What is the boundary of the Local Church?

[Steel]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But then, beginning in early 1974, Lee changed.

Why do you think this happened, Ohio?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Steel

Why do you think this happened, Ohio?

We can only answer what happened and what was taught, and whether it was according to God's word.

You have to ask WL the why.

[Steel]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We can only answer what happened and what was taught, and whether it was according to God's word.

That's a wonderfully limited response... I appreciate your effort in being limited in it.

Originally Posted by Ohio

You have to ask WL the why.

He's dead.

But praise the Lord that we can all, if we choose to, before the living God... Enjoy the writings that come from his ministry.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Steel

But praise the Lord that we can all, if we choose to, before the living God... Enjoy the writings that come from his ministry.

OK, enjoy, but ...

Don't choke on the leaven of pride, bro.

[Steel]

Originally Posted by Ohio

OK, enjoy, but ...

Don't choke on the leaven of pride, bro.

I try... But know even if I do... The Lord cares enough for me that He won't allow me to lose my salvation even if my choking kills me.

My brother... I didn't come here today to speak the things I did below... But as I started reading the comments here I felt a compelling to write what I have below... And as I was doing this I was simply trying to do the best I can before the Lord... And if there is pride, my hope is that He will save me out of it.

And know this... The things I speak here, I speak anywhere... Because I believe the Lord has given these things to me to speak... And I want to be one with and obdient to Him.

If my speaking offends you, take it before the Lord... If my speaking uplifts you, take it before the Lord.

[Cal]

Oneness is a laudable value and goal.

But the way the LCM tries to achieve it has not worked and has actually produced the opposite results.

When I hear LCMers talking about oneness, it sounds like when the Pharisees talked about Moses. Technically they had a point, but only technically. Otherwise they were off the reservation.

In the meantime, I see oneness growing in other ways.

God is going to cause us all to "arrive at the unity of the faith." Let's trust him and love each other.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

When I hear LCMers talking about oneness, it sounds like when the Pharisees talked about Moses. Technically they had a point, but only technically. Otherwise they were off the reservation.

Yes, let's consider 4 ways they were outside of the boundary:

1. Arrogance. Those of us who were there know that we considered ourselves "elite" Christians, those who were absolute, not in dead Christianity, etc. You cannot enter the kingdom unless you become as a small child. Clearly a boundary.

2. We were not sensitive to saints that were getting offended. Instead we were told from elders and Witness Lee that they were "poisoned" and that you should not look "in the garbage can". In Houston I heard that every kitchen has a garbage can, who would come and visit someone and then go and look in their garbage can. The point was to not have any contact with those who left nor should we ask about them. If you offend one of these little ones it would be better if you tied a heavy stone around your neck and were flushed out of the city into the middle of the ocean. Clearly a boundary you cannot cross.

3. We were not permitted to seek out the lost sheep. We were warned to stay away from certain ones, don't see them, etc. So when someone did get offended no one was permitted to talk to them. This is directly contrary to what the Lord spoke in Matt 18. Leaving the flock to seek out the lost sheep is not outside the boundary, instead it is a defining characteristic.

4. There was no mercy. This forum is very much like those saints described in Matt 18. They saw their fellow servant who had been shown mercy by His Lord go out and abuse his fellow servants, so we were offended by this and came and told the Lord. Mercy is very clearly the boundary. No one enters this city without the Lord showing them mercy, and likewise no one stays in the city unless they will likewise show others mercy.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Steel

If my speaking offends you, take it before the Lord... If my speaking uplifts you, take it before the Lord.

Brother Steel, unfortunately it is only the heartless and the bullies who speak this way. This is how they "wash their hands" of any responsibility. Either you learned these bad habits within the LC, or you joined them because of similarity.

While I was inside the LC fold, all of the offenses flowed "down hill" in their well established hierarchy. Members had no recourse but to "take it before the Lord," because if one opened his mouth, it only got worse for him. Having left the LC structures, I then realized that I have a voice on behalf of others.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Brother Steel, unfortunately it is only the heartless and the bullies who speak this way. This is how they "wash their hands" of any responsibility. Either you learned these bad habits within the LC, or you joined them because of similarity.

While I was inside the LC fold, all of the offenses flowed "down hill" in their well established hierarchy. Members had no recourse but to "take it before the Lord," because if one opened his mouth, it only got worse for him. Having left the LC structures, I then realized that I have a voice on behalf of others.

Great point. I also remember being taught that this was part of taking the cross and if something offended you then that was an expression of the flesh, self, old man, etc. But it is completely different in Matt 18, the onus on an offense is on those that stumble the little ones, not on the little ones for being "in their mind".