Arthur M. Casci Testimony

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Amcasci

Enforce I get all wrapped up I thisbusness again, I want tosay that I have fond memories of many people: Gao Tomothy Liang, Pkiland Ellen Trimphour who nursed me to health when very sick, Tony Lyons, Tom McNaughton, Jim McNaughton. Thankfully did locate Phil Comfort and was able to talk to hin on the phone a few years back. If you can help me locate the McNaughtons I would be grateful and any others from Akron/Cleveland in 71-73. It brings me to tears when I think of them andi look forward to the grand reunion at the marriage supper of the lamb in his kingdom which has no end.

Do you recall Don and Carol O'Born, Harry Ahlers...but they migrated to Detroit from Akron in the summer of 1971?

[Amcasci]

Originally Posted by Dave

Do you recall Don and Carol O'Born, Harry Ahlers...but they migrated to Detroit from Akron in the summer of 1971?

Yes I remember O'Borns. Not sure about Harry Ahlers. O'Borns had a daughter named Crystal.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Amcasci

Yes I remember O'Borns. Not sure about Harry Ahlers. O'Borns had a daughter named Crystal.

All left the local church (Ahlers RIP), even the most committed faithful co-workers with Lee -- John Ingalls, Bill Mallon, Max Rapoport (sp-sic) ... all out ... all no longer under the spell of a personalty cult.

Proving, we tend to come to our senses sooner or later.

[Amcasci]

Thanks be to God!

[aron]

Splendid Church Life! ~ Hymn 1237

1 Splendid church life! His green garden! He has
brought us, praise the Lord,
To experience the Christ Who's growing here!
He is full of rich enjoyment to His saints in one
accord;
He is new and fresh, available and dear.

Chorus: I'm so happy in this lovely place,
In the garden growing in His grace!
There is no finer pleasure than to eat the
living tree
And to get the living water into me.

We told each other that Christ was "new and fresh" in the LCs. That is why the LCs were so attractive to so many young seeking people in the era of 1965 -1975. Christianity, i.e. everything not the LC, was presumed to be old and stale. Conversely, if it was not old and stale, but wasn't under the "ministry of the age" then it was wild and useless to God. Only the proper church life could please God by carrying out His will. So we could ignore centuries of Christian convention, and even the Bible itself if it wasn't "new and fresh" enough! Only "God's current speaking" mattered!

In the LCs Christ was "new and fresh, available and dear": turns out that Christ was so new and fresh that He no longer cared for the poor, the sick, and the hungry. "Don't waste your time", we were told. Instead, this "new and fresh" Christ was only interested in "good building material" for His Body.

And so forth. Turns out that "New and fresh" was really the same stale old package with a "new and fresh" sticker prominently emblazoned on it. It was just cheap marketing. Effective, in a way that would make PT Barnum proud, but false.

[Amcasci]

Originally Posted by aron

Splendid Church Life! ~ Hymn 1237
He is new and fresh, available and dear.

Give me Old and Stale. The old faith of the One Holy Christian Church and the stale bread of the body and blood of Christ in Holy communion.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

Splendid Church Life! ~ Hymn 1237
He is new and fresh, available and dear.

Originally Posted by Amcasci

Give me Old and Stale. The old faith of the One Holy Christian Church and the stale bread of the body and blood of Christ in Holy communion.

Yer a funny guy Arthur ...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

We told each other that Christ was "new and fresh" in the LCs. That is why the LCs were so attractive to so many young seeking people in the era of 1965 -1975. Christianity, i.e. everything not the LC, was presumed to be old and stale. Conversely, if it was not old and stale, but wasn't under the "ministry of the age" then it was wild and useless to God. Only the proper church life could please God by carrying out His will. So we could ignore centuries of Christian convention, and even the Bible itself if it wasn't "new and fresh" enough! Only "God's current speaking" mattered!

In the LCs Christ was "new and fresh, available and dear": turns out that Christ was so new and fresh that He no longer cared for the poor, the sick, and the hungry. "Don't waste your time", we were told. Instead, this "new and fresh" Christ was only interested in "good building material" for His Body.

And so forth. Turns out that "New and fresh" was really the same stale old package with a "new and fresh" sticker prominently emblazoned on it. It was just cheap marketing. Effective, in a way that would make PT Barnum proud, but false.

During my first contact with the church in Cleveland, the meeting was definitely "new and fresh," and Christ definitely was "available and dear," which was totally in contrast to the catholic church I grew up in. I saw lots of "the poor, the sick, and the hungry" pass thru our doors, and get cared for by the saints. There was an incredible diversity in the church there -- black, white, asian, rich, poor, brilliant, and simple minds -- all loving Jesus, the common denominator which brought them all together.

Things changed. For the worse.

What caused the deterioration? Not the personal problems of the members. It was demands made by totalitarian leaders from Anaheim and/or Cleveland upon local leaders. They went from servant leaders to controlling abusive rulers. This forum is filled with their stories. Many of which I have told over the years.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

During my first contact with the church in Cleveland, the meeting was definitely "new and fresh," and Christ definitely was "available and dear," which was totally in contrast to the catholic church I grew up in. I saw lots of "the poor, the sick, and the hungry" pass thru our doors, and get cared for by the saints. There was an incredible diversity in the church there -- black, white, asian, rich, poor, brilliant, and simple minds -- all loving Jesus, the common denominator which brought them all together.

Things changed. For the worse.

What caused the deterioration? Not the personal problems of the members. It was demands made by totalitarian leaders from Anaheim and/or Cleveland upon local leaders. They went from servant leaders to controlling abusive rulers. This forum is filled with their stories. Many of which I have told over the years.

I've shared on the deterioration which I observed, as well. WL arguing interminably with someone called the Bible Answer Man over the Holy Trinity. The 'Serving Ones' coming from Anaheim and declaring that we all needed to be vital. The FTTA trainer telling us, "Don't waste your time" with the poor. In Anaheim, the training attendees posing beside WL's chair on the podium, like it was a tourist attraction. The book Fementation of the Present Rebellion, full of shocking and offensive characterizations of "the rebels". Any pretense of charity, long suffering, and magnanimity had long since vanished under the strain of combat.

But where did this idea come from, that God needs to be new? When did God get old, anyway? We, on the other hand, certainly need to become new. We need to be born again, to enter the kingdom. We all know this. We have to be like little children, to see God, and we need to be renewed in the spirit of our mind. And we read where the One on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Fine, no problem conceptually, but where did the idea of a "new Christ" come in? Maybe we were just shouting too much and misapplied the pronouns, and WL wanting all things (including God) to be "new" let it slide. Or maybe he pushed it. But based on what?

Is there any basis for the "new and fresh" Christ being bandied about in our hymns? As compared to what, pray tell? Certainly we loved the idea. But where did this new and fresh Christ come from?