially touchy and tensions can arise. Now I’m not sure your own experiences but this is interesting; maybe you and Ohio can take a look at what colors your own views about abortion. I know that for me, it’s inclusive to what I experienced from my aunt’s decision to abort her child with Down syndrome due to her decision not to leave the child suffering in a society that looks down upon and has not enough resources to help those with Down- Syndrome (I’m not talking about the U.S) and some friends’ experiences with abortion, not due to “convenience”, but due to consideration for the quality of life they feel they can provide for the child. So Anti-abortion/prolofers and pro-choice have more in common than you and I think. Ultimately, it boils down to less suffering for both the mother and child, just on different aspects and degrees.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I think you’ll have to forgive Love. From what I can psychoanalyze from Love’s retort to Ohio is that he/she means we can all have a little more love and compassion, including Ohio. . And that somehow, our deep seated outlooks on abortion can be framed from what we experienced as a child ourselves. It is natural for an adult who was abused/neglected as a child can have particular high emotional sensitivity and empathy to protect the unborn babies in the world because they can feel the helplessness that they themselves can relate to. And to have less compassion for the women because of how their mothers failed them.Now, all this happens on a subconscious level so you guys might not agree or not take what I say at face value, but that’s okay. I know we all probably have some “mommy issues”, hence why the subject of abortion is especially touchy and tensions can arise. Now I’m not sure your own experiences but this is interesting; maybe you and Ohio can take a look at what colors your own views about abortion. I know that for me, it’s inclusive to what I experienced from my aunt’s decision to abort her child with Down syndrome due to her decision not to leave the child suffering in a society that looks down upon and has not enough resources to help those with Down- Syndrome (I’m not talking about the U.S) and some friends’ experiences with abortion, not due to “convenience”, but due to consideration for the quality of life they feel they can provide for the child. So Anti-abortion/prolofers and pro-choice have more in common than you and I think. Ultimately, it boils down to less suffering for both the mother and child, just on different aspects and degrees.

I helped raise a Down-Syndrome child. That was never easy or convenient, but definitely rewarding, and the decision was never regretted because it was pleasing to God our Creator.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I think you’ll have to forgive Love.

Be glad to. Where was that post with their apology?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Be glad to. Where was that post with their apology?

As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.

That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

As Christians, we’re supoosed to forgive everyone even if they don’t apologize.

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.

Wait, wait, wait, where does the Bible say "you have to forgive no matter what" (which is what "no apology" implies)?

Jesus says forgive 70x7 "if they repent":

Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

Jesus says in Matthew 18 that if you have a problem with someone, go talk to them. If they don't "hear" (i.e. repent) He doesn't say "you have to forgive them". He says to ratchet it up and bring more people, and then tell the church, and then treat them as unbelievers if they don't repent. He never says "forgive no matter what".

Forgiveness is always predicated on repentance. That's how God forgives us in Christ (when we acknowledge our sins and repent of them).

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Wait, wait, wait, where does the Bible say "you have to forgive no matter what" (which is what "no apology" implies)?

Jesus says forgive 70x7 "if they repent":

Luke 17:3
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.

Jesus says in Matthew 18 that if you have a problem with someone, go talk to them. If they don't "hear" (i.e. repent) He doesn't say "you have to forgive them". He says to ratchet it up and bring more people, and then tell the church, and then treat them as unbelievers if they don't repent. He never says "forgive no matter what".

Forgiveness is always predicated on repentance. That's how God forgives us in Christ (when we acknowledge our sins and repent of them).

Brother Trapped, aren't you combining two gospels to form one of your own? :

Mat 18:21* Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?*
Mat 18:22* Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.*

It says nothing about repentance.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by awareness

Brother Trapped, aren't you combining two gospels to form one of your own?

Mat 18:21* Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?*
Mat 18:22* Jesus saith unto him, [COLOR=Red]I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.*

It says nothing about repentance.

What on earth do you mean about combining two gospels to form my own? I quoted directly from Luke. You're throwing out part of a gospel to create your own.

Luke 17:3-4
3 So watch yourselves.“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent[/B], forgive them.
4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

The parallel passage in Matthew does not have the phrase "and if they repent" but it immediately follows the passage I quoted in my post concerning "if they hear you", which is acknowledgement, godly sorrow, repentance.

Repentance is repeatedly the requirement for forgiveness.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mark 1:4
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

That's the standard, but without Christ's life in us and living through us, genuine forgiveness is pretty much impossible.

Oh c'mon. Even atheists are able to forgive.