Important Announcement regarding the Alternative Views Subforum

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It would be good if you knew who and what was behind your "collective identity" on the LEFT.

Bro Ohio has discovered that the liberals have changed into the LEFT.

And it's true that parties change. Example : Maybe the republicans were once against slavery, but now they have become the RIGHT. And now they are white nationalists, and white supremacists.

The demmies aren't what they use to be, and neither are the pubbies.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Bro Ohio has discovered that the liberals have changed into the LEFT.

And it's true that parties change. Example : Maybe the republicans were once against slavery, but now they have become the RIGHT. And now they are white nationalists, and white supremacists.

The demmies aren't what they use to be, and neither are the pubbies.

I wonder why you have no facts to rebut history, only snarky mockings and insidious claims to deflect.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I wonder why you have no facts to rebut history, only snarky mockings and insidious claims to deflect.

Yeah awareness! Mister Ohio was about to tell us who and what is behind the hated LEFT. He claims special insider priveleged KNOWLEDGE. He's gonna tell us who the Puppet Master is and how he controls the LEFT with his wiles. And you interrupted the flow. Go ahead Ohio give us the BIG REVEAL that puts us in our place. Don't defraud us by withholding the knowledge we need. Of course, Paul said that knowledge puffs up but love builds up. Not sure Paul would approve. But you probably know that too. So don't let awareness distract you hold forth brother! Feed his sheep!

[awareness]

Meet the ‘Exvangelicals’: Young Christians are fleeing the church for getting in bed with Trump

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/mee...ing-bed-trump/

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Meet the ‘Exvangelicals’: Young Christians are fleeing the church for getting in bed with Trump

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/mee...ing-bed-trump/

And they should.

In the church the message must be that Jesus is Lord. Our oneness has nothing to do with your political thoughts, leanings, or how you vote.

If it is shameful for a Christian leader to become a pom pom girl for Trump then it is equally shameful if they did that for Hillary. This demonstrates a complete lack of vision on their part.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Here is a quote from the LEFT

“Rudeness can be extremely politically useful. There are arguments to be made over who constitutes a valid target, but when crude obscenity is directed at figures of power, their prestige can be tarnished, even in the eyes of the most reverent of subjects,” wrote Amber A'Lee Frost, a co-host of Chapo Trap House, in an essay for Current Affairs. “Caricature is designed to exaggerate, and therefore make more noticeable, people’s central defining qualities, and can thus be illuminating even at its most indelicate.”

Rudeness? Obscenity? So then President Trump must be the King of the LEFT. Or maybe you and Ohio don't think Trump's rude when he says stuff like "You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever" to Megyn Kelly.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Meet the ‘Exvangelicals’: Young Christians are fleeing the church for getting in bed with Trump

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/mee...ing-bed-trump/

Hardcore Trumpers will dismiss this as fake news. Right Ohio?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I wonder why you have no facts to rebut history, only snarky mockings and insidious claims to deflect the facts.

Like I said . . .

[Ohio]

One time Democratic Presidential front runner, a total con job, like many of her peers, ran into the Trump Wall of Truth and crashed. As one writer wrote . . .

Warren's sins are twofold: she is a shameless cultural appropriator, whose fake claim to native-American ancestry for personal gain has been every bit fraudulent as a high-end art forgery, and outright theft. More egregious, she is the wrong skin color, siphoning 2020 oxygen from the likes of Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, and Michele Obama.

As Howie Carr wrote in the Boston Herald, “What an ignominious end for Harvard Law School’s “first woman of color,” and just because it turned out that Elizabeth Warren’s color was white -- alabaster in fact”.

Once again Trump "baited this basher" into proving her identity. And as PJ Media’s Michael Walsh elaborates on the NY Times Warren hit-piece, partially fingering Donald Trump for Warren’s demise . . .

That dastardly Trump, getting the hapless Warren to fall right into his trap! Couldn't she see that simply asserting her native-American identity was enough? That there was no need for DNA tests and all that messy "racial science" when all you had to do was name it and claim it?

Has anyone seen that ever growing list of Trump-bashers who seem to be crashing daily. I have to believe God is still behind the scenes working. Reminds me of God's blessing to Abraham ...

I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you. -- Gen 12.3

Say what you will about Trump's past failures, but he definitely has blessed Israel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Rudeness? Obscenity? So then President Trump must be the King of the LEFT. Or maybe you and Ohio don't think Trump's rude when he says stuff like "You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever" to Megyn Kelly.

I think that Trump is very rude and has reaped what he has sown. I also think that many on the left are obsessed with attacking all things Trump, and I also think there is a lot of hypocrisy and fake offense at his rudeness from those that are equally rude.

To my knowledge Melania has not been rude to anyone, doesn't stop them from behaving despicably toward her as well.

Likewise, I am not aware of anything Eric has done to deserve the constant spew of insults he gets.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

One time Democratic Presidential front runner, a total con job, like many of her peers, ran into the Trump Wall of Truth and crashed. As one writer wrote . . .
Once again Trump "baited this basher" into proving her identity. And as PJ Media’s Michael Walsh elaborates on the NY Times Warren hit-piece, partially fingering Donald Trump for Warren’s demise . . .

This is true. When she claimed to be a native American it seemed quite believable to me, she appeared to look mixed, and she came from Oklahoma, it seemed reasonable. But the DNA test convicts her on several levels. First, she has less native american blood than the average American, if she can make this claim everyone in the US can. Second, as the representatives of Native Americans has pointed out, that is not the test. To claim to be Native American requires that you were raised in that culture. She made this lie as a way to get into Harvard. In my eyes she has been exposed as a bald faced liar. No respect for her.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Has anyone seen that ever growing list of Trump-bashers who seem to be crashing daily.

No. I have not seen that list. The only "list" I have seen is the number of Trump associates who have resigned, been fired, been indicted, or pled guilty to crimes.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have to believe God is still behind the scenes working. Reminds me of God's blessing to Abraham ...

Does not remind me of that at all.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Say what you will about Trump's past failures, but he definitely has blessed Israel.

Fair enough. Trump has blessed Israel.

[awareness]

Okay, you seem to be hung up on me refuting your facts. It's not that I can't refute them, it's that I don't have the will. It seems to be an exercise in futility. But okay, if you insist.

Originally Posted by Ohio

How many times did I tell you that all politicians are liars and crooks. If you make that the standard, there would be no leaders.

But Trump is a liar on steroids. In fact, he's credited with the reason for a new Pinocchio rating. Earning the coveted The Bottomless Pinocchio.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Accusing Trump of being a felon is a serious charge. Now you have become a "compulsive liar" too.

Violations of campaign finance law is a felony. Trump's got two of them : Stormy and McDougal. Sorry. No lying there.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Perhaps you are finally starting to get the message?

I know. With all the smoke and mirrors it's hard to see.

Originally Posted by Ohio

More lies. Has this become your compulsive habit?

I see you've been taking lessons from Trump : accuse others of what you are doing. Now Trump is calling everyone liars, like Cohen and Comey ; and also Pecker. So who's lying?

Originally Posted by Ohio

I really wish you would get your history right. Study the plight of Native Americans and African Americans under the Presidency of Andrew Jackson and the Democratic Party. IF YOU DARE. Read what Jackson did to the Indians. Did you know that not one single Republican ever owned a slave? Both the Northern and the Southern Democrats stood against the emancipation of the Black man in the 13th Amend.
The crimes against Indians and Blacks were NOT committed by "White Man" or "Americans" but the Democrat Party.

This is where it seemed to be an exercise in futility. Your superimposition of your bipolar politics shades your views on history. Since you believe that democrats are bad, and republicans are good, every bad thing in history had to be done by democrats, and every good thing by republicans. I think you're just caught up in confirmation bias and don't recognize it.

As I've pointed out already, that means, that by your bipolar logic, our slaveholding founders must have been democrats. That's how laughable your bipolar view of history is.

And I hate Andrew Jackson. By your bipolar logic that makes me a republican.

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's bad enough that your facts of history are all wrong, but when you repeat them they become your lies too.

Okay. You've successfully changed the subject from our lying crooked President to me. Good one bro Ohio.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Same goes with Israel and the plight of the Palestinians. It is the Iranians who are committing genocide on the Palestinian people. What Hamas has done to the Gaza strip is horrible. Go ask those people who treats them better, Israel of Hamas.

Now you've struck a nerve. Any Christian that supports or excuses what Israel is doing to the Palestinians, is giving Jesus a bad name, and isn't worth the name Christian.

[Ohio]

Bombshell letter from decorated FBI Supervisory Agent written to District Judge Emmet Sullivan, planning to sentence Michael Flynn on Tuesday, exposes FBI and Mueller corruption, specifically that Andrew McCabe went after Michael Flynn as payback revenge.

Former FBI SSA Robyn Gritz’s Letter To Judge Sullivan in Support Of Flynn

Exerpts of letter:

Andrew McCabe: I believe I have a unique inside view of the mannerisms surrounding Andrew McCabe, other FBI Executive Management and Former Director Mueller, as well as the unethical and coercive tactics they use, not to seek the truth, but to coerce pleas or admissions to end the pain, as I call it. They destroy lives for their own agendas instead of seeking the truth for the American people. Candor is something that should be encouraged and used by leadership to have necessary and continued improvement. Under Mueller, it was seen as a threat and viciously opposed by those he pulled up in the chain of command.

I am explaining this because numerous Agents have expressed the need for you to know McCabe’s and Mueller’s pattern of “target and destroy” has been utilized on many others, without regard for policies and laws. I, myself, am a casualty of this reprehensible behavior and I have spoken to well over 150 other FBI individuals who are casualties as well.

Unethical and dishonest investigative tactics: Throughout the last year, I have kept abreast of the revelations surrounding anything related to Mike’s case. I believe, from my years at the FBI and in exposing corruption and discrimination, the circumstances surrounding the targeting, investigation, leaking, and coercion of him to plea are all consistent with the unethical process I and many others have witnessed at the FBI. The charge which Mike Flynn plead to was the result of deception, intimidation, and bias/agenda. Simply, Mike is being branded a convicted felon due to an unethical and dishonest investigation by people who were malicious, vindictive, and corrupt. They wished to silence Mike, like they had once silenced me.

The American people have read the Strzok/Page text messages, the conflicting testimony and lack of candor statements of former Director Comey, the perceived overstepping of the reasonable scope of the Special Prosecutor’s investigation, the extensive unethical, untruthful, and outright illegal behavior of Andrew McCabe, to include slanderous statements against Flynn, and the facts found within FOIA released documents and Congressional testimony. As a former/retired Agent, I have combed through every piece of information regarding Mike’s case, as if I was combing through evidence in the hundreds of cases I have successfully handled while in the FBI.

The publicly reported Brady material alone, in this case, outweighs any statement given by any FBI Agent (we now know at least one FD-302 was changed), Special Prosecutor investigator report, and any other party still aggressively seeking that this case remain and be sentenced as a felony. Quite simply, I cannot see justice being served by branding LtG. Michael Flynn a convicted felon, when the truth is still being revealed while policies, ethics, and laws have been violated by those pursuing this case.

We now know all FBI employees involved in Mike Flynn’s case have either been fired, forced to resign or forced to retire because of their excessive lack of candor, punitive biases, leaking of information, and extensive cover-up of their deeds.

I'm not a prophet, but I predict Judge Emmet Sullivan will overturn Flynn's charges, expose Mueller, and initiate a criminal contempt investigation of Flynn's prosecutors in the case.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Has anyone seen that ever growing list of Trump-bashers who seem to be crashing daily.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No. I have not seen that list. The only "list" I have seen is the number of Trump associates who have resigned, been fired, been indicted, or pled guilty to crimes.

Here is that interesting list ...

Trump schadenfreude list

The list is growing daily. Some seem a stretch, others are hard to deny.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Violations of campaign finance law is a felony. Trump's got two of them : Stormy and McDougal. Sorry. No lying there.

Sorry, but you've been lied to by the media. They deserve this: Earning the coveted The Bottomless Pinocchio.

Obama faced a fine for Campaign Finance violations. Did he pay it?

John Edwards paid off a scandal just like Trump. He beat the charge easily. All Trump has to prove is that he paid the hush money to protect his reputation. But the media has convinced you that Michael Cohen is an honest witness. Good luck with that.

Wait a minute here. What happened to Russian Collusion? What happened to Obstruction of Justice? What happened to vindication for Comey? You and the Media have been crying foul for two years over that. Muller will find Collusion! Muller will find Obstruction! What happened? Tell me who is lying here?

And after all this -- $50 million and two years of Mueller Witch Hunts -- all they got is Stormy and the Bunny? And Stormy has to pay Trump's legal bills? And Avenatti is broke and discredited? So much for creepy Porn Lawyers. And it was you who told me that 98.6% of Lawyers give the rest of them a bad name. You should know better!

Avenatti 2020, your last hope for redemption, has gone down in flames.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here is that interesting list ...

Trump schadenfreude list

The list is growing daily. Some seem a stretch, others are hard to deny.

Trump's got a lot of tweeting to do to attack everyone on that list ... 10 times harder.

Good. It will keep him busy.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry, but you've been lied to by the media.

But the media is not lying to you? How is it that you are so special, getting privileged media all others don't get?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here is that interesting list ...

Trump schadenfreude list

The list is growing daily. Some seem a stretch, others are hard to deny.

This is an ugly list. Paul says that love does not keep a record of wrongs. This list demonstrates that Trump and His supporters do not have love, it is a hateful list.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But the media is not lying to you? How is it that you are so special, getting privileged media all others don't get?

Here's a guy who has studied history, it's only 4 minutes long . . .

D'Souza spars with student over "white privilege"

awareness, you seem to be interested in the plight of Native Americans and African Americans. You owe it to yourself to research the actual facts of history, and not how history has been rewritten to fit an agenda.

This is essentially what I had to do with church history after I left the LC. I read the actual events of church history, so that I could be purged of the leaven of Lee.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wait a minute here What happened to Russian Collusion? What happened to Obstruction of Justice? What happened to vindication for Comey? You and the Media have been crying foul for two years over that. Muller will find Collusion! Muller will find Obstruction! What happened? Tell me who is lying here?.

Mueller details how Roger Stone, who the special counsel notes was in frequent contact with Donald Trump and senior campaign officials, directed Corsi to connect with WikiLeaks about the trove of stolen materials it received from Russia. Corsi subsequently communicated WikiLeaks’ release plan back to Stone, and the Trump campaign built its final message around the email release. That is collusion.

Second, we now know that Trump’s personal lawyer Michael Cohen and former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn have provided evidence to Mueller related to collusion. In Cohen’s sentencing memo, Mueller said that Cohen provided his office with “useful information” on “Russia-related matters core to its investigation.” One of those central elements, according to the Justice Department: “any links and/or coordination” between the Kremlin and Trump campaign figures. Collusion, in other words.

Third, Mueller has found evidence that Trump was compromised by a hostile foreign power during the election. In his plea deal, Cohen revealed that Trump had repeatedly lied to voters about the then-candidate’s financial ties to Russia. While Trump claimed during the campaign to have no business dealings with Russia, he was negotiating a wildly lucrative business deal not simply with Russian businessmen, but also involving with the Kremlin itself. Trump’s team even reportedly tried to bribe Russian President Vladimir Putin by offering him a $50 million penthouse.
Worse, Russia not only knew that Trump was lying, but when investigators first started looking into this deal, the Kremlin helped Trump cover up what really happened. That made Trump doubly compromised: first, because he was eager to get the financial payout and second because Russia had evidence he was lying to the American people—evidence they could have held over Trump by threatening to reveal at any time.

The Cohen conviction is clear evidence that Trump committed a felony. You cannot instruct someone else to commit a felony for you. Doing that makes you equally culpable.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is an ugly list. Paul says that love does not keep a record of wrongs. This list demonstrates that Trump and His supporters do not have love, it is a hateful list.

You asked for the list, then you apply some false Christian standard to the list, claiming that Trump and his followers "do not have love." Seriously?

This is not an "ugly" list. If your thumb hurts every time you hit it with a hammer, is it now "ugly" to write yourself a note "hold nail with needle nose pliers when hammering."

I don't know who prepared the list, but to claim guilt by association on Trump and all Trump supporters is way out of character for you. I read your post here and thought at first that zeek wrote it.

Shouldn't we learn from history? Is politics now the church? Is it also ugly for the Bible to record the sins of Abraham, David, Paul, or Judas?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The Cohen conviction is clear evidence that Trump committed a felony. You cannot instruct someone else to commit a felony for you. Doing that makes you equally culpable.

Seriously?

Michael Cohen is the lawyer here. He is the expert on the law. He went to law school. Trump is a business man. Trump hires lawyers because they know the law. Wiki says about Cohen, "His uncle is a family practitioner who gave medical aid to members of the Lucchese crime family. Before joining the Trump Organization, Cohen had purchased several homes in Trump's buildings. A 2017 New York Times article reported that Cohen is known for having "a penchant for luxury"; he was married at The Pierre, drove a Porsche while attending college, and once owned a Bentley."

Sounds to me like plain old greed got the best of Cohen. Like Manafort, Cohen didn't pay his taxes. Name me one lawyer who illegally records conversations with his client. Cohen is a bad actor. Muller used him, and spit him out.

Now you are telling us that Trump is guilty because his lawyer broke the law.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You asked for the list, then you apply some false Christian standard to the list, claiming that Trump and his followers "do not have love." Seriously?

This is not an "ugly" list. If your thumb hurts every time you hit it with a hammer, is it now "ugly" to write yourself a note "hold nail with needle nose pliers when hammering."

I don't know who prepared the list, but to claim guilt by association on Trump and all Trump supporters is way out of character for you. I read your post here and thought at first that zeek wrote it.

Shouldn't we learn from history? Is politics now the church? Is it also ugly for the Bible to record the sins of Abraham, David, Paul, or Judas?

Look at the list. Most people on it look like they received retribution from either Trump supporters, or Trump cronies because they said some word that Trump didn't like.


Some are absurd. Seriously, Bill Cosby's judgement came on him because he said a bad word about Trump? Absurd.


Others are mean. Someone says a word contrary to Trump and all of a sudden they dig up some "allegation" that is 50 years old. That is worse than what they did to Kavanaugh.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Seriously?

Michael Cohen is the lawyer here. He is the expert on the law. He went to law school. Trump is a business man. Trump hires lawyers because they know the law. Wiki says about Cohen, "His uncle is a family practitioner who gave medical aid to members of the Lucchese crime family. Before joining the Trump Organization, Cohen had purchased several homes in Trump's buildings. A 2017 New York Times article reported that Cohen is known for having "a penchant for luxury"; he was married at The Pierre, drove a Porsche while attending college, and once owned a Bentley."

Sounds to me like plain old greed got the best of Cohen. Like Manafort, Cohen didn't pay his taxes. Name me one lawyer who illegally records conversations with his client. Cohen is a bad actor. Muller used him, and spit him out.

Now you are telling us that Trump is guilty because his lawyer broke the law.

Yes, seriously. If the "Don" orders a hit, he cannot then claim, hey my hit man was trained by the US military and was an expert. You cannot direct an employee to commit a crime, and then pretend to not be responsible or know about it.


A jury is now going to have to decide if Trump's decision to hide this right before the election was to protect his family, his business, or his political ambition. Cohen's testimony, the Enquirer's testimony and the timeline all would move me to see this as a crime. The many falsehoods spoken by Trump would definitely damage his credibility to me.


I cannot possibly believe that Cohen and the National Enquirer would do this without Trump being a knowing beneficiary.


The fact that Cohen was a lawyer ("an expert of the law") eliminates any pretense of "oops, my mistake, didn't know".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Look at the list. Most people on it look like they received retribution from either Trump supporters, or Trump cronies because they said some word that Trump didn't like.

I saw them as reaping what they sowed, yet what they sowed was hidden from sight, so they often escaped the reaper, that is, until they crossed the line and bashed Trump.

How else explain it? Read the list. If conservatives decide not to support a certain entertainer, is that really "retribution?"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's a guy who has studied history, it's only 4 minutes long . . .

D'Souza spars with student over "white privilege"

Is that where you get your inside infomation? D'Souza? That explains it.

Originally Posted by Ohio

awareness, you seem to be interested in the plight of Native Americans and African Americans. You owe it to yourself to research the actual facts of history, and not how history has been rewritten to fit an agenda.

It's not like I don't know that the slave states were democrats. I realized that the demmies were bad. And not great today either.

But now, today, the slaves states are mostly republican.

I saw that happen to my extended family. Back before they were driven out of between the rivers -- by JFK, btw -- they were democrats. Now they're all Fox News republicans.

I know Kentucky didn't secede from the union, but they sure had plenty of Jim Crow laws, and Black Code laws, back when they were democrats. Now they're republicans that don't like blacks. The democrats today? Not so much.

By the way, you've been insulting my ancestors. My daddy was a democrat. But would have switched over president Blackenstein.

Originally Posted by Ohiio

This is essentially what I had to do with church history after I left the LC. I read the actual events of church history, so that I could be purged of the leaven of Lee.

I've been repeatedly impressed with your study of recent church history, other than that of Lee, or even of Miller's Church History, that Lee thought a lot of.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I saw them as reaping what they sowed, yet what they sowed was hidden from sight, so they often escaped the reaper, that is, until they crossed the line and bashed Trump.

How else explain it? Read the list. If conservatives decide not to support a certain entertainer, is that really "retribution?"

Reap what they sowed? I thought this was a country where you had the right to have your own opinion about the leaders (ie democratically elected representatives). Now that becomes "reaping what they sowed" if they disagree with the elected official? When did the US become Nazi Germany?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, seriously. If the "Don" orders a hit, he cannot then claim, hey my hit man was trained by the US military and was an expert. You cannot direct an employee to commit a crime, and then pretend to not be responsible or know about it.

Terrible example. Far more people have died as a result of the Clintonistas. Name me one person who has died suspiciously or disappeared because of Trump. I could post lists of suspicious Clinton deaths, but obviously "lists" don't work well here.

Lawyers like Cohen are supposed to abide by the law. I guess that's too difficult to understand.

Comparing Trump to a mafia Don is way out of line, but understandable, knowing today's media climate.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's not like I don't know that the slave states were democrats. I realized that the demmies were bad. And not great today either.

But now, today, the slaves states are mostly republican.

The issue is that the leaders are afraid to speak the truth. The Democrats appeal to the bottom two thirds of the country, but it is a major disinformation campaign. For the last 100 years they have been doing their best to keep the US from going Socialist. We are run by big business and corporate interests, so the Democrats are there to placate the masses and keep them from going socialist. Obamacare is a socialist agenda (no accident that it is being undone). Bernie is a socialist agenda (look at how the Democrats stabbed him in the back). Ocasio is a socialist. The socialists have been gaining ground inch by hard fought inch. It is amazing how little progress they have made given the superficial appearance of a democracy. (If the poorest 2/3 knew what was going on they would vote for a socialist agenda).


1. Turn off the poorest people from voting.
2. Destroy public education with the wonderfully coined "no child left behind" policy.

3. Arrest as many poor as possible, giving them felonies and disqualifying them from voting.

4. Allow unlimited campaign funds so that the rich have a bigger voice
and
5. lie, lie, lie.


Hillary Clinton knows exactly what the deal is.


But the lies are equally on the Republicans side. Trump is all gung ho for a wall and yet has an undocumented worker making his bed. Doesn't seem to make sense till you really understand the meaning of the wall: Don't complain about how I am treating you or else I'll deport you.


It is major corporations and Republican backers that bring in the illegal aliens to "do the jobs Americans don't want to do". But they need strict immigration laws to prevent these workers from thinking they have rights.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Terrible example. Far more people have died as a result of the Clintonistas. Name me one person who has died suspiciously or disappeared because of Trump. I could post lists of suspicious Clinton deaths, but obviously "lists" don't work well here.

Lawyers like Cohen are supposed to abide by the law. I guess that's too difficult to understand.

Comparing Trump to a mafia Don is way out of line, but understandable, knowing today's media climate.

I was making fun of his being called "the Don". Once again you are under the misguided thought that if the Clinton's killed 10 people then it is OK for Trump to kill one person.


We don't measure crimes by "are they better or worse than the Clinton's crimes".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I was making fun of his being called "the Don". Once again you are under the misguided thought that if the Clinton's killed 10 people then it is OK for Trump to kill one person.

We don't measure crimes by "are they better or worse than the Clinton's crimes".

That's right. Clinton's get away with murder, and no one calls them a Crime Family. But all their people go after Trump, and the Media names him a "Don," and it becomes a joke, of sorts. Didn't someone say that if we repeat a big lie often enough, people will believe it?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The issue is that the leaders are afraid to speak the truth. The Democrats appeal to the bottom two thirds of the country, but it is a major disinformation campaign. For the last 100 years they have been doing their best to keep the US from going Socialist. We are run by big business and corporate interests, so the Democrats are there to placate the masses and keep them from going socialist. Obamacare is a socialist agenda (no accident that it is being undone). Bernie is a socialist agenda (look at how the Democrats stabbed him in the back). Ocasio is a socialist. The socialists have been gaining ground inch by hard fought inch. It is amazing how little progress they have made given the superficial appearance of a democracy. (If the poorest 2/3 knew what was going on they would vote for a socialist agenda).
.

Hitler was a Socialist. He led the National Socialist Workers Party.

Give me one example where Socialism has helped people? And don't tell me Scandinavia, because they are all Capitalistic countries with Social programs.

Give me one example where Socialism did not become a dictatorship?

Capitalism does have rich and poor, Socialism only has poor. Dirt poor. Read your history. And the poor in the US are the richest "poor" n the world.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Is that where you get your inside infomation? D'Souza? That explains it.

It's not like I don't know that the slave states were democrats. I realized that the demmies were bad. And not great today either.

But now, today, the slaves states are mostly republican.

I saw that happen to my extended family. Back before they were driven out of between the rivers -- by JFK, btw -- they were democrats. Now they're all Fox News republicans.

You should study the causes. It's not Fox News. JFK Democrats are now Republicans. Perhaps they discovered who the Dems really were.

You write off D'Sousa, yet can't refute his message. That's telling.

Reminds me of people who reject the Bible cause it's "all lies."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's right. Clinton's get away with murder, and no one calls them a Crime Family.

Not true. You call them a crime family and you are somebody. Don't let anyone tell you that you are a no one.

Originally Posted by Ohio

But all their people go after Trump, and the Media names him a "Don," and it becomes a joke, of sorts. Didn't someone say that if we repeat a big lie often enough, people will believe it?

"The Donald" was a very big media whore from his youth. The term "the Don" was given to him by his friends -- most notably Howard Stern. Blame Trump and his friends.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hitler was a Socialist.

Bernie Madoff was a capitalist.

Originally Posted by Ohio

He led the National Socialist Workers Party.

Give me one example where Socialism has helped people? .

1. Police Department -- socialist program.
2. Fire department -- socialist program
3. Public school -- socialist program
4. Medicare and Medicaid -- socialist program
5. Highway system -- socialist program
6. Mass transit -- socialist program
7. Public TV -- socialist program (this includes the local TV stations that every American can broadcast on)

Originally Posted by Ohio

And don't tell me Scandinavia, because they are all Capitalistic countries with Social programs.

That is idiotic. That is like saying "tell me one time when the brakes helped people and don't tell me cars because they have an accelerator".

Originally Posted by Ohio

Give me one example where Socialism did not become a dictatorship?

Capitalism does have rich and poor, Socialism only has poor. Dirt poor. Read your history. And the poor in the US are the richest "poor" n the world.

Once again this is clueless. Capitalism is a very important component of an economy, but a pure capitalist society without any socialist programs is inhumane. I am not for a "pure socialist" program, nor am I for a "pure capitalist" system.


I see a need for a little of each -- capitalism is critical for the stock market and business. Socialism is critical to make sure we don't worship the almighty dollar but rather keep in mind what the priorities of any society is which is its people. Finally, there still needs to be some "communism". Public parks, and other things need to be held in common by all.


If you understand that then you can see there isn't a single successful first world nation that doesn't have socialist programs.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You write off D'Sousa, yet can't refute his message. That's telling.

Yeah, telling that he's a convicted felon, and a dark skinned immigrant version of Ann Coulter, and a conspiracy theorist.

And is prolly where you get your crazy conspiracies like, Obama is a Muslim, or Moooooslem, and was born in Kenya.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You should study the causes. It's not Fox News. JFK Democrats are now Republicans. Perhaps they discovered who the Dems really were.

You write off D'Sousa, yet can't refute his message. That's telling.

Reminds me of people who reject the Bible cause it's "all lies."

D'Sousa's message? That includes mocking the survivors of the Parkland High School mass shooting. Why do you like vicious people Mister Ohio? What does that say about you?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

D'Sousa's message? That includes mocking the survivors of the Parkland High School mass shooting. Why do you like vicious people Mister Ohio? What does that say about you?

At least now I understand that your hatred is not just directed at Trump, but any and all conservatives, including myself.

Classic virtue signaling, perfected by zeek.

Are you not vicious for supporting abortion? That's real "vicious," not just some D'Sousa tease. Your support for abortion is worst than the Holocaust! What does that say about you?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

At least now I understand that your hatred is not just directed at Trump, but any and all conservatives, including myself.

Classic virtue signaling, perfected by zeek.

Are you not vicious for supporting abortion? That's real "vicious," not just some D'Sousa tease. Your support for abortion is worst than the Holocaust! What does that say about you?

I challenge you to look on this thread or any other ones on this entire website and find where I have supported abortion.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I challenge you to look on this thread or any other ones on this entire website and find where I have supported abortion.

Easy. You support everyone who supports abortion. You oppose everyone who might oppose it. You are an accomplice. You cannot hide.

[zeek]

Duplicate post

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Easy. You support everyone who supports abortion. You oppose everyone who might oppose it. You are an accomplice. You cannot hide.

Let's see who's hiding. My name is Ken Gemmer. What's yours?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah, telling that he's a convicted felon, and a dark skinned immigrant version of Ann Coulter, and a conspiracy theorist.

And is prolly where you get your crazy conspiracies like, Obama is a Muslim, or Moooooslem, and was born in Kenya.

If the facts of history support my comments, why do you dismiss them as "crazy conspiracies?" Then who is "crazy?"

But I'll take your bait this time concerning Obama. His father was a Muslam. I don't know where Obama was born, but Documents Experts have proven that both his Birth Certificate and Selective Service papers are frauds. Sorry if this truth is offensive to you.

Back to American history. Dinish D'Sousa is not a convicted felon, and has no record. It is your own racial prejudice that denigrates him as a "dark skinned immigrant." Sounds racist and xenophobic to me.

Since you reject historians who are immigrant men of color, here is another who is an American woman of color, providing indicting evidence about the Democrats . . .

The Inconvenient Truth about the Democratic Party

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If the facts of history support my comments, why do you dismiss them as "crazy conspiracies?" Then who is "crazy?"

Good question. But your conspiracies aren't facts of history.

Originally Posted by Ohio

But I'll take your bait this time concerning Obama. His father was a Muslam. I don't know where Obama was born, but Documents Experts have proven that both his Birth Certificate and Selective Service papers are frauds. Sorry if this truth is offensive to you.

So like Trump you're a birther. But Trump failed to prove it. And I suspect your "experts" failed as well. Seems the truth is "for some reason" offensive to you.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Dinish D'Sousa is not a convicted felon, and has no record.

Have you forgotten that we've got Wiki :

"On May 20, 2014 D'Souza pleaded guilty to one felony count of making illegal contributions in the names of others.[152] On September 23, 2014, the court sentenced D'Souza to five years probation, eight months in a halfway house (referred to as a "community confinement center") and a $30,000 fine."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh...on,_and_pardon

Originally Posted by Ohio

It is your own racial prejudice that denigrates him as a "dark skinned immigrant." Sounds racist and xenophobic to me.

Precisely. I wanted to you to speak out against it. That means you are against Trump's racist and xenophobic immigration policies. I'm glad you agree that racism and xenophobia are wrong.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Since you reject historians who are immigrant men of color, here is another who is an American woman of color, providing indicting evidence about the Democrats . . .

The Inconvenient Truth about the Democratic Party

My answer to the opening question : "When you think of racial equality and civil rights, which party comes to mind? is, Republican.

Why? because what I see out of the parties today. I didn't live in the 19th century. I go by what I see today.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Good question. But your conspiracies aren't facts of history.


So like Trump you're a birther. But Trump failed to prove it. And I suspect your "experts" failed as well. Seems the truth is "for some reason" offensive to you.


Have you forgotten that we've got Wiki :

"On May 20, 2014 D'Souza pleaded guilty to one felony count of making illegal contributions in the names of others.[152] On September 23, 2014, the court sentenced D'Souza to five years probation, eight months in a halfway house (referred to as a "community confinement center") and a $30,000 fine."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh...on,_and_pardon


Precisely. I wanted to you to speak out against it. That means you are against Trump's racist and xenophobic immigration policies. I'm glad you agree that racism and xenophobia are wrong.


My answer to the opening question : "When you think of racial equality and civil rights, which party comes to mind? is, Republican.

Why? because what I see out of the parties today. I didn't live in the 19th century. I go by what I see today.

D'Souza is a wily provocateur and now Trump apologist who weaponizes the historical reversals of the Democratic and Republican parties over time in the service of Trumpism. And why not? Trump pardoned him after he pleaded guilty for a felony.

If you think that Clinton and the Republican Congress put an end to welfare as we know it in the 90s D'Souza says you've got another think coming. His goal is "to complete Abraham Lincoln's agenda of shutting down the Democratic plantation which keeps people of color in bondage." Translation: He would deny people of color any kind of public benefits.

D'Souza is a master of falsehoods, rhetorical sleight-of-hand, goalpost shifting and other bad faith arguments capable of baffling the average liberal with his non-stop BS. D'Souza is a bit like what Lying Donald would be if he had 40 more IQ points was capable of reading college-level history books.

[zeek]

If Trump shuts down the government this weekend will he play golf while secret service service agents guard him without pay?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

If Trump shuts down the government this weekend will he play golf while secret service service agents guard him without pay?

Secret Service is exempt.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Secret Service is exempt.

From what I gather they aren't.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

From what I gather they aren't.

They are required to stay on the job, they have to wait to get paid though. So they aren't furloughed, they continue to work and they will get paid for that work once the govt is back up and running.


For example, the U.S. Secret Service agents protecting Drumpf and his family would not be paid during a shutdown. Transportation Security Agency personnel working at airports through the holiday season would also stay on the job during a shutdown, but they’d also have to wait to get paid.

[ZNPaaneah]

Some are predicting Trump will resign within a month.


Jan 18?


The idea is that he can use his agreement to resign as leverage to avoid prosecution. So although he is exempt as President his son and daughter are not. That prosecution can probably start within the next month after this last court victory getting the subpoena of a foreign corporation. If Trump were to pardon his own family there would be riots in the street, the Republican party would be terrified of that prospect. They would get crushed in the election. Besides he will need their good will to get a pardon for himself.


Although it is speculation as to what information they will get from this mysterious corporation, what isn't speculation is that it has been proven conclusively to several courts to be relevant to the case concerning colusion, and that this is a corporation in a country that does not already have an agreement with the US to provide these subpoenas without all this legal battle -- ie Russia. Therefore Mueller must have provided sufficient evidence that they will find proof of fraud or collusion with either the Trump campaign or the Trump organization. Either way Don Jr. and Ivanka would be squarely in the cross hairs of Mueller.


Also they have made this personal -- Flynn's attacks on the FBI, Fox news attack on Mueller, and Trump's continued "no collusion" have made this personal for Mueller.

[ZNPaaneah]

Time for Trump to give his "checkers" speech.

[zeek]

Where have all the generals gone? Now General Mattis is quitting the Trump administration in protest after Trump disregarded his advice and announced pulling the troops out of Syria prematurely. Like when Trump sent troops to the Mexican border he is once again playing politics with America's military. The generals chose to leave because no one with integrity can work for Donald Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Where have all the generals gone? Now General Mattis is quitting the Trump administration in protest after Trump disregarded his advice and announced pulling the troops out of Syria prematurely. Like when Trump sent troops to the Mexican border he is once again playing politics with America's military. The generals chose to leave because no one with integrity can work for Donald Trump.

This is why poll numbers of 38% are so negative. It is difficult to think that Trump actually represents the will of the American people. But at least Putin was happy with this decision.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is why poll numbers of 38% are so negative. It is difficult to think that Trump actually represents the will of the American people. But at least Putin was happy with this decision.

Mattis’s resignation led to a rare rebuke from Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader: “I am particularly distressed that he is resigning due to sharp differences with the president on these and other key aspects of America’s global leadership.”

[zeek]

Originally Posted by zeek

Mattis’s resignation led to a rare rebuke from Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader: “I am particularly distressed that he is resigning due to sharp differences with the president on these and other key aspects of America’s global leadership.”

Mattis resigned in displeasure with Trump but Trump again made Putin happy. This episode sows where Trump's loyalties lie.

We began to learn what hold Russian President Vladimir Putin has over Trump. Thus, Trump himself repeatedly stated since entering the presidential race in June 2015 that he had no business in Russia and no interactions with representatives of Russia.

It now turns out that Putin knew what the American people didn’t, namely that Donald Trump was throughout the 2016 presidential primary campaign secretly negotiating to build a huge and lucrative hotel in Moscow, which required the personal support of Vladimir Putin.

The fact that Putin knew about Trump’s secret dealings, while the American people didn’t, meant that if Trump didn’t do what Russia wanted, Russia could expose Trump’s lies and so bring him down.


And now this:

"Putin Welcomes U.S. Withdrawal From Syria as ‘Correct’"

The decision has been criticized, even among Republicans, as abandoning Kurdish allies in the face of a hostile Turkey and a still dangerous Islamic State, as well as leaving Syria open territory for the geopolitical ambitions of Russia and Iran.

Mr. Putin reiterated the Kremlin position that American forces have no legal right to be in Syria, in that they were neither invited by Damascus, as the Russian forces were, nor authorized by the United Nations Security Council. Trump's announcement is a big geopolitical win for Putin.

sources NYT and Forbes

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Mattis resigned in displeasure with Trump but Trump again made Putin happy. This episode sows where Trump's loyalties lie.

We began to learn what hold Russian President Vladimir Putin has over Trump. Thus, Trump himself repeatedly stated since entering the presidential race in June 2015 that he had no business in Russia and no interactions with representatives of Russia.

It now turns out that Putin knew what the American people didn’t, namely that Donald Trump was throughout the 2016 presidential primary campaign secretly negotiating to build a huge and lucrative hotel in Moscow, which required the personal support of Vladimir Putin.

The fact that Putin knew about Trump’s secret dealings, while the American people didn’t, meant that if Trump didn’t do what Russia wanted, Russia could expose Trump’s lies and so bring him down.


And now this:

"Putin Welcomes U.S. Withdrawal From Syria as ‘Correct’"

The decision has been criticized, even among Republicans, as abandoning Kurdish allies in the face of a hostile Turkey and a still dangerous Islamic State, as well as leaving Syria open territory for the geopolitical ambitions of Russia and Iran.

Mr. Putin reiterated the Kremlin position that American forces have no legal right to be in Syria, in that they were neither invited by Damascus, as the Russian forces were, nor authorized by the United Nations Security Council. Trump's announcement is a big geopolitical win for Putin.

sources NYT and Forbes

Trump is a symptom. Getting rid of him is not a cure. Think how ridiculous this last presidential election was. Trump had no experience, no resume, nothing he had ever done as a govt official. But that was an advantage. Because Clinton did have a long resume there were many people who disliked her. These elections cost $1 billion, when you are talking money on that scale you are also talking about fraud, quid pro quo, etc.

We would never choose a person for an important position like this. And it gets worse when you consider all those "great" people Trump (or any other president) is going to appoint to all the other key positions.

In England you could never be prime minister like this. Likewise in the US why couldn't we do the same thing?

Suppose for a second that we were only able to pick the president based on decisions they had made in the past (similar to SCOTUS). We could ask them and debate them about the decisions they had made and their thought process, but not allow the empty campaign promises that turn out to be lies. No one has a problem doing this with SCOTUS. The voters are asking to be lied to when they are looking for campaign promises.

So then, the requirement if you were to run for president would be to create a resume of all your past experience relevant to being president. What your accomplishments were, tough decisions, etc. If we focused the entire campaign on discussing what the candidate had done and not what they were promising to do this could eliminate those candidates without a resume (like Trump). Then we could get a consumer reports style analysis of the candidates. They might break it down into 40 or 50 criteria and candidates with major holes in their resume would become apparent.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trump is a symptom. Getting rid of him is not a cure. Think how ridiculous this last presidential election was. Trump had no experience, no resume, nothing he had ever done as a govt official. But that was an advantage. Because Clinton did have a long resume there were many people who disliked her. These elections cost $1 billion, when you are talking money on that scale you are also talking about fraud, quid pro quo, etc.

We would never choose a person for an important position like this. And it gets worse when you consider all those "great" people Trump (or any other president) is going to appoint to all the other key positions.

In England you could never be prime minister like this. Likewise in the US why couldn't we do the same thing?

Suppose for a second that we were only able to pick the president based on decisions they had made in the past (similar to SCOTUS). We could ask them and debate them about the decisions they had made and their thought process, but not allow the empty campaign promises that turn out to be lies. No one has a problem doing this with SCOTUS. The voters are asking to be lied to when they are looking for campaign promises.

So then, the requirement if you were to run for president would be to create a resume of all your past experience relevant to being president. What your accomplishments were, tough decisions, etc. If we focused the entire campaign on discussing what the candidate had done and not what they were promising to do this could eliminate those candidates without a resume (like Trump). Then we could get a consumer reports style analysis of the candidates. They might break it down into 40 or 50 criteria and candidates with major holes in their resume would become apparent.

Well...sure, Trump is symptomatic of larger problems. But, Trump is an immediate problem that cannot be ignored. Two years in, he increasingly stands alone, impulsively causing nearly constant turmoil, with no end in sight — a government shutdown, spiraling scandals, tumbling stock markets, abrupt troop withdrawals, the resignation of his alienated defense secretary. What next? He seems to be spinning out of control.

I hope Trump can be managed until the next election and then voted out of office. But, it isn't clear to me how to do that and that we can divert disaster that long.

For two years the Republicans have had majorities in both houses and haven't done anything to get Trump's wall built. Now that they will lose their majority in the House of Representatives next month "Lindsey Graham Doubles Down On Wall Funding: ‘We’re Not Going To Give In’." The GOP senator vowed to put up a fight for border wall money. Clearly he's just playing politics. Where's he been for the last two years?

Trump said Mexico was going to pay for the wall. So, what's the problem? Why bother congress? Just show us the money. By the way how do the Israelis feel about Trump's unilateral withdrawal from Syria? Just askin'.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Well...sure, Trump is symptomatic of larger problems. But, Trump is an immediate problem that cannot be ignored. Two years in, he increasingly stands alone, impulsively causing nearly constant turmoil, with no end in sight — a government shutdown, spiraling scandals, tumbling stock markets, abrupt troop withdrawals, the resignation of his alienated defense secretary. What next? He seems to be spinning out of control.

He's

Leading By The Seat Of His Diapers
"Trump Has No Idea What a President’s Job Requires, Like Running a Government"

https://www.dcreport.org/2018/12/22/...f-his-diapers/

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

He's

Leading By The Seat Of His Diapers
"Trump Has No Idea What a President’s Job Requires, Like Running a Government"

https://www.dcreport.org/2018/12/22/...f-his-diapers/

"Trump’s behavior has become so erratic, his lying so persistent, his willingness to fulfill the basic functions of the presidency — like reading briefing books, consulting government experts before making major changes and appointing a competent staff — so absent, his readiness to accommodate Russia and spurn allies so disturbing and his obsession with himself and his ego over all other considerations so consistent, two more years of him in office could pose a real threat to our nation. Vice President Mike Pence could not possibly be worse." Thomas L. Friedman NYT

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

"Trump’s behavior has become so erratic, his lying so persistent, his willingness to fulfill the basic functions of the presidency — like reading briefing books, consulting government experts before making major changes and appointing a competent staff — so absent, his readiness to accommodate Russia and spurn allies so disturbing and his obsession with himself and his ego over all other considerations so consistent, two more years of him in office could pose a real threat to our nation. Vice President Mike Pence could not possibly be worse." Thomas L. Friedman NYT

Hence my suggestion that there needs to be more of a prerequisite than "born in America".

[zeek]

"Want to keep Christ in Christmas? Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked.Forgive the guilty. Welcome the unwanted. Care for the ill. Love your enemies and do unto others as you would have done unto you."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Hence my suggestion that there needs to be more of a prerequisite than "born in America".

The electoral college was suppose to prevent the election of an unstable and crooked president :

"However, once the Electoral College had been decided on, several delegates (Mason, Butler, Morris, Wilson, and Madison) openly recognized its ability to protect the election process from cabal, corruption, intrigue, and faction. Some delegates, including James Wilson and James Madison, preferred popular election of the executive. Madison acknowledged that while a popular vote would be ideal, it would be difficult to get consensus on the proposal given the prevalence of slavery in the South"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ctoral_College

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The electoral college was suppose to prevent the election of an unstable and crooked president :

"However, once the Electoral College had been decided on, several delegates (Mason, Butler, Morris, Wilson, and Madison) openly recognized its ability to protect the election process from cabal, corruption, intrigue, and faction. Some delegates, including James Wilson and James Madison, preferred popular election of the executive. Madison acknowledged that while a popular vote would be ideal, it would be difficult to get consensus on the proposal given the prevalence of slavery in the South"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ctoral_College

The Electoral college has been a complete bust.

Instead, I would argue that our process with SCOTUS is far more effective yet still too political.

We have prerequisites to take college level courses, and we have prerequisites for jobs. Why should president, senator, congressman or governor be any different?

[ZNPaaneah]

Mnuchin can’t stand up to his boss — and it’s costing you money

Am I the only one? Every time I see this guys name I pronounce it Munchkin, which of course makes me think of the little munchkins afraid of the wicked witch.

[awareness]

'Merry Christmas to refugee babies in mangers': Congress member-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez creates a stir by comparing immigrants at the border to baby Jesus

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sus-tweet.html

[zeek]

As China Cracks Down on Churches, Christians Declare ‘We Will Not Forfeit Our Faith’

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/25/w...d=165251391226

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

As China Cracks Down on Churches, Christians Declare ‘We Will Not Forfeit Our Faith’

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/25/w...d=165251391226

China is just being smart. They've seen civil wars and revolutions on grand scales, resulting in record breaking numbers of deaths, resulting from Bible based cults.

In the 19th century, for example, as a result of Christian missionaries invading China, they suffered one of the all time deaths tolls, from converts, forming Bible based cults - or "xie jiao," “evil cult," see the Taiping Rebellion.

And recently, springing out of Witness Lee's shouters, Eastern Lightning.

As an aside here, in looking into these matters, I ran across this :

"In The Church of Almighty God, the Bible is accepted as the holy scripture for the Age of Law and the Age of Grace, although it is argued that "recorded by human beings, it contains messages from God and some truthful insights, which are helpful to know God's work in the Age of Law and the Age of Grace, but it also carries many human errors."[34] In our time, the church believes that we find a safer guide in the utterances of Almighty God [Yang Xiangbin]."

Sounds like Lee to me, except not "Almighty God," but Minister of the Age. Same. Same.

In court, Lee argued that as a result of branding the local church a cult, both Nee's and Lee's followers in China were being persecuted.

Given the history in China, the cult of Nee and Lee should be persecuted, and eliminated.

China is only being justifiably smart.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

China is just being smart. They've seen civil wars and revolutions on grand scales, resulting in record breaking numbers of deaths, resulting from Bible based cults.

In the 19th century, for example, as a result of Christian missionaries invading China, they suffered one of the all time deaths tolls, from converts, forming Bible based cults - or "xie jiao," “evil cult," see the Taiping Rebellion.

And recently, springing out of Witness Lee's shouters, Eastern Lightning.

As an aside here, in looking into these matters, I ran across this :

"In The Church of Almighty God, the Bible is accepted as the holy scripture for the Age of Law and the Age of Grace, although it is argued that "recorded by human beings, it contains messages from God and some truthful insights, which are helpful to know God's work in the Age of Law and the Age of Grace, but it also carries many human errors."[34] In our time, the church believes that we find a safer guide in the utterances of Almighty God [Yang Xiangbin]."

Sounds like Lee to me, except not "Almighty God," but Minister of the Age. Same. Same.

In court, Lee argued that as a result of branding the local church a cult, both Nee's and Lee's followers in China were being persecuted.

Given the history in China, the cult of Nee and Lee should be persecuted, and eliminated.

China is only being justifiably smart.

So you approve of China's denial of religious liberty. Interesting. Apparently to you the Chinese are unworthy of 1st amendment religious freedom. Why?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

So you approve of China's denial of religious liberty. Interesting. Apparently to you the Chinese are unworthy of 1st amendment religious freedom. Why?

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” ― Friedrich W. Nietzsche

Jesus: "Resist not evil."

So I guess, according to Jesus, we and China should allow cults like Nee and Lee to go on, even if, in China's case, it causes millions of deaths. Jesus was an enabler. Then why, "I came to bring a sword?" So maybe Jesus likes cults.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” ― Friedrich W. Nietzsche

Jesus: "Resist not evil."

So I guess, according to Jesus, we and China should allow cults like Nee and Lee to go on, even if, in China's case, it causes millions of deaths. Jesus was an enabler. Then why, "I came to bring a sword?" So maybe Jesus likes cults.

Is misquoting the Bible your specialty? James and Peter both tell us to resist the devil, so reducing Jesus word to not resist an evil person to simply not resist evil is clearly not supported by the NT.

Jesus word is a contrasting strategy to "an eye for an eye". It is the equivalent to spiritual Judo. An eye for an eye leads to a stalemate and is a lose lose strategy. Agreeing with your adversary, going with them, giving them your coat, might be a "win lose" strategy but it might also result in you winning over your adversary and gaining an ally. It is similar to the strategy we adopted after WWII to rebuild Europe and Japan, winning allies, which in turn helped the US in many ways.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” ― Friedrich W. Nietzsche

Jesus: "Resist not evil."

So I guess, according to Jesus, we and China should allow cults like Nee and Lee to go on, even if, in China's case, it causes millions of deaths. Jesus was an enabler. Then why, "I came to bring a sword?" So maybe Jesus likes cults.

You didn't answer the question. You maintain your right to practice any faith you choose or no faith at all. Why wouldn't you grant that freedom to everyone else?

The first amendment to the U.S. Constitution begins "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Why shouldn't that law be applied throughout the world including China?

You blame religion for millions of deaths in China. The U.S. while not free from religious conflict has generally been able to allow its people to practice whatever religion they choose as long as they don't discriminate against or excessively burden or become violent toward others in the name of their religious belief. Why can't China do the same?

[zeek]

The cherry on top of "Deficit hawk" Paul Ryan's proud legacy?
"Federal Deficit jumps 17 Percent As Tax Cuts Eat Into Government Revenue"

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/16/65779...LhJmSTwwv5DeTc

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

You didn't answer the question. You maintain your right to practice any faith you choose or no faith at all. Why wouldn't you grant that freedom to everyone else?

Don't get carried away. Unbunch yer knickers. You know I support freedom.

I think the vitriol of my disappointment in myself for joining Lee's cult was bubbling up from deep in my subconscious and it got the best of me.

Cults are stubborn things. Squash them here, and they pop up over there.

China don't have our history. They don't have our Declaration of Independence, nor our constitution, caused by historical events of the west, not the east.

Their history is that cults, of the Christian sort, have caused civil wars, and costly civil unrest and tragic calamities. Can you blame them for not wanting them? Atheism may not have much to do with it.

However, their draconian methods for stopping them won't work. The only method that holds any hope is classes in cults for the young. There are colleges that offer such classes. Just not enough. And prolly none in China.

However, I could be wrong. China is presently developing a wide surveillance system of all their citizens. They may very well get control of cults by draconian methods. They may even squash out the Nee and Lee cults. Let's hope.

Meanwhile, here in America, we'll never get control of cults. Our freedom of religion ends up being cult enabling. That makes us a cult magnet, for such as Lee. America : "China, we'll take your cults. Calling all cults. Cult's R Us." Have you seen the size of Scientology in Clearwater? They're legal ... hahahaha. That doesn't mean we should like them. They're damaging our children.

I guess cults are the price of religious freedom, even while, ironically, they rob people of freedom.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

China don't have our history. They don't have our Declaration of Independence, nor our constitution, caused by historical events of the west, not the east.

The problem with the Declaration of Independence and "We hold these truths to be self evident" is that this was written by some very smart men, and unfortunately as we can easily see these truths are not self evident to those who are a little less smart.

Even Awareness, when he gets his knickers all bunched up, demonstrates this. He is like that dog on Up that got distracted by squirrels. All you have to do is say "cult" and Awareness has thrown everything he claims to stand for out the window.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Even Awareness, when he gets his knickers all bunched up, demonstrates this. He is like that dog on Up that got distracted by squirrels. All you have to do is say "cult" and Awareness has thrown everything he claims to stand for out the window.

Once bit, twice shy.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Once bit, twice shy.

Weasel response.

What was the "issue" about the LC "cult"?

1. Leader thought he was on a higher plane than everyone else.

2. Leader controlled what everyone else read and said.

Take those two things away and what is the issue? Corruption? Sorry to burst your bubble but the corruption in the LC was hardly anything out of the ordinary for the world or for regimes like China.

So why would you support a dictatorial regime like China, where the leaders give laws that everyone else has to keep (because they think they are on a higher plane than everyone else) and where they control what everyone reads and says?

Just answer the question.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Weasel response.

What was the "issue" about the LC "cult"?

1. Leader thought he was on a higher plane than everyone else.

2. Leader controlled what everyone else read and said.

Take those two things away and what is the issue? Corruption? Sorry to burst your bubble but the corruption in the LC was hardly anything out of the ordinary for the world or for regimes like China.

So why would you support a dictatorial regime like China, where the leaders give laws that everyone else has to keep (because they think they are on a higher plane than everyone else) and where they control what everyone reads and says?

Just answer the question.

Once bit, twice shy. Sorry. Had to say it.

You make a good point ; China can be seen as a cult wiping out all other competing cults ; the atheist cult wins. They already have, btw. I've read that 90% of China's citizens know nothing about anything to do with any religion, and have no interest to do so. They're perchance like those taking the blue pill in the Matrix ; the steak tastes good.

And mind control? They do filter the internet, and what can be found on their nationwide domain. A search, for example, for tiananmen square will find nothing.

I'd have trouble living there before the LC, so certainly not after tasting that China type cultic mind control in the LC. To digress for the moment.

Methinks that China will end up being the leading nation in the world in the future. Me-also-thinks, AI will end up subjecting the whole world to mind control. Bots are doing that on social media right now. There is, and has been, fake news out there. And like Nazi Germany, presently coming from state control, thru Twitter.

We were all idiots for being in the Chinaman's LC cult. You included bro ZNP. So are you expressing the same vitriol that got the better of me?

What was the question again?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

We were all idiots for being in the Chinaman's LC cult. You included bro ZNP. So are you expressing the same vitriol that got the better of me?

What was the question again?

I have a different take than you. I feel everything was for a purpose. I feel I grew as a Christian, my faith was tested, and I learned to follow the Lord's leading. The Lord led me into the LC and He led me out.

So no vitriol, simply an awareness of the Chinese government.

[ZNPaaneah]

Another thing to change

I think it is unnecessary and even negative that we have a "ticket" for both President and Vice President. Simply have a rule of succession and leave it at that. For example, the "vice president" could become the Cabinet official that had been confirmed by the Senate and "named" as first successor by the President. I can see the value in having the Secretary of State of the Chief of Staff immediately taking the reigns. They have both been fully involved in key decisions. But getting a VP simply to get votes and then sidelining him for the next 4-8 years is negative.

[zeek]

The typical Trump supporter has no respect for government employees anyway. What do they care if there's a shutdown?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

The typical Trump supporter has no respect for government employees anyway. What do they care if there's a shutdown?

That is ridiculous. There are 2 million federal employees, surely quite a few of them, maybe even 40% are "Trump supporters".

I think the entire argument is much ado over nothing. 5 billion (what Trump is asking for) is about 0.1% of the Federal Budget. To put that into perspective, that is like a family that spends $150,000 a year shutting down over $150.

Now you might feel that this is not a good use of the money. But you cannot deny that Israel has built a wall that does have some use. Likewise, the Democrats could come back with a counter offer, say $1 billion. That would make them appear reasonable. Again, that is similar to my hypothetical family having a battle royal over $30. But it is even less than that. The money will be spent in the US on construction, 40% of the money will return to the Federal govt as taxes.

I did not vote for Trump, but no one can deny that tens of millions of Americans did, and one reason was they wanted this wall built. I see no good reason why the Democrats can't compromise.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is ridiculous. There are 2 million federal employees, surely quite a few of them, maybe even 40% are "Trump supporters".

But Trump tweeted :

Do the Dems realize that most of the people not getting paid are Democrats?
132K
6:06 AM - Dec 27, 2018

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

But Trump tweeted :

Do the Dems realize that most of the people not getting paid are Democrats?
132K
6:06 AM - Dec 27, 2018

Most, as in 60%? Are all Democrats so poor with math? 60% + 40% = 100%.

[zeek]

Of course Trump and Pompeo love this guy Bolsonaro. And he's a big Trump fan. I'm concerned that he's going to destroy what's left of the Amazon rainforest in Brazil one of the world's greatest ecological treasures.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...xt35d9Iqx3-DWg

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Of course Trump and Pompeo love this guy Bolsonaro. And he's a big Trump fan. I'm concerned that he's going to destroy what's left of the Amazon rainforest in Brazil one of the world's greatest ecological treasures.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progre...xt35d9Iqx3-DWg

You forgot to mention genocide bro, of non-Christians.

But he's for saving the pre-born's, so it's okay.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

You forgot to mention genocide bro, of non-Christians.

But he's for saving the pre-born's, so it's okay.

Oh, thanks bro. I missed that.

[zeek]

When Trump first announced withdrawal of American troupes from Syria in the middle of December, he said: "They're all coming back and they're coming back now." In his announcement, Mr Trump had also declared that IS had been "defeated". After the president made his announcement on 19 December, US officials said American forces had been given 30 days to leave Syria.

Here's the big surprise. Trump lied...again. The US National Security Adviser John Bolton now says the withdrawal of US troops from Syria depends on certain conditions, in a further indication that the process is being slowed down. On a trip to Israel and Turkey, he said he would seek Turkish assurances that Kurds in northern Syria would be safe. The US also wants to ensure that the remnants of the Islamic State (IS) group are defeated, he added thus contradicting the unfit "Commander-in-Chief who stated that IS had been defeated 19 days ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46775308

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

When Trump first announced withdrawal of American troupes from Syria in the middle of December, he said: "They're all coming back and they're coming back now." In his announcement, Mr Trump had also declared that IS had been "defeated". After the president made his announcement on 19 December, US officials said American forces had been given 30 days to leave Syria.

Here's the big surprise. Trump lied...again. The US National Security Adviser John Bolton now says the withdrawal of US troops from Syria depends on certain conditions, in a further indication that the process is being slowed down. On a trip to Israel and Turkey, he said he would seek Turkish assurances that Kurds in northern Syria would be safe. The US also wants to ensure that the remnants of the Islamic State (IS) group are defeated, he added thus contradicting the unfit "Commander-in-Chief who stated that IS had been defeated 19 days ago.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46775308

Apparently cooler minds don't want to give a handout to Putin.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Apparently cooler minds don't want to give a handout to Putin.

No doubt. I can certainly understand if our Christian friends on this forum no longer wish to argue in defense of career con-man and pathological liar Donald Trump. They can't help but see he is so clearly unfit for the office of POTUS.

I understand why they were loath to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. The political process that gave us a choice between Trump and Clinton for president was clearly sick.

But now that the evidence shows that Trump accepted money from foreign governments, is using his the presidency to promote his businesses after hiding his personal finances from the American people, and how he exhibits dangerously erratic behavior nearly everyday in the White House, they can no longer support the man. And I applaud them for this.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

No doubt. I can certainly understand if our Christian friends on this forum no longer wish to argue in defense of career con-man and pathological liar Donald Trump. They can't help but see he is so clearly unfit for the office of POTUS.

Fox didn't get that memo.

Originally Posted by zeek

I understand why they were loath to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. The political process that gave us a choice between Trump and Clinton for president was clearly sick.

They failed to listen to David Barton (Wallbuilders), who convinced Evangelicals that America was founded by white Christian MEN ; and that should continue to be so today.

Originally Posted by zeek

But now that the evidence shows that Trump accepted money from foreign governments, is using his the presidency to promote his businesses after hiding his personal finances from the American people, and how he exhibits dangerously erratic behavior nearly everyday in the White House, they can no longer support the man. And I applaud them for this.

Don't count your chickens. Seems Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave, and, his ratings would go up.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Fox didn't get that memo.

Is Fox on this forum? Where?

They failed to listen to David Barton (Wallbuilders), who convinced Evangelicals that America was founded by white Christian MEN ; and that should continue to be so today.

Relevance?

Don't count your chickens. Seems Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave, and, his ratings would go up.

Like eggs to a vegan.

[awareness]

They've thrown in the towel.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

They've thrown in the towel.

Well they've been arguing in support of Trump who has partially shut down the government in service of his temper tantrum and is expected to lie about there being a national emergency at the southern border despite the fact that Chris Wallace exposed Sarah Huckabee's lies on the Fox news channel of all things. So perhaps our conservative friends are embarrassed.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Well they've been arguing in support of Trump who has partially shut down the government in service of his temper tantrum and is expected to lie about there being a national emergency at the southern border despite the fact that Chris Wallace exposed Sarah Huckabee's lies on the Fox news channel of all things. So perhaps our conservative friends are embarrassed.

As our friends should be. They've been fooled before. And I'm sure we've all heard:

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.” - Dubya

[ZNPaaneah]

The cost of violence in the US is estimated to be 3.3% of GDP.

80% of gun violence is gang related. Therefore I will consider that 50% of this cost of violence is gang related, this seems like a very safe estimate.

US GDP is $19 Trillion. I will round this to 20 trillion because it is easier to work with and because I am looking for an average over the next 10 years and US GDP has been rising year after year.

So then 3.3% is $660 billion. 50% of that is $330 billion.

13% of gang violence is committed by illegal aliens. This estimate is based on the fact that 13% of gang members arrested for committing acts of violence are illegal immigrants.

So then, $42.9 billion is the estimated yearly cost of violence from illegal aliens in gangs (13% of 330 billion).

I realize that a wall is not going to eliminate illegal aliens nor will it eliminate gang violence. But, these numbers are the relevant numbers for determining if the wall is a waste of money. Anyone who is honestly looking at whether or not the wall is a waste of money should be starting with these numbers.

For example, if the wall can keep out 3% of those illegal aliens that become gang members then it does pay for itself with an ROI over 20%, a very good ROI.

Personally I am not for the wall, but neither am I against it. I agree with those who say it is “ineffective” and will not keep out the really bad guys. But I also agree that it will keep out some, and 3% is hardly an overly optimistic estimate.

Secondly, whenever the government puts $5 billion into a construction project like this they will get back 36% in taxes the very first year. This is why public works projects from the government is effective. This is why it worked for FDR.

Third, when you compare $5 billion to the total US budget, it would be like someone who spends $100,000 a year having a bill for $50. $50 may not be insignificant, but it certainly is not worth all the air time this has gotten. Even if I thought my wife was wasting her money spending $50 on a better lock for the front door I would not make a big deal about it.

That is why I blame the shutdown on the Democrats. Trump campaigned on the wall, his supporters want it, and he is simply doing what he said he would do. The Democrats have no good reason to shut down the government over this.

PS -- 13% of gang related homicides is greater than the number of all the people killed on 9/11. And that is every year, not a one time event. So, if 9/11 can be characterized as a national security crisis, then why can't these deaths?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trump campaigned on the wall, his supporters want it, and he is simply doing what he said he would do.

The wall was just one of Trump's brain farts during his campaign, that played well at his rally's, like Lock Her Up and Drain the Swamp.

And Trump took responsibility for the shutdown, and in fact, he's proud to do it. Plus, 5 billion will not build the wall. It will cover about 220 miles, and half of that will just be repairing what we already have up, which is not a wall. In short, it's a joke, and a photo op for Trump to say, see I built the wall.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

The wall was just one of Trump's brain farts during his campaign, that played well at his rally's, like Lock Her Up and Drain the Swamp.

And Trump took responsibility for the shutdown, and in fact, he's proud to do it. Plus, 5 billion will not build the wall. It will cover about 220 miles, and half of that will just be repairing what we already have up, which is not a wall. In short, it's a joke, and a photo op for Trump to say, see I built the wall.

Is there a crisis at our southern border? No but if there were we should do like we do after every mass shooting and give it our thoughts and prayers. Pray that the Mexicans will pay fo a wall like Trump promised they would.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The wall was just one of Trump's brain farts during his campaign, that played well at his rally's, like Lock Her Up and Drain the Swamp.

And Trump took responsibility for the shutdown, and in fact, he's proud to do it. Plus, 5 billion will not build the wall. It will cover about 220 miles, and half of that will just be repairing what we already have up, which is not a wall. In short, it's a joke, and a photo op for Trump to say, see I built the wall.

Good example of the vapid analysis you hear on the news even after 2 years, and even after the shutdown of the government. I consider it a complete joke to listen to people who do such superficial analysis claims that this goal is superficial.

1. My first question is if this is really as big an issue as they claim. A simple google search shows that 80% of gun violence is gang related. So if you want to reduce gun violence it makes sense to focus on gang violence.
Another simple search would surely make it clear that gun violence is the single biggest issue when it comes to law and order and safety.

So the answer to the first question is yes, a responsible person would focus on gang violence if they were serious about making the US safer.

2. My second question is if illegal immigrants are really part of the problem. It turns out that 13% of the violence with gangs is from illegal immigrants. This is not insignificant, it comes to around $50 billion in estimated damages. Also, these gangs are closely affiliated with gangs in other countries and this relationship is critical to them. For example, if they sell drugs this connection is to their supplier. If you can cut this connection you do far more damage to the gang than the 13% would indicate. An artery may not represent a large mass of the human body, but cut it and the body dies.

So yes, illegal immigrants are part of the problem and cutting that link could cripple the gangs ability to operate.

3. My third question is if the proposed remedy will actually solve the problem. The wall is not going to stop the import of drugs, even though the occasional mule will swallow the drugs in bags, even so I doubt these ones walk through the desert for 20 or 30 miles. Instead the wall will have an impact on illegal immigrants, particularly people who cannot climb the wall (older people, women and children). None of those people would be cartel hit men. However, many of them will be poor immigrants whose children may be prime targets to enter a gang later. So it is possible over a ten year span to see a small decrease in gang members, but even a 3% drop would be a significant impact to the US. But what I see as the potential real benefit is that fewer of the border guards can spend their time rounding up these immigrants, allowing us to focus more resources on the paths that the cartel uses -- tunnels, cars, trucks, and airplanes. Again, even if it allows for a 5% increase in seized contraband that would also be a big plus to our law enforcement.

So the term "solve" is relative, just like a weight loss program. Will cutting out fruit drinks and soft drinks "solve" the obesity epidemic? No, but it will help and that is how you make inroads. A little improvement here, and a little improvement there.

4. Since it won't "solve" the problem my fourth question is if it is cost effective. Will the $5 billion result in more than a $5 billion return to the US. I estimate that it will. Generally for a construction program like this you can compare it to a house with a 25 year mortgage at 5%. It is very difficult for me to believe anyone who looks at the numbers in an unbiased way taking all factors into account would not conclude that the benefit would be at least that if not far more. I see something closer to a 20% return on investment being a very conservative estimate, meaning the wall would pay for itself in 5 years.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Is there a crisis at our southern border? No but if there were we should do like we do after every mass shooting and give it our thoughts and prayers. Pray that the Mexicans will pay fo a wall like Trump promised they would.

Gang violence completely eclipses 9/11, with more than 10xs the deaths each year. Saying this is not a crisis is rubbing salt in the wounds of the family and friends of these kids who are killed each year. You should see their attitude every time some kid shoots up a suburban school, it is an offense to them that the news makes such a big deal of it when this is their every day experience and no one appears to care. Every year I have taught in Brooklyn some kid from our school has been killed in this kind of violence (either a kid going to our school or a kid directly related to one of our kids). So I am glad it is not a crisis for you, but that is a very inconsiderate attitude for the 1 million + people who have lost someone in the last 6 or 7 years.

(BTW there is a historical marker for the house Donald Trump grew up in within a block or two of this school, so it is very likely that Trump is well aware of what is happening in this neighborhood)

This really hit home for me when I heard that one of my students had lost his cousin to one of these gang shootings. So I went to him and as he talked I realized he was talking about someone else (the kid I had heard of played basketball) so I questioned him about it and then realized he had lost two cousins to gang shootings, not one.

Also, for those of you who are not aware, sneakers that are thrown over a power line are a tribute to a kid who was killed. If you see those hanging from a power line know that a kid in that neighborhood was killed.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Gang violence completely eclipses 9/11, with more than 10xs the deaths each year. Saying this is not a crisis is rubbing salt in the wounds of the family and friends of these kids who are killed each year. You should see their attitude every time some kid shoots up a suburban school, it is an offense to them that the news makes such a big deal of it when this is their every day experience and no one appears to care. Every year I have taught in Brooklyn some kid from our school has been killed in this kind of violence (either a kid going to our school or a kid directly related to one of our kids). So I am glad it is not a crisis for you, but that is a very inconsiderate attitude for the 1 million + people who have lost someone in the last 6 or 7 years.

(BTW there is a historical marker for the house Donald Trump grew up in within a block or two of this school, so it is very likely that Trump is well aware of what is happening in this neighborhood)

This really hit home for me when I heard that one of my students had lost his cousin to one of these gang shootings. So I went to him and as he talked I realized he was talking about someone else (the kid I had heard of played basketball) so I questioned him about it and then realized he had lost two cousins to gang shootings, not one.

Also, for those of you who are not aware, sneakers that are thrown over a power line are a tribute to a kid who was killed. If you see those hanging from a power line know that a kid in that neighborhood was killed.

Unless you can demonstrate how building a wall on the US southern border is going to solve your neighborhood crime problem, you have made a wildly spurious leap in logic. Thanks for demonstrating how Trump wins support by evoking people's xenophobic fantasies.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Unless you can demonstrate how building a wall on the US southern border is going to solve your neighborhood crime problem, you have made a wildly spurious leap in logic. Thanks for demonstrating how Trump wins support by evoking people's xenophobic fantasies.

This is not my recommended course of action, nor can anyone characterize me as a "supporter of Trump". On the contrary I am a supporter of the US constitution and sympathize and empathize with the tens of thousands of people affected by illegal immigrants killing Americans each year. It is not necessary to know anything more than this will help to empathize with them, and to respect the fact that Trump was elected as a result of our electoral process.

I respect the fact that they want us to do something, that has been demonstrated effectively for me. I can also respect the assertion that this might help. The example of the wall built in Israel is a valid example of how these walls can have a positive impact on reducing violence.

It is also very clear to me that the amount ($5 billion) is almost trivial when viewed in light of our entire budget. Shutting down the government over this is callous and inconsiderate. You are ignoring the people who have lost a loved one, you are ignoring the electorate that elected Trump, and you are willing to let millions of people who depend on their paycheck every two weeks to go without for what?

Once again, I blame the Democrats for this shutdown. I see no valid reason not to compromise. For example, suppose they agree to release $1 billion per year over the next 5 years to build this wall. If Trump is not reelected they could cancel that after 2 years. $1 billion a year is truly a trivial amount of our annual budget.

We currently have a very substantial "fence", "wall", "barrier" at our border. I have seen it in El Paso. Democrats didn't have a problem with that, so why the big issue over extending it?

Finally this claim that the wall "will not solve your neighborhood crime problem" is a straw man argument. Health clubs cannot promise to solve your obesity problem, but that is not an argument against having a membership. The issue is not whether or not it will "solve" the problem but rather will it "help" and if it will help is it a cost effective strategy.

I think it is absurd to say it won't help, the only issue is how much and is it worth $5 billion. But remember, the govt will get 36% back immediately as tax revenue. So the real question is whether or not it is worth 3.3 billion. Now this "barrier" will certainly be used for 25 years, so then this question translates into $130 million benefit per year. That is will it reduce violent crime in the US by 0.02% per year. No one can assure us it won't.

So the question for me is why are you saying no? What is your issue with trying this? Why are you so callous and inconsiderate to those who are suffering?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is not my recommended course of action, nor can anyone characterize me as a "supporter of Trump". On the contrary I am a supporter of the US constitution and sympathize and empathize with the tens of thousands of people affected by illegal immigrants killing Americans each year. It is not necessary to know anything more than this will help to empathize with them, and to respect the fact that Trump was elected as a result of our electoral process.

I respect the fact that they want us to do something, that has been demonstrated effectively for me. I can also respect the assertion that this might help. The example of the wall built in Israel is a valid example of how these walls can have a positive impact on reducing violence.

It is also very clear to me that the amount ($5 billion) is almost trivial when viewed in light of our entire budget. Shutting down the government over this is callous and inconsiderate. You are ignoring the people who have lost a loved one, you are ignoring the electorate that elected Trump, and you are willing to let millions of people who depend on their paycheck every two weeks to go without for what?

Once again, I blame the Democrats for this shutdown. I see no valid reason not to compromise. For example, suppose they agree to release $1 billion per year over the next 5 years to build this wall. If Trump is not reelected they could cancel that after 2 years. $1 billion a year is truly a trivial amount of our annual budget.

We currently have a very substantial "fence", "wall", "barrier" at our border. I have seen it in El Paso. Democrats didn't have a problem with that, so why the big issue over extending it?

Finally this claim that the wall "will not solve your neighborhood crime problem" is a straw man argument. Health clubs cannot promise to solve your obesity problem, but that is not an argument against having a membership. The issue is not whether or not it will "solve" the problem but rather will it "help" and if it will help is it a cost effective strategy.

I think it is absurd to say it won't help, the only issue is how much and is it worth $5 billion. But remember, the govt will get 36% back immediately as tax revenue. So the real question is whether or not it is worth 3.3 billion. Now this "barrier" will certainly be used for 25 years, so then this question translates into $130 million benefit per year. That is will it reduce violent crime in the US by 0.02% per year. No one can assure us it won't.

So the question for me is why are you saying no? What is your issue with trying this? Why are you so callous and inconsiderate to those who are suffering?

Trump told a bunch of lies last night. Sorry to learn you support lying.

Trump said there's a national security crisis at the border. That's a lie. The real crisis is how to handle a historically high number of Central American families and children coming into the country many of whom are asking for asylum. The wall does nothing to solve that problem which is been exacerbated by the Trump administration's policies over the last two years.

Trump said that innocent people are being horribly victimized by immigrants who commit crimes. As Shepard Smith noted on Fox News last night government statistics show that there is less violent crime by undocumented immigrant population by the general population.

Trump had promised that Mexico would pay for the wall. That was a lie.

Give in to a liar and the lying will never stop.

This liar needs to go.

[Ohio]

Last night while watching Ch'ancy, my wife says "they look just like that old couple in the picture with the pitchfork."

Obviously she was spot on.





"Professing to be wise, they became fools." -- Romans 1.22

.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Last night while watching Ch'ancy, my wife says "they look just like that old couple in the picture with the pitchfork."

Obviously she was spot on.





"Professing to be wise, they became fools." -- Romans 1.22

.

Very cute bro Ohio.

Let's be like Fox : Fair and Balanced :

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Good example of the vapid analysis you hear on the news even after 2 years, and even after the shutdown of the government. I consider it a complete joke to listen to people who do such superficial analysis claims that this goal is superficial.

1. My first question is if this is really as big an issue as they claim. A simple google search shows that 80% of gun violence is gang related. So if you want to reduce gun violence it makes sense to focus on gang violence.
Another simple search would surely make it clear that gun violence is the single biggest issue when it comes to law and order and safety.

So the answer to the first question is yes, a responsible person would focus on gang violence if they were serious about making the US safer.

2. My second question is if illegal immigrants are really part of the problem. It turns out that 13% of the violence with gangs is from illegal immigrants. This is not insignificant, it comes to around $50 billion in estimated damages. Also, these gangs are closely affiliated with gangs in other countries and this relationship is critical to them. For example, if they sell drugs this connection is to their supplier. If you can cut this connection you do far more damage to the gang than the 13% would indicate. An artery may not represent a large mass of the human body, but cut it and the body dies.

So yes, illegal immigrants are part of the problem and cutting that link could cripple the gangs ability to operate.

3. My third question is if the proposed remedy will actually solve the problem. The wall is not going to stop the import of drugs, even though the occasional mule will swallow the drugs in bags, even so I doubt these ones walk through the desert for 20 or 30 miles. Instead the wall will have an impact on illegal immigrants, particularly people who cannot climb the wall (older people, women and children). None of those people would be cartel hit men. However, many of them will be poor immigrants whose children may be prime targets to enter a gang later. So it is possible over a ten year span to see a small decrease in gang members, but even a 3% drop would be a significant impact to the US. But what I see as the potential real benefit is that fewer of the border guards can spend their time rounding up these immigrants, allowing us to focus more resources on the paths that the cartel uses -- tunnels, cars, trucks, and airplanes. Again, even if it allows for a 5% increase in seized contraband that would also be a big plus to our law enforcement.

So the term "solve" is relative, just like a weight loss program. Will cutting out fruit drinks and soft drinks "solve" the obesity epidemic? No, but it will help and that is how you make inroads. A little improvement here, and a little improvement there.

4. Since it won't "solve" the problem my fourth question is if it is cost effective. Will the $5 billion result in more than a $5 billion return to the US. I estimate that it will. Generally for a construction program like this you can compare it to a house with a 25 year mortgage at 5%. It is very difficult for me to believe anyone who looks at the numbers in an unbiased way taking all factors into account would not conclude that the benefit would be at least that if not far more. I see something closer to a 20% return on investment being a very conservative estimate, meaning the wall would pay for itself in 5 years.

If I were inclined to accept your analysis I may as well accept Trump's.

But I prefer facts to either, not crazy suppositions and wishful conclusions :

AP FACT CHECK: Trump and the disputed border crisis

https://www.apnews.com/3bf581a53684440b92121bb1b8ae43a9

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

If I were inclined to accept your analysis I may as well accept Trump's.

But I prefer facts to either, not crazy suppositions and wishful conclusions :

AP FACT CHECK: Trump and the disputed border crisis

A.P. Fact Checkers -- What a joke!

Mark Twain said it best: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Many books have been written about this.



Sorry friend, but your opinions have been totally *manipulated*.
.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump told a bunch of lies last night. Sorry to learn you support lying.

Trump said there's a national security crisis at the border. That's a lie. The real crisis is how to handle a historically high number of Central American families and children coming into the country many of whom are asking for asylum. The wall does nothing to solve that problem which is been exacerbated by the Trump administration's policies over the last two years.

This is your opinion. This is the problem with the discourse these days people passing off their opinion as facts. Whether or not the wall will be worth the $5 billion is an opinion, not a fact. Gangs accounting for 80% of the violent crimes in this country is a fact, not an opinion. Gang violence being the biggest issue concerning crime and people feeling safe in this country is a fact, not an opinion.

Describing the border as a "national security crisis" is an opinion, not a fact and not a lie.

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump said that innocent people are being horribly victimized by immigrants who commit crimes. As Shepard Smith noted on Fox News last night government statistics show that there is less violent crime by undocumented immigrant population by the general population.

Are you serious, do you even have an idea what a crime is? Saying that a person has murdered fewer people than Hitler doesn't mean that murder is not a crime. 13% of gang members arrested for violent crimes are illegal immigrants. Those are crimes that never would have been committed if they were stopped at the border.

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump had promised that Mexico would pay for the wall. That was a lie.

Yawn

Originally Posted by zeek

Give in to a liar and the lying will never stop.

This liar needs to go.

So impeach him. If Mueller's report indicates he was involved in felonies I am all for impeachment. But focus on the true story and don't get worked up about this idiotic stuff.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

If I were inclined to accept your analysis I may as well accept Trump's.

But I prefer facts to either, not crazy suppositions and wishful conclusions :

AP FACT CHECK: Trump and the disputed border crisis

https://www.apnews.com/3bf581a53684440b92121bb1b8ae43a9

Did you even read it? They don't dispute one thing I said.

1. They point out that a wall will not stop the pipeline of drugs. They don’t dispute the facts concerning the effect of the drugs nor do they dispute the fact that they are coming across this border.

I did not claim the wall will have a direct impact on stopping the drugs, rather I said this could help concentrate the border security at these points perhaps resulting in more seizures.

2. Trump said Democrats will not fund the wall. They call this a lie because they will fund other forms of border security including fence building. So then everyone is agreed on the funding this barrier, the only issue is whether it is $1 billion or 5? So we are shutting down the government because of that?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So impeach him. If Mueller's report indicates he was involved in felonies I am all for impeachment. But focus on the true story and don't get worked up about this idiotic stuff.

Mueller's investigations are more idiotic than the other "stuff" you mentioned.

So far all he has "proven" is that federal prosecutors can easily force people to "lie," and that people in power don't pay taxes.

Duhhhh!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Did you even read it? They don't dispute one thing I said.

1. They point out that a wall will not stop the pipeline of drugs. They don’t dispute the facts concerning the effect of the drugs nor do they dispute the fact that they are coming across this border.

I did not claim the wall will have a direct impact on stopping the drugs, rather I said this could help concentrate the border security at these points perhaps resulting in more seizures.

2. Trump said Democrats will not fund the wall. They call this a lie because they will fund other forms of border security including fence building. So then everyone is agreed on the funding this barrier, the only issue is whether it is $1 billion or 5? So we are shutting down the government because of that?

ZNP, try not to use facts or reason to communicate with certain posters.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, try not to use facts or reason to communicate with certain posters.

It is mind boggling.

To listen to them it is some kind of crime to say that the US putting up a barrier on the border is some kind of crime. They are like the pharisees and saducees making a big stink over a gnat while swallowing the camel (by comparison this $5 billion dollar project is a gnat in the US budge).

They complain about gun violence but pretend that gang violence and gangs associated with cartels are not an issue.

They jump on the fact that "the majority of immigrants" are not criminals while ignoring that 13% of these violent crimes from gangs are not only illegal immigrants, but illegal immigrants that have crossed the border with Mexico illegally multiple times.

This claim that "this will not solve the problem" is such a slimy argument. It is like an obese person saying that cutting out pizza will not solve the problem. Maybe not, but it will help and it is a step in the right direction.

But what makes angry is not once do they make a suggestion on how the $5 billion would be better spent.

I agree that the wall is not my first choice on how to solve this problem, but on the other hand I also agree that it might be helpful and it might pay for itself by reducing the violent crime.

However, I am more than happy to provide suggestions that I know will work:

1. Spend $5 billion to eliminate all the school lunch debt. I have seen that providing breakfast and lunch to students improves attendance. Getting kids off the streets keeps them away from gangs and street crime.

2. Pay for after school programs. Right now we can only afford 1 after school tutoring session a week, many kids can't make that day, if we had more then they would pass, graduate and not fall through the cracks.

3. Require all gun owners to have insurance that would pay for any damages they inflict on others, just like car owners have to have liability insurance. This enlists a very powerful lobbyist that can stand up to the NRA and push common sense legislation. This also gives us immediate use of the most sophisticated computer network and algorithms that would monitor every purchase a gun owner makes. In addition they would offer discounts to people who provided additional access to other records that would immediately flag them if they had mental health issues, got fired, or had some extremely stressful event (wife killed by drunk driver, etc).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It is mind boggling.

To listen to them it is some kind of crime to say that the US putting up a barrier on the border is some kind of crime. They are like the pharisees and saducees making a big stink over a gnat while swallowing the camel (by comparison this $5 billion dollar project is a gnat in the US budge).

I don't know what grade you teach, but talking to those children every day sure has prepared you for this forum.

Just consider how many more "intelligent" folks out there fixate their entire belief system on the latest Democratic talking points.

There must be something to this "Trump Derangement Syndrome" I hear about. I hope I never catch it.

If scotus RBG does not recover, we may have rioting in the streets.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There must be something to this "Trump Derangement Syndrome" I hear about. I hope I never catch it.

That is how I would describe it. Trump has them deranged to the point that anything he says or does they are jumping up and down throwing dust in the air and screaming.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, try not to use facts or reason to communicate with certain posters.

Yeah bro ZNP ... like posters that post

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It is mind boggling.

To listen to them it is some kind of crime to say that the US putting up a barrier on the border is some kind of crime. They are like the pharisees and saducees making a big stink over a gnat while swallowing the camel (by comparison this $5 billion dollar project is a gnat in the US budge).

They complain about gun violence but pretend that gang violence and gangs associated with cartels are not an issue.

C'mon bro ZNP. Did Sandy Hook happen because we don't have a border wall? How about the Las Vegas mass shooting, and all the others, that are domestic terrorism, that the wall has nothing to do with whatsoever.

And stats show that crime among the illegal immigrants is lower that American citizens.

So your crazy "facts" are nonsense.

Just tell us whether you support the wall or not, and be done with it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

C'mon bro ZNP. Did Sandy Hook happen because we don't have a border wall? How about the Las Vegas mass shooting, and all the others, that are domestic terrorism, that the wall has nothing to do with whatsoever.

And stats show that crime among the illegal immigrants is lower that American citizens.

So your crazy "facts" are nonsense.

Just tell us whether you support the wall or not, and be done with it.

Great irrelevant points. Would body armor on cops have prevented Sandy hook? No, then why have them?

Do I support the wall? Wow. You mean the existing border security fence that runs through El Paso. No one ever asked me. So the real question was would I support tearing it down. No. I don't live in El Paso and I respect their city and the decision of either the US, Texas or El Paso to put up a fence.

Or do you mean do I support adding to the existing "wall" (fence, barrier, whatever). Yes, I do. I have hiked through the desert and know it is extremely difficult to do that in the dark. I also know that an extra 5 or 10 miles walking around the fence can mean an extra day for women, children and anybody but the fittest hikers. So I can easily see how extending the fence in the areas where they are getting the most illegals could save manpower and resources in rounding them up.

The reason I don't see this as my own suggestion is that the wall is extremely limited in its effectiveness on crime in the US. I do see that over a 25 year period it could easily reduce violent crime enough to pay for itself. But the biggest impact on reducing gun violence, imo, is to require liability insurance for all gun owners. That would have a direct impact on every single crime committed with a gun in the US, that would immediately enlist a major lobbyist to finally get legislation passed that would have an impact.

Second I consider education a much more effective solution to getting poor people out of poverty which in turns means they are much more valuable as taxpayers. That high school kid killed by gang violence could have been a taxpayer for 45 years. Government lost out on hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax revenue. $5 billion goes a very long way to doing that. In NYC free meals (kids call them "freefree") and subway cards improve attendance a lot.

So in conclusion I like that someone is doing something other than spewing angst. Not what I would have chosen but it might be a good step in a strategy of cutting the gangs off from the cartels.

[awareness]

“Never ever give up,” he [Trump] urged graduates at Wagner College on New York’s Staten Island:

“Don’t give up. Don’t allow it to happen. If there’s a concrete wall in front of you, go through it, go over it, go around it, but get to the other side of that wall.” Trump 2004.

Go to minute 12:35.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQqjSPsvA0E

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Great irrelevant points. Would body armor on cops have prevented Sandy hook? No, then why have them?

Do I support the wall? Wow. You mean the existing border security fence that runs through El Paso. No one ever asked me. So the real question was would I support tearing it down. No. I don't live in El Paso and I respect their city and the decision of either the US, Texas or El Paso to put up a fence.

Zero Lawmakers Representing Border Districts Support Donald Trump’s Wall

The nine House members representing border districts from California to Texas voted in favor of reopening the government without additional money for the wall.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trumps-...ding-2019-1-8/

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Zero Lawmakers Representing Border Districts Support Donald Trump’s Wall

The nine House members representing border districts from California to Texas voted in favor of reopening the government without additional money for the wall.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trumps-...ding-2019-1-8/

These are separate questions. I feel like I am talking to flat stanley who cannot see 3 dimensions.

In my posts when I describe this brouhaha as being like a huge marital spat over a wife wanting to spend $50 on a lock for the front door for a family that spends $100,000 every year that is an indication that I also do not support the shutdown. Nor do I think this shutdown is over this, but rather this was simply the latest straw they can fight over.

Likewise when I say that I blame the Democrats for the shutdown that implies to most people who read this that I don't support the shutdown. Your question did not ask "do I support shutting the govt down over the wall". Obviously (to those who can see 3 dimensions) I don't. Hence, I blame the Democrats for this. Why don't I blame the Republicans? Because they campaigned on this issue, they were elected and they are simply doing what they were elected to do and I support the US constitution and the idea of democracy. I view the Democrats as extremely hypocritical on this. They portray themselves as very much for gun legislation and yet this one proposal will actually have an impact, small though it may be, on gun violence and they are pretending outrage. Why, what have they proposed?

This has become a very partisan battle, so all Democrats are on one side, all Republicans are on the other. However, congressmen and some Senators who are up for election in less than 2 years are in the crosshairs of this and all of them have to support getting those furloughed paid. Think of how absurd this whole "shutting the government" down is. They aren't actually shutting it down, they are simply requiring people to work without getting paid. It is an outrage and a completely different issue from the "barrier".

In my opinion the government has to do something about gun violence, since they are afraid of the NRA and the 2nd amendment their only recourse is to go after those who are not protected by it, the illegal immigrants. When you look at the illegal immigrants in gangs who are violent offenders you discover that they have already been deported multiple times so that is a big joke of a solution. So they have done the only option left, make it harder to get into the country illegally.

As I have already said I don't view this as anything more than a baby step. IMO enlisting a bigger, badder lobbyist to your side, the Insurance industry is not only a much bigger and better step, it is also a much more cost effective step (doesn't even cost the taxpayers).

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is your opinion. This is the problem with the discourse these days people passing off their opinion as facts. Whether or not the wall will be worth the $5 billion is an opinion, not a fact. Gangs accounting for 80% of the violent crimes in this country is a fact, not an opinion. Gang violence being the biggest issue concerning crime and people feeling safe in this country is a fact, not an opinion.

Describing the border as a "national security crisis" is an opinion, not a fact and not a lie.



Are you serious, do you even have an idea what a crime is? Saying that a person has murdered fewer people than Hitler doesn't mean that murder is not a crime. 13% of gang members arrested for violent crimes are illegal immigrants. Those are crimes that never would have been committed if they were stopped at the border.



Yawn



So impeach him. If Mueller's report indicates he was involved in felonies I am all for impeachment. But focus on the true story and don't get worked up about this idiotic stuff.

Here are a few facts for you to yawn over:

• Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall indirectly through a new trade deal. This is misleading; no money for the deal ends up contributing to construction.
• Trump reeled off a series of numbers about the numbers of border crossers arrested for assault, sex crimes and murder. But his numbers were inflated.
• He talked about drugs flowing across the border, but ignored the fact that they come through ports of entry that would remain open after a wall is build.
• He said Democrats used to support his wall, but stopped once he took office. This is wrong; Democrats never supported the type of concrete barrier Trump has talked about. They did support fencing, but Trump mocked their position as inadequate and ridiculous.

Trump's arguments for his wall have been shot down. He couldn't get it built when there was a Republican majority in Congress, so there's no reason to give it to him now. f the Dems cave on this, every time he wants something he'll shut down the government again.

[Ohio]

wasting my time

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Here are a few facts for you to yawn over:

• Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall indirectly through a new trade deal. This is misleading; no money for the deal ends up contributing to construction.
• Trump reeled off a series of numbers about the numbers of border crossers arrested for assault, sex crimes and murder. But his numbers were inflated.

• I have issues with the numbers used by both sides on this argument, but will concede that Trump's statements invite misrepresentation.
  
  

  Originally Posted by zeek

  He talked about drugs flowing across the border, but ignored the fact that they come through ports of entry that would remain open after a wall is build.

  I agree that a very poor job has been done of explaining the benefit of a barrier.
  
  

  Originally Posted by zeek

  He said Democrats used to support his wall, but stopped once he took office. This is wrong; Democrats never supported the type of concrete barrier Trump has talked about. They did support fencing, but Trump mocked their position as inadequate and ridiculous.

Once again this looks a lot like the "last straw" rather than a valid argument. If they both agree on a fence then it seems absurd to shut down the govt over this.

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump's arguments for his wall have been shot down. He couldn't get it built when there was a Republican majority in Congress, so there's no reason to give it to him now. f the Dems cave on this, every time he wants something he'll shut down the government again.

Sounds like the arguments my colleagues hear all the time from their kindergartners.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump's arguments for his wall have been shot down. He couldn't get it built when there was a Republican majority in Congress, so there's no reason to give it to him now. f the Dems cave on this, every time he wants something he'll shut down the government again.

Trump says a National Emergency would be a lot of fun, and slams a reporter for asking why he had the GOP for 2 years, and didn't get his wall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-T3FyiuII

[ZNPaaneah]

To sum up -- we have had a fence/barrier on the Mexican border for many years now without anyone saying one peep about racism, insults to Mexico, waste of money, ineffective, etc. This barrier is in high traffic areas like El Paso, but in the more remote parts of the border it isn't there. I cannot see anything radical in the idea of extending it, though making it go continuously from the Gulf to the Pacific might be extreme, I am pretty sure that option has already been taken off the table. I can also see the description of a "wall" or a "concrete wall" or an Israel like wall could be seen as extreme.

The cost of $5 billion has been bandied about as some kind of exorbitant waste, yet when viewed in light of the annual budget it is minuscule and when viewed in light of the cost of crime committed by illegal aliens that came across that border it is also minuscule (about 10%).

No one is disputing the fact that Trump ran on a promise to build this "wall" and that those who voted for him support this. The idea that 40 million people in this country cannot view their vote as a referendum that impacts about 0.1% of the US budget for a single year is offensive and unreasonable to me.

Other than that their has been a lot of hysterical rhetoric that infers the absolute worst motives of each side and the slander is off the charts. For what? We already have border security, that isn't changing. We already have a barrier, that fundamental fact isn't changing. We already have an immigration policy, that isn't changing.

Let me give you an example of what I heard today (though not on this forum thankfully). Don Trump Jr. used a zoo as an example that walls work in a tweet. I thought that was a valid response to the idea that walls are ineffective. They will certainly limit and stop some of the traffic. No one is suggesting they'll stop tunnels, but tunnels are simple to find. No one is saying they'll stop airplanes or boats, but one would think that is obvious. No one is saying that they will stop cars and trucks, but focusing the border security on these points allows us to devote more manpower to ports and crossings. So Zeek has asked for proof that walls are effective -- Israel has used them effectively and there are many other obvious examples like Zoos where they work as well.

But that is not how this person saw the tweet. He described it as an insult to Mexico, describing everyone in the country, not just the illegal aliens trying to cross into the US, but everyone as being an animal. The amount of anger and vitriol is off the charts.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

To sum up -- we have had a fence/barrier on the Mexican border for many years now without anyone saying one peep about racism, insults to Mexico, waste of money, ineffective, etc. This barrier is in high traffic areas like El Paso, but in the more remote parts of the border it isn't there. I cannot see anything radical in the idea of extending it, though making it go continuously from the Gulf to the Pacific might be extreme, I am pretty sure that option has already been taken off the table. I can also see the description of a "wall" or a "concrete wall" or an Israel like wall could be seen as extreme.

The cost of $5 billion has been bandied about as some kind of exorbitant waste, yet when viewed in light of the annual budget it is minuscule and when viewed in light of the cost of crime committed by illegal aliens that came across that border it is also minuscule (about 10%).

No one is disputing the fact that Trump ran on a promise to build this "wall" and that those who voted for him support this. The idea that 40 million people in this country cannot view their vote as a referendum that impacts about 0.1% of the US budget for a single year is offensive and unreasonable to me.

Other than that their has been a lot of hysterical rhetoric that infers the absolute worst motives of each side and the slander is off the charts. For what? We already have border security, that isn't changing. We already have a barrier, that fundamental fact isn't changing. We already have an immigration policy, that isn't changing.

Let me give you an example of what I heard today (though not on this forum thankfully). Don Trump Jr. used a zoo as an example that walls work in a tweet. I thought that was a valid response to the idea that walls are ineffective. They will certainly limit and stop some of the traffic. No one is suggesting they'll stop tunnels, but tunnels are simple to find. No one is saying they'll stop airplanes or boats, but one would think that is obvious. No one is saying that they will stop cars and trucks, but focusing the border security on these points allows us to devote more manpower to ports and crossings. So Zeek has asked for proof that walls are effective -- Israel has used them effectively and there are many other obvious examples like Zoos where they work as well.

But that is not how this person saw the tweet. He described it as an insult to Mexico, describing everyone in the country, not just the illegal aliens trying to cross into the US, but everyone as being an animal. The amount of anger and vitriol is off the charts.

So .... chant it out loud bro ZNP. Let's hear it :

Build that wall! Build that wall! Build that wall!

And:

Make Mexico pay for it! Make Mexico pay for it! Make Mexico pay for it!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

So .... chant it out loud bro ZNP. Let's hear it :

Build that wall! Build that wall! Build that wall!

And:

Make Mexico pay for it! Make Mexico pay for it! Make Mexico pay for it!

The big push in HS education nationally is for students to understand how to write an argumentative essay which includes both claims and counter claims.

What I have noticed though is that most people who discuss these issues are incapable of doing that, even among those who should be teaching others by now.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

So .... chant it out loud bro ZNP. Let's hear it :

Build that wall! Build that wall! Build that wall!

And:

Make Mexico pay for it! Make Mexico pay for it! Make Mexico pay for it!

Trump's wall is a metaphor. It was his most popular campaign promise. He didn't deliver on it for 2 years when the Republicans dominated Congress. If he doesn't deliver something that he can call his wall in the next two years the Democrats can use it against him in the 2020 campaign. If he can claim that he build the wall like he promised he'll base his campaign for reelection on it. That's primarily what this impasse is about. If the argument were just about border security Republicans and Democrats agree on a lot of things. This is about holding Trump to one term in the White House. You know like Mitch McConnell tried to do to Barack Obama by blocking his legislative agenda.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump's wall is a metaphor. It was his most popular campaign promise. He didn't deliver on it for 2 years when the Republicans dominated Congress. If he doesn't deliver something that he can call his wall in the next two years the Democrats can use it against him in the 2020 campaign. If he can claim that he build the wall like he promised he'll base his campaign for reelection on it. That's primarily what this impasse is about. If the argument were just about border security Republicans and Democrats agree on a lot of things. This is about holding Trump to one term in the White House. You know like Mitch McConnell tried to do to Barack Obama by blocking his legislative agenda.

I agree this shutdown is simply a political game using people's lives as pawns. It is outrageous.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I agree this shutdown is simply a political game using people's lives as pawns. It is outrageous.

Politics rules in Washington DC!? I'm shocked. It's a game both sides are playing. Real people are getting hurt? What else is new? You weren't born yesterday, were you? It's a good thing the US Constitution prevents this sort of thing. The USA needs more "thoughts and prayers."

[Ohio]

Trump is the first President to take this drug scourge at the border seriously. Neither Clinton, "W", nor Obama did, each of them having their own issues with addictions. Trump, on the other hand, never gets credit for his disciplined rejection of all alcohol, tobacco, and drugs.

Also, the difference between a President who speaks from the heart versus those who merely read from teleprompters could not be more apparent. Trump takes campaign promises seriously, in contrast with the others.

Trump is serious about protecting the American people, while others merely gave us lip-service, so its no wonder that so many folks on the left got itchy ears from teleprompterisis.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

The USA needs more "thoughts and prayers."

From what I've seen so far, thoughts and prayers is what's used to avoid fixing obvious serious problems, that need action. They are a non-fix, and useless, except for doing nothing, and taking the known obviously needed action.

Thoughts and prayers? Bahahahahahahs !!!

Thoughts and prayers to avoid taking action are actually complicit in harms and deaths ... and those that use them in that way should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

From what I've seen so far, thoughts and prayers is what's used to avoid fixing obvious serious problems, that need action. They are a non-fix, and useless, except for doing nothing, and taking the known obviously needed action.

Thoughts and prayers? Bahahahahahahs !!!

Thoughts and prayers to avoid taking action are actually complicit in harms and deaths ... and those that use them in that way should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Well duh. I thought that was obvious. You seem to have no ear for ironies other than your own. Bahaha your own self.

[ZNPaaneah]

So then for once we all (4) agree that this is simply a political game in which the common man suffers as usual. Democrats don't want Trump to get a "victory" which in my opinion is cowardice. If they actually believe it won't have any impact let him get his wall. It will take months, maybe even more than a year to build. But so what, you can point to the fact that there has been no improvement, the whole thing was empty promises and campaign on the fact that you were right and "I told you so". What are the democrats afraid of?

Sounds like hypocrisy, they are afraid it will work and the Republicans will get credit for actually doing something about violent crime.

I understand why Trump has to stay the course, I also understand why the other Republicans (in the Senate) need to line up with him, but what I don't understand is why the Democrats think this is worth shutting the govt down and messing with millions of American families.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I understand why Trump has to stay the course, I also understand why the other Republicans (in the Senate) need to line up with him, but what I don't understand is why the Democrats think this is worth shutting the govt down and messing with millions of American families.

How could the Democrats and their media ever agree with Trump since they spend all their time convincing their base that Trump is Hitler and Satan. Talk about cognitive dissonance! They agreed with the wall when Obama was president, but now is "different." They have all learned the art of "flip-flops" from the masters -- John Kerry and Hillary.

Anybody watch CNN's Jim Acosta clip standing next to a border wall in Texas and telling Americans that the border crisis is manufactured? Duhhhh?

Dumb as a rock Acosta unwittingly proved Trump's entire argument -- walls bring security, peace, and safety!

It is perhaps the greatest myth of the 21st century that Democratic leaders actually care for people. They use women, they use african Americans, they use the illegals, they use LGBTQ, they use the climate and the environment, etc. but all they really care for is power.

Just like Carl Sagan said, "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.”

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How could the Democrats and their media ever agree with Trump since they spend all their time convincing their base that Trump is Hitler and Satan. Talk about cognitive dissonance! They agreed with the wall when Obama was president, but now is "different." They have all learned the art of "flip-flops" from the masters -- John Kerry and Hillary.

Anybody watch CNN's Jim Acosta clip standing next to a border wall in Texas and telling Americans that the border crisis is manufactured? Duhhhh?

Dumb as a rock Acosta unwittingly proved Trump's entire argument -- walls bring security, peace, and safety!

It is perhaps the greatest myth of the 21st century that Democratic leaders actually care for people. They use women, they use african Americans, they use the illegals, they use LGBTQ, they use the climate and the environment, etc. but all they really care for is power.

Just like Carl Sagan said, "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.”

Good post bro Ohio, tho methinks it's too narrowly applied. Methinks there's more bamboozled than just the Demmies.

Example : The GoFundMe for Trump's wall. Trump supporters have pored money into it, to the tune of more than $20 million. The person who created the page is Brian Kolfage, a right-wing nutjob decorated vet.

First off, the government can't take gifts. Then there's the matter that Kolfage has a history of conning money from right wing suckers, on other GoFundMe accounts, masquerading as good causes, but actually enriching him.

Same with this wall GoFundMe. It's got the right bamboozled, just like you claim the left is bamboozled.

It's small minds, whether left or right, that only sees one as right and the other as wrong. No one has a corner on either.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Good post bro Ohio, tho methinks it's too narrowly applied. Methinks there's more bamboozled than just the Demmies.

Example : The GoFundMe for Trump's wall. Trump supporters have pored money into it, to the tune of more than $20 million. The person who created the page is Brian Kolfage, a right-wing nutjob decorated vet.

First off, the government can't take gifts. Then there's the matter that Kolfage has a history of conning money from right wing suckers, on other GoFundMe accounts, masquerading as good causes, but actually enriching him.

Same with this wall GoFundMe. It's got the right bamboozled, just like you claim the left is bamboozled.

It's small minds, whether left or right, that only sees one as right and the other as wrong. No one has a corner on either.

Why is a GOFUNDME page a bamboozle?

Did you ever think that perhaps some Americans are so concerned about border security that they are willing to pay above and beyond all the taxes we already pay?

Have you lost the ability to objectively think about the issues? Any idea how many billions our g'ment wastes every year? Southwest cities are being destroyed by this blight of crime from illegal aliens.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

...what I don't understand is why the Democrats think this is worth shutting the govt down and messing with millions of American families.

I already explained it to you. You apparently don't get it because of your partisan bias which you seem to be unaware of.

As Roger Cohen observed:

When Trump was in business, his shtick was stiffing contractors. If confronted, he would try some bombast and storm out of meetings, as he did the other day with congressional leaders, ending talks on the partial government shutdown caused by a crisis he has manufactured. His shtick now is stiffing all Americans. The technique is the same: Keep reality at a distance through hyperactive fakery.

Trump has offered the Dems nothing worth making a deal. Where's the "art" in that?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

I already explained it to you. You apparently don't get it because of your partisan bias which you seem to be unaware of.

As Roger Cohen observed:

When Trump was in business, his shtick was stiffing contractors. If confronted, he would try some bombast and storm out of meetings, as he did the other day with congressional leaders, ending talks on the partial government shutdown caused by a crisis he has manufactured. His shtick now is stiffing all Americans. The technique is the same: Keep reality at a distance through hyperactive fakery.

Trump has offered the Dems nothing worth making a deal. Where's the "art"?

Trump offered the Dems' beloved DACA's a pathway to citizenship.

The Dems held up the DACA's as a shtick for years until Trump came along and offered to give them not just 800K but 1,800K DACA's. Since then the Dems don't talk about DACA's anymore. Why is that?

They are the party of RESIST. That's what they have told us all along.

I find it a little humorous when you accuse ZNP of "partisan bias" towards Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I already explained it to you. You apparently don't get it because of your partisan bias which you seem to be unaware of.

As Roger Cohen observed:

When Trump was in business, his shtick was stiffing contractors. If confronted, he would try some bombast and storm out of meetings, as he did the other day with congressional leaders, ending talks on the partial government shutdown caused by a crisis he has manufactured. His shtick now is stiffing all Americans. The technique is the same: Keep reality at a distance through hyperactive fakery.

Trump has offered the Dems nothing worth making a deal. Where's the "art" in that?

Oh, that is what I can't see? Trump has manufactured a shutdown because his MO is to stiff workers and he can't go two years without seeing that someone does not get paid?

I did not realize you had been committed and were posting from the looney bin. Good for you. If this is part of the therapy kudos to your therapist.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump offered the Dems' beloved DACA's a pathway to citizenship.

The Dems held up the DACA's as a shtick for years until Trump came along and offered to give them not just 800K but 1,800K DACA's. Since then the Dems don't talk about DACA's anymore. Why is that?

They are the party of RESIST. That's what they have told us all along.

I find it a little humorous when you accuse ZNP of "partisan bias" towards Trump.

Over and over again Trump has proved to be an unreliable negotiator. He has repeatedly used DACA as bait only to switch when negotiations were underway.

IF you think Dems don't talk about DACA any more it's because you only consume Fake News.

As the January shutdown loomed, Trump bashed Democrats for withholding votes because of DACA. On January 12 he tweeted:

"Sadly, Democrats want to stop paying our troops and government workers in order to give a sweetheart deal, not a fair deal, for DACA. Take care of our Military, and our Country, FIRST!"

I think we all have our biases. They are based on our backgrounds, our expereince and it's limits and our choices. The degree that we recognize them is an important aspect of our self-awareness. To me you seem to be more biased then ZNP because he reads widely including opposing views.

I do likewise and I respect intelligently thought-out conservative views which I often entertain. One way I do this is by watching debates between prominent thinkers with opposing points of view on YouTube.

From what you post you only seem to consume stuff that confirms your biases.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Have you lost the ability to objectively think about the issues?

Yes. I did. And I've been working on that ability since leaving the LC. I think I've come a long way, but maybe not far enough for you. I'll keep trying to do better. In the meantime, thanks for your grace.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Any idea how many billions our g'ment wastes every year?

No! But I have read of $500.00 dollar hammers, trillions on unnecessary wars, and things like that.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Southwest cities are being destroyed by this blight of crime from illegal aliens.

Then why are the border state members of congress against the wall?

"There are nine members of the House of Representatives whose districts lie along the US-Mexico border.

It is perhaps not surprising that the eight Democrats oppose President Donald Trump's signature campaign pledge.

But the one Republican congressman - whose district stretches for 820 miles (1,320km) along the border - is also hostile."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46815569

Originally Posted by Ohio

I find it a little humorous when you accuse ZNP of "partisan bias" towards Trump.

Yeah. There's no trace of partisanship out here.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

OI think we all have our biases. They are based on our backgrounds, our expereince and it's limits and our choices. The degree that we recognize them is an important aspect of our self-awareness. To me you seem to be more biased then ZNP because he reads widely including opposing views.

And for a moment there ... I thought you might actually be ready to admit something ... but then just as quickly ... you return to your old ways.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

No! But I have read of $500.00 dollar hammers, trillions on unnecessary wars, and things like that.

My understanding is that they don't actually pay $500 for a hammer, rather those inflated bills are designed to cover up secret programs. If you notice most if not all of those kind of bills are with the Pentagon.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah. There's no trace of partisanship out here.

Thanks for that vote of confidence. Really appreciate it. I try my best to be fair and balanced.

[ZNPaaneah]

Just want to remind everyone of a few things:

1. My position is that 9/11 was an inside job that involved people at the highest levels of our government closely connected to President Bush.

2. I also strongly agree with those that say JFK assassination was a CIA conspiracy.

So I do not dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand. But Trump wants to shut down the government because he enjoys stiffing those working for him like the Secret Service?! Seriously? Even if he is not the one paying them?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Thanks for that vote of confidence. Really appreciate it. I try my best to be fair and balanced.

"Fair, Balanced, and Unafraid." Like FNC anchor Bret Baier?

[awareness]

Mexico won't pay for it. Congress won't pay for it. Republicans didn't pay for it. Democrats won't pay for it. Taxpayers won't pay for it. The executive branch can't appropriate funds ...

And even GoFundMe won't pay for it. It's giving back the $20 million to donors.

I know he thinks he's always a winner, but not this time.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Mexico won't pay for it. Congress won't pay for it. Republicans didn't pay for it. Democrats won't pay for it. Taxpayers won't pay for it. The executive branch can't appropriate funds ...

And even GoFundMe won't pay for it. It's giving back the $20 million to donors.

I know he thinks he's always a winner, but not this time.

What about the millions who want border security? Just screw 'em eh?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What about the millions who want border security? Just screw 'em eh?

Everybody wants border security. But a majority don't want the wall.

You may be among the minority. But so am I. I think we should make Mexico our 51st state. Then we'd have a shorter southern border security concern. And if we must build a wall, a much shorter one.

[zeek]

More obstruction of justice by President Wallnut:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/13/u...testimony.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Everybody wants border security. But a majority don't want the wall.

Oh the tyranny of the "majority" as told to us by the media.

Isn't that why we have elections? Don't they have consequences?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh the tyranny of the "majority" as told to us by the media.

Right. Their mission is to persecute people like yourself.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Isn't that why we have elections? Don't they have consequences?

Yes. The last one had consequences for Trump that he is attempting to overcome. Hence , his partial government shutdown over the symbolic wall.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

President Wallnut:

Well he's certainly a wall nut of some kind. He lies so much it's hard to tell.

Obviously he wants a wall. And he wants somebody, anybody, to pay for it ... except himself. To hear him tell -- and not his hidden tax returns -- he's certainly rich enough to pay for it. If he wants it so bad let him pay for it.

[zeek]

Surprise surprise--Trump's tax cuts did not pay for themselves in 2018 as promised.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/b...=headline&te=1

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Surprise surprise--Trump's tax cuts did not pay for themselves in 2018 as promised.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/b...=headline&te=1

But it paid the rich and corporations, who care more about their bottom line than they do for our country. Obviously the tax cut wasn't for our government and/or country. So those responsible for the tax cut are complicit in bringing down our country and economy, and adding to our debt. Republicans have a track record of doing that. And I never even got trickled upon.

[zeek]

"I have the absolute right to do national emergency if I want,” Donald Trump told reporters last week." Donald Trump

Absolute right? What, is Trump claiming the divine right of a king? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

"I have the absolute right to do national emergency if I want,” Donald Trump told reporters last week." Donald Trump

Absolute right? What, is Trump claiming the divine right of a king? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings

Ask the over 80 percent of evangelicals that voted for Trump if he has divine right?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

Ask the over 80 percent of evangelicals that voted for Trump if he has divine right?

How ironic is it that so many Evangelical Christians, rejecting the ethics of the sermon on the mount, have embraced the Nietzschean transvaluation of morals in the person of Donald Trump as the blond beast who overcomes by animal cunning and cruelty the slave morality of the democratic herd?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

How ironic is it that so many Evangelical Christians, rejecting the ethics of the sermon on the mount, have embraced the Nietzschean transvaluation of morals in the person of Donald Trump as the blond beast who overcomes by animal cunning and cruelty the slave morality of the democratic herd?

Well that's certainly a mouthful.

Christians who read their Bible know who the father of lies is. You'd think their Christian values would prevent them from embracing such a compulsive and obvious liar.

Sure, everyone lies sometimes, and politicians are known for it, but Trump has taken it into the stratosphere.

Therefore, Trump has no divine right, as he's of the father of lies. How Christians can support the father of lies is beyond me.

Jesus would say of Trump :

Joh_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

[zeek]

State of the Union? Fractured.

[zeek]

Last night Trump's attorney Giuliani didn't rule out the possibility that members of the Trump campaign or administration colluded with Russia. Anybody and everybody can be thrown under the bus to save Trump. He's only defending Trump. Remember when Nixon took the step of admitting that a crime had been committed by his campaign but cliaming he knew nothing about it? It was the beginning of the end. That's where Trump is now. What about Trump's children? Are they expendible too? We'll soon see.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Last night Trump's attorney Giuliani didn't rule out the possibility that members of the Trump campaign or administration colluded with Russia. Anybody and everybody can be thrown under the bus to save Trump. He's only defending Trump. Remember when Nixon took the step of admitting that a crime had been committed by his campaign but cliaming he knew nothing about it? It was the beginning of the end. That's where Trump is now. What about Trump's children? Are they expendible too? We'll soon see.

That only flies while he is in office, once he is out he is fair game. The only leverage he has right now is to get a pardon from Pence and that is only if the trial is concluded in the next two years.


He can throw these people under the bus, get them convicted, and then pardon them. But if he does that his trial will go into the next term. One theoretical option is to negotiate for his children in exchange for resigning, and then have Pence pardon him. But Mueller and the Justice dept will have to agree.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That only flies while he is in office, once he is out he is fair game. The only leverage he has right now is to get a pardon from Pence and that is only if the trial is concluded in the next two years.

He can throw these people under the bus, get them convicted, and then pardon them. But if he does that his trial will go into the next term. One theoretical option is to negotiate for his children in exchange for resigning, and then have Pence pardon him. But Mueller and the Justice dept will have to agree.

Whoa, wait a minute.

Trump is guilty until proven innocent? Due process abandoned? Apparently for you guys.

OK. I'll settle for that. Since you're so enraged by him.

But where is Mueller's evidence? Nothing here? No "there, there" going on 3 years?

So sad for you guys.

Even media outlets are now bracing you for Mueller's "anti-climatic" report.

But be comforted!

You still have the constitutional freedom to call Trump a racist, white supremacist, anti-semite, xenophobe, wall-nut, etc.

They said worse about Jesus, and perhaps all Christians throughout history. Lincoln and Reagan and Bush too.

It's just what the left does.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They said worse about Jesus, and perhaps all Christians throughout history. Lincoln and Reagan and Bush too.

It's just what the left does.

Who cares what the left does? It matters what the law does.

But look what the Christian right does :

Michael Cohen hired evangelical university's IT consultant for $50,000 to RIG early online polls for Trump

The conservative "Christian" Liberty University rigs polls for Trump, thus joining the father of lies :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-Trump.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Who cares what the left does? It matters what the law does.

But look what the Christian right does :

Michael Cohen hired evangelical university's IT consultant for $50,000 to RIG early online polls for Trump

The conservative "Christian" Liberty University rigs polls for Trump, thus joining the father of lies :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-Trump.html

Conservative Christians are now all guilty of breaking the law because a British Tabloid has accused two pollsters of "rigging polls."

Seriously?

And Trump is "guilty of colluding with the Russians" because Democratic operatives sent that Russian lobbyist to Trump Tower to meet with Jared and Junior, promising dirt but seeking adoption help?

You guys ought to start believing in something a little more reliable. Why not start with something proven and time-tested like the Bible?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Conservative Christians are now all guilty of breaking the law because a British Tabloid has accused two pollsters of "rigging polls."

Seriously?

And Trump is "guilty of colluding with the Russians" because Democratic operatives sent that Russian lobbyist to Trump Tower to meet with Jared and Junior, promising dirt but seeking adoption help?

You guys ought to start believing in something a little more reliable. Why not start with something proven and time-tested like the Bible?

We should believe the hiding man's Bible?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Whoa, wait a minute.

Trump is guilty until proven innocent? Due process abandoned? Apparently for you guys..

That is still a valid complaint for you, but in my opinion the weight of the evidence is piling up. Also, resigning is not an admission of guilt, only facilitating justice -- allowing the wheels of justice to turn. Anyone who is going to trial runs the risk of being found guilty and should weigh all their options.

Originally Posted by Ohio

But where is Mueller's evidence? Nothing here? No "there, there" going on 3 years?

I think there has been a steady movement from the fringe to the center, getting closer and closer to the oval office. I commend Mueller for his lack of leaks and not playing a game with the press. Even so what we do know for a fact is compelling.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Even media outlets are now bracing you for Mueller's "anti-climatic" report.

But be comforted!

You still have the constitutional freedom to call Trump a racist, white supremacist, anti-semite, xenophobe, wall-nut, etc.

They said worse about Jesus, and perhaps all Christians throughout history. Lincoln and Reagan and Bush too.

It's just what the left does.

Whoa! Did you just compare insulting Trump to insulting Jesus?

You are quoting my post, so in what post did I call Trump "a racist, white supremacist, anti-semite, xenophobe, wall-nut, etc"?

I have never called him these things because I don't think it is true.

A racist -- in my opinion he takes advantage of others, uses them, and abuses them. Who better to abuse than someone who is disadvantaged. So in that sense he likes to deport illegal aliens because that keeps the ones he employs in line. But that is simply my opinion.

White supremacist -- these guys are ideologues, Trump is anything but an ideologue. In his opinion life if a game, you win by getting the better of others, and you keep score by your wealth and fame. Once again, only my opinion, but he is amoral and will use anyone, even white supremacists, to "win". Just another example of how he uses others.

Anti-semite -- far too much evidence that this is not true to balance out the evidence it is. Again, I don't think he is motivated by religion, faith, or morals. Simply another group he can use to advance his own prospects of "winning". So an opportunist, not an anti-semite.

Xenophobe/wall-nut -- I think this is due to Trump doing a terrible job making a case for the wall. In my opinion after these last shootings the Republicans went to the NRA and said they had to do something, you have to give us something we can do. The NRA decided that illegal immigrants were fair game, 13% of gang violence is from illegal immigrants, they cross the border multiple times, so there you go, seal the border. When it comes to gun legislation to reduce violence this is the best the Republicans can come up with (still better than what the Democrats have come up with).

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Conservative Christians are now all guilty of breaking the law because a British Tabloid has accused two pollsters of "rigging polls."

It was a Drudge link ... in fact go to Drudgereport right now and the Headline is, Did Trump Bribe Drudge

Originally Posted by Ohio

And Trump is "guilty of colluding with the Russians" because Democratic operatives sent that Russian lobbyist to Trump Tower to meet with Jared and Junior, promising dirt but seeking adoption help?

Well that certainly deserves a big Bahahahahahaha

Originally Posted by Ohio

You guys ought to start believing in something a little more reliable. Why not start with something proven and time-tested like the Bible?

Where do you think I got the father of lies? Did you miss that in the Bible? Jesus is about truth, not lies.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is still a valid complaint for you, but in my opinion the weight of the evidence is piling up. Also, resigning is not an admission of guilt, only facilitating justice -- allowing the wheels of justice to turn. Anyone who is going to trial runs the risk of being found guilty and should weigh all their options.

I think there has been a steady movement from the fringe to the center, getting closer and closer to the oval office. I commend Mueller for his lack of leaks and not playing a game with the press. Even so what we do know for a fact is compelling.

Whoa! Did you just compare insulting Trump to insulting Jesus?

You are quoting my post, so in what post did I call Trump "a racist, white supremacist, anti-semite, xenophobe, wall-nut, etc"?

Sorry to quote you and then rant about Democrats. My bad.

But regarding your comment, "steady movement from the fringe to the center," I would disagree, using Mike Flynn's case. He was the first. He resigned under media scrutiny from deep state leaks for "lying to Pence." He was at the center. If there was a "Russian collusion," it must be thru him. He talked to the Russians and went there.

Yet for 2 years he has been strung along. Initially he was set up by Rosenstein and Strzok. Never read his Miranda rights. They informed him that he needed no counsel present. They wanted him "at ease." Even Strzok's report included Flynn was honest and straight forward. But Flynn had been illegally wire-tapped, and his rights violated, yet no one was made accountable. The DOJ/FBI top echelon broke all the laws, then get fired, and Flynn is still under suspicion.

This top "colluder" Flynn, though guilty of nothing, suffered extended prosecutorial abuse and misconduct. Though charged with no actual crimes, they forced him to into bankruptcy, so that he eventually pleads to lying, a so-called "process" crime, supposedly giving Mueller a "victory." For over a year they have delayed his sentencing, strung him along, for what? The first victim of a deep-state coup.

What about Manafort? Where's the collusion? He got convicted of tax fraud ten years before working with Trump. I bet every single politician in Wash DC could be convicted of tax fraud. Mueller spent $20 million to convict Manafort of not paying $1.4 million in taxes ten years ago. Seriously? How does that implicate Trump? Why don't Mueller go checkout the Podesta Brothers taxes. And the Clintons. That's just a start.

But apparently Trump hate prevents you from seeing the corruption here.

Is this not the greatest threat to our democratic process? I get it you hate the guy, but was he not elected by the American people? The Democrats called for impeachment before he even took office.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry to quote you and then rant about Democrats. My bad.

But regarding your comment, "steady movement from the fringe to the center," I would disagree, using Mike Flynn's case. He was the first. He resigned under media scrutiny from deep state leaks for "lying to Pence." He was at the center. If there was a "Russian collusion," it must be thru him. He talked to the Russians and went there.

Yet for 2 years he has been strung along. Initially he was set up by Rosenstein and Strzok. Never read his Miranda rights. They informed him that he needed no counsel present. They wanted him "at ease." Even Strzok's report included Flynn was honest and straight forward. But Flynn had been illegally wire-tapped, and his rights violated, yet no one was made accountable. The DOJ/FBI top echelon broke all the laws, then get fired, and Flynn is still under suspicion.

This top "colluder" Flynn, though guilty of nothing, suffered extended prosecutorial abuse and misconduct. Though charged with no actual crimes, they forced him to into bankruptcy, so that he eventually pleads to lying, a so-called "process" crime, supposedly giving Mueller a "victory." For over a year they have delayed his sentencing, strung him along, for what? The first victim of a deep-state coup.

What about Manafort? Where's the collusion? He got convicted of tax fraud ten years before working with Drumpf. I bet every single politician in Wash DC could be convicted of tax fraud. Mueller spent $20 million to convict Manafort of not paying $1.4 million in taxes ten years ago. Seriously? How does that implicate Drumpf? Why don't Mueller go checkout the Podesta Brothers taxes. And the Clintons. That's just a start.

But apparently Drumpf hate prevents you from seeing the corruption here.

Is this not the greatest threat to our democratic process? I get it you hate the guy, but was he not elected by the American people? The Democrats called for impeachment before he even took office.

No, not Trump hate which is preventing me. What is stopping me is this assertion that everyone is ganging up on this poor billionaire who also happens to be the President of the US and "the most powerful man on the planet". Ask yourself, why would Jeff Sessions, a friend of Trump recuse himself if there was absolutely no basis to do so?

I am more than willing to consider a "deep state coup" but the idea that they would drag it out for years, with the most powerful man, a man who is certainly rich enough to pay for a lawyer, a man who can easily get his side of the story out, sorry but that concept strains all credulity.

You remind me of the complaints during the whitewater investigation. They complained that they were being bankrupted, that no evidence of criminal behavior on their part was found, yada yada yada. The truth is there was plenty of smoke around Clinton to warrant an investigation into a fire, and what we found was a lot of seedy corruption. I don't accept the argument that "everyone is guilty of tax fraud", or "every politician is corrupt". I am happy we did the Whitewater investigation, on the one hand Clinton could claim no crime, on the other we realized Hillary was a crook. Likewise I am just as happy we are doing this investigation. Trump promised to show us his tax returns and I think that is a promise the entire US population would like to see him keep.

I do agree that there is a lot of Trump hate out there blinding them. Awareness is railing about how bad Trump is and how could anyone vote for him, "oh the hypocrisy!" Really, can any born again Christian justify voting for Hillary Clinton? Of course not. So in her case they argue you shouldn't use the Bible as a standard, but for Trump they should have? Who is the real hypocrite?

Democratic lawmakers vowed to investigate allegations published in a report late Thursday that claimed President Donald Trump personally ordered his former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about a potential real-estate development in Moscow.

The report, published by BuzzFeed News, claimed Trump directed Cohen to mislead Congress about when negotiations to launch a condo project in Russia's capital ended, as well as the extent of Trump's involvement in the deal. It later fell apart.

USA TODAY has not independently confirmed the report as of Friday morning.

If this is Michael Cohen as the source then it is a prime example of how these fat cats get away with the various crimes and why they hire slime bags like Cohen. No doubt they'll attack Cohen's credibility and it is difficult to convict based on Cohen's testimony. You always wonder why a billionaire wouldn't have an elite lawyer rather than this guy, they don't want someone who is elite or credible. Someone elite would not stoop into the gutter which is where Cohen operated, and you don't give someone credible your dirty little secrets in the event it is a "he said, you said".

[zeek]

How dare that Jezebel Pelosi deny the Great Man his Great Wall. Trump was ready to drop the wall meme that his handlers had created for him and didn't realize that to satisfy the Trumpers he must have his wall. Thanks to Hannity and Coulter for bringing him to his senses! So what if the wall is not really great. So what that his wall if built would be like so many so-called great historic remnants of the past, a monument to cruelty and madness. Something must be built that Trump can call his wall so that he can claim he won. Otherwise, he's a loser not a winner like he has always claimed. But, instead of making America great again as the Trump's handlers imagine, future generations will view Trump's wall as a symbol of the end of the American Empire.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No, not Trump hate which is preventing me. What is stopping me is this assertion that everyone is ganging up on this poor billionaire who also happens to be the President of the US and "the most powerful man on the planet". Ask yourself, why would Jeff Sessions, a friend of Trump recuse himself if there was absolutely no basis to do so?

I am more than willing to consider a "deep state coup" but the idea that they would drag it out for years, with the most powerful man, a man who is certainly rich enough to pay for a lawyer, a man who can easily get his side of the story out, sorry but that concept strains all credulity.

You remind me of the complaints during the whitewater investigation. They complained that they were being bankrupted, that no evidence of criminal behavior on their part was found, yada yada yada. The truth is there was plenty of smoke around Clinton to warrant an investigation into a fire, and what we found was a lot of seedy corruption. I don't accept the argument that "everyone is guilty of tax fraud", or "every politician is corrupt". I am happy we did the Whitewater investigation, on the one hand Clinton could claim no crime, on the other we realized Hillary was a crook. Likewise I am just as happy we are doing this investigation. Trump promised to show us his tax returns and I think that is a promise the entire US population would like to see him keep.

I do agree that there is a lot of Trump hate out there blinding them. Awareness is railing about how bad Trump is and how could anyone vote for him, "oh the hypocrisy!" Really, can any born again Christian justify voting for Hillary Clinton? Of course not. So in her case they argue you shouldn't use the Bible as a standard, but for Trump they should have? Who is the real hypocrite?

Democratic lawmakers vowed to investigate allegations published in a report late Thursday that claimed President Donald Trump personally ordered his former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about a potential real-estate development in Moscow.

The report, published by BuzzFeed News, claimed Trump directed Cohen to mislead Congress about when negotiations to launch a condo project in Russia's capital ended, as well as the extent of Trump's involvement in the deal. It later fell apart.

USA TODAY has not independently confirmed the report as of Friday morning.

If this is Michael Cohen as the source then it is a prime example of how these fat cats get away with the various crimes and why they hire slime bags like Cohen. No doubt they'll attack Cohen's credibility and it is difficult to convict based on Cohen's testimony. You always wonder why a billionaire wouldn't have an elite lawyer rather than this guy, they don't want someone who is elite or credible. Someone elite would not stoop into the gutter which is where Cohen operated, and you don't give someone credible your dirty little secrets in the event it is a "he said, you said".

OK, let me summarize your case against Trump, and why he must be guilty of something:

• He's a "fat cat," and everyone knows they get away with crimes
• He hired lawyers like Cohen, a slime bag, operating in the gutter
• He's a billionaire
• He should have hired an elite or credible lawyer (awareness said 99.4% of lawyers give the rest of them a bad name.)
• BuzzFeed published another bad article about Trump -- the same outfit that printed the "Steele Dossier," confirmed by Comey as "salacious and unverified"
• Trump never showed his tax returns
• Clintons were bad, so it is justifiable to investigate Trump
• Sessions was duped into recusing himself (Do you have any idea how much evidence exists that shows that Rosenstein, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Baker, Muller, Weissman, Ohr, and others should have all recused themselves, yet did not to protect their own crimes?)
• Trump is a powerful man
• Trump is rich enough to hire lawyers

This is evidence to appoint a special prosecutor? Serious? I don't even see smoke.

And let's not forget that Manafort cheated on his taxes, Flynn lied to Pence, and Russians manipulate Facebook adds.

[zeek]

WILL DONALD TRUMP BE IMPEACHED? ODDS SOAR AFTER REPORT PRESIDENT TOLD MICHAEL COHEN TO LIE TO CONGRESS!

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...BSTPS1hITc_-90

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

OK, let me summarize your case against Trump, and why he must be guilty of something:

I think I'll summarize my case myself, thanks

1. Manafort admitted that the 2016 campaign discussed peace plans for Ukraine with Russian intelligence.
2. Michael Cohen, Felix Slater and Andrii Artemenko conspired after the election to present a peace plan to Michael Flynn
3. Manafort shared polling data with Russian intelligence during the election and Russian intelligence used polling data to manipulate the election.
4. Manafort owed $17 million to a Russian oligarch who he then shared “private briefings” with. That is classic example of someone who has been compromised.
5. Russians stole emails and data analytics from the Democrats and may have shared this with the Trump campaign. Colluding with a foreign government to win a US election is fraud.
6. Associated with these revelations are a number of lies that have been told in the process of the investigation.
7. We also know of a high level meeting between senior Trump campaign officials and Russian intelligence operatives at Trump tower.
8. To date we (public) have learned of 97 contacts between Trump’s team and Russian operatives and 28 meetings.

This is more than enough to justify Mueller's investigation. It seems incomprehensible to me that a peace plan for the Ukraine could have been negotiated without Trump, Ivanka, Don Jr., and Jared somehow being involved. Perhaps not all, but the idea that Michael Cohen did this on his own is not believable.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by awareness

Who cares what the left does? It matters what the law does.

But look what the Christian right does :

Michael Cohen hired evangelical university's IT consultant for $50,000 to RIG early online polls for Trump

The conservative "Christian" Liberty University rigs polls for Trump, thus joining the father of lies :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-Trump.html

Update :

New statement from Liberty University, where John Gauger is an employee, in light of the new WSJ Michael Cohen/poll rigging story. School says Gauger is an “outstanding” employee >>

https://twitter.com/mj_lee/status/10...nding-employee

Watchman Nee was right : Christians lie. They must today be Cretans. Trump is most definitely a Cretan.

[awareness]

This just in :

Build that wall (of cash)! Trump campaign claims fundraising record with stunt promising to send 100,000 faux 'bricks' to Pelosi and Schumer

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...i-Schumer.html

Bro Ohio, you can send 5 or 10 or more. Then, symbolically, you'd be paying for the wall ... and could say,

Not Mexico, not congress, not republicans, not Democrats, not taxpayers, not GoFundMe, but somebody is paying for it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

WILL DONALD TRUMP BE IMPEACHED? ODDS SOAR AFTER REPORT PRESIDENT TOLD MICHAEL COHEN TO LIE TO CONGRESS!

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...BSTPS1hITc_-90

Thou shalt NOT bear false witness . . .

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thou shalt NOT bear false witness . . .

Primary reasons for impeachment are treason and bribery. If there was a quid pro quo with Russia concerning a Ukraine peace deal then that would constitute both treason and bribery.

We know that Russia worked to impact the election. We know that Trump campaign officials aided Russia by providing polling data. We know they met and talked together frequently. We know that they lied about this. We know that a number of these close confidants have confessed to various crimes.

That is certainly enough information for odds makers to begin giving odds on impeachment.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thou shalt NOT bear false witness . . .

Oh. Look at you. Playing "gotcha". The matter is disputed at the moment. https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...w-is-different If you were the executioner wielding an axe [as you would very much like to be, thou loving Christian man] I would already be headless.

[ZNPaaneah]

I think there is a very large consensus among both Democrats and Republicans, Liberals, US citizens, FBI, etc, that a crime was committed during the last presidential election with foreign countries illegally influencing our election.

It is irrelevant if they changed the outcome, the very fact that they did this means we have to have an investigation which then leads to safeguards so that this doesn't happen again and we can trust our election.

That alone justifies Mueller's investigation and any expense. If $5 billion for the barrier is "trivial" compared to our national budget then the cost of insuring the integrity of our elections is also trivial. I am very disappointed in our President that he doesn't share that opinion, but rather than viewing this through the lens of what is best for the country and the integrity of our Democratic systems.

So far this investigation has uncovered plenty to justify it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Primary reasons for impeachment are treason and bribery. If there was a quid pro quo with Russia concerning a Ukraine peace deal then that would constitute both treason and bribery.

Classic line -- note the "IF."

Sounds just like the media, every day, all day.

But you also have jumped to numerous conclusions. If the interim Trump administration officials are talking to Russsia and Ukraine, that is their job. Remember: smooth and peaceful transition of power.

Concerning the entire Trump witch hunt, take away the presumption of guilt, and there is nothing. Just a bunch of "IFs," process crimes, and old tax evasion. Look at the actions of Obama deep state officials and you will see endless crimes. Add to that the Mueller prosecutorial abuses of power.

ZNP, you of all others, should understand that Trump is despised just because he is not a part of the deep state swamp. Look at what he has had to endure by standing up against it! Are not you also one of those who believes Bush officials were part of 9/11? If the DS could pull that off, think of the power they wield behind the scenes.

Why would Trump instruct Cohen to lie to Congress about building hotels in Russia? There's no crime in negotiating with Russians. Didn't Obama scold Romney on national TV in 2012 for his out-of-date foreign policy thinking that Russia was a geo-political threat? Now, all of a sudden, Russia is our enemy again. Sounds to me like Russia is only "dangerous" when the deep state says they are.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think there is a very large consensus among both Democrats and Republicans, Liberals, US citizens, FBI, etc, that a crime was committed during the last presidential election with foreign countries illegally influencing our election.

It is irrelevant if they changed the outcome, the very fact that they did this means we have to have an investigation which then leads to safeguards so that this doesn't happen again and we can trust our election.

That alone justifies Mueller's investigation and any expense. If $5 billion for the barrier is "trivial" compared to our national budget then the cost of insuring the integrity of our elections is also trivial. I am very disappointed in our President that he doesn't share that opinion, but rather than viewing this through the lens of what is best for the country and the integrity of our Democratic systems.

So far this investigation has uncovered plenty to justify it.

Of course, foreign states have attempted to influence elections in the US. They have known this forever. Has not the US done the same? Are you serious here? Did you just wake up from an extended coma?

Did not the Obama Stste Department spend $300K to overthrow their sitting PM, Netanyahu? Who investigated them? No one!

US intelligence have determined Iran, Russia, China, NoKo all are actively working to influence elections in the USA. Look at the facts here, not the media hype. Why would Russia support the Trump election, after Obama/Clintons helped Putin's Rosatom to own and export 20% of US uranium reserves? Ever hear of intelligence dissembling? It's what KGB does. They publicly indicate support for Trump. When did we start believing Putin?

I agree that we need Mueller to investigate. Not process crimes and decades old tax fraud, but real collusion with the Russians. Start with the Clinton Foundation receiving $145 million from foreign states quid pro quo.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Classic line -- note the "IF."

Sounds just like the media, every day, all day.

But you also have jumped to numerous conclusions. If the interim Trump administration officials are talking to Russsia and Ukraine, that is their job. Remember: smooth and peaceful transition of power.

Concerning the entire Trump witch hunt, take away the presumption of guilt, and there is nothing. Just a bunch of "IFs," process crimes, and old tax evasion. Look at the actions of Obama deep state officials and you will see endless crimes. Add to that the Mueller prosecutorial abuses of power.

ZNP, you of all others, should understand that Trump is despised just because he is not a part of the deep state swamp. Look at what he has had to endure by standing up against it! Are not you also one of those who believes Bush officials were part of 9/11? If the DS could pull that off, think of the power they wield behind the scenes.

Why would Trump instruct Cohen to lie to Congress about building hotels in Russia? There's no crime in negotiating with Russians. Didn't Obama scold Romney on national TV in 2012 for his out-of-date foreign policy thinking that Russia was a geo-political threat? Now, all of a sudden, Russia is our enemy again. Sounds to me like Russia is only "dangerous" when the deep state says they are.

What does it matter to you that Putin and his minions sought to destabilize the USA by interfering with our elections? They did much the same thing in the UK brexit referendum. Putin furthered the cause of Christian nationalism. You are understandibly grateful.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

What does it matter to you that Putin and his minions sought to destabilize the USA by interfering with our elections? They did much the same thing in the UK brexit referendum. Putin furthered the cause of Christian nationalism. You are understandibly grateful.

Yeah ... Putin suddenly got religion!

With your constant animus towards God, the Bible, truth, faith, and Christians, why do you even post on this forum?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yeah ... Putin suddenly got religion!

"Putin has spent much of the past two decades building an enduring and loyal following in Russia, and alliances with some of the country's most powerful institutions — none, perhaps, more important that the Russian Orthodox Church, which has fully embraced his leadership.

It's all part of a dramatic turnaround for the Church, which just 30 years ago was only a marginal force in Russian society. The Soviets had sought to stamp out organized faith, stripping religion from education, arresting clergymen, and ordering the destruction of many of Russia's grand cathedrals, including one, Christ the Savior, that was demolished to make room for a public pool.

But under Putin, the Church has been making a comeback. More than 70% of Russians today identify as Russian Orthodox, up from 30% at the end of the Soviet Union. And huge swaths of land have been transferred back to religious ownership, with thousands of new churches being built or restored -- at a rate of almost three a day, by church figures. And Putin, by building loyalty among the leaders of a cherished institution, has arguably been the greatest beneficiary of this largesse."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfdxA9z0STI

Originally Posted by Ohio

With your constant animus towards God, the Bible, truth, faith, and Christians, why do you even post on this forum?

Look at my signature line. What more qualification must I have to post here, Mr. Inquisitor?

You mischaracterize me. Nevertheless, I forgive you. You know not what you do.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

[INDENT]Look at my signature line. What more qualification must I have to post here, Mr. Inquisitor?

Do we have to have certain qualifications to post here? Is being less than the least good enough?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Of course, foreign states have attempted to influence elections in the US. They have known this forever.

True, and those in power don't want to investigate because who knows, they might get exposed, so their is plenty hypocrisy here. Still, I am happy to finally get national attention on this issue, and perhaps a thorough investigation, that is yet to be determined. Waiting for the report.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Has not the US done the same? Are you serious here? Did you just wake up from an extended coma?

So many questions, let's see -- yes, yes, and no. Since the US has done the same we should expect to reap what we have sown which is all the more reason to be diligent to protect ourselves. We are not ignorant of Satan's devices.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Did not the Obama Stste Department spend $300K to overthrow their sitting PM, Netanyahu? Who investigated them? No one!

Then how do you know? Obviously someone dug into this.

Originally Posted by Ohio

US intelligence have determined Iran, Russia, China, NoKo all are actively working to influence elections in the USA. Look at the facts here, not the media hype. Why would Russia support the Trump election, after Obama/Clintons helped Putin's Rosatom to own and export 20% of US uranium reserves? Ever hear of intelligence dissembling? It's what KGB does. They publicly indicate support for Trump. When did we start believing Putin?

No idea what you are talking about. Who has started believing Putin? The investigation is because we don't trust Putin, not because we do.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I agree that we need Mueller to investigate. Not process crimes and decades old tax fraud, but real collusion with the Russians. Start with the Clinton Foundation receiving $145 million from foreign states quid pro quo.

That is great! We have found agreement! Absolutely, I am all for continuing the investigation into Obama, Clinton, Bush, etc. I would like to unravel the entire ball of string all the way back to JFK assassination and LBJ's Ballot 13 scam.

However, when they do the investigation they cannot just ignore other peripheral crimes they uncover. If they did that the country could scream an unfair bias. Why am I being persecuted for my taxes, and this guy skates with a multi million dollar liability?

Let me tell you what happened this year. Every year prior to this you report how much you gave to charity and spent on business, etc. It is relatively minor since I am a teacher. But this year NY changed the process and wanted to see checks and every single receipt. So I get a notice in June, talk to my accountant, resend stuff and get a notice in August, only by now my bank is going to charge me to get the check stubs. Even now I have no idea what the result is because they wanted me to assign a proxy to meet with them for a day, the amount of money we are talking about is too small to justify that, which I am sure they knew. So if they are going to treat me like this over a very small amount then I would be outraged if Manafort or some other fat cat describes a million dollar liability as "decades old tax fraud". Prosecute the crook and let all the other crooks be put on notice, you want to get involved in running the US govt, well we will prosecute crooks.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Yeah ... Putin suddenly got religion!

All are atheist before becoming converted. Hope you are praying for Putin. Trump would love you for it.

Originally Posted by Ohio

With your constant animus towards God, the Bible, truth, faith, and Christians, why do you even post on this forum?

Over politics? Can you be any more partisan?

Why brother? Do you see everything as black and white, good and evil, etc.? I know you aren't clinically bipolar, but seems you are spiritually, or maybe emotionally.

Or maybe this is like sports to you, and you've picked the team to cheer for. And of course the other team is evil.

I don't know. I think your animus is misdirected at brother zeek. Don't blame him for me.

I'm the one with animus towards God, the Bible, and Christians, so called ... or rather, the God and Bible of so called Christians.

For example, you can count on me having animus towards the God and Bible of Westboro Baptist Church. I don't even count them as being anything but Christian in name.

The same towards those that throw their open and public support behind today's father of lies : Father-figure-strongman-big-man Donald J. Trump ... like Jerry Falwell Jr, and Franklin Graham III. They too are Christian in name only -- our they wouldn't, couldn't, throw their support behind the father of lies.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is great! We have found agreement! Absolutely, I am all for continuing the investigation into Obama, Clinton, Bush, etc. I would like to unravel the entire ball of string all the way back to JFK assassination and LBJ's Ballot 13 scam.

However, when they do the investigation they cannot just ignore other peripheral crimes they uncover. If they did that the country could scream an unfair bias. Why am I being persecuted for my taxes, and this guy skates with a multi million dollar liability?

Obviously referring to Manafort, do you really believe a special prosecutor is the best vehicle to investigate tax fraud? Spend $20 million to bust a crook who owed $1.4 million? Is that not why the IRS has agents to do tax audits? I have been audited by both the IRS and the State, and won both because of documentation, but if Mueller's pitbull Andrew Weissman and company began investigating my life's history, I would quickly be broke and homeless, ready to plead out any minor offense to get my life back.

Apparently, you have some experience with the government breathing down your neck. It's not a fair fight. They control the media and have unlimited resources. Were it not for Mueller's and Weismann's history of prosecutorial misconduct, I might consider their work as necessary for our republic. Their history proves that they operate like the mob.

I know you have lost no love for Trump, but that don't mean the POTUS should be treated like he has been. Long before he and Clinton were even nominated by their parties, Hilary was cleared of all wrong doing, and Trump was being spied on and under FBI investigation.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I know you have lost no love for Trump, but that don't mean the POTUS should be treated like he has been. Long before he and Clinton were even nominated by their parties, Hilary was cleared of all wrong doing, and Trump was being spied on and under FBI investigation.

There are several possibilities, one is the one you present that Trump is completely innocent and is being persecuted by the deep state which controls the fake media.

Let us suppose you are correct. Is this fair? Yes, absolutely. We are all under the thumb of this deep state, who better to stand up and expose them than a man who has the financial resources (billionaire), political resources (president of the US), and the commitment to "make America great again". Perhaps this is what he is referring to. We were great until this deep state took over. The only way we can make America great again is if we first bind the strong man. So then, who will get into the ring with them? Trump of course. As he himself said "he prefers war heroes that don't get caught". He is an expert on war heroes, who better to fight this war.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There are several possibilities, one is the one you present that Trump is completely innocent and is being persecuted by the deep state which controls the fake media.

Let us suppose you are correct. Is this fair? Yes, absolutely. We are all under the thumb of this deep state, who better to stand up and expose them than a man who has the financial resources (billionaire), political resources (president of the US), and the commitment to "make America great again". Perhaps this is what he is referring to. We were great until this deep state took over. The only way we can make America great again is if we first bind the strong man. So then, who will get into the ring with them? Trump of course. As he himself said "he prefers war heroes that don't get caught". He is an expert on war heroes, who better to fight this war.

Interesting point of view. Thanks.

On Nov 8, 2016 my wife and I stood in line for an hour waiting to vote. Longest voting line I have ever seen in almost 50 years of voting. I struck up a conversation with a fascinating character next to me, with a breadth of experience and insight I have rarely met.

At one point he said three things, the election is about the SCOTUS, Trump will win, and Trump will be assassinated. He almost seemed to have the assurance of a prophet. I agreed somewhat with the first, I highly doubted the second, and I often pray concerning the third.

[ZNPaaneah]

“We cannot effectively control the border without barriers to slow down illegal entries,” he told Raddatz, adding that while a wall wouldn’t necessarily stop the illegal flow of drugs, which mainly come through legal port of entries and tunnels, a wall would allow Scott “to free up personnel to focus on that threat.” CBP San Diego Sector Chief Patrol Agent Rodney Scott

[Ohio]

duplicate post

[Ohio]

Vicious lies from the Left against Catholic teens from Kentucky.

This is what happens when the media is possessed by hate and no longer cares about facts, truth, or honesty.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Vicious lies from the Left against Catholic teens from Kentucky.

This is what happens when the media is possessed by hate and no longer cares about facts, truth, or honesty.

I think this is more appropriate for the fake news thread. This is the fruit of the fake news: hate, mistrust, misunderstanding, demonizing, etc.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think this is more appropriate for the fake news thread. This is the fruit of the fake news: hate, mistrust, misunderstanding, demonizing, etc.

"Misunderstanding" is too kind of a word to use when describing how a 16 year old has been treated for the simple exercise of his 1st Amendment rights at our nation's capital in front of the Lincoln Memorial by 5 "Indian" "adults" and the "social justice warriors" on social media.

This is more of a "lynching" than "fake news."

This decent young man did nothing but stand there, smile, and pray.

How long before mobs of "social justice warriors" begin roaming our streets looking for MAGA hats, Christians, conservatives, pro-life teenagers, or just "white-looking" boys and girls.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"Misunderstanding" is too kind of a word to use when describing how a 16 year old has been treated for the simple exercise of his 1st Amendment rights at our nation's capital in front of the Lincoln Memorial by 5 "Indian" "adults" and the "social justice warriors" on social media.

This is more of a "lynching" than "fake news."

This decent young man did nothing but stand there, smile, and pray.

How long before mobs of "social justice warriors" begin roaming our streets looking for MAGA hats, Christians, conservatives, pro-life teenagers, or just "white-looking" boys and girls.

I read the kid's statement. His story seems plausible from his point of view. I'm going to give him the benefit of a doubt. Likewise the man with the drum who was taking part in a march of indigenous people. Perhaps they can arrange a public reconciliation for the good of everybody. But, we are in a time of increasingly vicious political division. So I'm not optimistic about it.

This kind of behavior is common in crowds when factions clash. Their face-to-face standoff was typical male primate territorial behavior.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Vicious lies from the Left against Catholic teens from Kentucky.

This is what happens when the media is possessed by hate and no longer cares about facts, truth, or honesty.

I don't know how clean these Kentucky catholic boys are. They've got a history of racist antics :

"This won’t help Kentucky student Nick Sandmann’s case.

A photo said to be featuring Covington Catholic High School students clad in blackface during a 2015 basketball game made the rounds on Twitter Monday morning amid last week’s Indigenous Peoples March controversy.

The photo depicts several white students, some in blackface, shouting at an opposing black player.

While the photo’s origins couldn't be verified, the official Covington Catholic High School YouTube account published a video last January boasting its basketball school spirit, and several clips, including one from 2012, showcase attendees chanting in black face, a mockery of the opposing players. The school took down the video later on Monday."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...121-story.html

Given these crazy examples, maybe the MAGA hats are the new white hoods.

[Weighingin]

There is a conspiracy theory that hidden powerful ones are dividing the American people by stirring up controversies among us. If so, it seems they are succeeding.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know how clean these Kentucky catholic boys are. They've got a history of racist antics :

"This won’t help Kentucky student Nick Sandmann’s case.

A photo said to be featuring Covington Catholic High School students clad in blackface during a 2015 basketball game made the rounds on Twitter Monday morning amid last week’s Indigenous Peoples March controversy.

The photo depicts several white students, some in blackface, shouting at an opposing black player.

While the photo’s origins couldn't be verified, the official Covington Catholic High School YouTube account published a video last January boasting its basketball school spirit, and several clips, including one from 2012, showcase attendees chanting in black face, a mockery of the opposing players. The school took down the video later on Monday."

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...121-story.html

Given these crazy examples, maybe the MAGA hats are the new white hoods.

I've been to many HS sporting events, back in the day, and all of our opponents got "abused" by the fans. It was part of the game. They returned the favors. Same stuff happens in College and the pros. Apparently awareness has never been to a sporting event. Covington's school colors were black, so of course some would paint themselves black.

Our HS colors were green, so we had mascots painted in green. It was called "school spirit." If the color black is now racist, then apparently the colors red, brown, and yellow must also be, then all school sports should be abolished.

Check your clothing folks. Big Brother is now watching you. White shirts indicate you are a white supremacist. Black pants indicate you are a racist. Brown jackets indicate you are a xenophobe. Seriously? Have you really let the media do this to you? Talk about a divided society, must we all wear orange jumpsuits to virtue signal our political correctness?

But back to reality here, apparently awareness has not watched the video showing how the "Black Hebrew Israelites" instigated the entire sad ordeal at the Lincoln Memorial with their ugly taunts at those "pro-life" teenagers. But, as he always does, awareness follows the media to stand on the side of any who abuse white, conservative, religious, Republicans.

But who are these Hebrew Israelites?

Dressed in fringed black garb, some with scarves tied around their heads, they preached what to many were both abrasive and unfamiliar End Times messages — calling Native Americans literal descendants of the Israelite “Tribe of Gad,” the white students cursed “Edomites” and preaching that a nuclear apocalypse was around the corner.

How did this relatively obscure group shoot into the national spotlight?

They are members of The House of Israel, which draws from what scholars call Black Israelism, a complex American religious movement that can be dated to the 18th century, at least. Beliefs vary widely, but groups are bound together by the central tenet that African Americans are the literal descendants of the Israelites of the Bible and have been severed from their true heritage. A related belief holds that white people are Edomites, the genealogical descendants of Esau — the twin of Jacob. -- WaPo

[awareness]

Here's more on this bro Ohio :

Catholic high school at heart of Lincoln Memorial clash CLOSES after receiving threats as Trump backs its MAGA hat-wearing students - and the teenager at the center of the uproar gives first interview to NBC

Meanwhile, the same high school has now been called out for allowing students to wear black face at pep rallies over the last decade
Photographs show kids at 'blackout' themed events where they had painted themselves black and drawn white smiles
In one shocking image, they even goaded an African American player

I suppose the school color of black also included goading African Americans. But that has nothing to do with race.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Here's more on this bro Ohio :

Catholic high school at heart of Lincoln Memorial clash CLOSES after receiving threats as Trump backs its MAGA hat-wearing students - and the teenager at the center of the uproar gives first interview to NBC

Meanwhile, the same high school has now been called out for allowing students to wear black face at pep rallies over the last decade
Photographs show kids at 'blackout' themed events where they had painted themselves black and drawn white smiles
In one shocking image, they even goaded an African American player

I suppose the school color of black also included goading African Americans. But that has nothing to do with race.

I thought you could distinguish between African Americans and basketball players on their opponent's team. But I guess that was too hard for you.

It's so much easier to excuse the bad behavior of spiteful and immature adults, when you can accuse innocent pro-life Catholic school teenagers of racism.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Here's more on this bro Ohio :

Catholic high school at heart of Lincoln Memorial clash CLOSES after receiving threats as Trump backs its MAGA hat-wearing students - and the teenager at the center of the uproar gives first interview to NBC

Meanwhile, the same high school has now been called out for allowing students to wear black face at pep rallies over the last decade
Photographs show kids at 'blackout' themed events where they had painted themselves black and drawn white smiles
In one shocking image, they even goaded an African American player

I suppose the school color of black also included goading African Americans. But that has nothing to do with race.

Does this really have anything to do with Politics and the church? What, wear a MAGA hat and that means its politics? Why not start a thread "racism in America: real or imaginary?" and post it there?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Does this really have anything to do with Politics and the church?

Uhhh . . . Yeah . . . Seems to me right on topic.

Step back, and think about it.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Does this really have anything to do with Politics and the church?

Does this help?

Zealot who sparked DC clash says GOD started the fight and not him - and the Native American vet intervened to calm the situation, while the teen at the center says he should have walked away

The black man from Brooklyn who identified himself as 'Chief Ephraim Israel' of the House of Israel told the New York Post: 'The word of God — it sparked it all'

A radical Hebrew Israelite has admitted to sparking a heated row between protesters at the Lincoln Memorial on Friday while defending how he and fellow religious zealots berated a group of students from a Catholic high school but insists his vitriol was the 'word of God'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...peaks-out.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Does this help?

Zealot who sparked DC clash says GOD started the fight and not him - and the Native American vet intervened to calm the situation, while the teen at the center says he should have walked away

The black man from Brooklyn who identified himself as 'Chief Ephraim Israel' of the House of Israel told the New York Post: 'The word of God — it sparked it all'

A radical Hebrew Israelite has admitted to sparking a heated row between protesters at the Lincoln Memorial on Friday while defending how he and fellow religious zealots berated a group of students from a Catholic high school but insists his vitriol was the 'word of God'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...peaks-out.html

awareness, have you lost all sense of discernment? Why do you fill your mind with daily tabloid trash?

Watch the video. This nutcase believes he and his friends alone are true Israelites, and all white kids are Edomites, the incestuous children of Lot.

One of my takeaways from this episode -- the leftist media, even some RCC officials, demand that all white, conservative, Christian minors must back down and run from despicable protesters, supposedly behaving as "adults," but the old, leftest, obnoxious, non-white, adults are absolved of all responsibility, and are permitted to act out as delinquent children.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This nutcase believes he and his friends alone are true Israelites, and all white kids are Edomites, the incestuous children of Lot.

Well the MAGA boys aren't just kids, they're Kentucky hillbilly boys. And Ky is known for incest. So maybe the nutcase is right.

And I was in the LC, where I filled my mind with much worse than tabloid trash ... thank you.

[ZNPaaneah]

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

A teenager was accused of being abusive to these other adult protestors (lost tribe of Israel). However it has been shown to be the opposite, he was not abusive, rather these people from the "lost tribe of Israel" were the ones shouting insults, racist slurs, threats and abuse.

So what makes this "Politics and the Church". Well first of all the student in question is from a Catholic school. But the school denied any involvement, they have no policy that would support being abusive to others and no one is alleging they do. So much for the church, unless you want to say that the guy from "the lost tribe of Israel" represents the church. That would be typical of the alternative views forum but his views have nothing to do with "the church" as defined by the NT.

So then why is this Politics? The high school kid was wearing a MAGA hat, however, that means he did not vote 2 years ago if he is in HS today. Also, no one has pointed to a single policy of the Republicans which is biased against "the lost tribe of Israel". If anything Trump has been more supportive of Israel than the previous administration. So how is this political?

I think Ohio's point is that there is a political attack on Christians and those of the right. I would prefer to call it slander and fake news. It is disconcerting how quickly the media was willing to lash out at these kids only to then be exposed.

If someone from the KKK votes for a republican that doesn't mean that the republicans support this brand of racism, likewise if someone from the "lost tribe of Israel" votes for the democrats it doesn't mean they should be painted with the same brush. We have 350 million people in this country, we should expect a reasonable number of nut jobs. They are still citizens, entitled to their opinions, but just because a nut job claims that "the word of God" made him do what he did doesn't make it so.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

just because a nut job claims that "the word of God" made him do what he did doesn't make it so.

Hahaha ... so true brother, so true.

But wait a minute. Let's not forget the verse that is always thrown in my face concerning Israel :

Gen 12:3* And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:

We don't know if these actors are real Hebrew Israelite's or not. So maybe we should be careful.

At any rate, the story clearly has church associations, and politics as well. But if you want to move it, that's fine with me.

[ZNPaaneah]

I have had some experience with this "lost tribe of Israel" in NYC, I have seen them with tables outside the subway and also in Manhattan. I have tried to listen to them twice, but in both instances my experience was quite similar to what is portrayed in the news with screams of insults. In my very limited experience they are extremely racists and insulting. The message I picked up from my brief time with them is that they feel they are the elite people of God (similar to LC) and they are persecuted by the phony believers (everyone else, again similar to LC). However, the distinction between true believer and phony is simply the color of your skin, it is an extremely flesh centric religion. On top of that the person I was listening to in Manhattan was saying that all sins that a black person might have committed are not their fault but due to the oppression they have experienced by whites, so the real person responsible for all their sinful past are the whites. The very convenient doctrine of "you are responsible for all the sins I have committed".

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hahaha ... so true brother, so true.

But wait a minute. Let's not forget the verse that is always thrown in my face concerning Israel :

Gen 12:3* And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:

We don't know if these actors are real Hebrew Israelite's or not. So maybe we should be careful.

I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee is part of the covenant God made with Israel. According to Galatians we also have been blessed with believing Abraham so this is part of our blessing as well. From the video it was very clear that the kids from the school were the ones being cursed and now as the world sees what has happened the conclusion is to curse those that cursed those kids.

Originally Posted by awareness

At any rate, the story clearly has church associations, and politics as well. But if you want to move it, that's fine with me.

I have considered this more carefully as Ohio asked. On the surface it is obviously fake news (wake up people, a group of HS kids on a trip will have every single minute on video -- not going to be able to make up a story). When I watch the video the real story is the vile racism of "the lost tribe of Israel". The second lesser story is of some old native american claiming to be a Vietnam vet and lying about the kids. But the story they ran with was the lie and the only possible explanation is the kid was wearing a MAGA hat and those running with the story didn't realize they would be caught in a lie. So in this sense it does support the narrative Ohio has been pushing of this media bias towards all things Trump and all things Christian (Catholic school attending a pro life march).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Well the MAGA boys aren't just kids, they're Kentucky hillbilly boys. And Ky is known for incest. So maybe the nutcase is right.

Wow!

That's pretty mean-spirited. And you knew this for a fact before you wrote it?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have had some experience with this "lost tribe of Israel" in NYC, I have seen them with tables outside the subway and also in Manhattan. I have tried to listen to them twice, but in both instances my experience was quite similar to what is portrayed in the news with screams of insults. In my very limited experience they are extremely racists and insulting. The message I picked up from my brief time with them is that they feel they are the elite people of God (similar to LC) and they are persecuted by the phony believers (everyone else, again similar to LC). However, the distinction between true believer and phony is simply the color of your skin, it is an extremely flesh centric religion. On top of that the person I was listening to in Manhattan was saying that all sins that a black person might have committed are not their fault but due to the oppression they have experienced by whites, so the real person responsible for all their sinful past are the whites. The very convenient doctrine of "you are responsible for all the sins I have committed".

The lost tribe of Israel? What we had at the Lincoln Memorial was a clash of cultures, or tribalism on full display. There was the Hebrew tribe, the Catholic tribe, and Native American tribe. They all had their territory, and were all standing their ground.

The catholic kids can't be blamed. They grew up in Kentucky, which is a MEGA state. Thus the MEGA caps. They were also mimicking Trump, their hero, their personality cult leader. But they're just stupid kids, a hundred of them with just two chaperones. They certainly didn't make their catholic school look good.

But neither did the Hebrews make Israel look good, nor the Native American make Indians look good, even tho he was trying to defuse the clash.

In the end they were all bad actors. And they should all give us warning about thinking and acting in tribalistic ways. They all suffered from 'us/them syndrome,' like Lee's LC.

The Hebrews claimed to be teaching the kids. The whole thing should be lessons for us, to break free from tribalistic thinking.

But so far, no great leader -- Jesus, Paul, Buddha, or any other -- has been able to remove tribalism from human nature.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

The lost tribe of Israel? What we had at the Lincoln Memorial was a clash of cultures, or tribalism on full display. There was the Hebrew tribe, the Catholic tribe, and Native American tribe. They all had their territory, and were all standing their ground.

The catholic kids can't be blamed. They grew up in Kentucky, which is a MEGA state. Thus the MEGA caps. They were also mimicking Trump, their hero, their personality cult leader. But they're just stupid kids, a hundred of them with just two chaperones. They certainly didn't make their catholic school look good.

But neither did the Hebrews make Israel look good, nor the Native American make Indians look good, even tho he was trying to defuse the clash.

In the end they were all bad actors. And they should all give us warning about thinking and acting in tribalistic ways. They all suffered from 'us/them syndrome,' like Lee's LC.

The Hebrews claimed to be teaching the kids. The whole thing should be lessons for us, to break free from tribalistic thinking.

But so far, no great leader -- Jesus, Paul, Buddha, or any other -- has been able to remove tribalism from human nature.

I don't think you have actually watched the full video of what took place. From what I saw these kids were very well behaved for teenagers. The "lost tribe" were abhorrent and despicable. The native American didn't look bad, but later lied about way too much.

I really don't see how the kids could have acted any better, they were waiting for their bus so the idea they could have walked away is not nearly so accurate. On trips like this kids are told exactly where to be and where to wait.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't think you have actually watched the full video of what took place. From what I saw these kids were very well behaved for teenagers. The "lost tribe" were abhorrent and despicable. The native American didn't look bad, but later lied about way too much.

I really don't see how the kids could have acted any better, they were waiting for their bus so the idea they could have walked away is not nearly so accurate. On trips like this kids are told exactly where to be and where to wait.

It seemed to me that awareness just could not pass up the opportunity to pile on another group. In this case he could check off a bunch of boxes at once: male, white, young, happy, Kentuckian, Catholic, Hillbilly, Christian, conservative, pro-life, Trump supporter. Far too attractive of a target to pass over for actual facts.

ZNP, you and I are still attempting to appeal to facts, reason, truth, decency, and integrity. So far this approach has not been working out for us.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't think you have actually watched the full video of what took place. From what I saw these kids were very well behaved for teenagers. The "lost tribe" were abhorrent and despicable. The native American didn't look bad, but later lied about way too much.

I really don't see how the kids could have acted any better, they were waiting for their bus so the idea they could have walked away is not nearly so accurate. On trips like this kids are told exactly where to be and where to wait.

This is Trump’s America. The buck stops there.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It seemed to me that awareness just could not pass up the opportunity to pile on another group. In this case he could check off a bunch of boxes at once: male, white, young, happy, Kentuckian, Catholic, Hillbilly, Christian, conservative, pro-life, Trump supporter. Far too attractive of a target to pass over for actual facts.

ZNP, you and I are still attempting to appeal to facts, reason, truth, decency, and integrity. So far this approach has not been working out for us.

Than you should get your facts straight. Just one example : I never brought up pro-life. You did. I only checked off some of the boxes you presented.

But you can't resist attacking awareness ... with fake facts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Than you should get your facts straight. Just one example : I never brought up pro-life. You did. I only checked off some of the boxes you presented.

But you can't resist attacking awareness ... with fake facts.

They were at a pro-life rally at the Capital, and you have never voiced your opposition to abortion. 1+1=2

Not attacking, just pointing out the obvious. Given all the facts, I have concerns about anyone who would not defend these HS students. You even connected these kids with incest. You crossed too many lines here.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I don't think you have actually watched the full video of what took place. From what I saw these kids were very well behaved for teenagers. The "lost tribe" were abhorrent and despicable. The native American didn't look bad, but later lied about way too much.

I really don't see how the kids could have acted any better, they were waiting for their bus so the idea they could have walked away is not nearly so accurate. On trips like this kids are told exactly where to be and where to wait.

You must not have seen the footage of them sexually harassing women passing by or their racist taunts of Nathan Phillips. The chaperons let those boys get out of control.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

ZNP, you and I are still attempting to appeal to facts, reason, truth, decency, and integrity. So far this approach has not been working out for us.

I acknowledged way back on post 5197 that from Nick Sandmann's point of view, standing his ground probably made sense at the time and expressed the hope that the principle actors would publicly make peace for the good of all. You ignored that. Have you forgotten that Jesus blesses peacemakers?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

You must not have seen the footage of them sexually harassing women passing by or their racist taunts of Nathan Phillips. The chaperons let those boys get out of control.

Did not see any of that. Why not share a link to the video.

[ZNPaaneah]

Returning to our regularly scheduled program:

Trump associate Stone arrested, faces obstruction charge
ERIC TUCKER and CHAD DAY ERIC TUCKER and CHAD DAY 15 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Roger Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, was arrested in the special counsel's Russia investigation in a pre-dawn raid at his Florida home on Friday and was charged with lying to Congress and obstructing the probe.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Returning to our regularly scheduled program:

Trump associate Stone arrested, faces obstruction charge
ERIC TUCKER and CHAD DAY ERIC TUCKER and CHAD DAY 15 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Roger Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, was arrested in the special counsel's Russia investigation in a pre-dawn raid at his Florida home on Friday and was charged with lying to Congress and obstructing the probe.

Yeah I see the FBI is currently executing a search warrant at Stone's homes. I would think he would have seen this coming and destroyed any incriminating evidence by now though.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Yeah I see the FBI is currently executing a search warrant at Stone's homes. I would think he would have seen this coming and destroyed any incriminating evidence by now though.

How? Destroying evidence is a crime. Obstruction of justice is a crime -- that is what he is being charged with. They wouldn't have arrested him if they didn't have evidence of this, so there really is no way to destroy evidence. The idea that a "shredder" gets rid of the evidence is laughable.

Virtually everything goes through the internet, on computers, interactions with others, etc. Meetings will have emails, phone calls, and other witnesses. We can track your whereabouts using your smart phone. We photograph people a hundred times a day without their knowledge. A cars license plate is tracked with multiple security camera shots. If you use a credit card we have your location and time. The document you are shredding was printed on a printer which has a record of the printing as well as a record on the computer it was printed from. If you have seen Mr. Robot you realize you have to dismantle your computer hardware and destroy it, few people are that aware of what has to be done. Also, destroying your computer does not do anything to the record on the internet and on other phones, computers, etc. It simply becomes evidence of obstruction of justice.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Returning to our regularly scheduled program:

Trump associate Stone arrested, faces obstruction charge
ERIC TUCKER and CHAD DAY ERIC TUCKER and CHAD DAY 15 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Roger Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, was arrested in the special counsel's Russia investigation in a pre-dawn raid at his Florida home on Friday and was charged with lying to Congress and obstructing the probe.

Did you know that CNN was on the scene before the FBI arrived?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Did you know that CNN was on the scene before the FBI arrived?

same thing happened when they caught the unibomber. Standard practice of the FBI when their investigation has become known by reporters is to trade an exclusive of the arrest for keeping quiet about what they know.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

same thing happened when they caught the unibomber. Standard practice of the FBI when their investigation has become known by reporters is to trade an exclusive of the arrest for keeping quiet about what they know.

Mueller leaks word of impending arrest to CNN, and FBI gives them an exclusive story of the arrest for keeping quiet about what they know.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They were at a pro-life rally at the Capital, and you have never voiced your opposition to abortion. 1+1=2

That's fair. So for the record, I'm against abortion. But I'm not the decider. I don't have the right to tell a women what to do with her body. I've learned that face to face more than once.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Did you know that CNN was on the scene before the FBI arrived?

Oh no! So the deeper state got there before the deep state. Oh no! So scary.

So the whole thing is fake. It was staged by CNN, with actors, MAGA hats and all, and paid for by Soros.

Thanks for enlightening us bro Ohio. We're glad you're keeping an eye on Infowars and Breitbart.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Mueller leaks word of impending arrest to CNN, and FBI gives them an exclusive story of the arrest for keeping quiet about what they know.

Oh my God. The deep state is really deep. And the CIA hasn't even been mentioned. But poor Fox. If they had been there first we would have gotten the real story, or Alex Jones with his megaphone and camera.

The devil must be behind the deep state, trying to eliminated St. Trump.

[awareness]

Trump caves, and no wall :

Trump caves on wall and agrees to open the government for just THREE WEEKS after 35-day shutdown – but warns he'll shut it down again or declare a national emergency and build his 'smart wall' without Congress if they don't fund it

Now he's no longer promising a cement wall, 30 or 60 feet tall. Now it's a "smart wall."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...overnment.html

And if you have a prejudice against Mail Online, read it on WSJ, and pay their paywall fee :
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-c...ay-11548439078

[Ohio]

abortion is murder

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's fair. So for the record, I'm against abortion. But I'm not the decider. I don't have the right to tell a women what to do with her body. I've learned that face to face more than once.

For the record, let's be absolutely certain that the unborn baby is not a woman's own body. The body belongs to the unborn child, who has every right to life. Neither the mother nor the State has the right to take that child's God-given right to life.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's fair. So for the record, I'm against abortion. But I'm not the decider. I don't have the right to tell a women what to do with her body. I've learned that face to face more than once.

Is that the argument that the Pro abortionists make? If they feel that I have no right to tell a woman what to do with her body why do they then not agree with me that they have no right to tell me to pay for her abortion? Why am I not given the same right to do with my tax dollars as I see fit?

The argument that the government doesn't fund abortion, only other aspects of Planned parenthood is a phony argument.

When I commute to my school I pass directly by a casino. This is a recent development in NYC. Now suppose the government subsidized the hotel and restaurant of the casino, providing low cost housing and food to the poor and they used the same argument -- we aren't paying for the casino, only the food and housing. That is a phony argument. It is easy for me to drive by the casino and not gamble. But, if I were living in the casino and eating in the casino the opportunity to at least try a little gambling, especially when I got bored would be much greater. I would be bombarded with advertising for it every day as I come in and out of the hotel and restaurant. What the government has done is to bring the abortion clinic, the doctors, the nurses, the advertising right to my doorstep. How? With my tax dollars. Now if I complain, if I protest they go ballistic, nasty, insulting, accusing teenagers of many lies, etc.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Now if I complain, if I protest they go ballistic, nasty, insulting, accusing teenagers of many lies, etc.

But what if those "teenagers" were pro-life, MAGA hat wearing, white children of privilege, Catholic Christians from "known for incest" Kentucky, (looked like Rand Paul,) who smiled and prayed in the face of conflict?

Why? They're the "most dangerous people" on earth. Just ask a LEFTy. These kids are destined for Notre Dame. They could be descendants of Christopher Columbus! Egads!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For the record, let's be absolutely certain that the unborn baby is not a woman's own body.

That's absolutely laughable. Babies are made by making a deposit into a woman's body. Let's take away the right of a women's body for that too. What happened to Onan, when he spilled his seed on the ground, and not into the woman's body? But that supports your position. Onan brother's wife had no rights there too. You just don't want women to have any rights over her own body.

Maybe your Catholic upbringing is still guiding you. They say birth control, even condoms, are killing of babies.

Originally Posted by Ohio

The body belongs to the unborn child, who has every right to life.

The unborn have no rights according to the law. If they did then pregnant women couldn't be put behind bars for a crime. Then the unborn child would be put in jail. It would be slavery of the unborn, who didn't commit any crime.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Neither the mother nor the State has the right to take that child's God-given right to life.

Every living person in American has sovereign rights over their body. What you are proposing is that the unborn has more rights over the mothers' body than the mother has. And that's ridiculous. Sorry brother Ohio, zygotes don't have the rights that the mother has.

If we really want to prevent unwanted babies, we should prosecute the man that failed to use a condom, and created the unwanted baby. That would accomplish more than taking away rights of a woman over her own body. But no. We can't control men's bodies, only women's.

Which we can't do even if we reversed Roe v. Wade. I've known women that have given themselves an abortion, with a coat hanger. They unquestionably had control of their own body.

And what about miscarriages? I've witnessed those too, and fished the little zygote baby out of the toilet (it was cute). I guess God decided that the unborn child didn't have a right to life ; the expectant mother got mad at God for violating her body, and taking the life of her wanted baby. God forced abortion on her ... er ah ... them. It happens a lot, so God supports abortion. In cases of miscarriages, God is the abortion doctor. So extreme pro-lifers should shoot Him.

Take it to God bro Ohio, and keep it your pants. Then you'll be doing your part against abortion. Other than that -- in heated arguments about this matter, me taking the no abortion side -- like I've been told by particular women, butt out.

I wonder sometimes, when I see a pro-lifer protesting on the street, if they aren't just misogynists, hiding behind the rights of the unborn. It has appeared that way sometimes. Plenty of pro-lifer men believe in subjugating women. It kinda goes hand in hand, and with the territory.

O me O my, did I offend anybody in this post? Did I infringe? Infringing is wrong. That's why we shouldn't infringe on a woman's body.

And while I'm thinking of infringing on women's body's, I knew a brother in the c. in Ft. Lauderdale, in an argument with his wife, apparently in a rage, infringed on his pregnant wife's body, by knocking her to the ground and giving her a few swift kicks to the baby bump. That's how some men, and I see it in churches around here, feel towards women, like they control them or else.

Give it up. Women have equal rights here in America. The cat's out of the bag. Women are a force of nature ... and politics ... independent agents ... like it or not ... it's a fact.

But we're primates. And we do what primates do ; the males dominate the females. It's a primate thing. So the battle between the sexes continues ... look out bro Ohio, they're pretty smart.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's absolutely laughable. Babies are made by making a deposit into a woman's body. Let's take away the right of a women's body for that too.

The unborn have no rights according to the law. If they did then pregnant women couldn't be put behind bars for a crime. Then the unborn child would be put in jail. It would be slavery of the unborn, who didn't commit any crime.

Every living person in American has sovereign rights over their body. What you are proposing is that the unborn has more rights over the mothers' body than the mother has. And that's ridiculous. Sorry brother Ohio, zygotes don't have the rights that the mother has.

But we're primates. And we do what primates do ; the males dominate the females. It's a primate thing. So the battle between the sexes continues ... look out bro Ohio, they're pretty smart.

Since you view us as nothing more than evolved apes, or "primates," your comments make sense to you. They make no sense to me.

I see man as created in God's image, and the unborn baby is known by the Lord and created by Him. There's no science that has ever proven that the body of the unborn is totally unique and separate from the body of the mother.

There are millions of mothers and women in America who believe as I do and as God's word instructs us. These women mourn especially for the murder of the unborn, especially the 50% of them who are also women, never given a chance at life.

Today in America, there is a war on so-called white males, reeking of "white privilege." Even though you claim to join the women's side, and espouse their views, you are still "the enemy." One day the Left might come after you too! Have you not learned that the "Left eats its own." One day the "Law of the Land" might demand your termination too, for the good of the "collective."

Be careful about living by evil laws. It might be your end.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Everyone who got life out of WL LC raise your right hand.

Not me. I found death.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by recoveringCK

Everyone who got life out of WL LC raise your right hand.

I lived through it. Does that count?

[zeek]

Trump and His Associates Had
More Than 100 Contacts With
Russians Before the Inauguration

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...1GGow5mDLvBmqg

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Trump and His Associates Had
More Than 100 Contacts With
Russians Before the Inauguration

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...1GGow5mDLvBmqg

Witch hunt ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ...


Hey, Ann Coulter came to her senses. When asked when she caught on that Trump is a con-man she responded, "I was a stupid girl." There's hope. Maybe all those duped Deplorable's will come to their senses too.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Witch hunt ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ... No collusion! ...

Wow, Ohio has convinced you!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Wow, Ohio has convinced you!

He's good at the art of the deal.

[Ohio]

Jussie Smollett: Latest perpetrator of fake news?

Just add him to Breitbart's ever expanding list of Hate Crime Hoaxes.

Another "Spartacus moment" for Senator Booker. What a fraud!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Jussie Smollett: Latest perpetrator of fake news?

Just add him to Breitbart's ever expanding list of Hate Crime Hoaxes.

Another "Spartacus moment" for Senator Booker. What a fraud!

I don't watch Empire so don't really care what the cast members do. But thanks for bringing it up ... I guess.

Do you have a target you're shooting at? I don't want to presume what it is. I mean, there's the black and gay thing -- and of course the MAGA thing -- that could be your target of choice. I don't know. You might be taking a shot at Booker.

Please elaborate.

[TLFisher]

What exactly is the Deep State? This presentation by Alex Newman lies it all out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YUcUoFveJc

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't watch Empire so don't really care what the cast members do. But thanks for bringing it up ... I guess.

Do you have a target you're shooting at? I don't want to presume what it is. I mean, there's the black and gay thing -- and of course the MAGA thing -- that could be your target of choice. I don't know. You might be taking a shot at Booker.

Please elaborate.

It's looking like this actor staged his own "crime," his own so-called "lynching."

There are numerous reasons why people have done this. Incidences of this do appear to be on the rise, as noted in the Breitbart article.

It's you making this a "black and gay thing." I am only calling out the endless deception in the news fueling hatred. Perhaps that's too hard to understand?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's looking like this actor staged his own "crime," his own so-called "lynching."

There are numerous reasons why people have done this. Incidences of this do appear to be on the rise, as noted in the Breitbart article.

It's you making this a "black and gay thing." I am only calling out the endless deception in the news fueling hatred. Perhaps that's too hard to understand?

Thanks. You're only pointing out incitement to hate. There's certainly a lot of that going on. I see it in the news every day. It's disheartening to say the least.

I don't know, but isn't the Southern Poverty Law Center better at documenting that than Breitbart?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Thanks. You're only pointing out incitement to hate. There's certainly a lot of that going on. I see it in the news every day. It's disheartening to say the least.

I don't know, but isn't the Southern Poverty Law Center better at documenting that than Breitbart?

Incitement to hate? IF, and I say IF, the crime was staged, isn't that the incitement?

SPLC has no credibility to me. Neither does the ACLU.

At least Breitbart strives for accuracy. They don't pretend to be politically centrist like SPLC.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Incitement to hate? IF, and I say IF, the crime was staged, isn't that the incitement?

Yes. That's why I said you were pointing out incitement to hate.

Originally Posted by Ohio

At least Breitbart strives for accuracy.

I hope you don't think of Breitbart like one of my cousins stated about Fox News at a family table that, 'Fox News is the only news outlet that tells all the truth.' He's the same one that said that God is judging America because we aren't keeping the blacks as slaves, as dictated by Noah in the Bible (a common slave state position).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

He's the same one that said that God is judging America because we aren't keeping the blacks as slaves, as dictated by Noah in the Bible (a common slave state position).

Perhaps you mistook him for the Governor of Virginia?

Good old fake news CNN. Did you see how they called the Governor of Virginia a Republican?

That's cause "everybody knows" all racists are Republicans. Just ask awareness about his cousins.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's cause "everybody knows" all racists are Republicans. Just ask awareness about his cousins.

That's ridiculous bro Ohio. Racism knows no party. Demmies and Pubbies can be racist. Particularly in the slave states.

But Northam now denies that it's him in the yearbook ... today.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But Northam now denies that it's him in the yearbook ... today.

But he's a Democrat. He's allowed to murder children and lie about his yearbook.

Just the other day he said he was the blackface or the klansman, but now he can't remember.

[zeek]

Sarah Sanders: God wanted Trump to become president.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...mp-god-1137547

So how does this work? Is whoever wins the person God wanted to win? So did God previously want Bill Clinton and Barack Obama to win too? Does this just apply to the presidency or are all elected officials the ones that God wants? Did he want Nancy Pelosi to be speaker of the House? Did he want Northam to be governor of Virginia? If it applies to history in general why would Sanders have bothered to claim it for Trump? And how does she know? Wouldn't this mean that God overrules free elections? Doesn't that contradict the free will theodicy and the laws of nature? I mean if God is going to intervene in America's elections, why doesn't he just intervene to eliminate evil all together?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Sarah Sanders: God wanted Trump to become president.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...mp-god-1137547

So how does this work? Is whoever wins the person God wanted to win? So did God previously want Bill Clinton and Barack Obama to win too? Does this just apply to the presidency or are all elected officials the ones that God wants? Did he want Nancy Pelosi to be speaker of the House? Did he want Northam to be governor of Virginia? If it applies to history in general why would Sanders have bothered to claim it for Trump? And how does she know? Wouldn't this mean that God overrules free elections? Doesn't that contradict the free will theodicy and the laws of nature? I mean if God is going to intervene in America's elections, why doesn't he just intervene to eliminate evil all together?

"In the last days mockers will come" ... 2 Peter 3.3

Hey zeek, do you think God cares about the unborn who get murdered?

Or do you think God would not want the mother to be "inconvenienced" by a baby?

If Christians fast and pray earnestly for pro-life leaders, do you think God will ever answer their prayers?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But he's a Democrat

I know. And he can't be any worse than that .... right?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I know. And he can't be any worse than that .... right?

That's right, because the media only attacks Republicans. When Gov. Northam fell out of favor due to KKK racist pics, the CNN Chyron editor immediately labeled him a "Republican," because we all know that all racists must be Republicans.

Just ask awareness.

Perez, the new DNC chair has publicly stated that the Party could never support a pro-life candidate, making the Democrats the party of death.

Things were not always this bad, were they?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

"In the last days mockers will come" ... 2 Peter 3.3

2Pe 3:7* But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.*

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hey zeek, do you think God cares about the unborn who get murdered?

Well if he does care, and doesn't do anything about it, then, He's gonna have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Originally Posted by Ohiio

Or do you think God would not want the mother to be "inconvenienced" by a baby?

God should fry men that make unwanted babies.

Originally Posted by Ohio

If Christians fast and pray earnestly for pro-life leaders, do you think God will ever answer their prayers?

According to the Bible, No ... He won't :

James 5:16* The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.*

Rom 3:10* As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:*

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just ask awareness.

Ask awareness what?

[awareness]

Here's a good one :

Nancy Pelosi Keeps Quoting Her Favorite Bible Verse. The Mystery: It’s Not Actually in the Bible.

Nancy Pelosi addressed a gathering of presidents of Christian colleges this week in Washington, where she thanked the evangelical community for its leadership on immigration and refugee policy reform. To this end, the speaker of the House quoted a favorite bit of biblical wisdom in her opening statement: “To minister to the needs of God’s creation is an act of worship. To ignore those needs is to dishonor the God who made us.”

OK, actually, she said, it might not technically be from the Bible. “I can’t find it in the Bible, but I quote it all the time,” Pelosi said as she introduced the quote. “I keep reading and reading the Bible—I know it’s there someplace. It’s supposed to be in Isaiah. I heard a bishop say, ‘To minister to the needs of God’s creation … ’ ”

To clarify: It is not “there someplace.”

Haha Nancy (Trump's pejorative nickname for Pelosi)

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Here's a good one :

Nancy Pelosi Keeps Quoting Her Favorite Bible Verse. The Mystery: It’s Not Actually in the Bible.

Nancy Pelosi addressed a gathering of presidents of Christian colleges this week in Washington, where she thanked the evangelical community for its leadership on immigration and refugee policy reform. To this end, the speaker of the House quoted a favorite bit of biblical wisdom in her opening statement: “To minister to the needs of God’s creation is an act of worship. To ignore those needs is to dishonor the God who made us.”

OK, actually, she said, it might not technically be from the Bible. “I can’t find it in the Bible, but I quote it all the time,” Pelosi said as she introduced the quote. “I keep reading and reading the Bible—I know it’s there someplace. It’s supposed to be in Isaiah. I heard a bishop say, ‘To minister to the needs of God’s creation … ’ ”

To clarify: It is not “there someplace.”

Haha Nancy (Trump's pejorative nickname for Pelosi)

Is this what she is looking for?

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Ask awareness what?

Just ask awareness and he will inform us "that all racists must be Republicans."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just ask awareness and he will inform us "that all racists must be Republicans."

Look back bro Ohio. You'll find that I said racism knows no party.

But I can see you're playing the victim card, of those poor poor pubbies ; victims of the media ... and those ignorant voters ... that voted for the Hildabeast.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Look back bro Ohio. You'll find that I said racism knows no party.

But I can see you're playing the victim card, of those poor poor pubbies ; victims of the media ... and those ignorant voters ... that voted for the Hildabeast.

Thanks for clarifying. Until now I only read your posts referring to Republicans as racists. Fake news?

But let's not forget that there never was a member of the Republican Party who was also a Klansman. The Democrats, however, still have governors in the Klan. Ask Northam. Perhapa get your facts straight?

But awareness, what's so bad about a "little racism" when the Democratic Party of Death is now espousing infanticide? Since when does a Klan costume or a Blackface become the same as slave ownership? The Dems are telling us that killing black babies is OK, but how dare Northam wear Halloween costumes?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Democrats, however, still have governors in the Klan. Ask Northam. Perhapa get your facts straight?

So you claim that I said all pubbies are racists (I haven't) while now claiming all demmies are racists. Wow!

None of us can get at the Northam facts. He claims he's not racist.

And your claim that no pubbie has been a KKK doesn't hold water. No wonder you love Trump. You obviously think that when you say something it makes it true.

[ZNPaaneah]

Why were all those women dressed in white so sour faced? Why weren't they happy when they heard so many Americans have jobs? Why are they against Americans working?

Why doesn't Ocasio clap when told 1500 sex traffickers have been convicted and put in jail?

At first it seemed they were given orders not to clap, smile or cheer for anything. But then when he said that 58% of the new jobs were filled by women they are standing, cheering, and pointing to themselves. Just seemed self centered and immature. So much for representing the people.

The second thing you can't help but notice is how messed up Pelosi's face is. She has this twist to her face you normally see with someone who has had a stroke.

I was stunned that two of our Social Studies teachers said this morning they didn't watch this, consider it just grandstanding. The whole situation has become so toxic. NFL players saying they won't visit the Whitehouse, but rather would like to visit Obama. It is like spoiled children, hateful rhetoric, and why?

Trump hasn't started a war, hasn't started a draft, hasn't presided over the Mortgage crisis, hasn't presided over a recession, what law, what reason is there for such toxicity?

[ZNPaaneah]

"In the past, most of the people in this room voted for a wall, but the proper wall never got built. I will get it built."


This is not the first time that Trump has made such a claim, but when Democrats have voted for a physical barrier along the border in the past, it was far different than what he is currently asking for.

The Secure Fence Act of 2006 called for the construction of 700 miles of fencing along the southern border, including enhanced surveillance technology, satellites, radar coverage and cameras.

The barrier was far less ambitious than the "big, beautiful" concrete wall Trump promised voters.

The legislation was part of the Bush administration's broader strategy for comprehensive immigration reform. And while the bill itself called for the construction of border "fencing," it also included a multi-faceted approach at securing the border.

The final vote in the Senate was 80-19.

Twenty-six Democrats voted in favor of the bill, including Schumer, the current Democratic leader. The final vote in the House was 283-138. Current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi voted against it. The legislation was signed into law by President George W. Bush.

So then the issue with the wall is not the cost, the Democrats allowed the govt to be shut down over their refusal on this issue, costing us $6 billion when the wall would only cost $5 billion.

Nor is the issue border security. They both claim to agree.

Nor is the issue the concept of a barrier.

The issue is, according to this article, that the proposed barrier is not identical to the one they voted for before.

I had no dog in this fight, but the Democrats have come across as vile little weasels.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I had no dog in this fight, but the Democrats have come across as vile little weasels.

We found certain moments to be hysterical. Watching Pelosi was classic. FNC would show the ladies in white looking at each other asking, "should we clap or not." So funny. Then Trump commented on all the new women in the workforce, and the ladies in white looked at each other, "hey that's us," and they all cheered.

Great speech. Very Presidential. Trump gave the Democrats many things to applaud.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why were all those women dressed in white so sour faced?

Why doesn't Ocasio clap when told 1500 sex traffickers have been convicted and put in jail?

The second thing you can't help but notice is how messed up Pelosi's face is. She has this twist to her face you normally see with someone who has had a stroke.

It is like spoiled children, hateful rhetoric, and why?

Trump hasn't started a war, hasn't started a draft, hasn't presided over the Mortgage crisis, hasn't presided over a recession, what law, what reason is there for such toxicity?

I have concluded that the media is mostly responsible for this toxic divide. Bad for the country. But good for ratings!

If your colleagues refuse to hear from Trump directly, then their only source of information is thru the media. Success!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Trump hasn't started a war, hasn't started a draft, hasn't presided over the Mortgage crisis, hasn't presided over a recession, what law, what reason is there for such toxicity?

Are you really that clueless? Trump is a fountain of toxicity.

Trump's best line last night was “We must reject the politics of revenge, resistance and retribution, and embrace the boundless potential of cooperation, compromise and the common good."

Of course that was pure speech-writer rhetoric. He'll never do that. He's all about revenge, retribution, and whatever is good for him and his billionaire cronies.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Are you really that clueless? Trump is a fountain of toxicity.

Trump's best line last night was “We must reject the politics of revenge, resistance and retribution, and embrace the boundless potential of cooperation, compromise and the common good."

Of course that was pure speech-writer rhetoric. He'll never do that. He's all about revenge, retribution, and whatever is good for him and his billionaire cronies.

His "billionaire cronies" are all liberals and anti-Trumpers. Kind of shoots holes in your theory.

Have you forgotten that Trump is a "populist?"

Looks like these "billionaire cronies" are out to get him.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

His "billionaire cronies" are all liberals and anti-Trumpers. Kind of shoots holes in your theory.

Have you forgotten that Trump is a "populist?"

Looks like these "billionaire cronies" are out to get him.

Bro. You reserve your wicked cynical side for liberals. And then come out with true-believer, golly-jeepers pap like that. When are you going to grow up?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Are you really that clueless? Trump is a fountain of toxicity.

Trump's best line last night was “We must reject the politics of revenge, resistance and retribution, and embrace the boundless potential of cooperation, compromise and the common good."

Of course that was pure speech-writer rhetoric. He'll never do that. He's all about revenge, retribution, and whatever is good for him and his billionaire cronies.

I have already commented repeatedly on his "fountain of toxicity". I have done that this morning on the house divided thread referencing his comments towards McCain and the other gold star family.

Nixon was a fountain of toxicity when he ran with Eisenhower. Haldeman said that politics is always about dividing people into groups through this kind of rhetoric.

My point is that as a representative of the US you should be happy that people are employed. They sat there sour faced until they realized they were part of those with jobs, then they are jumping up and down, motioning to "look at me". Immature and childish.

Anyone, particularly women concerned with women's rights should applaud when 300 women that were destined to be sold as sex slaves were freed and 1500 people involved in that traffic were arrested, convicted, and imprisoned. That is something the US did, not Trump.

Anyone concerned with the bias in the justice system arresting minorities at a higher rate than would be expected should be happy about laws that are rectifying that imbalance. Why are these same people sitting there all sour faced? If you voted for this legislation, if you were involved in its passing, if you support it, then why not applaud?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Bro. You reserve your wicked cynical side for liberals. And then come out with true-believer, golly-jeepers pap like that. When are you going to grow up?

This may or may not be true, but what got me was that when he said things that clearly had been called for by Democrats for years, like rectifying the injustice in the incarceration of minorities, they sat sour faced like they disapproved. Why?

The only thing they seemed to cheer for was the fact that they got a job. Didn't care that Americans got jobs, sex traffickers were arrested, or sex slaves were freed. Why? Who exactly do they represent?

When he said that he had doubled the child tax credit, that does not help billionaires, that is chump change for them if they even have kids, that is something that helps the 99% not the 1%. Why not clap? One possible conclusion is that these things don't support the narrative that he is only serving his "billionaire cronies". Another possible conclusion is that they are spoiled self centered and superficial.

I have no issue with them not applauding when he said that they had cut more govt regulations than any previous administration. That made sense. I understand when they didn't applaud his call for the wall, his talk about the investigation, or his stance on abortion. That made sense.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Bro. You reserve your wicked cynical side for liberals. And then come out with true-believer, golly-jeepers pap like that. When are you going to grow up?

Why don't you just address my comments, instead of continually resorting to cheap shots?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Why were all those women dressed in white so sour faced? Why weren't they happy when they heard so many Americans have jobs? Why are they against Americans working?

Why doesn't Ocasio clap when told 1500 sex traffickers have been convicted and put in jail?

At first it seemed they were given orders not to clap, smile or cheer for anything. But then when he said that 58% of the new jobs were filled by women they are standing, cheering, and pointing to themselves. Just seemed self centered and immature. So much for representing the people.

The second thing you can't help but notice is how messed up Pelosi's face is. She has this twist to her face you normally see with someone who has had a stroke.

I was stunned that two of our Social Studies teachers said this morning they didn't watch this, consider it just grandstanding. The whole situation has become so toxic. NFL players saying they won't visit the Whitehouse, but rather would like to visit Obama. It is like spoiled children, hateful rhetoric, and why?

Trump hasn't started a war, hasn't started a draft, hasn't presided over the Mortgage crisis, hasn't presided over a recession, what law, what reason is there for such toxicity?

Maybe it's because we/they have learned that Trump can't be trusted to tell the truth about anything.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I had no dog in this fight, but the Democrats have come across as vile little weasels.

What's new?

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This may or may not be true, but what got me was that when he said things that clearly had been called for by Democrats for years, like rectifying the injustice in the incarceration of minorities, they sat sour faced like they disapproved. Why?

The only thing they seemed to cheer for was the fact that they got a job. Didn't care that Americans got jobs, sex traffickers were arrested, or sex slaves were freed. Why? Who exactly do they represent?

When he said that he had doubled the child tax credit, that does not help billionaires, that is chump change for them if they even have kids, that is something that helps the 99% not the 1%. Why not clap? One possible conclusion is that these things don't support the narrative that he is only serving his "billionaire cronies". Another possible conclusion is that they are spoiled self centered and superficial.

I have no issue with them not applauding when he said that they had cut more govt regulations than any previous administration. That made sense. I understand when they didn't applaud his call for the wall, his talk about the investigation, or his stance on abortion. That made sense.

Yeah he said he was for a lot of things that he really isn't for that the Democrats want. The speech was designed to make Trump look reasonable and to embarrass the Democrats and make them look bad. Based on your response in Ohio's you succeeded with his base. Yippie kayo!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I had no dog in this fight...

...said a guy who lives on Mars.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

When are you going to grow up?

Growing up took me a long time. I left my bio Daddy, and hooked up to Daddy Lee.

I guess that's why I don't need Daddy Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Growing up took me a long time. I left my bio Daddy, and hooked up to Daddy Lee.

I guess that's why I don't need Daddy Trump.

Apparently the newest congressmen and women need mommy Pelosi. The explanation for why some of them were not clapping was that they missed her secret signals.

[Ohio]

Virginia's Democratic leadership in meltdown.

1. Governor Ralph Northam is a Klansman and an Infanticist.
2. Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax is a foul-mouthed Sexual Predator
3. Attorney General Mark Herring is a blackface racist
4. Speaker of the House of Delegates, Republican Kirk Cox is 4th in line.

Do the right thing Northam, Fairfax, and Herring and step down!

At least we have solid evidence to confirm who you are. That's more than we ever had with Trump or Kavanaugh.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Apparently the newest congressmen and women need mommy Pelosi. The explanation for why some of them were not clapping was that they missed her secret signals.

They were not secret, rather a spectacle for all to see. Too funny!

What was she reading anyways? New bill about building walls . . . I mean erecting barriers?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

They were not secret, rather a spectacle for all to see. Too funny!

What was she reading anyways? New bill about building walls . . . I mean erecting barriers?

I casually talked to quite a few teachers today and was shocked. These are highly educated people, they all have a Master's degree. Yet they didn't watch. Is this the plan? Make the news and political arena so nasty and ugly that no one wants to even pay the slightest attention to what is going on? How can that be a good thing for a democracy?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I casually talked to quite a few teachers today and was shocked. These are highly educated people, they all have a Master's degree. Yet they didn't watch. Is this the plan? Make the news and political arena so nasty and ugly that no one wants to even pay the slightest attention to what is going on? How can that be a good thing for a democracy?

I do think you are catching on! Obviously their plan is working.

Wisdom is from God. People can have numerous advanced degrees, yet not an ounze of wisdom. Intelligence and education only help when mixed with wisdom from God.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I do think you are catching on! Obviously their plan is working.

Wisdom is from God. People can have numerous advanced degrees, yet not an ounze of wisdom. Intelligence and education only help when mixed with wisdom from God.

I turned it on, and from the very beginning it seemed that Trump was saying more and more that everyone could agree with and applaud. It seemed to me that those who had so much issue with him over the last two years would say "thank you", etc. Instead they panned the crowd and all you could see is the sour faced women. Finally, he talks about more people working, more minorities with jobs, still nothing. Then he points out that 58% of the new jobs went to women and they realized, "hey that is me" (after Pelosi signaled to them) and then they are jumping, high five, pumping the arms. I was disgusted. Couldn't watch much after that.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I turned it on, and from the very beginning it seemed that Trump was saying more and more that everyone could agree with and applaud. It seemed to me that those who had so much issue with him over the last two years would say "thank you", etc. Instead they panned the crowd and all you could see is the sour faced women. Finally, he talks about more people working, more minorities with jobs, still nothing. Then he points out that 58% of the new jobs went to women and they realized, "hey that is me" (after Pelosi signaled to them) and then they are jumping, high five, pumping the arms. I was disgusted. Couldn't watch much after that.

O c'mon. I watched it, but got very tired of the pubbies clapping between every syllable.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I watched it, but got very tired of clapping between every syllable.

Sounds like you were jumping up and clapping too! Good for you!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sounds like you were jumping up and clapping too! Good for you!

Sounds like you are obviously projecting your clapping onto me.

[awareness]

Speaking about clapping, bro Ohio will prolly be clapping that the Virginia leaders are all racists Democrats.

The truth is, Virginia is still attached to its slavery and Jim Crow days. So all Virginians are racists ; demmies, pubbies, and the non-party-affiliated.

So hold all clapping.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Speaking about clapping, bro Ohio will prolly be clapping that the Virginia leaders are all racists Democrats.

The truth is, Virginia is still attached to its slavery and Jim Crow days. So all Virginians are racists ; demmies, pubbies, and the non-party-affiliated.

So hold all clapping.

Really, you have evidence of 3 people and that means they all are?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Sounds like you are obviously projecting your clapping onto me.

I was clapping! I loved that speech!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Speaking about clapping, bro Ohio will prolly be clapping that the Virginia leaders are all racists Democrats.

The truth is, Virginia is still attached to its slavery and Jim Crow days. So all Virginians are racists ; demmies, pubbies, and the non-party-affiliated.

So hold all clapping.

This Governor Northam is a nutcase. He went to med school, yet dresses up as a Klansman or Blackface. He was an OB/GYN and then publicly discusses Infanticide. Has he lost his mind?

Lt. Governor Fairfax is accused of being a sexual predator. What happened to "Believe all woman!" Have they all forgotten their chants from just a few months ago? What happened to all those who chanted "Believe all woman?" Have they all died? Where are all the supporters of Dr. Vanessa Tyson? Why the sudden crickets?

How ironic is it that Fairfax has hired Kavanaugh's lawyers, and Tyson has hired Lousy-Ford's.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Where are all the supporters of Dr. Vanessa Tyson? Why the sudden crickets?

It's been too cold for you to hear any crickets. From what I see, on various news outlets, left and right, there's a ton of outcry.

Originally Posted by Ohio

How ironic is it that Fairfax has hired Kavanaugh's lawyers, and Tyson has hired Lousy-Ford's.

You should be happy. All three demmies are going down. Next in line is : Republican Kirk Cox.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Really, you have evidence of 3 people and that means they all are?

You're right. Such generalizations are not accurate, nor fair and just.

But when I see such thing as The Creation Museum, and life-size ark, I am ashamed to be considered a Kentuckian. And this crazy fiasco in Virginia should make all Virginians ashamed to be related to their state.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

You're right. Such generalizations are not accurate, nor fair and just.

But when I see such thing as The Creation Museum, and life-size ark, I am ashamed to be considered a Kentuckian. And this crazy fiasco in Virginia should make all Virginians ashamed to be related to their state.

It seems to me, that when you see a bible or a church, then you are also ashamed to be a Christian.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

It's been too cold for you to hear any crickets. From what I see, on various news outlets, left and right, there's a ton of outcry.


You should be happy. All three demmies are going down. Next in line is : Republican Kirk Cox.

There's no outcry compared to Kavanaugh.

When are they going down? You got insider info?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There's no outcry compared to Kavanaugh.

When are they going down? You got insider info?

No but now a pubbie is exposed as racist too :

ANOTHER Virginia lawmaker is exposed in racism scandal: Senate Majority Leader edited yearbook filled with blackface photos, Confederate flags and slurs

Republican majority leader of the Virginia Senate Tommy Norment is the latest politician to be outed for possible racist practices

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ags-slurs.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

No but now a pubbie is exposed as racist too :

ANOTHER Virginia lawmaker is exposed in racism scandal: Senate Majority Leader edited yearbook filled with blackface photos, Confederate flags and slurs

Republican majority leader of the Virginia Senate Tommy Norment is the latest politician to be outed for possible racist practices

I don't see how this "black face" stuff is racist. Who got hurt? Show me how this is discriminatory and inflicts pain and suffering. Evel Joy Behar got busted.

Things have gone crazy. Adidas even got busted for making white shoes during black history month. Do I have to stock up on white paint since it may also be banned?

For me, Northam's infanticide is the most serious issue. Secondly, are the sexual charges against Fairfax. Both expose media bias and hypocrisy. Where are all the Social Justice Warriors?

[zeek]

State Capitol Janitor Frank Surprised to Find He’s Virginia’s New Governor
Posted by The Peedmont Staff


RICHMOND, Va. — Explaining that he had no idea he was even in the line of succession to become the leader of the Commonwealth, Frank Donahue, the State Capitol’s head janitor, arrived at work to discover that he was now Virginia’s governor, sources confirmed Thursday.

“This is all a shock to me,” Donahue remarked. Despite having spent the past seven years making sure the bathrooms outside of the Senate Chamber are clean, he is now poised to become the state’s governor due to his noticeably clean background. “I had overheard about the stuff Northam, Fairfax, and Herring were going through, but I didn’t think it would lead to the guy who mops the floors around the rotunda becoming the boss. That’s one heck of a promotion.”

The former custodian and new governor-elect was last seen reading a copy of the state’s constitution while asking colleagues if they could replace the urinal cakes in the men’s restroom near the building’s main entrance on Bank Street.

https://thepeedmont.com/2019/02/07/s...XsJWWHv8k1rMhs

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

State Capitol Janitor Frank Surprised to Find He’s Virginia’s New Governor
Posted by The Peedmont Staff


RICHMOND, Va. — Explaining that he had no idea he was even in the line of succession to become the leader of the Commonwealth, Frank Donahue, the State Capitol’s head janitor, arrived at work to discover that he was now Virginia’s governor, sources confirmed Thursday.

“This is all a shock to me,” Donahue remarked. Despite having spent the past seven years making sure the bathrooms outside of the Senate Chamber are clean, he is now poised to become the state’s governor due to his noticeably clean background. “I had overheard about the stuff Northam, Fairfax, and Herring were going through, but I didn’t think it would lead to the guy who mops the floors around the rotunda becoming the boss. That’s one heck of a promotion.”

The former custodian and new governor-elect was last seen reading a copy of the state’s constitution while asking colleagues if they could replace the urinal cakes in the men’s restroom near the building’s main entrance on Bank Street.

https://thepeedmont.com/2019/02/07/s...XsJWWHv8k1rMhs

Ha! This proves Awareness jumped the gun by assuming everyone in Va is racist, they found someone with a clean background.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Ha! This proves Awareness jumped the gun by assuming everyone in Va is racist, they found someone with a clean background.

The Peedmont Staff failed to check out his yearbook page, where the janitor Frank is pictured wearing a KKK hood. You can tell that it's him because of the bucket and mop.

Aren't all babies born in Virginia born in blackface, even black babies (before their post-birth abortion)?

[awareness]

Let's discuss the firebrand Ocasio-Cortez :

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Exposes The Dark Side Of Politics :

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ocasio-co...143647084.html

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Let's discuss the firebrand Ocasio-Cortez :

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Exposes The Dark Side Of Politics :

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ocasio-co...143647084.html

Well, when you say it like that it sounds bad. Why can't a business in the US have a political voice? If I employ 100,000 people in the US why wouldn't I be concerned about the laws?

Second, she makes it sound simple to buy stock in an oil company, pass laws that benefit the oil company and then see your stock go sky high. What law? What congressman has the clout to cause the price of a fortune 500 company stock to go sky high? The best real example is if you know the Pentagon is about to give a fat contract to a relatively small company, this information could double the value of the stock overnight. However, trading on inside information is illegal. Also, if you owned stock in the company you might have to recuse yourself from any decision about whether or not they get the contract. That also would be regulated.

It is possible as a congressman you get an understanding of complex issues that others don't understand as well and using that information you can invest in a way that is virtually guaranteed to be profitable. LBJ did this when he understood the deregulation of the radio industry and bought up radio stations. That is legal. Technically he didn't trade on inside information. However, his practices were certainly in the grey area of using his friends and contacts to give him an inside track.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I don't see how this "black face" stuff is racist. Who got hurt? Show me how this is discriminatory and inflicts pain and suffering. Evel Joy Behar got busted.

In my opinion it is in very bad taste. However, I see teenagers every day doing things in very bad taste. However, I think what these guys did was insulting and racist, especially the picture of the guy in a KKK outfit. This is every bit as insulting to blacks as what Warren did to the native Americans. The native americans have suffered more abusive behavior at the hands of Americans than even African Americans and we are trying to rectify that by giving a big advantage to anyone who is native American and here is this lily white girl trying to steal that from them.

The good news is these are democrats. We saw in the Kavanaugh hearing how incredibly sensitive they are to anything that is viewed as abusive towards women, demeaning, threatening, or rude. You have heard repeatedly how offended they have been at some of Trump's insults. So we know there is no way they will allow a man accused of rape, or these men who are so over the top insulting to stay. No way, the democrats are going to come down on them like a ton of bricks because they don't tolerate any of this, not even by high school kids.

Oh, my mistake. Apparently as long as "they didn't profit professionally" from this behavior it is OK. So what was the issue with Kavanaugh again?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In my opinion it is in very bad taste. However, I see teenagers every day doing things in very bad taste. However, I think what these guys did was insulting and racist, especially the picture of the guy in a KKK outfit.

I agree that we should be more forgiving to dumb teenagers than adults, especially those already in Med school. But what defines racism? Is it merely words or actions, or does somebody actually need to get hurt. If someone says or does something "racist" in the privacy of their own home, is that really racist? Whose rights have been violated? Are not stupid and insulting words and expressions also protected by the 1st Amend.?

And why do blatant racists like "minister" Farrakhan get a free pass on everything because he is African American? Why two sets of laws, one for Whites and one for Blacks?

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is every bit as insulting to blacks as what Warren did to the native Americans. The native Americans have suffered more abusive behavior at the hands of Americans than even African Americans and we are trying to rectify that by giving a big advantage to anyone who is native American and here is this lily white girl trying to steal that from them.

Liz Warren is a fraud. All of her "success" must be attributed to false pretense. She rose to the top using racial quotas.

But never forget that it was not "Americans" who enslaved African Americans and displaced Native Americans, it was the Democratic Party. The Republican Party of Lincoln always fought on their behalf. Today it is the same with abortion. The Republicans alone have a clean conscience in this regard.

And let's not forget that African Blacks were also guilty of slave trade, and Native American tribes were extremely brutal to one another.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The good news is these are democrats. We saw in the Kavanaugh hearing how incredibly sensitive they are to anything that is viewed as abusive towards women, demeaning, threatening, or rude. You have heard repeatedly how offended they have been at some of Trump's insults. So we know there is no way they will allow a man accused of rape, or these men who are so over the top insulting to stay. No way, the democrats are going to come down on them like a ton of bricks because they don't tolerate any of this, not even by high school kids.

That's "good news?"

In this regard, I appreciate many Conservative commentators I have heard. They called for due process with Kavanaugh, and they are now calling for due process with LG Fairfax. We can never have a fair society that "believes all women," and neither should we "believe all men."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The good news is these are democrats.

And bro Ohio should be cheering and clapping, at least as much as he claimed when watching the SOTU.

But like I've said, racism knows no party.

Here's another recent example, in another slave state. This time involving a republican running for governor in Mississippi :

Mississippi Lt. Gov. Tate Reeves took part in Confederate frat parties

While he was in Kappa Alpha at the private Millsaps College in Jackson, some in the fraternity were disciplined for wearing afro wigs and Confederate battle flags and shouting racial slurs at black students in October 1994.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/09/missis...-frat-parties/

This one is undeniably racist.

I'm not presenting this to attack all republicans. I'm only presenting it to show that racism exists in both parties, mostly in former slave states. The first paragraph in the article even states this :

"a common practice among chapters in the South at the time."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But what defines racism? Is it merely words or actions, or does somebody actually need to get hurt. If someone says or does something "racist" in the privacy of their own home, is that really racist? Whose rights have been violated? Are not stupid and insulting words and expressions also protected by the 1st Amend.?

And why do blatant racists like "minister" Farrakhan get a free pass on everything because he is African American? Why two sets of laws, one for Whites and one for Blacks?

I think Chris Rock has demonstrated that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You can be sure that there will be a backlash. The difference is that "racist ministers" are not elected by popular vote.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

And bro Ohio should be cheering and clapping, at least as much as he claimed when watching the SOTU.

But like I've said, racism knows no party.

Here's another recent example, in another slave state. This time involving a republican running for governor in Mississippi :

Mississippi Lt. Gov. Tate Reeves took part in Confederate frat parties

While he was in Kappa Alpha at the private Millsaps College in Jackson, some in the fraternity were disciplined for wearing afro wigs and Confederate battle flags and shouting racial slurs at black students in October 1994.

https://nypost.com/2019/02/09/missis...-frat-parties/

This one is undeniably racist.

I'm not presenting this to attack all republicans. I'm only presenting it to show that racism exists in both parties, mostly in former slave states. The first paragraph in the article even states this :

"a common practice among chapters in the South at the time."

Yes, this is true. However, I think another thing that doesn't know party is that teenagers do stupid things.

Now if you could demonstrate that a person has acted with extreme racial bias in their career that would be a compelling reason for me to have them fired, impeached, resign, etc.

I think that most people realize this, even democrats, but their treatment of Kavanaugh versus the Democrats who are currently being shamed is evidence not of "higher moral sensibilities" but of simply politically motivated hypocrisy.

Democrats are supposed to be the party of the people and they tell you what the common man wants to hear. But when they are in power they have a hundred excuses for why they are powerless to do anything. Republicans are the party of the businessmen. So, they are portrayed as fat cats. But the truth is they are both the party of business, that is who pays for them to get elected. So the Republican party is less hypocritical and appears to have more of a spine because they actually intend to do what they promise.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think Chris Rock has demonstrated that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You can be sure that there will be a backlash. The difference is that "racist ministers" are not elected by popular vote.

That's your standard? Serious?

What about "appointed" positions?

"Reverend" Al Sharpton visited the Obama White House almost a hundred times. He was more powerful than most elected officials.

What's your point about Chris Rock? I heard his biggest fault was not hating Trump enough.

[Ohio]

Here's my Virginia crimes level from worst to least:

1. Fairfax' multiple rape allegations
2. Northam's plans to legislate infanticide
3. Northam's Klansman
4. Northam's lies
5. Northam's and Herring's Blackface

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Democrats are supposed to be the party of the people and they tell you what the common man wants to hear. But when they are in power they have a hundred excuses for why they are powerless to do anything. Republicans are the party of the businessmen. So, they are portrayed as fat cats. But the truth is they are both the party of business, that is who pays for them to get elected. So the Republican party is less hypocritical and appears to have more of a spine because they actually intend to do what they promise.

These stereotypes go back to the Depression Era complaints about Hoover. Sadly, the media has never allowed the plain facts of history to correct them.

At least 80% of today's wealthiest are left-leaning. For example, billionaire Hedge Fund manager Paul Singer is a so-called Republican. But a New England Republican cares nothing for the conservative values I care about. He promotes gay marriage, abortion, trannies, PC, etc. Same with Bloomberg, Schultz, Buffet, Koch's, Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, and so many more wealthy elites. They may not be Bernie/AOC socialists, but they are not conservatives.

Trump was elected by the working man, by the pro-life, by the DOMAs, by the religious, by the non-neo-cons, etc. The same kind of folks that put JFK in office.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

These stereotypes go back to the Depression Era complaints about Hoover. Sadly, the media has never allowed the plain facts of history to correct them.

At least 80% of today's wealthiest are left-leaning. For example, billionaire Hedge Fund manager Paul Singer is a so-called Republican. But a New England Republican cares nothing for the conservative values I care about. He promotes gay marriage, abortion, trannies, PC, etc. Same with Bloomberg, Schultz, Buffet, Koch's, Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, and so many more wealthy elites. They may not be Bernie/AOC socialists, but they are not conservatives.

Trump was elected by the working man, by the pro-life, by the DOMAs, by the religious, by the non-neo-cons, etc. The same kind of folks that put JFK in office.

I think the issues we are seeing today are due to a 2 party system. If we had a parliamentary system and if you got rid of the senate so you simply had a representative for every 2 million americans, approximately 100-200 representatives, then you could have fluid alliances for various issues. This 2 party system doesn't give anyone what they really want so it doesn't represent anyone. Also, having 200 smaller elections would allow those with less money to get into the race. It is much harder for corporate money to buy up 200 elections than it is to buy up 10 or 20.

Imagine Ohio elects 6 representatives, and you have 18 people on the ballot and the six who get the most votes are in. If you did that for every state (depending on population) you would see conservative christian candidates elected from every state. Probably half of your candidates if not more.

Also, these candidates would not be beholden to a national party, but they would be much closer to their constituency.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Here's my Virginia crimes level from worst to least:

1. Fairfax' multiple rape allegations
2. Northam's plans to legislate infanticide
3. Northam's Klansman
4. Northam's lies
5. Northam's and Herring's Blackface

Sounds like Northam and Fairfax have to go, you might compromise on Herring. How about the guy who was editor of the paper?

[awareness]

“There are ongoing inequities to access to things like education, health care, mortgages, capital, entre*pre*neur*ship,” Northam told the Post. “And so this has been a real, I think, an awakening for Virginia. It has really raised the level of awareness for racial issues in Virginia. And so we’re ready to learn from our mistakes.”

Northam said he has begun reading up on racial issues, starting with Ta-Nehisi Coates’ powerful Atlantic magazine piece “The Case for Reparations” and Roots by Alex Haley.

We'll give Northam a pass because he's a demmie. But we'll fry the pubbie in Mississippi cuz he's a pubbie.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Sounds like Northam and Fairfax have to go, you might compromise on Herring. How about the guy who was editor of the paper?

We need a way to resolve these "he said, she said, MeToo" accusations. Few of these can be prosecuted, and trials take way too long. What if Fairfax is totally innocent? There has to be standards of evidence to address these issues for elected officials.

Northam's case is much simpler. We have pictures and videos.

I read an article about how these MeToo accusations are hurting women's opportunities in management. How can senior male staff work with women? How can they even have daily interactions with women, when the potential always exists for women to "go nuclear" whenever they feel slighted, whether or not sexual harassment actually occurred?

I have also read about innocent men who have had their lives destroyed by false accusations on campuses. Many universities now have a "believe all women" policy which allows no due process. They destroyed the entire Duke Lacrosse team this way. This is now the fallout from the sexual revolution of the 60's, wth a half-life of 50 years.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We need a way to resolve these "he said, she said, MeToo" accusations. Few of these can be prosecuted, and trials take way too long. What if Fairfax is totally innocent? There has to be standards of evidence to address these issues for elected officials.

Northam's case is much simpler. We have pictures and videos.

I read an article about how these MeToo accusations are hurting women's opportunities in management. How can senior male staff work with women? How can they even have daily interactions with women, when the potential always exists for women to "go nuclear" whenever they feel slighted, whether or not sexual harassment actually occurred?

I have also read about innocent men who have had their lives destroyed by false accusations on campuses. Many universities now have a "believe all women" policy which allows no due process. They destroyed the entire Duke Lacrosse team this way. This is now the fallout from the sexual revolution of the 60's, wth a half-life of 50 years.

There are excellent tools for proving a woman has been raped. Going forward there is little or no excuse for a woman not to go to the authorities. 40 years ago it might have made sense for a woman to think no one would believe her, but that is no longer true. Everyone needs to be educated as to what the police can do and the proper procedure, just as they have to learn what to do in a traffic accident.

Second, there are a number of aspects of these stories that can be verified. Apparently these women did tell people. But I agree, it is unfair and abusive for a man's career to be destroyed on a "he said, she said" case without any evidence.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes, this is true. However, I think another thing that doesn't know party is that teenagers do stupid things.

Now if you could demonstrate that a person has acted with extreme racial bias in their career that would be a compelling reason for me to have them fired, impeached, resign, etc.

I think that most people realize this, even democrats, but their treatment of Kavanaugh versus the Democrats who are currently being shamed is evidence not of "higher moral sensibilities" but of simply politically motivated hypocrisy.

"But the prosecutor in me can’t help but think of the years listening to judges tell juries that there is no crime without criminal intent."

So now the democrats are arguing that the actions of these democrats should not lead to them losing their job because their was no criminal intent. Reminds me of the defense of Hillary Clinton.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"But the prosecutor in me can’t help but think of the years listening to judges tell juries that there is no crime without criminal intent."

So now the democrats are arguing that the actions of these democrats should not lead to them losing their job because their was no criminal intent. Reminds me of the defense of Hillary Clinton.

Have they been indicted for a crime?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Have they been indicted for a crime?

Not that I am aware. But that is certainly not the standard, if they said that their would be outrage and a huge outcry. Kavanaugh was not indicted for a crime.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

"But the prosecutor in me can’t help but think of the years listening to judges tell juries that there is no crime without criminal intent."

Who said this?

It's pure nonsense. Crimes are committed all the time without "intent."

E.g. negligent homicide.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Not that I am aware. But that is certainly not the standard, if they said that their would be outrage and a huge outcry. Kavanaugh was not indicted for a crime.

Kavanaugh is a Supremie.

Apparently Northam has had some kind of a conversion experience, where he now realizes that slavery and racism is wrong. But also apparently the conversion fell short. He now calls slaves indenture servants. He's staying in office to remove all racism from the state of Virginia.

It's Fairfax that could be indicted.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Who said this?

It's pure nonsense. Crimes are committed all the time without "intent."

E.g. negligent homicide.

I agree. Since when did we have to prove intent? Now for a homicide you have 1st degree indicating they planned out the event which obviously indicates intent, 2nd degree -- killed a person without intent, and manslaughter which indicates an accident or negligent homicide.

But could someone get away with fraud because they couldn't prove intent?

What I don't like about all this is there is no forgiveness. Kid does something stupid in HS and 30 years later they want to run him out on rails.

[UntoHim]

What the heck does any of this have to do with "Politics and the Church"? Oh Mister Moderator...helooooooo?
-

[awareness]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

What the heck does any of this have to do with "Politics and the Church"? Oh Mister Moderator...helooooooo?
-

I've been wondering that for some time. That's why I try, and sometimes fail, to present Christianity and politics.

Thanks. Maybe we can get back to that.

This might not have politics but it is about the church. It was on Drudgereport earlier. Methinks that just might make it political :

Houston Report Details Widespread Sexual Abuse At Southern Baptist Churches: “It Was Hard To Forgive”

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/a...rd-to-forgive/

The common denominator is that they are made up of humans ... and even the new man in Christ can't abolish that.

An elder in the c. in Ft. Lauderdale lost his wife. About a year later he was dating. He told me, "the flesh is a megaphone, and the spirit is a whisper."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Here is a sample of the LCM teaching on politics and the church:

If God's children try to be officers at the gate of Sodom, they will find that before Lot had a chance to convert Sodom, Sodom had converted Lot! Collected Works of Watchman Nee, The (Set 1) Vol. 07: The Christian (5)

According to Nee the Bible teaches that it is wrong for a Christian to hold political office. So, professing Christians should not run for or hold public office or work for the government. The business of government should be left to unbelievers.

I worked for the State of Florida for 37 years. It never occurred to me that I was acting unchristian. How about that?

So to return to the first Post, I would point out that Jesus prayed specifically that we would not be taken out of the world, but rather we would not be of the world.

This teaching by Nee clearly indicates that believers will be overcome by the world, even though the NT promises that the one in us is greater than the one in the world.

The idea that "politics" is somehow dirtier and therefore an unclean profession compared with journalism (look at this charge from Bezos that these rags are simply hit men for politicians) or businessmen (look at how the cigarette companies lied and sold addictive products for a profit, knowing that the cigarettes killed people) or even the church (look at the sex abuse scandals in the Catholic church) is absurd.

Instead I would argue that "we are not ignorant of Satan's devices". We should be aware of what we are getting into and the battles we will encounter. From my understanding the NT does not tell us to run from this battle, but rather advises us to be fully prepared, dressed, shod and armed for battle.

What is the "good news" if not that Jesus has come and lives in us and will rule and reign. Expressing that in your living on your job is the gospel.

2nd issue with Nee's teaching. Why would you base a teaching for Christians on Lot? Why not Abraham? When Lot was taken Abraham didn't say "I'm not of this world". No, he put together an army, chased them down and rescued Lot along with people from Sodom. He was then ministered to by Melchizedek. This certainly seems to be a much better story to base a NT teaching on than Lot's failure. No one has ever said that "Lot was a man of faith".

[zeek]

Many in the church today should read this, and try to put themselves in the shoes of the mother. It ain't easy.

"I Wish I’d Had A ‘Late-Term Abortion’ Instead Of Having My Daughter"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0a8731aeabbd6

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Many in the church today should read this, and try to put themselves in the shoes of the mother. It ain't easy.

"I Wish I’d Had A ‘Late-Term Abortion’ Instead Of Having My Daughter"

I have a friend who was raped by a black man. She decided to keep the baby. Today that beautiful little girl is all grown up. She is a faithful believer in Christ, married to wonderful Christian, and she now has many beautiful girls of her own.

"What man does for evil, God meant for good, to save many alive." Genesis 50.20

Originally Posted by zeek

Many in the church today should read this!

Agreed!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I have a friend who was raped by a black man. She decided to keep the baby. Today that beautiful little girl is all grown up. She is a faithful believer in Christ, married to wonderful Christian, and she now has many beautiful girls of her own.

"What man does for evil, God meant for good, to save many alive." Genesis 50.20

Agreed!

Pro-lifer's should also be pro-environmentalists and pro-universal health care. Why care about the pre-born and not care about the post-born? That's not really pro-life.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Pro-lifer's should also be pro-environmentalists and pro-universal health care. Why care about the pre-born and not care about the post-born? That's not really pro-life.

And you still believe that the these abortion supporters care for the environment or your healthcare?

How many more years do you plan to live before you see thru their hypocritical facade?

When healthcare is a "right," and jobs are a "right," and housing is a "right," and food is a "right," and abortion is a "right," then we have, by definition, totalitarian socialism, and thus, no more liberties. Sorry is you don't understand this. Please study how socialism has done in countries like Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua. Please study how socialism did in the soviet empire. They too had all of these "rights."

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And you still believe that the these abortion supporters care for the environment or your healthcare?

How many more years do you plan to live before you see thru their hypocritical facade?

When healthcare is a "right," and jobs are a "right," and housing is a "right," and food is a "right," and abortion is a "right," then we have, by definition, totalitarian socialism, and thus, no more liberties. Sorry is you don't understand this. Please study how socialism has done in countries like Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua. Please study how socialism did in the soviet empire. They too had all of these "rights."

Countries with universal health care include Canada Japan Denmark Finland France Germany Greece Iceland Ireland Italy the Netherlands Norway Sweden Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Pro-lifer's should also be pro-environmentalists and pro-universal health care. Why care about the pre-born and not care about the post-born? That's not really pro-life.

I am all three. I believe the Bible is too. Man was placed to tend and care for the garden, and concerning the health care the Bible says if a man doesn't want to work neither should he eat. Nothing about keeping him from having basic healthcare. I think there is plenty in the NT to lay the ground work for a universal healthcare (Basic medicare for all citizens).

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And you still believe that the these abortion supporters care for the environment or your healthcare?

How many more years do you plan to live before you see thru their hypocritical facade?

When healthcare is a "right," and jobs are a "right," and housing is a "right," and food is a "right," and abortion is a "right," then we have, by definition, totalitarian socialism, and thus, no more liberties. Sorry is you don't understand this. Please study how socialism has done in countries like Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua. Please study how socialism did in the soviet empire. They too had all of these "rights."

Universal healthcare makes sense, to those who are paying for it. Who wants the person on the bus, or the train, or at your kids school, or at the McDonald's etc. to have some contagious disease like Tuberculosis which they can't treat because they don't have insurance. It is the same reason that fire departments put out fires regardless of whether or not the homeowner is up to date on their taxes.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And you still believe that the these abortion supporters care for the environment or your healthcare?

How many more years do you plan to live before you see thru their hypocritical facade?

When healthcare is a "right," and jobs are a "right," and housing is a "right," and food is a "right," and abortion is a "right," then we have, by definition, totalitarian socialism, and thus, no more liberties. Sorry is you don't understand this. Please study how socialism has done in countries like Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua. Please study how socialism did in the soviet empire. They too had all of these "rights."

So screw the post-born. I think we should stop procreating, if we condemn them to poison water (Flint) and air, and then don't provide heath care when they fall ill. Is that your pro-life stance? Seems hypocritical.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

So screw the post-born. I think we should stop procreating, if we condemn them to poison water (Flint) and air, and then don't provide heath care when they fall ill. Is that your pro-life stance? Seems hypocritical.

How in the world is anyone supposed to respond to such extreme rhetoric?

Is this how the pro-abortion movement responds to socialist push back?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Universal healthcare makes sense, to those who are paying for it. Who wants the person on the bus, or the train, or at your kids school, or at the McDonald's etc. to have some contagious disease like Tuberculosis which they can't treat because they don't have insurance. It is the same reason that fire departments put out fires regardless of whether or not the homeowner is up to date on their taxes.

This same arguement could be made by those who want to close the border to illegals.

Did anyone ever think that, under our current policies, every deadly disease mankind has ever faced will end up on the border seeking free healthcare?

And it's already happening in LA.

[ZNPaaneah]

The US govt seizes about $350 million per year being smuggled across the Mexican border, a form of money laundering for drug dealers.

This money should go towards border security with the broadest understanding of the term. So if a LA police dept is involved in the bust that involvement should be viewed as part of our "border security" and some of the money should go to that dept.

If a car is driving across the border with $30 million in cash in vacuum sealed bags then they are driving from point A (where the money was bagged) to point B (the drug supplier in Mexico). That by definition is a conspiracy and allows us to use RICO which in turns allows us to go after all assets and retrieve 5x's the amount tied to crimes. This is the basis for seizing El Chapo's $14 billion. So, there is plenty of money out there to fund border security paid for by the criminals.

[Ohio]

‘Spineless Morons’ — Dallas Megachurch Pastor Rips ‘NeverTrump’ Evangelicals

Here's an example of one minister who has completely lost sight of the Gospel for political causes. He now condemns other Christians for not supporting Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The US govt seizes about $350 million per year being smuggled across the Mexican border, a form of money laundering for drug dealers.

This money should go towards border security with the broadest understanding of the term. So if a LA police dept is involved in the bust that involvement should be viewed as part of our "border security" and some of the money should go to that dept.

If a car is driving across the border with $30 million in cash in vacuum sealed bags then they are driving from point A (where the money was bagged) to point B (the drug supplier in Mexico). That by definition is a conspiracy and allows us to use RICO which in turns allows us to go after all assets and retrieve 5x's the amount tied to crimes. This is the basis for seizing El Chapo's $14 billion. So, there is plenty of money out there to fund border security paid for by the criminals.

I definitely agree.

If Mexico don't pay for the wall, a Mexican will.

Think about it. It's criminals like El Crapo that force us to spend billions to protect our citizens, so when he gets caught, all him money should be used to protect our citizens.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Universal healthcare makes sense, to those who are paying for it. Who wants the person on the bus, or the train, or at your kids school, or at the McDonald's etc. to have some contagious disease like Tuberculosis which they can't treat because they don't have insurance. It is the same reason that fire departments put out fires regardless of whether or not the homeowner is up to date on their taxes.

I'm for universal healthcare. The same quality of care that our politicians get.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I definitely agree.

If Mexico don't pay for the wall, a Mexican will.

Think about it. It's criminals like El Crapo that force us to spend billions to protect our citizens, so when he gets caught, all him money should be used to protect our citizens.

That is the basic concept of RICO, so the law is well established.

Generally the law enforcement agency credited with the bust gets the money and assets for their budget. The only adjustment that needs to be made is to view some of these busts as being part of our "border security". In this way NYC police and LA police and Chicago police could get money that is then dubbed as "going to border security". This is reasonable. How do you think we catch these $30 million dollar busts of cash being driven across the border? It is much easier for a local police officer to trace a $5 bill to a cash house where the money is bagged. If the Feds always get the money why should these police do this job?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

‘Spineless Morons’ — Dallas Megachurch Pastor Rips ‘NeverTrump’ Evangelicals

Here's an example of one minister who has completely lost sight of the Gospel for political causes. He now condemns other Christians for not supporting Trump.

This article goes to the very heart of the first post on this thread and the quote from WN.

Abortion is a very visceral issue that is clearly and undeniably tied to the Bible. However, the connection to the OT is much closer than the NT.

1. Should a Christian pastor take a very visible position on this issue as a Pastor. Does that violate the separation of church and state?

2. We all agree that as a citizen he has every right that any other citizen has to voice his opinion, vote, and support political candidates. But, does he violate some NT principle by condemning Christians for their political choices?

I personally am pro life. If I had trusted Trump to stand this strongly for a pro life stance I would have voted for him in the last election. I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump. However, I think it crosses a line both according to US law and according to the NT to make this a test of your Christian faith or a basis for judging your brother and sister.

[Ohio]

I guess those Amazon jobs were no good for NYC. Yea AOC!

That's what happens when you elect politicians who believe wealthy employers are evil.

The same thing happened to Cleveland about the time I left. The "people's mayor" Dennis Kucinich nearly destroyed that city. Businesses left in droves to the suburbs.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This article goes to the very heart of the first post on this thread and the quote from WN.

Abortion is a very visceral issue that is clearly and undeniably tied to the Bible. However, the connection to the OT is much closer than the NT.

1. Should a Christian pastor take a very visible position on this issue as a Pastor. Does that violate the separation of church and state?

2. We all agree that as a citizen he has every right that any other citizen has to voice his opinion, vote, and support political candidates. But, does he violate some NT principle by condemning Christians for their political choices?

I personally am pro life. If I had trusted Trump to stand this strongly for a pro life stance I would have voted for him in the last election. I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump. However, I think it crosses a line both according to US law and according to the NT to make this a test of your Christian faith or a basis for judging your brother and sister.

It doesn't violate the separation of church and state because that limits the state, not the church.


But what Jeffers did violates the truth.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I guess those Amazon jobs were no good for NYC. Yea AOC!

That upstart. That whippersnapper. That green behind the ears. That freshman. That young-blood. That interloper. AOC? Is a fireplug, a firebrand. That can leap tall buildings, and even stop the richest man in the world, Jeff Bezos. Like it or not, she's a wonder woman ... shaping history.

So look out for her Green New Deal. She's coming for your cars, not your guns.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNP

I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump.

Ditto bro ZNP. I did a write in.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That upstart. That whippersnapper. That green behind the ears. That freshman. That young-blood. That interloper. AOC? Is a fireplug, a firebrand. That can leap tall buildings, and even stop the richest man in the world, Jeff Bezos. Like it or not, she's a wonder woman ... shaping history.

So look out for her Green New Deal. She's coming for your cars, not your guns.

Will she really stop Bezos? Hardly.

But AOC and The Green Dream is coming for more than cars and guns. What will they have to take from you before you learn who is hiding behind the curtain? How long will her pretty smile deceive you?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

If I had trusted Trump to stand this strongly for a pro life stance I would have voted for him in the last election. I didn't vote for either candidate because I had seen enough of Clinton to not vote for her and didn't trust Trump.

When learning to trust people, we need to know what to look for.

It also helps to know the character of those who hate him.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When learning to trust people, we need to know what to look for.

It also helps to know the character of those who hate him.

My judgement was not based on pundits, it was based on his words, his behavior for many, many years. I have seen Donald Trump repeatedly in NY.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It doesn't violate the separation of church and state because that limits the state, not the church.


But what Jeffers did violates the truth.

Perhaps, but the IRS has ruled that once pastors act like a political action committee they have lost their tax exempt status.

It is one thing to preach from the Bible against abortion, it is another to castigate Christians for being anti Trump. That is political speech and is not tax exempt.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That upstart. That whippersnapper. That green behind the ears. That freshman. That young-blood. That interloper. AOC? Is a fireplug, a firebrand. That can leap tall buildings, and even stop the richest man in the world, Jeff Bezos. Like it or not, she's a wonder woman ... shaping history.

So look out for her Green New Deal. She's coming for your cars, not your guns.

“A small group of politicians put their own narrow political interests above their community — which poll after poll showed overwhelmingly supported bringing Amazon to Long Island City — the state’s economic future and the best interests of the people of this state,” the governor said in a statement.

Her issue was that the company was getting $3 billion in tax incentives. This is a good example of how those who are not good at math cause all the problems. Giving $3 billion in tax incentives doesn't mean you give them $3 billion, it means you give them tax breaks. What are they going to do? Build a headquarters employing construction workers and engineers and architects as well as purchasing lots of building supplies. All of those industries will be paying tax. Then they will hire 25,000 workers, all of whom will be paying tax. Once the incentives run out Amazon.com will be centered here and paying tax. In addition their location here would raise property values, which in turn raises property tax. By giving $3 billion in tax incentives you get more than $3 billion in tax revenue.

Then there is the peripheral benefit. For example this would have been a great opportunity for college students at CUNY, Columbia, Cooper Union, and NYU. Students would want to go to those schools knowing that getting a job as an intern is likely. Also there are contractors who work with Amazon.com that would have benefited.

Ocasio is an idiot.

So what are their claims: Amazon claimed 50,000 jobs would come to NYC but now are only planning on hiring 25,000. Corporations need to pay their fair share of taxes. Also, prices would go up so if you are renting it would make your life more expensive. The first complaint is a great example of how people who don't understand math are really the cause of all problems, the second two concerns are very reasonable concerns, but this in no way addresses that. 50,000 jobs coming to NYC includes all the peripheral jobs, not just the 25,000 they hire. This has been proven. These people buy houses, that gives jobs to real estate agents and construction workers. They buy groceries, have day care, get their hair done, etc. What do you do with your paycheck, if 90% of it goes to expenses and those expenses are paid to people in your neighborhood, these 25,000 good paying jobs support another 25,000 service jobs.

As for the other 2 concerns: Do you think kicking Amazon.com out of NYC will change corporations getting tax breaks? The reason corporations get tax breaks is because cities live on jobs. If you don't have jobs the city dies. Taxing corporations is stupid, even income tax is stupid. The only tax that makes sense is a sales tax. See the thread on a city divided.

Second, it is true that if you rent and do not have an advanced degree your rent might go up and you wouldn't get one of those high paying jobs they wanted. It is also true that the neighborhood they were planning to build in might not be the true beneficiary as the best jobs would probably go to people who live in the suburbs and might be moving to NYC.

So the beneficiaries are those who own property and have higher education, but the neighborhood they want to build in is filled with people who are neither property owners or highly educated. What then will be the solution? Will Amazon.com instead move to Westchester or Long Island, wealthier neighborhoods? Suppose they do that, what happens to that poor neighborhood they were going to move to? This is how the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

So what is the solution? For corporations not paying their fair share, eliminate all corporate taxes. If taxes were solely sales tax there is no way Amazon.com gets any tax break at all. Also if the problem is poor education what we need is to fund education for the inner city with programs like the one funded by Amazon.com. And how about the poor, what could they do to change from being poor to becoming an owner? Perhaps start their own business and sell on Amazon.com. I heard of people who literally buy stuff at Walmart and then resell it on Amazon.com. If someone is living in a rural area it is like hiring your personal "buyer" to get what you need and then mail it to you.

Like I said, Ocasio is an idiot and all those singing her song are merely expressing their ignorance.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Perhaps, but the IRS has ruled that once pastors act like a political action committee they have lost their tax exempt status.

It is one thing to preach from the Bible against abortion, it is another to castigate Christians for being anti Trump. That is political speech and is not tax exempt.

Then why do we constantly see Democrats politicking in black churches?

Any idea what democrats do to their own who go off the reservation?

We need fair rules for all, not selective application, like we see with deep state actors who launched the Trump Dossier.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Ocasio is an idiot.

She merely has a systemic millennial disease -- lack of real education about history, politics, and economics -- hence, they are convinced that Robinhood socialism is utopian.

But, you can't blame her, since most of NYC and the aging posters here are also inflicted.

This is why we need a successful business man, like Bloomberg or Shultz, to run as an Independent in 2020.


Tell Gov. Cuomo and his buddies in Albany that they can console themselves with the slaughter of the unborn. Why don't they turn their pink lights on again. And they can always blame Trump for their economic woes, eh?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But, you can't blame her, since most of NYC and the aging posters here are also inflicted.

OMG! I should have worn a condom!

[awareness]

Now back to politics and the church :

“Let me say this as charitably as I can,” Dr. Robert Jeffress said on The Todd Starnes Radio Show. “These ‘Never Trump’ evangelicals are morons. They are absolutely spineless morons and they cannot admit that they were wrong.”

https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/jef...=recirculation

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

OMG! I should have worn a condom!

That won't protect you from being an idiot.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Now back to politics and the church :

“Let me say this as charitably as I can,” Dr. Robert Jeffress said on The Todd Starnes Radio Show. “These ‘Never Trump’ evangelicals are morons. They are absolutely spineless morons and they cannot admit that they were wrong.”

https://www.toddstarnes.com/show/jef...=recirculation

Yes it does appear the tide is turning:

1. The hypocrisy of fighting Trump on border security when quite a few previous presidents including Democrats paid to build a fence on the border.

2. The insubordination of the FBI in plotting to overthrow the president. Even if they want to now claim it was merely coarse jesting it is something they should now be ashamed of.

3. This unraveling plot by these Empire actors to somehow discredit Trump supporters.

4. This investigation into Trump has gone on for 2 years. If they have uncovered evidence of our President colluding with Russia it is unthinkable that they would not have acted on it already.

5. The hypocrisy in how they treated Kavanaugh versus how they have treated Democrats with similar accusations about their high school years.

Like Mr. Weasley always says "truth will out".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Yes it does appear the tide is turning:

1. The hypocrisy of fighting Trump on border security when quite a few previous presidents including Democrats paid to build a fence on the border.

2. The insubordination of the FBI in plotting to overthrow the president. Even if they want to now claim it was merely coarse jesting it is something they should now be ashamed of.

3. This unraveling plot by these Empire actors to somehow discredit Trump supporters.

4. This investigation into Trump has gone on for 2 years. If they have uncovered evidence of our President colluding with Russia it is unthinkable that they would not have acted on it already.

5. The hypocrisy in how they treated Kavanaugh versus how they have treated Democrats with similar accusations about their high school years.

Like Mr. Weasley always says "truth will out".

Wow! After two years, I do believe you are starting to agree with what I have been saying. I can't believe my eyes!

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow! After two years, I do believe you are starting to agree with what I have been saying. I can't believe my eyes!

I have been saying the same thing for the last 2 years. My point is that I am all for the investigation, not because I was convinced of Trump's guilt but because I felt the truth would be revealed. Just like Paul said "don't judge before the time".

[ZNPaaneah]

Jussie Smollett 'now officially classified as a suspect' in alleged attack: Police

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Jussie Smollett 'now officially classified as a suspect' in alleged attack: Police

Smollett longed to be a national hero successfully fighting off those evil Trump-supporting-MAGA-Land-Red-Cap-wearing white supremacist homophobes who attacked him in Chicago in the middle of the night.

Had they found two random white guys on the street that night, undoubtedly Smollett would have testified against them, convicting them for hate crimes. Two innocent men in prison would be the least of our problems though.

In Ferguson, the "Hands-Up-Don't-Shoot" hoax went viral overnight. We saw cities burned down and police officers get gunned down. Smollett's hoax could have launched riots worse than Rodney King, but by God's mercy, the surveillance cameras were aimed the wrong way.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We need a way to resolve these "he said, she said, MeToo" accusations. Few of these can be prosecuted, and trials take way too long. What if Fairfax is totally innocent? There has to be standards of evidence to address these issues for elected officials.

I think this Smullett case demonstrates that the Lord's prophecy "what you say in secret will be shouted from the rooftop" is being fulfilled. Listen to the DA illustrate step by step how they were able to piece together the evidence and it should be a major revelation that we do have the power to resolve the true accusations from the false ones. The problem comes when someone makes an accusation that is 40 years old. We do have a process for those as well, it is supposed to be a grand jury which is supposed to be secret. The idea is that if you tell what you know but can't prove it might lend credence to other similar reports you were not aware of. But the Kavanaugh hearing violated that. Unless the congresswoman who did that grandstanding is held accountable we will see that again and again.

[Ohio]

Take a look at this collection of HOAXES perpetrated on the American people to convince us that Trump and us all are hateful racists ...

On top of that lie, there were …

• The anti-Muslim hoax at the University of Michigan.
• The bisexual hate mail hoax at North Park University.
• The black woman accosted by Trump supporters hoax at a Philadelphia gas station.
• The Muslim who had her hijab ripped off her head by a MAGA-hat wearing racist hoax in Louisiana.
• The guy who spray-painted “Heil Trump” on his own church hoax in Indiana.
• The Muslim woman attacked by Trump supporters hoax in New York.
• The Whole Foods wrote “fag” on my cake hoax in Texas.
• The white guy paints “nigger lover” on his own garage and sets his own cars on fire hoax in Texas.
• The Muslim woman who slashed her own face hoax in New York.
• The Muslim student writes hate graffiti on his own door hoax at Beloit College.
• The black student who wrote racist notes hoax at St. Olaf College.
• The guy in the Air Force who wrote “Go home nigger” to himself hoax in Colorado.
• The man who wrote racist slurs on his own car hoax in Kansas City.
• The non-white guy who wrote racist slurs in a bathroom hoax in Missouri.
• The waiter who wrote a racist note to himself hoax in Texas.
• The waitress who wrote a racist note to herself hoax in Texas.
• The woman who slashed her own tires and wrote a note to herself hoax in Long Island.
• The student who wrote racist notes to herself hoax at Drake University.
• The black church burned in the name of Trump by a black parishioner hoax in Mississippi.
• The Great Chipotle Race Hoax of 2018.

And on and on and on ….

This is why Smollett must face the full weight of the law.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Take a look at this collection of HOAXES perpetrated on the American people to convince us that Trump and us all are hateful racists ...

On top of that lie, there were …

• The anti-Muslim hoax at the University of Michigan.
• The bisexual hate mail hoax at North Park University.
• The black woman accosted by Trump supporters hoax at a Philadelphia gas station.
• The Muslim who had her hijab ripped off her head by a MAGA-hat wearing racist hoax in Louisiana.
• The guy who spray-painted “Heil Trump” on his own church hoax in Indiana.
• The Muslim woman attacked by Trump supporters hoax in New York.
• The Whole Foods wrote “fag” on my cake hoax in Texas.
• The white guy paints “nigger lover” on his own garage and sets his own cars on fire hoax in Texas.
• The Muslim woman who slashed her own face hoax in New York.
• The Muslim student writes hate graffiti on his own door hoax at Beloit College.
• The black student who wrote racist notes hoax at St. Olaf College.
• The guy in the Air Force who wrote “Go home nigger” to himself hoax in Colorado.
• The man who wrote racist slurs on his own car hoax in Kansas City.
• The non-white guy who wrote racist slurs in a bathroom hoax in Missouri.
• The waiter who wrote a racist note to himself hoax in Texas.
• The waitress who wrote a racist note to herself hoax in Texas.
• The woman who slashed her own tires and wrote a note to herself hoax in Long Island.
• The student who wrote racist notes to herself hoax at Drake University.
• The black church burned in the name of Trump by a black parishioner hoax in Mississippi.
• The Great Chipotle Race Hoax of 2018.

And on and on and on ….

This is why Smollett must face the full weight of the law.

Hardly the conclusion I would make. I would conclude that this is great fodder for Trump's reelection campaign. He should put people on it immediately to make ads and even a documentary movie.

As for Smollett their are already calls for this. It has been pointed out that he may be guilty of two or even three counts of felonies. He will also probably be sued for the cost of the investigation. He has lost two jobs already due to this and probably will be unemployable going forward. And with Trump asking about the slander to MAGA it suggests when all that is said and done he could still be sued by MAGA, as ironic as that is since instead of harm his pretense will ultimately be more help to Trump's MAGA campaign than anything else could be.

I heard someone say "America is so great he had to hire two guys from Nigeria to jump him".

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Take a look at this collection of HOAXES perpetrated on the American people to convince us that Trump and us all are hateful racists ...

On top of that lie, there were …

• The anti-Muslim hoax at the University of Michigan.
• The bisexual hate mail hoax at North Park University.
• The black woman accosted by Trump supporters hoax at a Philadelphia gas station.
• The Muslim who had her hijab ripped off her head by a MAGA-hat wearing racist hoax in Louisiana.
• The guy who spray-painted “Heil Trump” on his own church hoax in Indiana.
• The Muslim woman attacked by Trump supporters hoax in New York.
• The Whole Foods wrote “fag” on my cake hoax in Texas.
• The white guy paints “nigger lover” on his own garage and sets his own cars on fire hoax in Texas.
• The Muslim woman who slashed her own face hoax in New York.
• The Muslim student writes hate graffiti on his own door hoax at Beloit College.
• The black student who wrote racist notes hoax at St. Olaf College.
• The guy in the Air Force who wrote “Go home nigger” to himself hoax in Colorado.
• The man who wrote racist slurs on his own car hoax in Kansas City.
• The non-white guy who wrote racist slurs in a bathroom hoax in Missouri.
• The waiter who wrote a racist note to himself hoax in Texas.
• The waitress who wrote a racist note to herself hoax in Texas.
• The woman who slashed her own tires and wrote a note to herself hoax in Long Island.
• The student who wrote racist notes to herself hoax at Drake University.
• The black church burned in the name of Trump by a black parishioner hoax in Mississippi.
• The Great Chipotle Race Hoax of 2018.

And on and on and on ….

This is why Smollett must face the full weight of the law.

I know! Why all the hoaxes against Trump? He must be a hoax magnate or something. Or Bill Clinton must have rubbed off on him.

But it takes one to know one. Trump was a birther hoaxer. Hoaxer's attract hoaxer's ... birds of a feather thing ... or Trump is reaping his karma. He's not a saint by any way shape or means. The GOP has sold their soul, and principles, out to an unprincipled fake republican.

Trump is someone a lot of people love to hate. He's earned it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I know! Why all the hoaxes against Trump? He must be a hoax magnate or something. Or Bill Clinton must have rubbed off on him.

But it takes one to know one. Trump was a birther hoaxer. Hoaxer's attract hoaxer's ... birds of a feather thing ... or Trump is reaping his karma. He's not a saint by any way shape or means. The GOP has sold their soul, and principles, out to an unprincipled fake republican.

Trump is someone a lot of people love to hate. He's earned it.

I watched professional forensics experts identify Obama's papers as frauds. With all your vast learning, you should be able to identify a fraud and a hoax, unless of course you don't like to know the truth.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I watched professional forensics experts identify Obama's papers as frauds. With all your vast learning, you should be able to identify a fraud and a hoax, unless of course you don't like to know the truth.

Oh okay. Obama rubbed off on Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Trump is someone a lot of people love to hate. He's earned it.

So all these hoaxes are from people who hate Trump because he accused Obama of being a hoax?

Are they saying that Trump's accusation of hoax was a hoax? If that is the case then "I hate you because you are just like me".

Or, which would make a lot more sense, are they saying Trump's accusation of hoax was on point. In that case "I hate you because you exposed me as a liar".

[ZNPaaneah]

I think the #MeToo movement will get a lot more traction if they focus on people like Kelly, Weinstein, and Cosby and distance themselves from the Kavanaugh attacks and anything like that. Help put the rich and powerful predators behind bars. I think 99% of us will support that.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I think the #MeToo movement will get a lot more traction if they focus on people like Kelly, Weinstein, and Cosby and distance themselves from the Kavanaugh attacks and anything like that. Help put the rich and powerful predators behind bars. I think 99% of us will support that.

That would mean Jeffrey Epstein's rich and famous friends, that flew on his Lolita Express plane, to his private island of underage girls, like Bill Clinton, and Trump, would be put behind bars.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That would mean Jeffrey Epstein's rich and famous friends, that flew on his Lolita Express plane, to his private island of underage girls, like Bill Clinton, and Trump, would be put behind bars.

So Trump is now guilty of Epstein's crimes because he is also "rich and famous?"

Is it all a joke with you?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

That would mean Jeffrey Epstein's rich and famous friends, that flew on his Lolita Express plane, to his private island of underage girls, like Bill Clinton, and Trump, would be put behind bars.

You have a couple of issues here. Private Island indicates no longer US law but international law. So what is the international law?

Second, how did the "underage girls" get there? Are they underage according to international law or US law? Did they come from the US or other countries? If they are not "underage" by international law then how did they get there? Was their fraud involved or was it a legal contract?

I don't know enough about what you are referring to. However, based on what I do know about other countries and what they consider a legal age I suspect that international law on these matters is quite different from US law.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You have a couple of issues here. Private Island indicates no longer US law but international law. So what is the international law?

Second, how did the "underage girls" get there? Are they underage according to international law or US law? Did they come from the US or other countries? If they are not "underage" by international law then how did they get there? Was their fraud involved or was it a legal contract?

I don't know enough about what you are referring to. However, based on what I do know about other countries and what they consider a legal age I suspect that international law on these matters is quite different from US law.

Look into it. You'll find answers. Just google Jeffrey Epstein ... then Jeffrey Epstein and Lolita Express.

By any standard, Epstein, Clinton, Trump, and other rich and famous, were doing wrong, and they knew it.

And Epstein plead guilty, but only got 13 months, on work release, cuz so many rich and famous, the guilty ones, put their riches behind him to get him off. And he won't release the names of his fellow pedophiles, except Clinton and Trump, but the case is being re-adjudicated, so all the pedophiles might be exposed. Let's hope.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Look into it. You'll find answers. Just google Jeffrey Epstein ... then Jeffrey Epstein and Lolita Express.

By any standard, Epstein, Clinton, Trump, and other rich and famous, were doing wrong, and they knew it.

And Epstein plead guilty, but only got 13 months, on work release, cuz so many rich and famous, the guilty ones, put their riches behind him to get him off. And he won't release the names of his fellow pedophiles, except Clinton and Trump, but the case is being re-adjudicated, so all the pedophiles might be exposed. Let's hope.

As some idiot said on the news recently about R. Kelly -- "it is a bad time to be a pedophile" (is there a good time -- ancient Greece?). Yes, this is an issue that #MeToo should sink their teeth into.

[ZNPaaneah]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...042510777.html

So this presents a conundrum to both democrats and republicans.

If you are a firm believer in climate change, you should also realize the impending threat from caravans of refugees coming to our country, hence the need for a wall/fence/barrier. So why are those so insistent on doing something about climate change fighting so hard to stop the construction of this barrier?

(If you compare the cost -- $5 billion to the total US budget is similar to a family whose gross income is 100k buying one of the cheapest and most basic front doors offered by Home Depot -- JELD-WEN
32 in. x 80 in. MODA Primed PMC1011 Solid Core Wood Interior Door Slab w/Clear Glass, however this door is relatively more expensive to that family than the proposed front wall).

Also, please note that the Federal govt is going to get about 40% back from taxes. If you factor that in then it would be comparable to the cheapest piece of garbage door sold by Homedepot.

(Do not worry about Ohio rubbing your nose in this, he has completely repudiated anything Al Gores says).

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...042510777.html

So this presents a conundrum to both democrats and republicans.

If you are a firm believer in climate change, you should also realize the impending threat from caravans of refugees coming to our country, hence the need for a wall/fence/barrier. So why are those so insistent on doing something about climate change fighting so hard to stop the construction of this barrier?

(If you compare the cost -- $5 billion to the total US budget is similar to a family whose gross income is 100k spending less than $100 on a lock for the front door).

(Do not worry about Ohio rubbing your nose in this, he has completely repudiated anything Al Gores says).

Oh, how I love those hanging chads in Florida!

Then, Mr Climatologist "Ozone Al" Gore, why aren't these migrant caravans from Central America heading into Venezuela, the socialist utopia at the forefront of Greenyism?

Venezuela has successfully destroyed their oil industry in the name of socialism and the "evils" of Big Oil, thus solving all of their country's ills. Right Al? Venezuela has successfully reduced their "carbon footprint." Isn't that a great thing, folks?

If you want to see into AOC's New Green Deal "crystal ball," just watch the news in Venezuela.

Anybody watch ole Bernie Sanders tell us all how "government is working" for us, when we stand in line and receive our free food? Hey Bernie, tell us again about the evils of crony capitalism from your new Lake Champlain getaway vacation home, which was your consolation prize from the DNC for dropping out of the 2016 race against Hillaree?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh, how I love those hanging chads in Florida!

Then, Mr Climatologist "Ozone Al" Gore, why aren't these migrant caravans from Central America heading into Venezuela, the socialist utopia at the forefront of Greenyism?

Venezuela has successfully destroyed their oil industry in the name of socialism and the "evils" of Big Oil, thus solving all of their country's ills. Right Al? Venezuela has successfully reduced their "carbon footprint." Isn't that a great thing, folks?

If you want to see into AOC's New Green Deal "crystal ball," just watch the news in Venezuela.

Anybody watch ole Bernie Sanders tell us all how "government is working" for us, when we stand in line and receive our free food? Hey Bernie, tell us again about the evils of crony capitalism from your new Lake Champlain getaway vacation home, which was your consolation prize from the DNC for dropping out of the 2016 race against Hillaree?

https://www.google.com/search?q=grap...BRCSWZDspj3hM:

Some argue that the real reason for the focus on Venezuela is that poverty is decreasing, fewer people in poverty and that is the real threat.

Any fair and reasonable person would agree that in a developed nation like the US we should have universal health care. Bernie was ahead of the curve on this. Even conservatives who are very focused on cost/benefit analysis would agree that universal healthcare makes fiscal sense for all Americans.

Bernie is also pushing free college in the same way that public school is free. At first I thought this was idiotic, but since then I have seen more accurately what he is calling for (no impact on private schools, but rather public universities). I agree with him. The jobs that you only needed a HS degree for 50 years ago you now need a college degree. Also, the return on investment to the government from the increased tax revenue more than pays for the cost. Also, HS teachers now need graduate degrees, hence those who teach HS have the qualifications that were necessary to teach college 50 years ago.

The only way the US maintains a position as one of the top countries in the world is through having an educated populace. Even conservatives should understand the cost/benefits. You can see the benefit to the US for having universal public school available to all through 12th grade. You can compare it with countries that don't offer this. Seeing the benefits we have gotten over the last 50 years we should therefore improve this program to include undergraduate degrees.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Any fair and reasonable person would agree that in a developed nation like the US we should have universal health care.

Sure. These same fair and reasonable people felt that Hillaree should not be indicted.

Don'cha just love it when CNN becomes the "voice" for all America.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Bernie is also pushing free college in the same way that public school is free. At first I thought this was idiotic, but since then I have seen more accurately what he is calling for (no impact on private schools, but rather public universities). I agree with him.

Kids can now graduate from HS not able to read or write. Soon they will be able to graduate from College with the same level of incompetence. And with "No child left behind" legislation, we will dumb down all the universities to their level.

Education should be optional, only for those who want to learn. Otherwise a few bad actors spoil it for all the rest.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh, how I love those hanging chads in Florida!

And I suppose you love the Brooks Brothers riot ... that rigged that election in Florida.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

And I suppose you love the Brooks Brothers riot ... that rigged that election in Florida.

Just peaceful protests that forced the crooks to be honest. No masks on their faces, eh?

You don't know "riot" until you see the Left's violent protests and hoaxes.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Just peaceful protests that forced the crooks to be honest. No masks on their faces, eh?

You don't know "riot" until you see the Left's violent protests and hoaxes.

Hundreds of paid GOP operatives descended upon South Florida to protest the state's recounts,[1] with at least half a dozen of the demonstrators at Miami-Dade paid by George W. Bush's recount committee.[2] Several of these protesters were identified as Republican staffers and a number later went on to jobs in the Bush administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Kids can now graduate from HS not able to read or write. Soon they will be able to graduate from College with the same level of incompetence. And with "No child left behind" legislation, we will dumb down all the universities to their level.

Education should be optional, only for those who want to learn. Otherwise a few bad actors spoil it for all the rest.

Baloney, no kid could graduate from NY HS not being able to read or write. They have to pass 5 Regents exams for the most basic diploma. They may not be graduating similar to a student who gets into Brown or Harvard, but they can read and write and the improvement over 100 years prior is very dramatic.

"Optional" -- yes I agree. Not being able to afford to go to school should not be a filter, simply if you want to or not.

Second the SAT is a very good test at proving someone can read and do algebra.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hundreds of paid GOP operatives descended upon South Florida to protest the state's recounts,[1] with at least half a dozen of the demonstrators at Miami-Dade paid by George W. Bush's recount committee.[2] Several of these protesters were identified as Republican staffers and a number later went on to jobs in the Bush administration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot

People with money will always have an advantage. But the truth is a far bigger advantage.

Face facts, these riots that destroy property and get people hurt damage the reputation of those who are rioting. There are a lot of people who try to use this climate for self promotion. Jussie Smollett is simply the ugliest example. The politician who claimed he was a modern day victim of lynching is another.

When we see videos of cars burning and shops being looted there is no respect for the rioters or their cause.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Baloney, no kid could graduate from NY HS not being able to read or write. They have to pass 5 Regents exams for the most basic diploma. They may not be graduating similar to a student who gets into Brown or Harvard, but they can read and write and the improvement over 100 years prior is very dramatic.

"Optional" -- yes I agree. Not being able to afford to go to school should not be a filter, simply if you want to or not.

Second the SAT is a very good test at proving someone can read and do algebra.

SAT scores are now curved to create a moving target in order to compensate for the declining scores every year.

Too many kids are passed along because failing is too expensive.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

People with money will always have an advantage. But the truth is a far bigger advantage.

Face facts, these riots that destroy property and get people hurt damage the reputation of those who are rioting. There are a lot of people who try to use this climate for self promotion. Jussie Smollett is simply the ugliest example. The politician who claimed he was a modern day victim of lynching is another.

When we see videos of cars burning and shops being looted there is no respect for the rioters or their cause.

When it comes to protesting, the opposite is true. Those with money and are working have no time to riot, protest, or vandalize. They have too much to lose. Those on welfare and food stamps, however, are prime targets to make a few extra bucks throwing rocks at storefronts with a ski-mask on.

Where's all the prosecutions for these rioters? In Baltimore, the police were instructed to "stand down" and let the rioters "blow off steam." The Mayor, the Police Chief, and the Council President were all African American, as if that is supposed bring fairness to the inner city.

There may be "no respect for the rioters or their cause," but neither are there consequences in most cases.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

SAT scores are now curved to create a moving target in order to compensate for the declining scores every year.

Too many kids are passed along because failing is too expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educat..._United_States

Any unbiased opinion would agree that we have made steady and tremendous progress with education since 1940.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When it comes to protesting, the opposite is true. Those with money and are working have no time to riot, protest, or vandalize. They have too much to lose. Those on welfare and food stamps, however, are prime targets to make a few extra bucks throwing rocks at storefronts with a ski-mask on.

This is where conservatives and socialists can see eye to eye. The best thing for the country, the best thing for tax revenue, the best thing for security, is to make every citizen a stake holder. If everyone is middle class and owns a home and a car, they will all have something to lose.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Where's all the prosecutions for these rioters? In Baltimore, the police were instructed to "stand down" and let the rioters "blow off steam." The Mayor, the Police Chief, and the Council President were all African American, as if that is supposed bring fairness to the inner city.

There may be "no respect for the rioters or their cause," but neither are there consequences in most cases.

All of these businesses and most of these cars are insured. This means that every little person who is harmed has a very big insurance company with resources, lawyers, influence and power to prosecute. However if they choose to simply pay out rather than prosecute that is a business decision (how much will it cost, how much will we benefit). If they determine the cost outweighs the benefit they might simply pay out the damages.

However, that does not mean there aren't consequences for these people.

1. Many of those in these riot areas will have lots of consequences. Banks may realize that this is a bad area when comparing mortgages that pay out versus those that go belly up and may stop loaning money. The neighborhood pays.

2. House prices drop, insurance prices go up. As a result many will default on their mortgage which in turn causes the neighborhood to drop in value (lots of boarded up houses). The neighborhood pays.

3. Insurance for business goes up. Some of these businesses will fail, some will close, and some will raise their prices. Again, the neighborhood pays.

4. The school system is funded by property tax. If property values drop the tax revenue also drops. If people move out, the tax revenue drops. This is called "white flight". The neighborhood pays.

The problem is if you have people in society which have nothing to lose. Everyone should want a society where every member has a vested interest in the society going forward.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is where conservatives and socialists can see eye to eye. The best thing for the country, the best thing for tax revenue, the best thing for security, is to make every citizen a stake holder. If everyone is middle class and owns a home and a car, they will all have something to lose.

The poorest people in America have a car, a home, and a smart car. If you want to see poor, go overseas.

The Left has convinced some that it is evil when others have more than they do. The greatest disparity of wealth is always found in Democratic strongholds. The Democratic Party is the party of the wealthy and the poor.

That's why these "haters" should not protest conservatives like Trump, rather they should go after the Democratic Politicians who refuse to secure the border and want their jobs and homes to go to illegal aliens.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The poorest people in America have a car, a home, and a smart car. If you want to see poor, go overseas.

The Left has convinced some that it is evil when others have more than they do. The greatest disparity of wealth is always found in Democratic strongholds. The Democratic Party is the party of the wealthy and the poor.

That's why these "haters" should not protest conservatives like Trump, rather they should go after the Democratic Politicians who refuse to secure the border and want their jobs and homes to go to illegal aliens.

65% of Americans own their own home. That means 1/3 of Americans don't. Now the vast majority of American's net worth is the equity in their home. This indicates that a third of Americans don't have any net worth, they have nothing to lose.

8% of the US population have felony convictions. 33% of the African American community do. It is extremely difficult to become gainfully employed after having a felony conviction, so these convictions pretty much doom a person to life of poverty. It is also quite obvious that the justice system is biased. (I personally think the bias is towards the color green more than brown or black.)

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When it comes to protesting, the opposite is true. Those with money and are working have no time to riot, protest, or vandalize. They have too much to lose. Those on welfare and food stamps, however, are prime targets to make a few extra bucks throwing rocks at storefronts with a ski-mask on.

Where's all the prosecutions for these rioters? In Baltimore, the police were instructed to "stand down" and let the rioters "blow off steam." The Mayor, the Police Chief, and the Council President were all African American, as if that is supposed bring fairness to the inner city.

There may be "no respect for the rioters or their cause," but neither are there consequences in most cases.

This Joly case will be the second, I expect both Smollett and Joly will receive "consequences".

I did not see any evidence provided yet as to why they think Joly set the fire. However, insurance companies will do extensive investigations when their is evidence of arson (easy to spot). This doesn't mean Joly is guilty but you can be sure the insurance company is going to fight this person to the fullest extent.

Either way, innocent or guilty, this is the beginning of the backlash as a result of false claims of hate crimes. If Joly turns out to be guilty you can be sure the backlash will get even stronger.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This Joly case will be the second, I expect both Smollett and Joly will receive "consequences".

I did not see any evidence provided yet as to why they think Joly set the fire. However, insurance companies will do extensive investigations when their is evidence of arson (easy to spot). This doesn't mean Joly is guilty but you can be sure the insurance company is going to fight this person to the fullest extent.

Either way, innocent or guilty, this is the beginning of the backlash as a result of false claims of hate crimes. If Joly turns out to be guilty you can be sure the backlash will get even stronger.

Hate hoaxes have to be prosecuted. Good for the Chicago PD for bringing up how 85% of their murders go unsolved, and Smollett burned up their valuable resources with his hoax. After all that, the only charge they had on him was "disorderly conduct," that is until they discovered his tylenol-laced letter was a federal crime. Oops! I bet he never thought about that.

Listening to the media, the nation is still "convinced" that hate crimes are on the rise. Statistics can be used to say most anything, especially since hoaxes are in the mix. Smollett's justice needs to be national news. Unfortunately the media has already began to hide the truth, and promote conspiracy narratives about the Chicago Police Department. Too many out there have already been trained to only believe lies.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Too many out there have already been trained to only believe lies.

That's fake news bro Ohio. Where have you been getting your training?

But it is true, and obvious as all get-out : Many out there believe lies. But blame the sin -- lies -- not the sinners.

Twain, or Benjamin Disraeli, said : "There are three kinds of lies : Lies, Damned lies, and statistics."

Before the LC, we Southgate Sickies, of Southgate, Michigan, had a known liar in our group. He was still a Sickie, we didn't exclude him, but we all knew we couldn't trust a thing that he said ; he just lied tooooooo much.

That's the way I feel about our president.

And isn't this Smollett thing made into a big deal because of MAGA hats?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's fake news bro Ohio. Where have you been getting your training?

But it is true, and obvious as all get-out : Many out there believe lies. But blame the sin -- lies -- not the sinners.

And isn't this Smollett thing made into a big deal because of MAGA hats?

American Law does not blame sin, it holds criminals liable.

When numerous media types, including notable social media figures, ran with false stories -- lies -- they also should be held accountable. Honest journalism is almost dead.

Blaming Trump for Smallette's crimes, is like blaming Clinton for every #MeToo crime. Smallette is a gifted actor in his mid 30's, who has more money than any of us. Is he now excusable because he is black? Because he is gay? Because he is an actor, trying to advance his career?

Smallette inflicted a hoax on 63 Million people who voted for Trump. He tied up Chicago's PD for weeks. He was willing to send two random white guys walking the Chicago streets at 2am during a polar vortex to jail for a long time. That's what should happen to him.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Hate hoaxes have to be prosecuted. Good for the Chicago PD for bringing up how 85% of their murders go unsolved, and Smollett burned up their valuable resources with his hoax. After all that, the only charge they had on him was "disorderly conduct," that is until they discovered his tylenol-laced letter was a federal crime. Oops! I bet he never thought about that.

Listening to the media, the nation is still "convinced" that hate crimes are on the rise. Statistics can be used to say most anything, especially since hoaxes are in the mix. Smollett's justice needs to be national news. Unfortunately the media has already began to hide the truth, and promote conspiracy narratives about the Chicago Police Department. Too many out there have already been trained to only believe lies.

Sueing him for damages would always take place after he is convicted of a felony. The minute he is convicted they can file in order to get their money back. The same goes for the letter. First they have to convict him of doing it, then they can sue him for the false accusation.

Personally I think he should be tried for a hate crime. The problem is you have to show who was harmed and quantify it. Can anyone really argue that anyone else was harmed and if so what is the value of that harm? If you can do that without sounding like you have an axe to grind they could do it.

Same thing goes for Jolly. First you have to convict this person, then the bank can sue them to get the balance on the mortgage.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

And isn't this Smollett thing made into a big deal because of MAGA hats?

Not only the hats. He accused them of yelling "This is MAGA country" and he said they put a noose around his neck. Clearly it is a hate attack against those who support the MAGA campaign and an attempt to link them to lynchings. Also I think his hate letter also referenced MAGA. There is no doubt he tried to blame MAGA supporters for the racist attacks. It is clearly a hate crime, the problem is "who got harmed" and "what are the damages". Very difficult to claim this harmed "MAGA", on the contrary it will probably be a very big help. Intending to harm is not the same as actual harm.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Not only the hats. He accused them of yelling "This is MAGA country" and he said they put a noose around his neck. Clearly it is a hate attack against those who support the MAGA campaign and an attempt to link them to lynchings. Also I think his hate letter also referenced MAGA. There is no doubt he tried to blame MAGA supporters for the racist attacks. It is clearly a hate crime, the problem is "who got harmed" and "what are the damages". Very difficult to claim this harmed "MAGA", on the contrary it will probably be a very big help. Intending to harm is not the same as actual harm.

With the Smallette hoax, no reparations will be sought by any individuals or entities.

Personally, I think public shaming and honest heart-felt apologies are needed most, along with reimbursement to the Chicago PD. Who could ever believe this guy again? I don't really care if he serves time. I would rather see an end to all hoaxes.

With Sandmann, however, as a totally innocent minor, attacked for his race, his religion, and his pro-life views, I would like to see the severest of penalties placed on all those who slandered him, both individuals and medias.

[awareness]

During our first civil war both sides were certain that God was on their side, and they both considered their side a Christian Nation.

Are we headed that way again?

In America, talk turns to something unspoken for 150 years: Civil war

https://www.lmtonline.com/news/artic...r-13654893.php

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

During our first civil war both sides were certain that God was on their side, and they both considered their side a Christian Nation.

Are we headed that way again?

In America, talk turns to something unspoken for 150 years: Civil war

https://www.lmtonline.com/news/artic...r-13654893.php

Ridiculous terminology. Situation today is absolutely nothing like the Civil war. States don't have any kind of army that could secede from the Union compared to the US Army and the economy of the South is essentially high tech and not some kind of antiquated slave economy.

The foundation of a country is righteousness. The ruling in Roe v. Wade was unrighteous. That has led to a crack in the union.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Ridiculous terminology. Situation today is absolutely nothing like the Civil war. States don't have any kind of army that could secede from the Union compared to the US Army and the economy of the South is essentially high tech and not some kind of antiquated slave economy.

The foundation of a country is righteousness. The ruling in Roe v. Wade was unrighteous. That has led to a crack in the union.

Well now the crack is a chasm.

Today extremism, on both the left and the right, is no longer fringe. And what about the over 80% of evangelicals that supported(s) Trump?

If you think Christians wouldn't kick off a civil war, then you haven't read much about Christians and the civil war.

And if Trump doesn't win in 2020 what do you think the neo-Nazi's, KKK, and White Supremacist's are going to do?

And let's not forget about all the MAGA hats? We don't know what they are capable of.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Well now the crack is a chasm.

Today extremism, on both the left and the right, is no longer fringe. And what about the over 80% of evangelicals that supported(s) Trump?

If you think Christians wouldn't kick off a civil war, then you haven't read much about Christians and the civil war.

And if Trump doesn't win in 2020 what do you think the neo-Nazi's, KKK, and White Supremacist's are going to do?

And let's not forget about all the MAGA hats? We don't know what they are capable of.

Would you stop believing lies and urban mythology spread by the Left ...

KKK grand wizard David Duke has thrown his support behind Democratic Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard

Jerks like Duke and Farakkhan hate Israel more than anything else.

If there is civil unrest, it will come down to the Democrats demanding socialism and unlimited abortions.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Would you stop believing lies and urban mythology spread by the Left ...

KKK grand wizard David Duke has thrown his support behind Democratic Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard

Jerks like Duke and Farakkhan hate Israel more than anything else.

If there is civil unrest, it will come down to the Democrats demanding socialism and unlimited abortions.

We'll see my friend, we'll see.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Well now the crack is a chasm.

Today extremism, on both the left and the right, is no longer fringe. And what about the over 80% of evangelicals that supported(s) Trump?

If you think Christians wouldn't kick off a civil war, then you haven't read much about Christians and the civil war.

And if Trump doesn't win in 2020 what do you think the neo-Nazi's, KKK, and White Supremacist's are going to do?

And let's not forget about all the MAGA hats? We don't know what they are capable of.

Those evangelicals had a choice between Clinton and Trump. Clinton was a known entity, Trump wasn't. Trump is clearly pro life, Clinton was clearly pro choice. You could be very uneasy about Trump and still choose him because you knew Clinton was a crook, a liar, and support policies that you strongly disagree with. As many said, including Ohio, that last election was all about the SCOTUS. All evangelicals are probably much happier with the choices made by Trump.

[ZNPaaneah]

“In February, we saw a 30 percent jump over the previous month, with agents apprehending or encountering nearly 75,000 aliens,” Nielsen told the House Committee on Homeland Security. “This is an 80 percent increase over the same time last year. And I can report today that CBP is forecasting the problem will get even worse this spring as the weather warms up.”

If this continues and we get swamped with aliens we will be hearing "I told you so" at the next election.

According to the data released Wednesday, the number of family units arriving at the border has increased 338 percent since the previous fiscal year while the number of unaccompanied minors rose by 58 percent.

Democrats are going to look like complete idiots in 2 years.

Since the beginning of the fiscal year, CPB has apprehended 268,000 such immigrants at the border, an average of nearly 2,000 per day and the highest rate since 2007.

Democrats are in a terrible situation. If they refuse to listen to this testimony and we have a full blown crisis like Europe they will appear to all to be the problem. If on the other hand they do listen to this testimony and agree to a national emergency they get blamed for the shutdown.

“Our capacity is already severely strained, but these increases will overwhelm the system entirely,” Nielsen said. “This is not a ‘manufactured’ crisis. This is truly an emergency.”

Wow, if the Democrats stop Trump they will completely own any crisis. On the other hand if they concede there is a national emergency they look like complete jerks.

268,000 illegal aliens. A serious fence would certainly make the job of apprehending them easier and save manpower for things like Cartels and drugs. How many man hours does it take to round up, detain, and process 268,000 people?

Since 2000 the number of illegals entering the country has steadily dropped (until recently). However, the overall total of illegals in the country is close to an all time high of 12 million. So the size of the problem is as big as it has ever been. Most people think the cause of the problem is that there is little or no penalty for employers employing illegal aliens. However, from an enforcement standpoint it may be more practical to make it much harder to cross the border illegally so that once illegals are sent back (primarily for committing felonies) they can't return. Although the majority of illegals are not felons, they are also not the main issue. The main issue would be illegals who are felons, especially those in gangs.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The main issue would be illegals who are felons, especially those in gangs.

Oh let 'em in. More came in under Obama, and it really didn't hurt us. Obviously they're humans in need. If America is going to be a shining light on the hill, shouldn't it shine kindness and compassion to the world?

What bothers me the most is Trumps freewheeling infomercials of vitriol against these humans in need, yet, he is in love with the murdering tyrant dictator Kim Jong-un, ang cozies up to the likes of dictators like Putin and self confessed premeditated killer, Duterte.

And more, so far it looks like the percentage of bad hombres around Trump is much great than the percentage of bad hombres coming across our boarders.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh let 'em in. More came in under Obama, and it really didn't hurt us.

That is a very cold hearted thing to say to all those relatives of those who were killed by illegals.

Originally Posted by awareness

Obviously they're humans in need. If America is going to be a shining light on the hill, shouldn't it shine kindness and compassion to the world?

That is a ridiculous argument. Since they are humans in need they get to jump in front of every other human in need. So all those who wait in line, let's ignore them.

Originally Posted by awareness

What bothers me the most is Trumps freewheeling infomercials of vitriol against these humans in need, yet, he is in love with the murdering tyrant dictator Kim Jong-un, ang cozies up to the likes of dictators like Putin and self confessed premeditated killer, Duterte.

Good point, except he didn't put Putin in power and he didn't put Kim in power. They were existing leaders of countries that could be quite threatening to the US. N. Korea was considered a major threat to US security before Trump became president. It may be that his approach will actually improve the situation. that would be a good thing, not a bad thing.

Originally Posted by awareness

And more, so far it looks like the percentage of bad hombres around Trump is much great than the percentage of bad hombres coming across our boarders.

"Our boarders"?! You have illegal aliens boarding with you?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

That is a very cold hearted thing to say to all those relatives of those who were killed by illegals.

Like all the gun deaths by legal Americans?

Originally Posted by ZNP

That is a ridiculous argument. Since they are humans in need they get to jump in front of every other human in need. So all those who wait in line, let's ignore them.

No I mean LET them in.

Originally Posted by ZNP

Good point, except he didn't put Putin in power and he didn't put Kim in power. They were existing leaders of countries that could be quite threatening to the US. N. Korea was considered a major threat to US security before Trump became president. It may be that his approach will actually improve the situation. that would be a good thing, not a bad thing.

Since his botched Vietnam meeting with Kim, Kim is back at it.

Originally Posted by ZNP

"Our boarders"?! You have illegal aliens boarding with you?

My bad.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Like all the gun deaths by legal Americans?

Imagine someone you cared about was murdered and the guilty party was an illegal alien that had committed previous felonies and had been deported previously. That is my point. These people have every right to feel that if the US did a better job of border security this person would never have been killed.

As it turns out most illegal aliens in gangs that commit murder have committed previous felonies and been deported previously.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Since his botched Vietnam meeting with Kim, Kim is back at it.

No worse than when Bush or Clinton was president.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Since his botched Vietnam meeting with Kim, Kim is back at it.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No worse than when Bush or Clinton was president.

And Clinton was far worse. He gave them billions to develop the nukes, in the name of "humanitarian aid."

And this summarizes the difficulty with nearly all of awareness's posts. It seems his memory of history is only as long as the time since he read his last news article from the Left.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Imagine someone you cared about was murdered and the guilty party was an illegal alien that had committed previous felonies and had been deported previously. That is my point. These people have every right to feel that if the US did a better job of border security this person would never have been killed.

As it turns out most illegal aliens in gangs that commit murder have committed previous felonies and been deported previously.

It is just incredible to think that illegal aliens regularly escape prosecution when US citizens would be indicted.

No sanctuary for US citizens, especially conservatives!

This is the Left's version of compassion. Actually it's only about more votes.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And this summarizes the difficulty with nearly all of awareness's posts. It seems his memory of history is only as long as the time since he read his last news article from the Left.

You speak of that which you don't and can't possibly know.

I'm a mugwump. I hold no loyalty to either party. No loyalty to Clinton, Bush, Obama, et al, or Trump.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

You speak of that which you don't and can't possibly know.

I'm a mugwump. I hold no loyalty to either party. No loyalty to Clinton, Bush, Obama, et al, or Trump.

I can only go by what you post, and all of your posts display an incredible loyalty to the socialist democrats. You can call your self a mugwump, but your views have little to no difference from the current batch of new Democrats. You are further to the Left than either Hilary or Obama were, at least while in office.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I can only go by what you post, and all of your posts display an incredible loyalty to the socialist democrats. You can call your self a mugwump, but your views have little to no difference from the current batch of new Democrats. You are further to the Left than either Hilary or Obama were, at least while in office.

Balderdash ... poppycock ... nonsense that you can't back up. Hillary hasn't held office.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Balderdash ... poppycock ... nonsense that you can't back up. Hillary hasn't held office.

Senator from NY?

Have you forgotten that Hillary was the most qualified Presidential candidate we have ever had?

Can you name me one policy where you differ from the DNC?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Senator from NY?

Have you forgotten that Hillary was the most qualified Presidential candidate we have ever had?

Can you name me one policy where you differ from the DNC?

Hillary most qualified? Bahahahahaha. Maybe we should impeach her.

I differ from the DNC because I'm a registered independent.

Look, I know you have to think I'm a lefty. I've known other conservative extremists, that paint even pubbies as left : like they have a obsessive compulsive disorder.

Your need to put me in a box is like that. I may display some lefty stuff, but I'm not even close to being obsessive about it. (You project your own obsession with party onto me.)

You, on the other hand, have clearly displayed -- for all to easily and clearly see, proudly btw, are so obsessively conservative, I wouldn't be surprised if Homeland Security has you on a watch list, as a possible dangerous right wing extremest.

Just your need to put everyone in conservative and liberal boxes -- generalizations beyond any hope of applying to each and everyone -- displays such obsession ; and it's going on in your head on overtime.

Look, you can be OCD about political parties -- left and right -- all you want, but at least admit you have the disorder.

I have TDS, and admit it. I've never liked the man, and don't think he's presidential material in the least. I've always seen him as a conman, going way back. So I want him out as soon as possible. Does that make me a lefty? No. It makes me a concerned citizen, applying my own personal judgments, not those of any party.

Besides, it wasn't that long ago that Trump was a democrat. Did I like him then? No!!! Political con men will go with whatever party they think will make them win. Trump's a RINO. Remember them? You use to poo poo them. You must be on some hefty doses of anti-TDS meds to not only tolerate that RINO, but to throw your support behind him. How can you hook your wagon to a RINO? You must be compromising at least some of your principles to do it. Lighten up on your anti-TDS meds and you'll perchance be able to see it.

[ZNPaaneah]

RAISE INCOMES AND RESTORE ECONOMIC SECURITY FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS
Raising Workers’ Wages -- I disagree that raising the hourly wage is all that helpful. Instead I would like there to be a minimum daily wage. It can be $64, basically 8 times the minimum wage of $8. I think that would be much more helpful. Of course , there has to be a waiver for students and those that want to work part time.

Protecting and Expanding Social Security -- totally against expanding Social Security. This has turned out to be a piggy bank for politicians to rob.

CREATE GOOD-PAYING JOBS
Building 21st Century Infrastructure -- I would support government grants for the development of Fusion, but I doubt this is what they are talking about.

Creating Good-Paying Clean Energy Jobs
Pursuing Our Innovation Agenda: Science, Research, Education, and Technology


Reining in Wall Street and Fixing our Financial System -- really? Liars. If they were going to do this they would have kept Glass Steagall.

Making the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share of Taxes -- the only way you do this is by making our tax a sales tax and eliminating all the other taxes. When you have thousand pages of tax code you encourage loopholes and high priced tax accountants gaming the system.

Promoting Trade That is Fair and Benefits American Workers -- So they are pro Trump.

Ending Systemic Racism -- By attacking those that are pro Israel? Seems hypocritical.

Closing the Racial Wealth Gap -- By claiming to be an American Indian to further your education and career? Again, your presidential candidate is a hypocrite.

Reforming our Criminal Justice System -- Require liability insurance for all gun owners. I would support that, but they have never mentioned this.

Fixing our Broken Immigration System -- really? They seem intent on keeping it broken.

PROTECT VOTING RIGHTS, FIX OUR CAMPAIGN FINANCE SYSTEM, AND RESTORE OUR DEMOCRACY -- I would support getting rid of the Electoral college. Haven't heard any suggestion about this.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hillary most qualified? Bahahahahaha. Maybe we should impeach her.

I differ from the DNC because I'm a registered independent.

Look, I know you have to think I'm a lefty. I've known other conservative extremists, that paint even pubbies as left : like they have a obsessive compulsive disorder.

Your need to put me in a box is like that. I may display some lefty stuff, but I'm not even close to being obsessive about it. (You project your own obsession with party onto me.)

You, on the other hand, have clearly displayed -- for all to easily and clearly see, proudly btw, are so obsessively conservative, I wouldn't be surprised if Homeland Security has you on a watch list, as a possible dangerous right wing extremest.

Just your need to put everyone in conservative and liberal boxes -- generalizations beyond any hope of applying to each and everyone -- displays such obsession ; and it's going on in your head on overtime.

Look, you can be OCD about political parties -- left and right -- all you want, but at least admit you have the disorder.

I have TDS, and admit it. I've never liked the man, and don't think he's presidential material in the least. I've always seen him as a conman, going way back. So I want him out as soon as possible. Does that make me a lefty? No. It makes me a concerned citizen, applying my own personal judgments, not those of any party.

Besides, it wasn't that long ago that Trump was a democrat. Did I like him then? No!!! Political con men will go with whatever party they think will make them win. Trump's a RINO. Remember them? You use to poo poo them. You must be on some hefty doses of anti-TDS meds to not only tolerate that RINO, but to throw your support behind him. How can you hook your wagon to a RINO? You must be compromising at least some of your principles to do it. Lighten up on your anti-TDS meds and you'll perchance be able to see it.

I asked you a question about where you differed from the new Socialist policies of the Democratic Party, and you hit me with this?

• I project my own obsession on you
• I am on a some watch list
• I am a dangerous right wing extremest
• I am OCD, and must admit I have the disorder

I have stated some of my conservative policies as anti-abortion, anti-judicial-activism, secure borders with legal immigration, equal justice for all, fair and balanced journalism that is accountable, against excessive government regulations, pro-American jobs, fairness in the workplace, etc.

The Democrats espoused these exact same views for decades. Even Bill Clinton after 1994 governed this way. You, however, never weigh a policy for its actual merit. You only follow every media stance to hate Trump. I never liked Obama's policies, but never displayed the vitriol you have admitted to about Trump.

Now tell me who is sick?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I asked you a question about where you differed from the new Socialist policies of the Democratic Party, and you hit me with this?

• I project my own obsession on you
• I am on a some watch list
• I am a dangerous right wing extremest
• I am OCD, and must admit I have the disorder

I have stated some of my conservative policies as anti-abortion, anti-judicial-activism, secure borders with legal immigration, equal justice for all, fair and balanced journalism that is accountable, against excessive government regulations, pro-American jobs, fairness in the workplace, etc.

What about equal pay for women? I'm for that. Is that a Demmie thing?

Originally Posted by Ohio

Even Bill Clinton after 1994 governed this way.

I hate the guy, but he did put us into the black. While Trump is breaking records with debt. And what about undoing Glass–Steagall, allowing commercial banks to become investment banks? Deregulation you like?

Originally Posted by Ohio

You only follow every media stance to hate Trump.

You have no idea of what I follow. But you have stated you follow Fox, Breitbart, and Infowars.

Plus, you're a Birther that wants Obama to go back to Kenya ... to pray on a rug 5 times a day.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

RAISE INCOMES AND RESTORE ECONOMIC SECURITY FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS
Raising Workers’ Wages -- I disagree that raising the hourly wage is all that helpful. Instead I would like there to be a minimum daily wage. It can be $64, basically 8 times the minimum wage of $8. I think that would be much more helpful. Of course , there has to be a waiver for students and those that want to work part time.

All minimum wage does is cause inflation, which hurts those, like retirees, who are on a fixed income. There is no end to the so-called "minimum," because inflation strips the buying power of yesterday's minimum wage, making it unacceptable today.

Socialism increases the speed of this destructive cycle. 20 years ago Hugo Chavez instituted socialistic policies like "living wage" in Venezuela. Today that wage is totally useless, as is yesterday's wage for those who can find work, and inflation has hit the moon.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

All minimum wage does is cause inflation, which hurts those, like retirees, who are on a fixed income. There is no end to the so-called "minimum," because inflation strips the buying power of yesterday's minimum wage, making it unacceptable today.

Socialism increases the speed of this destructive cycle. 20 years ago Hugo Chavez instituted socialistic policies like "living wage" in Venezuela. Today that wage is totally useless, as is yesterday's wage for those who can find work, and inflation has hit the moon.

Yes, I don't support increasing minimum wage, but I do support changing the law to require a minimum daily wage. The only exception is if an employee signs a waver saying they prefer part time. They could fill out a bubble sheet that would then be sent to the government, scanned in, and a robo call and letter could be sent to the employee where they verify that they were not coerced to say this. Plus on the poster in every employer it would explain this law.

Helping the poor is very beneficial -- less recidivism for felons, improved health standards on jobs, improved safety, better retention of employees, less childhood neglect.

But the Democrats for some reason keep pushing an increase of the minimum wage. This simply causes companies to outsource jobs overseas, and replace workers with robots and machinery. This hurts our economy and hurts the workers who get fired or have their hours cut.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

What about equal pay for women? I'm for that. Is that a Demmie thing?

There are lots of protections already in place. Google discovered that it was the men who were underpaid, not the women.

Much of the so called "glass ceiling" is bogus. If a woman drops out of the job market for a few years to raise her kids it is reasonable that when she returns to the job market she is making less and that she has not gotten to the CEO level at the same rate as men. Too often the statistics used to bolster the case about bias towards women is using data that has not taken this into account. You can't simply say "women on average make less than men so therefore there is an inherent bias." Likewise, a woman might not drop out of the job market but she might refuse to be relocated, or to take a promotion that requires she fly all over the world. These factors have to be taken into account.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

What about equal pay for women? I'm for that. Is that a Demmie thing?

Democrats are all talk here. News has come out that neither Bernie nor Hillary treated their staff fairly.

I hate the guy, but he did put us into the black. While Trump is breaking records with debt. And what about undoing Glass–Steagall, allowing commercial banks to become investment banks? Deregulation you like?

Both parties favor the Banking Industry. ZNP is more familiar with that. Obama gave the banks Trillions to rescue them. Both parties break records with the debt. Presently neither Party is willing to cut the debt because they won't get elected.

You have no idea of what I follow. But you have stated you follow Fox, Breitbart, and Infowars.

I read your posts. You side with the far Left every time, which is the same as saying you oppose Trump every time. You seem to quote that British Tabloid Daily Mail the most. Your hatred for Trump is way over the top. You might consider therapy.

I never read InfoWars. I do read Breitbart. Occasionally Fox. I prefer American Thinker, American Spectator, Citizen Free Press, Daily Caller, Sara Carter, Judicial Watch, S.Attkisson, One News Now, and a bunch of others.

I'm still waiting for a story where the Conservative outlets get it wrong and the Left gets it right. It may happen, but nearly 100% of the time MSM gets it wrong, or biased, or half truths, or pure lies, or sins of omission. Oh btw, how about some Russian Collusion?

Plus, you're a Birther that wants Obama to go back to Kenya ... to pray on a rug 5 times a day.

I saw video documentaries by that Cold Case AZ Sheriff using forensics experts to expose Obama's birth certificate and selective service card. No expert has disputed this evidence. The media merely mocks and smears the reputations of these guys. That is not a Fair Press, rather a corrupt propaganda operation. Obama should have been checked out on Ancestry.com before running for President.

Personally I would like to see Obama move back to Chicago and do some good helping inner city youths. They could use life-skills coaching far more than a billion dollar Presidential Library. Do some good Obama! Sorry to say, Obama did nothing for his race. That's a fact. He only stirred racial tensions, starting with Trayvon Martin and that Cambridge case, where he jumped to conclusions to create race issues.

Obama was clearly a Muslam. He even said he was -- talking to George Stuffitupalouse. He was only elected because he deceived the American people. Obama was a Manchurian Con job. Obama is in bed with racists like Farakkhan, race pimps like Al Sharpton, and Commies like Valerie Jarrett.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There are lots of protections already in place. Google discovered that it was the men who were underpaid, not the women.

Much of the so called "glass ceiling" is bogus. If a woman drops out of the job market for a few years to raise her kids it is reasonable that when she returns to the job market she is making less and that she has not gotten to the CEO level at the same rate as men. Too often the statistics used to bolster the case about bias towards women is using data that has not taken this into account. You can't simply say "women on average make less than men so therefore there is an inherent bias." Likewise, a woman might not drop out of the job market but she might refuse to be relocated, or to take a promotion that requires she fly all over the world. These factors have to be taken into account.

I read some stories about how the #MeToo movement has damaged women's opportunities, especially in executive positions in the Financial sector.

Netflix Bans Crew Workers from Looking at Each Other for Over 5 Seconds to Fight Sexual Harassment. How can women and men work together when rules like this exist?

The FBI has long standing rules in place about their agents having affairs, yet this was all brushed aside with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page. Why? Because they hated Trump! They were the "good guys." They get to break all the rules.

Women like Lousy-Ford can dream up an accusation with a guy who used to live in her same state, become a celebrated heroine, and make a Million dollars. Women like that have little incentive to be honest. What happened to #IBelieveHer when it comes to VA Democratic Lt. Governor Fairfax?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Women like Lousy-Ford can dream up an accusation with a guy who used to live in her same state, become a celebrated heroine, and make a Million dollars.

You don't know that she made it up, it is equally likely that it is true.

My issue was not with her coming forward (I believe if she is telling the truth then she should have come forward). My issue is that this should have been done behind closed doors and during the hearings months earlier. Waiting till the 11th hour and then grandstanding like this made this a blatantly obvious political ploy. Not by Ford, but by Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What happened to #IBelieveHer when it comes to VA Democratic Lt. Governor Fairfax?

There have been democrats which have called on him to resign. However, he denies it, asked for an FBI investigation, and is right to stand his ground. Kavanaugh stood his ground and was confirmed. He deserves the same presumption of innocence as anyone else. It would be a terrible precedent that a politician has to resign every time there is an accusation. That would simply encourage false accusations.

On the other hand the accusations are very public, the FBI has been called into investigate, there is no reason why this is not taken to a conclusion -- is there enough evidence to support an indictment? Yes or no?

The Smullet case is a good example of the dangers of rushing to judgement.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

You don't know that she made it up, it is equally likely that it is true.

The facts of the case prove truth or false witness. When every single claim of CB-F gets shredded with simple questioning, then we know it's not a matter of memory loss but memory "fabrications." Every part of her story was contrived and made up, and has gaping holes in her credibility. Not a shred of facts or collaboration?

The Polygraph was a lie, the witnesses she put forth rejected her, she lied about flying airplanes. Why? So that seasoned Democratic strategists would have lots of time to coach her testimony. There's no other reason.

A sworn statement released by a man alleging to be Ford’s former boyfriend appears to have answered one very important question. During her testimony last week, why did sex crimes prosecutor Rachel Mitchell ask Ford if she had ever helped someone prepare for a polygraph? It was such an out-of-nowhere question, a seeming waste of time.

Ford answered that she had “never” helped anyone prepare for a polygraph. Well, now we likely know why. The Senate Judiciary Committee might have known about this former boyfriend, and that under penalty of imprisonment, he would tell them Ford once used her skills in psychology to help a friend prepare for a polygraph. -- John Nolte

Ever find out about where she taught? It's a training ground for feminist activists. She even lied about her house having two front doors being the reason for her therapy sessions.

More from John Nolte . . .

Then we come to the most damaging elements, the facts and contradictions that actually do undermine Dr. Ford’s credibility:

• From A to Z she has aligned herself with the far-left. Look at the politicians and newspaper (Washington Post) she approached, the highly partisan lawyers she hired, and the talking points she parrots to stall Kavanaugh’s confirmation (afraid to fly, demanding an FBI investigation).
• She lied about her fear of flying. There is no question about this. In order to stall the Committee, her attorneys claimed the 1982 event had so damaged Dr. Ford she cannot be in confined spaces, most especially an airplane; so the hearing would have to wait a week. But now we know she flies all the time. Without being sarcastic, you can call her a world traveler. She travels the world for pleasure. Travel is her passion.
• There is no clean way to lay out exactly what happened, but there is no doubt Dr. Ford’s activist lawyers received the Committee’s offer to fly out to California to meet with Ford in private, and that Team Ford turned down this offer for mercenary reasons: to slow down the confirmation process (the number one goal of Democrats) and to avoid an in-depth interview of Dr. Ford by a skilled professional.
• Every single witness — Every. Single. One. — named by Ford refutes her testimony. Every person she named as being at that house party either says they remember no such thing or that it did not happen. One of those witnesses is her lifelong friend, Leland Ingham Keyser, which bring me to something that must be said…
• Again, I know I am not supposed to say this, but I thought Dr. Ford’s mask slipped more than a little when, during her Thursday testimony, she dropped her lifelong friend in the grease and did so in front of the whole world. Ford basically called Keyser a liar who was too sickly and ill to bother to tell the truth.
• This may be a small thing, but a college professor with a PhD doesn’t know what “exculpatory” means?
• Dr. Ford’s polygraph is a joke. She was only asked two very broad questions about a “statement” — Is any part of your statement false? Did you make up any part of your statement? — Because she will not supply video or audio of the polygraph session, how can we know what statement she was asked about? There were no specific questions about the actual event, Kavanaugh, or an attempted sexual assault. Polygraphs are sketchy enough, this one is a farce.
• Ford refuses to give the Committee her therapist’s notes, even after she showed them (or part of them) to the Washington Post. When your credibility is on the line, you hold nothing back.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There have been democrats which have called on him to resign. However, he denies it, asked for an FBI investigation, and is right to stand his ground. Kavanaugh stood his ground and was confirmed. He deserves the same presumption of innocence as anyone else. It would be a terrible precedent that a politician has to resign every time there is an accusation. That would simply encourage false accusations.

On the other hand the accusations are very public, the FBI has been called into investigate, there is no reason why this is not taken to a conclusion -- is there enough evidence to support an indictment? Yes or no?

You conveniently left out the part where reporters, media-types, activists, and protesters were screaming every hour of the day for Kavanaugh's neck.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The facts of the case prove truth or false witness. When every single claim of CB-F gets shredded with simple questioning, then we know it's not a matter of memory loss but memory "fabrications." Every part of her story was contrived and made up, and has gaping holes in her credibility. Not a shred of facts or collaboration?

The Polygraph was a lie, the witnesses she put forth rejected her, she lied about flying airplanes. Why? So that seasoned Democratic strategists would have lots of time to coach her testimony. There's no other reason.
Ever find out about where she taught? It's a training ground for feminist activists. She even lied about her house having two front doors being the reason for her therapy sessions.

More from John Nolte . . .

Once again, my point is simple, if this had been done behind closed doors you discourage any political motive. What is the point? I think it is undeniable that it is a political play and that would only be effective if it is done in public.

The problem is there is not enough evidence to prove it is false. Once again, it is poor practice to judge the situation without evidence. The undeniable evidence is that Feinstein's behavior was shameful, political, and needs to be dealt with.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You conveniently left out the part where reporters, media-types, activists, and protesters were screaming every hour of the day for Kavanaugh's neck.

Are you saying no reporters, media-types, activists and protesters have been screaming for Fairfax's neck?

[ZNPaaneah]

The underlying problem with all of this nasty political smear campaigns is the two party system. It is very difficult to win on policy when any real change is going to be shut down by a system run by an oligarchy. So then the best way to get elected is smear the other party.

Instead, if a state elects 6 people to the House of representatives, let the 6 candidates with the most votes get elected. Why divide the state into 6 districts with 6 elections. Get rid of the two party system and you will see representatives forming fluid coalitions to get different laws enacted. You won't be able to smear a "party" since there might be 10 different parties. The larger states elect more than 10 representatives every 2 years. You could still have 2 senators per state, that would allow 3 parties to rise to the top, but they would still need to be able to work together with all the various representatives, so that would keep them in a mode of working with others. If both senators were elected every 6 years for a particular state then the two with the most votes get in, again preventing a 2 party system.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Are you saying no reporters, media-types, activists and protesters have been screaming for Fairfax's neck?

No not at all, but the volume for him is only a 2 or 3, while Kavanaugh was a 10.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Once again, my point is simple, if this had been done behind closed doors you discourage any political motive. What is the point? I think it is undeniable that it is a political play and that would only be effective if it is done in public.

The problem is there is not enough evidence to prove it is false. Once again, it is poor practice to judge the situation without evidence. The undeniable evidence is that Feinstein's behavior was shameful, political, and needs to be dealt with.

There is plenty of evidence that Blasey-Ford was a false witness.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The underlying problem with all of this nasty political smear campaigns is the two party system. It is very difficult to win on policy when any real change is going to be shut down by a system run by an oligarchy. So then the best way to get elected is smear the other party.

Instead, if a state elects 6 people to the House of representatives, let the 6 candidates with the most votes get elected. Why divide the state into 6 districts with 6 elections. Get rid of the two party system and you will see representatives forming fluid coalitions to get different laws enacted. You won't be able to smear a "party" since there might be 10 different parties. The larger states elect more than 10 representatives every 2 years. You could still have 2 senators per state, that would allow 3 parties to rise to the top, but they would still need to be able to work together with all the various representatives, so that would keep them in a mode of working with others. If both senators were elected every 6 years for a particular state then the two with the most votes get in, again preventing a 2 party system.

So you would prefer something like the Knesset?

At this point, being locked into the Constitution, I cannot foresee such a dramatic change. We do have multiple parties, but there are really only two.

My fear is the coming disaster. Something will trigger a meltdown. Our huge debt will prevent the government from buying our way out of disaster. With so many now favorable to socialism, all private wealth would be confiscated. We would all be reduced to poverty, but we all would be the same -- just as Socialism mandates -- but we all know the ruling class would have more. All are equal, but some are always more equal, eh?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No not at all, but the volume for him is only a 2 or 3, while Kavanaugh was a 10.

Yes, well his position in the political spectrum is a 2 or 3 whereas Kavanaugh as Supreme court justice is a 10.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So you would prefer something like the Knesset?

At this point, being locked into the Constitution, I cannot foresee such a dramatic change. We do have multiple parties, but there are really only two.

My fear is the coming disaster. Something will trigger a meltdown. Our huge debt will prevent the government from buying our way out of disaster. With so many now favorable to socialism, all private wealth would be confiscated. We would all be reduced to poverty, but we all would be the same -- just as Socialism mandates -- but we all know the ruling class would have more. All are equal, but some are always more equal, eh?

How does the constitution lock us into a 2 party system? They want representatives to be based on population and for every state, still the same. They want 2 senators per state, still the same.

Initially the vice president was the guy who came in second in the voting. That seems confused, but it indicates the founders were not trying to establish a 2 party system.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How does the constitution lock us into a 2 party system? They want representatives to be based on population and for every state, still the same. They want 2 senators per state, still the same.

Sounded like you desired radical changes.

Today we have multiple parties and Independents. What about the Green Party and the Libertarian Party?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sounded like you desired radical changes.

Today we have multiple parties and Independents. What about the Green Party and the Libertarian Party?

Every single election has a single winner, as a result you force a two party system of Democrats and Republicans. However, if you have 10 winners it opens the door for a lot of parties. Since we have many states that have 10 or more representatives we could do that. Then you allow ideas held by 10% of the population to be represented, there is more opportunity for people to be heard and expressed, so less anger and resentment builds up.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Every single election has a single winner, as a result you force a two party system of Democrats and Republicans. However, if you have 10 winners it opens the door for a lot of parties. Since we have many states that have 10 or more representatives we could do that. Then you allow ideas held by 10% of the population to be represented, there is more opportunity for people to be heard and expressed, so less anger and resentment builds up.

I'm all for less anger and resentment building up, but I don't see it happening, unless the government controls the media, like in China or Russia. In Western democracies, the Left controls much of the media, and it has a vested interest in creating anger and resentment.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm all for less anger and resentment building up, but I don't see it happening, unless the government controls the media, like in China or Russia. In Western democracies, the Left controls much of the media, and it has a vested interest in creating anger and resentment.

This is because you have "left and right". If you had multiple candidates you would have the "green" candidate, the "Evangelical" candidate, the "fiscal conservative" candidate, the "human rights" candidate, etc.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm all for less anger and resentment building up, but I don't see it happening, unless the government controls the media, like in China or Russia. In Western democracies, the Left controls much of the media, and it has a vested interest in creating anger and resentment.

Democracy is like two wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner.

No way I trust the government to control the media. This is where we need men of faith.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is because you have "left and right". If you had multiple candidates you would have the "green" candidate, the "Evangelical" candidate, the "fiscal conservative" candidate, the "human rights" candidate, etc.

American politics is like a huge tree starting to fall. It used to sway left to right with the winds blowing in each election cycle. Today the socialists have taken an axe to the tree, and it's falling left. The speed of the fall is increasing.

I read a report about NYC this morning that said it all. DiBlasio's leftist policies, giveaways and higher taxes, are starting to produce results. Not good ones either. And socialists like AOC just screwed them big time over the Amazon plans. The top 1% are already pays 50% of the taxes, and AOC wants more! She wants it all! So the rich are leaving NY. Makes sense, don't it? Wait a second, not so fast, folks.

NY is now going after these rich emigrants big time. They want back taxes. For past years. It's going to get real ugly here folks. They put Manafort in jail for life for not paying $1.4 million in back taxes, just think what they can do to you! This is what always happens to socialism. As long as they can steal money from rich folks, socialism works. Then the tipping point is reached, and the tree comes crashing down. Fast. Think Venezuela.

To his credit, Trump wanted to bring home all the overseas moneys, by providing tax incentives. The economy starting booming. To the socialists, however, this is evil. This is inequality. Capitalism must be destroyed. And these voices in the Democratic Party are growing louder every day, fueled by the media. Bernie merely opened the door for all the socialists to come out of the closet. When Howard Starbucks Schultz said "whoa," the Dems trashed him. There's no going back. They are foaming at the mouth with new found power. This latest House bill is incredible. Just read it.

I can understand young and dumb Millennials buying into these failed policies, but when old guys on this forum buy into it, "Houston, we got a problem!" Sadly, the tree will crash down on all of us before they realize we got screwed. Perhaps if all the rich Democrats, like Schultz and Bezos and Bloomberg and Buffett and Gates and others, see the tree falling, they will change course, but I doubt it, since they are all rich enough to park their wealth off shore.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The FBI has long standing rules in place about their agents having affairs, yet this was all brushed aside with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page. Why? Because they hated Trump! They were the "good guys." They get to break all the rules.

Trump has long exposed the Deep State bias and corruption on the 7th Floor of the FBI Building. But this was never supposed to happen again.

Forgetting Robert Hanssen scandal's failures: FBI saw agent's affair as security risk but took little action

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Democrats are all talk here. News has come out that neither Bernie nor Hillary treated their staff fairly.

Granted. Good. So it's not a Demmie thing, and cuz I support equal pay doesn't make me a lefty. Now we're getting somewhere.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Both parties favor the Banking Industry.

Another reason I don't support either party. They're all on the take.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obama gave the banks Trillions to rescue them.

And so did Bush. And Reagan, btw.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Both parties break records with the debt.

But pubbies break records.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Presently neither Party is willing to cut the debt because they won't get elected.

Granted. But who gave big tax cuts to the rich?

Originally Posted by Ohio

I read your posts. You side with the far Left every time, which is the same as saying you oppose Trump every time.

You offend me. Cuz I'm guided by my conscience you call my conscience party aligned, and party guided. It's not.

Originally Posted by Ohio

You seem to quote that British Tabloid Daily Mail the most.

That's cuz I get many of the Daily Mail's from Drudge Report. Take it up with Matt.

And I know I've quoted from Fox too. You don't give me kudos for that. I think you have Left-Eye ; an eye looking out for any trace of the left.

What about this one? I guess I'm such a lefty that I wouldn't post :

Rick Wiles says liberals are going to put conservatives in concentration camps.

http://deadstate.org/christian-tv-ho...tration-camps/

That's because it would make, according to you "my" party, look crazy. The truth is your are right. "My party" is more than pathetic. That's why I'm a registered Independent.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Your hatred for Trump is way over the top. You might consider therapy.

I know. I should love that RINO ... like you. Is there such a thing as TDS therapy? Do they have anti-anti-TDS meds?

[quote=Ohio]I never read InfoWars.[quote]
Okay, his Youtube channel.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I do read Breitbart.

I know. I've chided you for that, as well as Alex Jones.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Occasionally Fox.

You must get your Fox thru Trump.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I prefer American Thinker, American Spectator, Citizen Free Press, Daily Caller, Sara Carter, Judicial Watch, S.Attkisson, One News Now, and a bunch of others.

And I've read them all, in my daily search for news. Don't I hang on them? No. I guess you can fairly fault me for that.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I'm still waiting for a story where the Conservative outlets get it wrong and the Left gets it right. It may happen, but nearly 100% of the time MSM gets it wrong, or biased, or half truths, or pure lies, or sins of omission.

But Rachel Maddow is winning in the ratings. I don't watch Maddow, or MSNBC. I read that on Drudge.

Originally Posted by Ohio

I saw video documentaries by that Cold Case AZ Sheriff using forensics experts to expose Obama's birth certificate and selective service card. No expert has disputed this evidence.

And Joe Arpaio is still spouting Birtherism.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/birth-certificate/

Originally Posted by Ohio

The media merely mocks and smears the reputations of these guys.

But you like it when Trump does it?

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obama should have been checked out on Ancestry.com before running for President.

And Trump should have been checked out mentally.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Personally I would like to see Obama move back to Chicago and do some good helping inner city youths. They could use life-skills coaching far more than a billion dollar Presidential Library. Do some good Obama! Sorry to say, Obama did nothing for his race. That's a fact. He only stirred racial tensions, starting with Trayvon Martin and that Cambridge case, where he jumped to conclusions to create race issues.

And Trump doesn't stir racial tensions? What planet do you live on?

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obama was clearly a Muslam.

If so, not a good one. He doesn't pray 5 times a day to Mecca. But Obama wasn't good at anything. He wasn't even a very good socialist.

Look. This thread is "Politics and the Church." Not "Ohio and Harold." Maybe to try to keep it on topic, since you are way more inclined to take posts personal than I, you should start a thread called, "Brother Ohio and Brother Harold get personal"

[Ohio]

Wow so much misinformation, bro.

All the facts of history show us that the Democratic Party supports bigoted racism. Who violated Native Americans? Who fought for slavery? Who gave us Jim Crow? Who refuses to apologize for anti-semitism?

But the Media daily charges Trump and his constituents with it, and you buy into the scam. Case in point, just look at the two recent stories of Sandmann and Smollett.

Why don't you examine facts, rather than believe the smear campaign?

I posted many stories here, and you never responded to the facts, except with racist characterizations from the media.


Nothing personal here.

[ZNPaaneah]

I am reading a book by Tetlock. We are all familiar with his work, and Ohio and others on this forum have paraphrased it repeatedly, even if you are not familiar with the name. In 2006 he had a very influential book Expert Political Judgement: How Good is it? The results of that work are commonly paraphrased saying that these political forecasts by experts are as good as a monkey throwing darts. Here is an example, taken from Amazon.com, a reviewer of that book: "The definitive work on this question. . . . Tetlock systematically collected a vast number of individual forecasts about political and economic events, made by recognised experts over a period of more than 20 years. He showed that these forecasts were not very much better than making predictions by chance, and also that experts performed only slightly better than the average person who was casually informed about the subject in hand."---Gavyn Davies, Financial Times

The problem is that this is very misleading and misses the crucial point of his research which is that there are some people who are remarkably accurate forecasters. If you look at the top 10% they are reliable, accurate, and consistent. He has been working on the science of forecasting, and has shown excellent year on year improvement.

The process is very simple: create a model, forecast, evaluate the result. Based on evaluation make adjustments to the model, forecast, evaluate, etc. The more times you do this the more precise and reliable you get. This is why weather forecasts have improved so much, this is the process they follow. This is also why the pundits who complain about climate change models being inaccurate are morons. This is the process you follow. Every time you are "inaccurate" you are learning how to weigh each factor, how much more data you need, and a thousand other ways to improve the forecast. It is a process. The issue is not if the model can perfectly predict the outcome, but can it predict it more accurately than the previous model. As long as we improve from one iteration to the next we will get to that very accurate model eventually.

In science we do that, but apparently no one is measuring and grading the accuracy of political pundits. No one is holding them to account. There is no rating system for their reliability. So whereas a car is rated and compared and the results are available for all to see, no one holds these pundits accountable. That is the service that needs to take place.

What Tetlock did was encourage more than a thousand people to participate in making political forecasts each day, 9am EST. Then they would grade them. They would take the 100 or 200 burning questions of the day, and they would try to keep the forecasts between 1 month and 5 years, but mainly in the 1 month to 18 month range.

It seems to me that we could create a "good housekeeping seal of approval" for pundits. Make them do this for 1 year, grade them, and only those who score at the "expert" level get the seal.

In addition there is a science to how they go about preparing these forecasts, so there could be a graduate degree in this. For example, someone with an undergraduate degree in Economics might do a graduate degree in forecasting.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am reading a book by Tetlock. We are all familiar with his work, and Ohio and others on this forum have paraphrased it repeatedly, even if you are not familiar with the name. In 2006 he had a very influential book Expert Political Judgement: How Good is it?

Firstly, the is talk about political forecasts, whereas I have been addressing media bias, which can only be resolved by looking at the facts. It would also help if MSM owned their reporting. Perhaps these Sandmann lawsuits will help.

Secondly, weather forecasting has never been the issue. Climate forecasting is, but on the other thread. Here my issues are two-fold. One is forecasting, and the other is the causes behind the climate change.

[Ohio]

This is what happens when Socialists are elected.

Experts: NYC Could Go Bankrupt for First Time in 40 Years

The economy is booming, unemployment is down, welfare and food stamps are down, but DiBlasio spending has outpaced all of the savings. Yet they disingenuously blame Trump for SALT deductions. Obviously the Socialist's plans to force all the Billionaires to pay for their New Green Deal is not working out very well.

AOC's plans can't even work in the richest city on earth! The city with the most trains! How are they going to work anywhere else?

If NYC had any conservatives, they would be marching in the streets for AOC's impeachment. How about "NYC Lives Matter." Or "Occupy Main Street." Instead of AntiFa, we need "AntiSo," Anti-Socialists.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Wow so much misinformation, bro.

All the facts of history show us that the Democratic Party supports bigoted racism. Who violated Native Americans? Who fought for slavery? Who gave us Jim Crow? Who refuses to apologize for anti-semitism?

But both parties have morphed. The pubbies are no longer what they use to be. And the demmies have changed too ... but are still just a bunch of fups.

To be honest, both parties are tag-teaming us. Cuz to both parties it's all about money.

[awareness]

Here's one that qualifies as Politics and the Church.

Sorry if I'm posting from a possible fake news site. But non- fake news sites have grown so narrow, it's impossible to get to all the news.

Here's one from Associated Press:

Bibi declares Israel to be a racist nation.

JERUSALEM (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel is the homeland “only of the Jewish people,”
Israel “is the national state, not of all its citizens, but only of the Jewish people.”

https://apnews.com/8251a4e5a4744d7bbd899d4f1a048a0b

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But both parties have morphed. The pubbies are no longer what they use to be. And the demmies have changed too ... but are still just a bunch of fups.

To be honest, both parties are tag-teaming us. Cuz to both parties it's all about money.

Trump don't even take a salary.

Except for cutting the debt, Trump has passed every single conservative, Republican check list.

The Democrats, however, have completely abandoned their original platform, except for doubling down on abortion. I have posted numerous articles about these changes, but obviously you only read that British tabloid.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Firstly, the is talk about political forecasts, whereas I have been addressing media bias, which can only be resolved by looking at the facts. It would also help if MSM owned their reporting. Perhaps these Sandmann lawsuits will help.

One thing he learned from a 21 year study with tens of thousand forecasts was that there is an inverse relationship between fame and accuracy.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Secondly, weather forecasting has never been the issue. Climate forecasting is, but on the other thread. Here my issues are two-fold. One is forecasting, and the other is the causes behind the climate change.

The correct way to judge a climate model is to compare the results with a "no change" forecast. If the model is more accurate than a "no change" forecast would have been then you have made an improvement. If you then can make some improvements on that first model with a second model you are now on a path that leads you to a really good model. It doesn't matter if the improvement seems minor.

In his research he discovered the forecasters fell into two groups (all were highly educated professionals) which he called "hedgehogs" and "foxes". This is based on the poem "foxes know many things but hedgehogs know one big thing". The hedgehogs were dominated by one big idea (climate change, supply side economics, Laffer curve, etc). All information they got would go to either supporting their theory or else would be discounted as insignificant. They often used words like "furthermore", "in addition to this", "moreover", etc. The foxes on the other hand know many things, they use terms like "but", "on the other hand", "however", etc. Hedgehogs not only do worse than guessing, but they do especially bad in questions that fall into their specialty. Also, most TV pundits are "hedgehogs" pushing their pet theory.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

but obviously you only read that British tabloid.

Ya got me. But I screwed up and posted something from the AP. My bad. Now let me go back and hang on Mail Online ... where I live and get all my news and information, only. Ya got me big time bro. Kudos.

[ZNPaaneah]

It looks like AOC and Ilhan Omar are putting themselves into the crosshairs, they will be seeing the same treatment that Trump has seen, let's see how they do.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It looks like AOC and Ilhan Omar are putting themselves into the crosshairs, they will be seeing the same treatment that Trump has seen, let's see how they do.

Crosshairs? Same treatment as Trump? Hardly!

They are now the stars on stage.

Omar is the voice of the anti-Jew and anti-Israel Democratic Party.

AOC is the voice of anti-Capitalism Democratic Socialist Party.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Crosshairs? Same treatment as Trump? Hardly!

They are now the stars on stage.

Omar is the voice of the anti-Jew and anti-Israel Democratic Party.

AOC is the voice of anti-Capitalism Democratic Socialist Party.

Trump had his moment in the sun, he was the star of the Republican primaries, there was a time when he dominated the air waves just like them.

However AOC has already having accusations flying concerning hypocrisy and corruption. Omar has already had censure vote which she narrowly dodged. We also can see a gearing up of Democrats to run against her. They are about to discover how short 2 years is.

AOC is going to own the rejection of Amazon and is being blamed by many Democrats in this state, including the governor. If NY goes into a recession you can be sure she doesn't get reelected.

AOC and Omar are going to learn about how important fund raising is. I imagine whoever runs against them will have no problem raising funds, whereas many who might have funded Omar and AOC may pull out. Also, since they will probably both see the toughest challenge in the primaries they cannot expect to get anything from the Democratic party.

Without friends (after insulting Obama I doubt Omar has too many allies even among the Democrats) likewise with AOC. So what committee will they be named to? In public the leaders of the party will be very supportive, behind the scenes they will be marginalized.

Pelosi has already made it clear she thinks their Green initiative is foolish. Bernie and Biden are going to want to silence AOC's extreme views and Omar's views. Being branded as Socialist and anti Jewish is not something Biden is going to want.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

It looks like AOC and Ilhan Omar are putting themselves into the crosshairs, they will be seeing the same treatment that Trump has seen, let's see how they do.

With AiPAC after them, it will get ugly. They'll be treated like they are Amalekites. They've got Rashida Tlaib in their crosshairs too.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Pelosi has already made it clear she thinks their Green initiative is foolish. Bernie and Biden are going to want to silence AOC's extreme views and Omar's views. Being branded as Socialist and anti Jewish is not something Biden is going to want.

There are some contradictions here.

Firstly, Bernie opened the door to Socialism in America. Obama and Hillary pushed forward socialist health care programs, but they were still privatized programs, at least publicly.

Bernie, AOC, Omar and nearly all the 2020 Presidential Candidates are embracing actual Socialism. Millennials now prefer Socialism to Capitalism by a majority, having been convinced of its superiority of Socialism and the evils of Capitalism. "Income Inequality" is the platform of the new Democrats, and Climate Change hysteria provides the catalyst. Most of the Democratic candidates are now fighting each other to move further left.

Secondly, many have been rightly saying that the biggest danger that the Jews and Israel now face are these Leftist Jews like Bernie Sanders. George Soros is a Jew who hates both Israel and the US. How can this be? Easy. I am a German, but I stand against Germany. No contradiction here, except for the misinformed. After my grandparents left Germany, they started two world wars. Today Germany is funding Russia and Iran, two of the world's worst geo-political threats.

So Bernie conveniently plays both sides. He is anti-semitic hiding behind his Jewish blood. Bernie hates Trump, Israel's biggest supporter.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump, Israel's biggest supporter.

That's easy for Trump. He's not a true Christian. And true Christians wouldn't support the Jesus killers.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

That's easy for Trump. He's not a true Christian. And true Christians wouldn't support the Jesus killers.

Trump is not a true Christian?

How would you know? How do we know you are?

And who is supporting "Jesus killers?" Are all Italians guilty, since they are "related" to Pilate?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Millennials now prefer Socialism to Capitalism by a majority, having been convinced of its superiority of Socialism and the evils of Capitalism.

You must be getting that from fake news. I know cuz it's on Mail Online :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vey-finds.html

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

You must be getting that from fake news. I know cuz it's on Mail Online :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vey-finds.html

And I would think that you would have a lot more sense than these millennials.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Chavez, etc. were all socialists, yet you support the same policies that brought these dictators into power. They all promised to end the evils of Capitalism, only to produce something far worse. There may still be income inequality with Capitalism, but at least there is income. With socialism, there is still inequality, yet no income.

It sure seems from your posts, that you are ready to accept anything, including socailism, as long as MSM is for it and Trump is gone. Careful what you wish for.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And I would think that you would have a lot more sense than these millennials.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro, Chavez, etc. were all socialists, yet you support the same policies that brought these dictators into power. They all promised to end the evils of Capitalism, only to produce something far worse. There may still be income inequality with Capitalism, but at least there is income. With socialism, there is still inequality, yet no income.

It sure seems from your posts, that you are ready to accept anything, including socailism, as long as MSM is for it and Trump is gone. Careful what you wish for.

First of all, I do have more sense.

But this subject is complicated. America is a democracy. So if the millennials vote in a type of socialism there's nothing we can do about it if they have majority.

I don't know about all of them, but I don't think the socialism being banter about by millennials these days is a orthodox Marxism, nor a Stalin, USSR, type of socialism. I think they're thinking of a Canada type, or British type, or the type found in the other various democratic socialism's, or a Social Democracy. (you can google both to learn more about these types of socialism).

Howbeit, the label socialism has become the bugaboo of the Right. It's their big scary bogeyman, to knock down entirely these ones espousing socialism. Apparently they aren't scaring the millennials.

For example, this morning I picked up a article on Drudge Report (is that a fake news site, I can't keep up with which is which any more?) that pointed out a Devin Nunes tweet, where while at a California restaurant , when ordering a drink, was asked if he wanted a plastic straw.

He busted out with the "Straw Police" and knocked socialism. However it was quickly pointed out that his family enjoys government substitutes for their farmland ; which is way more socialism then control of the use of plastic straws. Proving ... In the end, Nunes turned out to look like such an idiot that all the Mojo was drained out of his attack on socialism. He's a hypocrite.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There are some contradictions here.

Firstly, Bernie opened the door to Socialism in America. Obama and Hillary pushed forward socialist health care programs, but they were still privatized programs, at least publicly.

Bernie, AOC, Omar and nearly all the 2020 Presidential Candidates are embracing actual Socialism. Millennials now prefer Socialism to Capitalism by a majority, having been convinced of its superiority of Socialism and the evils of Capitalism. "Income Inequality" is the platform of the new Democrats, and Climate Change hysteria provides the catalyst. Most of the Democratic candidates are now fighting each other to move further left.

Secondly, many have been rightly saying that the biggest danger that the Jews and Israel now face are these Leftist Jews like Bernie Sanders. George Soros is a Jew who hates both Israel and the US. How can this be? Easy. I am a German, but I stand against Germany. No contradiction here, except for the misinformed. After my grandparents left Germany, they started two world wars. Today Germany is funding Russia and Iran, two of the world's worst geo-political threats.

So Bernie conveniently plays both sides. He is anti-semitic hiding behind his Jewish blood. Bernie hates Trump, Israel's biggest supporter.

I didn't say Bernie wouldn't want to be labeled socialist, or anti Israel. I said Biden wouldn't want to be labeled Socialist, and the Democratic party doesn't want to be labeled anti semitic.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't know about all of them, but I don't think the socialism being banter about by millennials these days is a orthodox Marxism, nor a Stalin, USSR, type of socialism. I think they're thinking of a Canada type, or British type, or the type found in the other various democratic socialism's, or a Social Democracy. (you can google both to learn more about these types of socialism).

Howbeit, the label socialism has become the bugaboo of the Right. It's their big scary bogeyman, to knock down entirely these ones espousing socialism. Apparently they aren't scaring the millennials.

I agree. Marx brand of communism was an economic policy, whereas the "socialism" policies I support are about human rights and social issues.

I support public school -- that is socialism but it works very well with Capitalism and has been shown to improve the standard of living and the quality of workers.

I support the fire department and police department -- again two socialist policies that we expect everyone to get regardless of whether or not they pay for it.

I would support a universal healthcare -- another key socialist policy.

You cannot simply factor in dollars and cents, you also have to ask if society has an inherent interest in this. It is in societies interest that we all have a police force, fire department, school, and medical care regardless of income.

We used to have a capitalist system for the fire department, if you didn't pay for it they didn't put your fire out. But then the fire would spread and people who had paid would also have their houses burn down, so we realized it is in everyone's best interest to put out all fires, regardless of whether it is a wealthy person or a crack house. The same principle applies to health care.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Trump is not a true Christian?

How would you know?

Because he's on video saying he doesn't need God.

Originally Posted by Ohio

And who is supporting "Jesus killers?" Are all Italians guilty, since they are "related" to Pilate?

Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Because he's on video saying he doesn't need God.

Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

It's better to repent and believe at the end of life, than to turn away from the faith at the end of life. (Ezekiel 18.21-32)

At least Trump now respects the Bible, you however seem to question everything about it.

The children of the Pharisees have been dead for thousands of years. It's down right despicable to call the Jews "Jesus killers" in the 21st Century.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The children of the Pharisees have been dead for thousands of years. It's down right despicable to call the Jews "Jesus killers" in the 21st Century.

First. Christians have been questioning the Bible since its inception.

Second. Right on bro Ohio. We can't apply 21st century situations, needs, life, et al, to 2 and 3 thousand yrs ago.

So God giving the promised land to the Israelites during the bronze age shouldn't apply in the 20/21st c.

Yet I've seen Bibi state that God gave them the land in the Bible.

So your principle -- the Pharisees -- supports my position about the state of Israel today.

And I didn't invent the term 'Jesus killers.' It's been used against the Jews for millennia ... by Christians, so called.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

First. Christians have been questioning the Bible since its inception.

Second. Right on bro Ohio. We can't apply 21st century situations, needs, life, et al, to 2 and 3 thousand yrs ago.

So God giving the promised land to the Israelites during the bronze age shouldn't apply in the 20/21st c.

Yet I've seen Bibi state that God gave them the land in the Bible.

So your principle -- the Pharisees -- supports my position about the state of Israel today.

And I didn't invent the term 'Jesus killers.' It's been used against the Jews for millennia ... by Christians, so called.

There's a world (and a universe, including the Heavens) of difference between calling my Jewish neighbors "Jesus killers," and believing God's promises to Abraham concerning the land of Israel. The former is bigoted spite, the latter is healthy faith in God's promises.

[Ohio]

For those who only know the accepted spiel coming from the MSM, this article will be glossed over as speculation, but for those familiar with the Deep State coverup of Uranium One, coupled with the backroom story behind the Muller investigation based on the Steele Dossier, this analysis is incredible ...


The Trump Dossier and the Poisoning of Sergei Skripal

.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

There's a world (and a universe, including the Heavens) of difference between calling my Jewish neighbors "Jesus killers," and believing God's promises to Abraham concerning the land of Israel. The former is bigoted spite, the latter is healthy faith in God's promises.

Yes it's a pejorative and disparaging term.

But I was using it to point out why Christians shouldn't support the modern day state of Israel.

I mean, why support Israel, Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus' death rent the veil in the Temple. So wanting it back is an insult to his death.

Plus Jesus made it plain that Jerusalem was no longer important when he said :

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes it's a pejorative and disparaging term.

But I was using it to point out why Christians shouldn't support the modern day state of Israel.

I mean, why support Israel, Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus' death rent the veil in the Temple. So wanting it back is an insult to his death.

Plus Jesus made it plain that Jerusalem was no longer important when he said :

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Your logic is full of holes. You are using a verse in the Bible to support your assertion, not because the verse tells us to curse Israel, but because a crowd of people cried "His blood be upon us and our children". Yet this ignores the many, many verses where God promises that "those that Bless Israel will be blessed and those that curse Israel will be cursed". It also ignores the fact that this portion is part of both our Old Covenant and New Covenant. It also ignores the fact that these covenants were made with Abraham and David and cannot be broken, and that those of us in the NT have been blessed with believing Abraham and Jesus is the greater David.

Now both the NT and OT are clear that Abraham had children according to the Flesh, but that does not negate the covenant.

Also, our covenant with God is still in effect, otherwise how could He "bless us with every spiritual blessing"? So your assertion that it is foolish to apply verses that are 2,000 years old is plainly idiotic. That is the covenant we have with God sealed and enacted with the Lord's blood.

Finally, the blessings of the covenant are clearly relevant to "politics and the church". since one of the blessings is that God would bless all the nations through us.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes it's a pejorative and disparaging term.

But I was using it to point out why Christians shouldn't support the modern day state of Israel.

I mean, why support Israel, Jerusalem, and the rebuilding of the Temple when Jesus' death rent the veil in the Temple. So wanting it back is an insult to his death.

Plus Jesus made it plain that Jerusalem was no longer important when he said :

Sorry bro, but your Bible knowledge is really distorted. Perhaps you should give up on Bart Ehrman and the lost book of Eli, and read some better quality stuff. Even Nee and Lee are better than the books you read.

And Apostle Paul has something to say to certain arrogant Gentiles, "Israel was broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Don't be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you." (Romans 11.20-21)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sorry bro, but your Bible knowledge is really distorted. Perhaps you should give up on Bart Ehrman and the lost book of Eli, and read some better quality stuff. Even Nee and Lee are better than the books you read.

And Apostle Paul has something to say to certain arrogant Gentiles, "Israel was broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Don't be high-minded, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you." (Romans 11.20-21)

Oh! Oh! Oh! A throw back to Kirk Fraser style of communication.

I guess you're telling me to go listen to a good old fashion Fire and Brimstone sermon, like when I was a kid.

And I haven't read Ehrman in a couple of years. I'm reading David F. Strauss right now, from the middle 18th c. : The Life of Jesus, Critically Examined. It was cheap. Only 99 cents for Kindle

[Ohio]

This was their proof that Trump is a racist? This was all the Media Had? Even I was fooled by all the reporting into thinking that Trump said some of those Nazi protesters were "good people."

CNN Links to Own 2017 Report Disproving Charlottesville Hoax; ‘Very Fine People’ Referred to Statue

Talk about sleazy reporting at CNN . . .

"CNN failed to correct, retract, or apologize for its repeated false reports in recent weeks that President Donald Trump had referred to neo-Nazis as “very fine people” in his remarks about the Charlottesville, Virginia, riot in 2017.

But on Tuesday, CNN linked to its own report at the time that reported, accurately, that Trump had used “very fine people” to refer to protesters for and against the removal of a historic statue, not to neo-Nazis."

Based on this one false CNN report, probably 40% of the country is convinced that Trump is racist.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Oh! Oh! Oh! A throw back to Kirk Fraser style of communication.

I guess you're telling me to go listen to a good old fashion Fire and Brimstome sermon, like when I was a kid.

And I haven't read Ehrman in a couple of years. I'm reading David F. Strauss right now, from the middle 18th c. : The Life of Jesus, Critically Examined. It was cheap. Only 99 cents for Kindle

The only thing that's "cheap" are the cheap shots you continually post.

I posted scripture. You exhibit the exact same arrogance towards Israel that Paul addressed in Romans 11.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The only thing that's "cheap" are the cheap shots you continually post.

Not cheap. Free.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This was their proof that Trump is a racist? This was all the Media Had? Even I was fooled by all the reporting into thinking that Trump said some of those Nazi protesters were "good people."

CNN Links to Own 2017 Report Disproving Charlottesville Hoax; ‘Very Fine People’ Referred to Statue

Talk about sleazy reporting at CNN . . .

"CNN failed to correct, retract, or apologize for its repeated false reports in recent weeks that President Donald Trump had referred to neo-Nazis as “very fine people” in his remarks about the Charlottesville, Virginia, riot in 2017.

But on Tuesday, CNN linked to its own report at the time that reported, accurately, that Trump had used “very fine people” to refer to protesters for and against the removal of a historic statue, not to neo-Nazis."

Based on this one false CNN report, probably 40% of the country is convinced that Trump is racist.

Some people may have been confused but I always had the impression he was referring to the protesters and not to nazis. "Either side" seemed pretty obvious.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Some people may have been confused but I always had the impression he was referring to the protesters and not to nazis. "Either side" seemed pretty obvious.

Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.

I don't care if he's a racist. My dad was an unapologetic racist. I care that he's a pathological liar.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't care if he's a racist. My dad was an unapologetic racist. I care that he's a pathological liar.

No you don't.

You could care less what he says. You hate him and only want to brand him. Simple as that. Let the facts and the evidence be damned, he is a "pathological liar."

It goes along with your other goals in life, to prove that all Christians, including your own parents, are evil "what-what's," that the Bible is farcical, and that God Himself is untrustworthy.

Be honest now. That's what you have been telling us for years.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.

In my opinion he is a fool, though he might argue that what appears to be foolish to us is his "genius".

When he said that the illegal immigrants coming into the US were rapists, drug dealers, etc. Well that could have been said in a much better way. It is not unreasonable for people to take offense at the way he said it and consider it a slap in the face to our neighbors to the south. When he called many of these countries where the immigrants were coming from "s***hole" countries, that also could be construed as racist. Sometimes it is hard to draw the line between arrogance and racism. When he insulted McCain, when he insulted women (Bush tapes), when he insulted a gold star family -- all of those insults open the door for people to insult him in return.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No you don't.

You could care less what he says.

Not true. I keep up with what Trump says, tweets, or videos', every day. How do you think I know he's a pathological liar? I hear that people like Trump because he's all out in the open and upfront about everything. And he is. He's not a bad performer. He puts on quite a show. He's undeniably entertaining. Loads of fun. Late Night comedians are having a heyday. He's makes it easy for them. Ask Jay Leno.

Originally Posted by Ohio

You hate him and only want to brand him.

I've already admitted that I've never liked the guy. And, Trump needs branding? Are you blind?

Originally Posted by Ohio

Simple as that. Let the facts and the evidence be damned, he is a "pathological liar."

The facts and evidence is found with my eyes and ears. Should I believe them, or your "facts and evidence?" Secondhand evidence should always be questioned.

Originally Posted by Ohio

It goes along with your other goals in life, to prove that all Christians, including your own parents, are evil "what-what's," that the Bible is farcical, and that God Himself is untrustworthy.

Well I admit with all my years with God, He hasn't always come thru. And I certainly can't predict Him. He's pretty slippery if you ask me. But He's hasn't smashed me like the little bug I/we are.

AND ... I must give thanks 100 times a day or more to Him. And tell Him I love Him like breathing an equal many times or more a day. I love my invisible friend. Don't you?

And I don't think all Christians are evil. That's absurd. To me, all Christians are every bit as human as every body else. Like one of my taglines stated in the past : "It's not God I have a problem with, it's His fan club." And so I do have problems with Christians that go around thinking they are more special than all other humans. Now that, is unquestionably absurd, IMHO.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then you are the the first. Good for you.

I have heard numerous talking heads cite Charlottesville to "prove" that Trump is racist.

Remember the Witness Lee quote "people change"?
Well yes people do change. Suppose he was a racist at one time, does that mean President Trump is a racist now and incapable of change?
People to change. If the have love and compassion in their heart, there's always change.
In my early 20's I admit I was a homophobe. Now at 51 I haven't been for a long time. People change.
Yet we should know from our LC experiences the tendency of "label me label you". So and so isn't one with the brothers. By default so and so must be an oppose. Rather the argument that's not being addressed is validation why I should be one with the brothers.
Similar, where's the validation President Trump colluded? I may think he's not likeable, but that's no reason I would support the anti-Trump narrative.
Rather the 24/7 anti-Trump narrative has driven my indifference towards Trump to one supporting his agenda as president.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

In my opinion he is a fool, though he might argue that what appears to be foolish to us is his "genius".

Another phrase is "crazy like a fox". I used to think what a buffoon for his excessive use of twitter.
I've come to think it's his way of sending a message to a certain person or certain persons, but not intended for consumption by everyone. It's also a way to get a message out that bypasses the MSM.
When he's expressive negative comments about a person (Jerrod Nadler, John McCain or someone else), have you considered they might have a contentious history? We're caught as spectators in personality conflicts. It's not a movie and it's not a game.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

Remember the Witness Lee quote "people change"?
Well yes people do change. Suppose he was a racist at one time, does that mean President Trump is a racist now and incapable of change?
People to change. If the have love and compassion in their heart, there's always change.
In my early 20's I admit I was a homophobe. Now at 51 I haven't been for a long time. People change.
Yet we should know from our LC experiences the tendency of "label me label you". So and so isn't one with the brothers. By default so and so must be an oppose. Rather the argument that's not being addressed is validation why I should be one with the brothers.
Similar, where's the validation President Trump colluded? I may think he's not likeable, but that's no reason I would support the anti-Trump narrative.
Rather the 24/7 anti-Trump narrative has driven my indifference towards Trump to one supporting his agenda as president.

Nobody called Trump a racist until he ran for President as a conservative.

Since then, if you listen carefully to the CNN propaganda machine, we have learned that he "hates" everyone.

And all the evidence I have seen about Russian collusion showed me that Clinton, Lynch, Comey, McCabe, Yates, Rosenstein, Strzok, Page, Baker, et al should be in jail.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

Another phrase is "crazy like a fox". I used to think what a buffoon for his excessive use of twitter.
I've come to think it's his way of sending a message to a certain person or certain persons, but not intended for consumption by everyone. It's also a way to get a message out that bypasses the MSM.
When he's expressive negative comments about a person (Jerrod Nadler, John McCain or someone else), have you considered they might have a contentious history? We're caught as spectators in personality conflicts. It's not a movie and it's not a game.

But if this is correct then it proves he is a fool. Why would you conduct this campaign in the open for the whole world to see, comment on, late night comics use it for fodder, all the while trying to also maintain the dignity you need as President of the US. You might still be reelected, but you are going to divide the country, feeding a divisive narrative. If it isn't good for the country it isn't good for your presidency. The principle is "as much as is possible be at peace with all people". To my observation Trump arrogantly ignores this principle, though he seems to have improved since his campaign.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Nobody called Trump a racist until he ran for President as a conservative.

Since then, if you listen carefully to the CNN propaganda machine, we have learned that he "hates" everyone.

Here are some of his tweets:

I feel sorry for Rosie 's new partner in love whose parents are devastated at the thought of their daughter being with @Rosie--a true loser.

You must admit that Bryant Gumbel is one of the dumbest racists around - an arrogant dope with no talent. Failed at CBS etc-why still on TV?

@michellemalkin You were born stupid!

There is no longer a Bernie Sanders "political revolution." He is turning out to be a weak and somewhat pathetic figure,wants it all to end!

A dishonest slob of a reporter, who doesn't understand my sarcasm when talking about him or his wife, wrote a foolish & boring Trump "hit"

I can't resist hitting lightweight @DannyZuker verbally when he starts up because he is just.so pathetic and easy (stupid)!

I have been saying for weeks for President Obama to stop the flights from West Africa. So simple, but he refused. A TOTAL incompetent!

Sleep eyes @ChuckTodd is killing Meet The Press. Isn't he pathetic? Love watching him fail!

.@FrankLuntz, your so-called "focus groups" are a total joke. Don't come to my office looking for business again. You are a clown!

When Mitt Romney asked me for my endorsement last time around, he was so awkward and goofy that we all should have known he could not win!

Just heard that crazy and very dumb @morningmika had a mental breakdown while talking about me on the low ratings @Morning_Joe. Joe a mess!

The idea that it requires a propaganda machine to think this guy hates everyone is ridiculous. Read his own tweets. He is an insulting, arrogant, abusive person.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The idea that it requires a propaganda machine to think this guy hates everyone is ridiculous. Read his own tweets. He is an insulting, arrogant, abusive person.

After watching hundreds, more like thousands of lies, fabrications, exaggerations, half-truths, and distortions about Trump from the propaganda smear machines of the Democratic Party, I see this twitter nonsense as "foxhole banter" for a President under siege from within and without. He's a counter-puncher. You kick him below the belt, and you'll get it too.

The Deep State coup d'etat was in the works in mid 2016, called by his FBI / DOJ enemies as an "Insurance Policy," known to them as Code Name Crossfire Hurricane.

The more Trump is hated, the more I support him.

How can you believe these bozos when now they blame the New Zealand mosque massacre on him too? For 16 years all the world's ills were blamed on Bush. Now they got a new "punching bag." Why do you even pay attention to this nonsense?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Read his own tweets. He is an insulting, arrogant, abusive person.

I see this like the New England Patriots locker room. Years ago it used to be that women were never allowed in. Now they have to allow female reporters in too. It gets nasty and rough at times in there, but that's what it takes for Coach Belichick to produce a winner.

"Women" and "wimps" want into the locker room, but then they whine about what "bad things" they hear from the coach.

The American people had 8 years of smooth and flattering tickle the ears, "hope and change," yet in reality it was all deceitful teleprompter-driven stage talk. They knew who they were getting with Trump, yet they still voted him in, warts and all.

You Trump haters had nice guy, "Saint George Bush" for 8 years, and you had nothing good to say about him either. That's why Trump's supporters pay no attention to your endless "noise." Sorry if you can't figure that out.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The more Trump is hated, the more I support him.

Ok, Mr. Video has another. Actually I made this quite a while ago.

The Trumps Hater's Final Words

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dQ...cbi1nhXs2L5VZD

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How can you believe these bozos when now they blame the New Zealand mosque massacre on him too? For 16 years all the world's ills were blamed on Bush. Now they got a new "punching bag." Why do you even pay attention to this nonsense?

I didn't quote "these bozos", I quoted Trump. I hadn't even heard anything about anyone blaming Trump for NZ. Many of the tweets I quoted were from 2016, 2015, 2014 and 2013. They predated any attacks on him. My point is that he made enemies, he attacked them publicly, if you live like that you should expect payback.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You Trump haters had nice guy, "Saint George Bush" for 8 years, and you had nothing good to say about him either. That's why Trump's supporters pay no attention to your endless "noise." Sorry if you can't figure that out.

I am not a Trump hater. Not being a Trump cheerleader doesn't make me a hater. I am simply telling the truth, he is an insulting person, he is abusive, and he is arrogant. This conclusion is based solely on his own words.

Saying this doesn't in any way say that previous presidents weren't liars, cheats, and disingenuous. This is not a binary choice, Trump being arrogant doesn't require that Obama be a saint and vice versa.

"As for women and wimps in the locker room" we are seeing that with the Democrats (Pelosi, AOC, Omar and Clinton). They are disintegrating right in front of our eyes. AOC's blunder with Amazon.com, trying to be tough and instead got body slammed. I would be stunned if she lasts more than 1 term. Likewise with Omar, giving the Democrats a major black eye that will not go away. And how wimpy is Pelosi. Saying that "Trump is not worth impeaching". That is the total cowards way out. She wants to claim he has done things worthy of impeachment but somehow it isn't worth impeaching him. Do your job. If he has done things worthy of impeachment, then your job is to impeach him. If on the other hand the entire thing has been a political witch hunt and you have been exposed, your lies and cowardice are simply continuing to dig the hole you will be buried in.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I am not a Trump hater. Not being a Trump cheerleader doesn't make me a hater. I am simply telling the truth, he is an insulting person, he is abusive, and he is arrogant.

The media has little to report about, because generally we live in peaceful and prosperous times. So for lack of news they report on Trump and this and that"investigation" which the Democrats have dreamed up, ad nauseum.

If we had a crisis, Trump would show himself a leader and the attention would be taken off him, and everyone would have perspective again.

If the worst thing we have to worry about is that Trump is insulting and arrogant, and that he might build a border wall, we are doing pretty well. I'll take that.

News junkies need to find something else to do. The media have nothing to talk about and are making Trump bigger and a bigger problem than he actually is.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The media has little to report about, because generally we live in peaceful and prosperous times. So for lack of news they report on Trump and this and that"investigation" which the Democrats have dreamed up, ad nauseum.

If we had a crisis, Trump would show himself a leader and the attention would be taken off him, and everyone would have perspective again.

If the worst thing we have to worry about is that Trump is insulting and arrogant, and that he might build a border wall, we are doing pretty well. I'll take that.

News junkies need to find something else to do. The media have nothing to talk about and are making Trump bigger and a bigger problem than he actually is.

Hey ... Jonathan Cahn is preaching and teaching how Trump was prophesied in the Bible to be president. According to Cahn, he's a modern day King Jehu.

And then there's all the claims that he's King Cyrus.

Methinks that Christians are making him bigger than the media does. They're making him out to be a Bible hero. It doesn't get any bigger than that.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hey ... Jonathan Cahn is preaching and teaching how Trump was prophesied in the Bible to be president. According to Cahn, he's a modern day King Jehu.

And then there's all the claims that he's King Cyrus.

Methinks that Christians are making him bigger than the media does. They're making him out to be a Bible hero. It doesn't get any bigger than that.

Well, one Christian is anyway... Two counting you.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Well, one Christian is anyway... Two counting you.

No brother. It's all over the Christian Prophecy sites. Look it up. They believe God is controlling history, and it's further development.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by awareness

No brother. It's all over the Christian Prophecy sites. Look it up. They believe God is controlling history, and it's further development.

You said they were making making him bigger than the media does. I don't think that is possible. I don't visit "Christian prophecy sites," and don't care to. But I doubt their influence can match that of the media. That was the point of my quip.

Have a good weekend, Harold!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Igzy

You said they were making making him bigger than the media does. I don't think that is possible. I don't visit "Christian prophecy sites," and don't care to. But I doubt their influence can match that of the media. That was the point of my quip.

Have a good weekend, Harold!

Point taken. You too.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Well, one Christian is anyway... Two counting you.

Yeah Awareness, stop being a megaphone for these right wing nut jobs.