Nigel Tomes - LSM's Unorthodox Satanology

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then you agree that God created Lucifer.

Got it. Not good is not created by God. Where did they come from?

They partook of the darkness? Where did it come from? Who created it?

Yes, and Lucifer was good in the beginning. Then out of his own free will, Lucifer sinned and darkness entered him.

The mistake in thought you're making is that you're making sin a created thing. Cold isn't a property, it's the absence of a property. Heat however is a tangible thing.

The same is with light. Light is created, darkness (sin) is not.

You ask "where does darkness come form?". "Come from" implies a created property confined to time, space, and matter. Darkness is a void or vacuum and isn't a measurable tangible thing that requires "creating" therefore sin did not "come from" anywhere. It's just the absence of light or God's presence. You're making an assumption and concluding darkness and sin are from the same substance as God's Word (light and good).

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Got it, God did not create everyone. Who then is this other creator you are alluding to?

Sorry, I missed what part of the discussion this last bit was referring to.

Fair enough, but whoever created Hitler, Stalin, and Nero, that is not a laptop, that is life and matter from nothingness.

God created Adam and Eve, He created them in His image. This image is what we refer to as the soul. God created this image (the raw material in my laptop analogy) but He is not the creator of the end result of a soul that chooses to partake in darkness. Therefore God is not responsible for the end result that is Hitler, Stalin (or the laptop).

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Oh, the old guns don't kill people, people kill people defense. I manufactured the gun, lobbied for all kinds of laws which make it very difficult to trace the gun and easy for it to be bought on the street in untraceable bills, and in fingerprint resistant casing so you don't leave fingerprints, but I'm not responsible for it being used to kill people or commit a crime. Got it.

But God didn't manufacture darkness and He doesn't lobby for sin. He's not responsible for our choice to live a life apart from Him. By saying God "created " evil men, is saying that He created evil to be carried out by these men. He did not because this is not who He is.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Nope, you didn't read my post carefully. I point out that by creating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil God made it so that the minute we disobey him (and all evil is rebellion against God) at that minute we are unable to destroy anything other than mortal flesh which compared to eternity is like destroying pixels on a video game. You can choose to have an evil heart and that will be revealed, but you cannot harm the soul or the spirit.

We are all born with an evil heart, it's not a choice we got to make because none of us were born out of God's very substance or Word, only Jesus. We were born our of the will of man in God's image along with the result of fallen men (John 1:13). That doesn't mean our parents "created" us from nothingness but out of our parents we were inherently born into darkness. God did not create any of us with darkness in his mind because what He creates is only good. We were the result of God's created image tainted with the result of humanities sin.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Fair enough, those things occurred as a result of man choosing to disobey God. But God created a universe where man could make that choice, being omniscient He also foresaw that would happen. Which again, is why the tree of Knowledge is described as a tree created by God, a good tree, and one that was placed in the garden by God. That tree protects the creation from the potential evil in rebelling against God.

He didn't foresee that it "would" happen. That's an assumption. We can say that God foresaw it "could" happen. "Would" renders free-will null and void. "Could", however, does not.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So then He is not Lord? Hitler can kill millions of people running this marathon and God is like "hands off" I only care about the finish line, not what takes place during the race?

He cares but that does not mean He will interfere. Omnipotence allows God to take action or restrict His presence and part of that hinges on the free-will He chose to give us.

ZNP, I'm familiar with these beliefs because I had a friend that was raised in a Christian household but became a eastern mystic later on. He had the same pantheistic views concerning God as you do. It makes sense because the LC's are a blend of eastern mysticism and biblical doctrine. But ultimately the belief that God "created" sin and evil men is a subtle and crafty attack on His character. The further you take this belief, the further you get away from a loving Father into a god that's universal indifferent "force".

God is love and there is no darkness in Him. Therefore because darkness is not in Him, it could not have come from Him.