Video Recordings Of The 1989-1990 Elders' Meetings

[PriestlyScribe]

About a month ago I came to realize that right here in my home was an almost complete set of Video Tapes of the 1989 Elders Meetings. Back in 2020 Steve Isitt had sent me a hard-copy of the book "The Fermentation Of The Rebellion" which he had complained to me about at length - for years. Didn't take me long to realize this book was chock full of scorpions & snakes! Nasty, nasty stuff! But what to do about it?

Well one thing led to another and I began to realize that much of that book's deadly content may have been captured on these doggone video tapes. The big challenge for me was to resurrect one of the BETA machines from my media boneyard. Got one limping along well enough to confirm - yes these tapes cover the contents of that Fermentation book! But then that machine gave up the ghost. Somebody on Ebay had a beat up looking BETAMAX that they claimed was working, so I invested a couple hundred biden-bucks to get the fossilized machine here. Keeping my fingers crossed as it chugged through hours & hours & hours of BETA tape. We eventually got the project done with no casualties (gobbled tapes) Thank God! I do have additional Elders Meeting tapes from 1990 & later but they are on VHS which will be relatively easy to work with - whew.

So, as of this weekend, all but the last 8 hours of BETA video (December 1989) has been uploaded to a bit-chute channel created just for this purpose (LORDSRECOVERYARCHIVES). If anyone has a stomach to help me pull out additional key timestamps from these recordings it would be much appreciated. But I totally get it that most of you would rather rub sand in your eyes...

Anyway, here is a link to that gruesome collection as it stands right now:
https://www.bitchute.com/playlist/ZQK4S9rq3b8q/

Feel free to share these links far & wide, and, would somebody PLEASE download these to a hard drive in case something happens to me? In the weeks ahead I plan to work on getting the final 8 hours processed & uploaded to bitchute for your enjoyment and for La Palma's chagrin. I currently have those final 8 hours unlisted on one of my youtube channels. If anyone needs the links then please contact me.

Thanks... P.S.

[TLFisher]

Thank you for making available these vital items of history.
Something I have long thought was the case, the phrase "out with the old, in with the new" was also an innuendo to the eldership. From the two tapes I've seen many of the brothers speaking were 30-40 something in age except for Ball/Gruhler/Phillips.

[HERn]

Watched some of the video. Creeps me out! During the impassioned prayers several brothers were looking all around, furtively glancing over their shoulders, while yoda-like WL is rotating his head around looking with prayer folded hands near his face. Maybe I need to take the cross and watch some more? Hey, is this what Jesus meant by “taking up our cross”? Heard one dysfunctional wife tell her husband that basically she was a female dog and he should “just take the cross” whenever she pounded stakes in his heart. Or my brother the male pig that tells his wife he gets it whenever and however, just “take the cross”! Or the elders who tell Awareness to take their personality as his own and just “take the cross”, or the being blindeds telling Jane she led an elder to collapse emotionally “just take the cross”, or WL telling the dear saints that they were nothing but mooing cows “just take the cross”! Maybe it’s time for some of the blindeds and some of the elders to “just take the cross” and confess their sins to the little ones they have stumbled, abused, defrauded, swindled, confused, and caused the faith of some to be shipwrecked. But then if they did they might not get to sashay into meetings late and sit in the front three rows. You know they are seated by absoluteness to the ministry. Have you noticed there is a one-to-one inverse relationship between sensitivity of conscience of a brother and his absoluteness for the ministry? But, why do the blindeds and elders walk in late to conference meetings and sit in the first three or four rows? They did this at almost every conference meeting I attended. To those of you who still attend LC conferences do they still do this? Any elders or blendeds want to help me here?

[TLFisher]

I wonder....how absolute are they? Given WL didn't announce until towards the end of the conference their testimonies (what could they testify to?) would be circulated through the recovery.
Had they known this from the start, would the brothers had chosen their words differently?
Since this time in 1989, have any felt remorseful and regretted what they spoke?
HERn, ironically you mention the cross. Within the LSM/LC construct of "taking the cross", it is as if to say "I might offend you, but I won't apologize. Not ever. The onus is on you to take the cross. Not me."

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Terry

HERn, ironically you mention the cross. Within the LSM/LC construct of "taking the cross", it is as if to say "I might offend you, but I won't apologize. Not ever. The onus is on you to take the cross. Not me."

Great observation of how "take the cross" is often used. I was told this too. Rather than take the appropriate steps regarding an unrepentant saint, I was told to take the cross and forgive.....just be okay with the situation. The elders, generally speaking, don't have the backbone to stand against sin and stand up for righteousness......only the backbone to stand up for protection of the ministry.

Lots of very telling statements and proclamations made in these videos. Thanks P.S.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Terry

I wonder....how absolute are they? Given WL didn't announce until towards the end of the conference their testimonies (what could they testify to?) would be circulated through the recovery.
Had they known this from the start, would the brothers had chosen their words differently?
Since this time in 1989, have any felt remorseful and regretted what they spoke?
HERn, ironically you mention the cross. Within the LSM/LC construct of "taking the cross", it is as if to say "I might offend you, but I won't apologize. Not ever. The onus is on you to take the cross. Not me."

It also makes me wonder how many of these people are actually saved. Repentance for sin is a condition for salvation. They “cover the brothers”, “take the cross” and “call on the Lord”. They don’t preach the gospel. They run roughshod over the faithful and have abandoned-in-place their own children.

“By their fruit you shall know them.” Based on their fruits over a lifetime, are they even Christian?

Nell

[Sons to Glory!]

The Lord says to let the wheat and the tares grow until the harvest, and then it can be determined which was actually the weeds. Tares closely resemble wheat, especially at first, but later on it becomes more apparent - we don't always know one from the other. So is it possible some of these folks in the LC aren't actually born again? Sure. But how to tell? First Corinthians 12:3 says, "No man can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit." So what do we do with that?

If we had "magic glasses" and could see each one as God sees them, then we could tell whether they were His children or not. Personally, I consider that they are born-again, just far off in left field. Regenerated ones get into all kinds of things, and many for long periods of time, that don't seem to demonstrate much genuine fruit of the Spirit. Are they still born again? Sure . . . just not much current evidence that we can see.

[Covert]

I forgot the title of the video I watched but in this the video linked and uploaded by our awesome Priestly Scribe. Witness lee went on a little rant about how "unethical" and how "wrong" it was for some person he was complaining about printing interlinear bibles, I believe with the recovery version. Oh so when it comes to you witness lee, you can live in right and wrong and what is ethical and unethical? Oh witness, dont you hate those words, dont those words emphasized in ones life cause death? What happened Witness lee? Why was witness lee so distraught over recovery interlinear bibles. Why was he afraid of the greek being side by side of his recovery version? Another pecular insecurity perhaps founded by witness lee obsession of various sorts relating to maintaining his ministry. Oh how he just loathed the "puuuuuuureeeeeee worddddddddddddddddd".

What an absolute joke, but thank you so much for uploading essential content regarding the most disastrous storm the local churches love to talk about. Look at all those I should say "obsequious sycophants" (since g**n is intolerable to some), in the elders meetings just eating up witness lee lies. No accountability, no rebuke, no repentance, and no desire for the truth. Just a mountain of lies and sins that's gonna create an avalanche that will swallow them up on a downward spiral of destruction.

[OBW]

Too funny — and true.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

The Lord says to let the wheat and the tares grow until the harvest, and then it can be determined which was actually the weeds. Tares closely resemble wheat, especially at first, but later on it becomes more apparent - we don't always know one from the other. So is it possible some of these folks in the LC aren't actually born again? Sure. But how to tell? First Corinthians 12:3 says, "No man can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit." So what do we do with that?

If we had "magic glasses" and could see each one as God sees them, then we could tell whether they were His children or not. Personally, I consider that they are born-again, just far off in left field. Regenerated ones get into all kinds of things, and many for long periods of time, that don't seem to demonstrate much genuine fruit of the Spirit. Are they still born again? Sure . . . just not much current evidence that we can see.

And based on all that I read in the NT, it seems that in some places we should allow things to be what they are and leave the pruning, separating, etc., to God. But in other places, it appears that we are to make a judgment and therefore take a stand. And, like so many other things I point to, we need to understand the kinds of context for each kind of action to take (or not take).

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

And based on all that I read in the NT, it seems that in some places we should allow things to be what they are and leave the pruning, separating, etc., to God. But in other places, it appears that we are to make a judgment and therefore take a stand. And, like so many other things I point to, we need to understand the kinds of context for each kind of action to take (or not take).

Or we wait for His clear speaking before doing something (which will come through His word . . . and other sources He uses).

[OBW]

To me, the issues being discussed are not really what the parable of the tares is talking about. I think you are correct that it is referring to the general inability for us to determine whether someone is or is not a believer in Christ. We may think we know, but we really don't.

But the purpose of viewing these videos (or hearing the audio from them) is not to determine anyone's eternal status. It is to determine whether certain ones are properly understanding and preaching the word of truth and are righteously leading the flocks they have been entrusted with. And based on that determination, are they qualified to be deciding what is and is not sound teaching. And based on my reading of the calf that arose from the molten material that was the unholy fire of this elders meeting — The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion — I would argue that if Lee and his primary enablers were ever qualified, by that time they had lost their teaching license.

Not sure what to say about the lesser elders that had no real idea what it was all about.

I think that the

[Sons to Glory!]

It might just be me, but the end of your post sorta just leaves me hanging . . . (how's that for levity!?)

[OBW]

I'm not sure either. I always read through my posts several times before finally submitting them. But I have too often not then read it again after that, so I might have simply backed out to the front screen without seeing the error. I now have no immediate recollection of what is missing.

I have had some weird situations where the screen suddenly refreshes or even goes to a different place. It happens almost anywhere in my web browser but so infrequently that I have been unable to track down its cause. Maybe this was a hiccup related to that. I'm pretty sure I wasn't rushed into posting when I wasn't actually finished.

The only other thing I can think of is that I decided to stop at the end of the previous complete sentence and failed to notice that an undeleted remnant of a prior continuation remained hidden just off the bottom of the editing window.

[Sons to Glory!]

OK - yer forgiven!

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by Covert

What an absolute joke, but thank you so much for uploading essential content regarding the most disastrous storm the local churches love to talk about. Look at all those I should say "obsequious sycophants" (since g**n is intolerable to some), in the elders meetings just eating up witness lee lies. No accountability, no rebuke, no repentance, and no desire for the truth. Just a mountain of lies and sins that's gonna create an avalanche that will swallow them up on a downward spiral of destruction.

Just now two additional videos were added to that horrific playlist. [ https://www.bitchute.com/playlist/ZQK4S9rq3b8q/ ] So now there's eight additional hours of "obsequious sycophants" (goon-speakers) for y'all to marvel/cringe at. This wraps up my 1989 Elders Meeting Recordings project. Other tapes are yet to be processed from calendar year 1990. Probably much of the same tripe will be found there - especially so with the "Official Quarantining" of the so-called rebels in their lengthy March 1990 gathering (4 VHS Tapes)!

Feel free to contribute your favorite timestamps from these most recent uploads (and earlier ones). I got worn out and left that task for a later time. Thanks for anyone's help in that regard.

I do hope that this little bit of exposure will trigger the long overdue "Avalanche". So many innocent captives need to taste freedom from the lies, and Pharaoh's helpers in Anaheim deserve to be swamped by a tsunami of hard questions from LC members & leaders.

P.S.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Covert

Look at all those I should say "obsequious sycophants" (since g**n is intolerable to some), in the elders meetings just eating up witness lee lies. No accountability, no rebuke, no repentance, and no desire for the truth. Just a mountain of lies and sins that's gonna create an avalanche that will swallow them up on a downward spiral of destruction.

It's because of the "mountain of lies", whoever in the local churches has any interest in what John Ingalls had to say in "Speaking the Truth in Love", will have their "standing" in the local churches scrutinized and maybe asked to go meet somewhere else.
You have these "obsequious sycophants" taking what Witness Lee says back to their own localities and passing lies off as truth. Brothers and sisters have the mindset of not having reason to question what they're told and receive it good as gospel.
Now about this phrase "obsequious sycophants", term I've preferred to use is hirelings. They like the recognition and notoriety, but not the labor. Just setting meetings times and selling the latest and greatest from "the ministry" is the requirement they've set for themselves.
Brothers who used to labor as shepherds, they were made no longer welcome in the local churches. Leaving the toxic environment was best for their families.

[Covert]

My brother, Priestlyscribe, Im going to PM you and I hope you respond to my needs. Thank you for your time brother. Also, your videos are very essential and I hope others on the forum have kept these videos locked and loaded, and ready to be unloaded at any second.

[bettercountry]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Just now two additional videos were added to that horrific playlist. [ https://www.bitchute.com/playlist/ZQK4S9rq3b8q/ ] So now there's eight additional hours of "obsequious sycophants" (goon-speakers) for y'all to marvel/cringe at. This wraps up my 1989 Elders Meeting Recordings project. Other tapes are yet to be processed from calendar year 1990.

P.S.

Are these videos still available on the listed site? I just clicked on the link but I'm not seeing any videos.

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by bettercountry

Are these videos still available on the listed site? I just clicked on the link but I'm not seeing any videos.

Nah, that entire bitchute channel got cleaned out of it's content no doubt because of a complaint by LSM. I was never notified, just saw everything was gone.

But below is something temporary for you all to pick apart as I select a new platform for these full length Elders Meeting videos.

Speaking The Truth In Deception by Gene Gruhler | K9 ANEM 02A | Nov 26, 1989
https://youtu.be/dwvbF-ezAqw

As progress is made on a new distribution platform you will be updated.

P.S.

[FaithHopeLove]

Wow, thanks for sharing this video. I never knew there were already people who tried to expose this darkness while Witness Lee was still alive and in the midst of even his exposition in 1989. Just WOW.

[PriestlyScribe]

You are welcome. The irony of this particular segment (from K9-ANEM-02A) is that we see a prominent Lee Loyalist - Eugene Gruhler - officially reading into the recording many of the valid charges brought against Lee and his henchmen - and of which they are guilty! The whistle-blowers were not allowed to defend their position during this unrighteous proceeding however the reading from this one document by Gene Gruhler does a pretty good job of stating their case. Now 33 years later the leaders of this group have only grown more hostile to the Truth. They apparently lack any capacity to repent.

Here are a couple of full length videos which have thus far escaped LSM's destruction:
THE ELDERS' MEETINGS IN ANAHEIM | G9-ANEM-02A | Jul 9, 1989 - https://youtu.be/Pe-rz-fDHxQ
00:52:27 August 1987 is when the persecutions, rumors, oppositions came up.
00:52:51 Rosemead rose up right after that in September
00:53:23 First goal of the rising up - to oppose this God Ordained Way!
00:53:40 Second goal of the rising up - to smear the name, face & ministry of Witness Lee?
00:54:07 Rumor was spread that "The Lord has left the Recovery". Was this morning's Lord's Table Meeting a sign that the Lord has left the Recovery? Do you not agree that there was much presence of the Trinity!!
00:55:22 My ministry is under so much condemnation today. You put my ministry aside then what would be left? - NOTHING!! [so in brother Lee's view the local churches are worthless & empty without his "golden" ministry - what an arrogant & narcissistic minister of the age!]
00:56:22 Even they use what came out of this ministry to attack my ministry!
01:05:17 Every New Testament believer must be a crazy person, all the time in a kind of ecstasy?

THE ELDERS' MEETINGS IN ANAHEIM | G9 ANEM 02B | Jul 9, 1989 - https://youtu.be/jPJa0TfJ0lU
How to conduct the small group meetings. "We should be crazy all the day, not like a flat tire". This video mostly shows the "disarming" Witness Lee (version 1.0) which some of us respected in the past! But he fails to mention that only HIS ministry will be worthy of being "enjoyed" and spoken forth in the prophesying meetings.

THE ELDERS' MEETINGS IN ANAHEIM | K9 ANEM 01 | Nov 26, 1989 - https://youtu.be/MFKy9zDXkig
00:47:00 - "Satan knows that if he destroys my ministry the whole recovery will collapse"
00:57:00 - Is anyone else on the earth today being defamed like me? Being smeared like me? My employee in The Office. Who can be expected to be responsible for the behavior of his employees? My office has over fifty employees. Serving all your churches.
01:03:20 - "I never told you that anyone in my office is a co-worker!"
01:04:00 - Saying, someone there in my office is sinning?
01:04:14 - If anyone sins the church must exercise love, patience to cover....
01:04:50 - Which father over 80 should be held responsible for the behavior of their children? Even so, I did my best.
01:07:00 - Fermentation started in Hong Kong.
01:35:00 - 16 points were 16 bullets. If I did anything wrong, I would admit it.
01:37:00 - Blank spot in the video
01:39:00 - Innuendo is the most unethical thing.
01:57:00 - Benson Phillips explains the need for transitioning the tape ministry from BETA to VHS formats.
02:05:00 - Benson Phillips reveals the HUGE profit margin that LSM enjoyed at that time through the publication of the HWMR booklets - only FORTY CENTS to produce one copy!
02:14:00 - Andrew Yu begins to talk about staring up the Direct Mailing Service DMS

THE ELDERS' MEETINGS IN ANAHEIM | K9 ANEM 02B | Nov 26, 1989 - https://youtu.be/qAtxfZUJNQA
00:01:06 - Elton Karr reports on San Jose
00:07:00 - A division forms in Cupertino & Los Altos
00:07:40 - We heard that John Ingalls is giving a Conference in Cupertino this weekend.
00:11:00 - Paul Hon reports on Pleasant Hill
00:15:00 - Gary Kaiser reports on Sacramento
00:18:40 - Joel Kennon reports on Washington, Oregon, & Idaho. Report on Bill Freeman.
00:25:00 - Report on Alaska
00:29:40 - Report on the Mid-west
00:35:50 - Report on the Great Lakes area
00:40:24 - Gene Gruhler reports on the Mountain States
00:42:26 - Benson Phillips reports on Nebraska, Missouri, Texas, Alabama, Tennessee
00:47:23 - Joe Davis continues
00:50:30 - Bill Lawson? reports on New England
00:56:25 - Benjamin Chen reports on New York, New Jersey
01:02:35 - Bob Little? Report on Washington DC
01:06:18 - Report on S Carolina & Georgia
01:09:35 - Gene Gruhler - Interjects praise for the Elders in Atlanta who did not follow Bill Mallon
01:09:50 - Report on Florida
01:15:10 - Report on Western Canada
01:18:34 - Report on Eastern Canada
01:19:00 - Report on Toronto area specifically
01:23:00 - Dan Towle leads the brothers to call upon the name of the Lord three times. Gives report on Mexico & South America
01:27:00 - Re-Birth of "The Mind Benders" being published in Spain!
01:28:00 - Report on Puerto Rico
01:32:20 - Another brother continues the report.
01:35:50 - Report on Central America by Dr. Rick Scatterday?
01:42:00 - Brother Dong reports on Brazil
01:52:00 - Report on Paraguay
01:55:00 - Dan Towle reports on Western Europe
02:01:35 - Report on England, Chris Lee?

THE ELDERS' MEETINGS IN ANAHEIM | L9 ANEM 01 | Dec 30, 1989 - https://youtu.be/jbmfCz8YJqM
Outline is in the description of the video on YT.
Timestamps to hopefully be added here soon, help out if you can.

Note: The BlendedBrothers Channel where these videos reside is no longer accessible by me - I was locked out after LSM prodded YouTube to take down not only this channel but also the MendingMinistry YT which I had worked so hard to build up. Apparently something (supernatural?) hindered the complete take-down of the BB channel - hallelujah Jesus!

P.S.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

01:04:00 - Saying, someone there in my office is sinning?
01:04:14 - If anyone sins the church must exercise love, patience to cover....
01:04:50 - Which father over 80 should be held responsible for the behavior of their children? Even so, I did my best.

"Patience to cover" strikes in my as a kind of what we know today as cultural tolerance.
We know "church discipline" only occurs not because of sin, but because "the ministry" was offended.
I take Witness Lee said "Which father over 80 should be held responsible for the behavior of their children? Even so, I did my best."?
In the workplace employees are held accountable for their conduct.
It seems Witness Lee is saying he cannot hold his employees accountable for their conduct.

[FaithHopeLove]

Imagine Satan looking down and laughing his head off. I mean, Satan is a God mocking machine and mocks God's "sheeples". There are people in there who, to some extent and degree, are looking for God, but not fully. If they would fully and truly and purely be looking for God, they would see God just as God said so. They would see the things that are not from God in that place. This place is really a kind of tragedy and the level of deception is just too slick for the common people to realize. I've been in there for across 20 years+ and I have met across at least 11 different cities in several countries and never did I thought I would be speaking against it one day. If they are willing to change, and repent, they will be saved. But I really doubt they can. I believe the one who is controlling them at the top will not let them. Sadly, they think that the one controlling them at the top is God Himself. Which in fact, they don't even know who God is. They just know who God is according to what Witness Lee makes God out to be. They defend they are not following Witness Lee but " the vision God has given to Witness Lee ". Really? And how do you verify that claim to be true? By eating and drinking every word Witness Lee has to say?

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Speaking The Truth In Deception by Gene Gruhler | K9 ANEM 02A | Nov 26, 1989

Wow, it took LSM less than two weeks to get that Gene Gruhler video taken down off of YouTube.

So here is that same video (11 minutes) on another hosting platform and with a slightly different title:

Cultic Indoctrination by Gene Gruhler | K9 ANEM 02A | Nov 26, 1989
https://roxytube.com/watch/cultic-in...ezVHWhbSU.html

Feel free to share this with others. I placed some important hyperlinks in the video description.

PS

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

Wow, it took LSM less than two weeks to get that Gene Gruhler video taken down off of YouTube.

So here is that same video (11 minutes) on another hosting platform and with a slightly different title:

Cultic Indoctrination by Gene Gruhler | K9 ANEM 02A | Nov 26, 1989
https://roxytube.com/watch/cultic-in...ezVHWhbSU.html

Feel free to share this with others. I placed some important hyperlinks in the video description.

PS

If LSM is going to react to YouTube over some random LSM video, I wonder how they would react if the Pasadena Conference ever reached the public?

[PriestlyScribe]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

So here is that same video (11 minutes) on another hosting platform and with a slightly different title:

Cultic Indoctrination by Gene Gruhler | K9 ANEM 02A | Nov 26, 1989
https://roxytube.com/watch/cultic-in...ezVHWhbSU.html

Feel free to share this with others. I placed some important hyperlinks in the video description. PS

NOTE: I recently learned that the hosting site for this video got contacted by a representative of LSM threatening legal action if my videos and the channel was not taken down. This was several days ago and yet the videos are still there. Looks like LSM may not be able to always force everyone to do exactly what they want by merely issuing threats? Or maybe I am supposed to delete them myself?

Other videos still there:
Cultic Indoctrination Battle Hymn - https://roxytube.com/watch/cultic-in...eiMMOegy3.html

Cultic Indoctrination of Children Part 1A - 1987 - https://roxytube.com/watch/cultic-in...ig6IIV7jD.html

P.S.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by PriestlyScribe

NOTE: I recently learned that the hosting site for this video got contacted by a representative of LSM threatening legal action if my videos and the channel was not taken down.

This is ridiculous. I suppose it's viewed as "appealing to Caesar". Living Stream utilizes "appealing to Caesar" as some skewed justification of litigation. Whereas Paul's appealing to Caesar was regarding to appealing for his mortal life.

[Trapped]

Not to play devil's advocate here, but are these recordings copyrighted by LSM?

Edit to add: and by "these recordings" I don't just mean the ones related to this specific thread only, but local church audio/video in general too.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Not to play devil's advocate here, but are these recordings copyrighted by LSM?

Not at all. It’s a good question. I didn’t see a copyright notice but I didn’t watch all of it. Though I don’t think it needs to be displayed as long as there exists an original with a (C) or some such notice.

Another matter:
“How long does a copyright last?
The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication. As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. For works first published prior to 1978, the term will vary depending on several factors.”

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Terry

This is ridiculous. I suppose it's viewed as "appealing to Caesar". Living Stream utilizes "appealing to Caesar" as some skewed justification of litigation. Whereas Paul's appealing to Caesar was regarding to appealing for his mortal life.

Possible legal action could be copyright infringement, as to Trapped’s question.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Not to play devil's advocate here, but are these recordings copyrighted by LSM?

Edit to add: and by "these recordings" I don't just mean the ones related to this specific thread only, but local church audio/video in general too.

PriestlyScribe,

I'm going to assume they are copyrighted in some way, whether somewhere on the video itself, or stamped on the cassette, or stated in the cover/fold insert, because it would be extremely unusual for an established publication company to put out material without putting the necessary language to protect their intellectual property.

Because as much as we disagree with the "intellectual" part, the "property" part is true. It is LSM's property.

So it seems to me, PriestlyScribe, is what you are doing is akin to poking holes in someone else's dam, and then complaining and name-calling when they rightfully patch up the holes in their own dam. And this is kind of counterproductive to the overall message you are probably trying to send. Because if you violate copyright law, and then use LSM's lawful exercise against your violation in order to disparage them, it ends up reflecting badly upon you, rather than upon LSM.

Right now, you create a new channel or find a new platform, post new links publicly, and then......as is going to be expected, it gets taken down because it is a violation of copyright. And then you do the same process all over again, as if a company doesn't have the right to protect their property. And so the channels you create are always going to be difficult to find because they change so frequently, and the videos are never going to be able to get established as far as search engines and algorithms are concerned, and any comments people leave will be erased when the channel is gone. It's largely an exercise in futility.

So my humble suggestion would be this - since you DO have a treasure trove of important information, and you have put in lots of your valuable time in capturing and preserving all this information already, why not spend the other part of your valuable time using it in a way that is within the bounds of copyright, rather than pushing the same unlawful boulder up the same hill over and over again? There are countless videos on YouTube where the video host "reacts" to other people's content or they "comment" or "review" information or teachings, etc... Why not take that approach?

Right now one big problem with what you are doing is you upload the entire content without much, or any, change. It's the original content. And so you have no leg to stand on, copyright-wise. Would you consider doing something like, taking a small particularly-egregious portion of a video and then providing with it a commentary or an explanation of why it's egregious or why it's a problem? This kind of thing is much more in line with "fair use" and would be a more productive use of your time and the material you have at your disposal.

I don't know what constitutes "fair use" as far as how much of someone else's content you can or can't use before you bump up against copyright, but as I said, there are TONS of reacts/comments/reviews/responds videos on YouTube you can watch to get an idea of how other people use content that is not theirs, and then react to it or provide commentary about it.

Just a suggestion.

Trapped

P.S. and if you want to reach current members in the local church, use level-headed and sober language and imagery, not weird pictures of skulls or goats or devils or whatever, or references to "goons" etc. Any hint of "an ax to grind" is an instant turn off to current members.

[Nell]

“…copyright law does establish four factors that must be considered in deciding whether a use constitutes a fair use. These factors are:

*The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for non-profit educational purposes;
* The nature of the copyrighted work;
* The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
* The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.”

Exclusivity
Exclusivity in copyrighting means that the owner of the content (and copyright) have sole rights that cannot be claimed by any other person or organization without explicit permission. This is an important component of video copyright laws.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

This is ridiculous. I suppose it's viewed as "appealing to Caesar". Living Stream utilizes "appealing to Caesar" as some skewed justification of litigation. Whereas Paul's appealing to Caesar was regarding to appealing for his mortal life.

Paul’s was a criminal case. He was about to be lynched by radical Jews.

I Corinthians 6 refers to a civil case. Brother suing brother to recover some loss.

There’s a world of difference between the two.