Things Learned from LGBTQ+ Discussions

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Okay so I will be busy this week but let me just give an overview of what I believe the gospel to be:
The word gospel means “good news,” so the gospel of Christ is the good news of His coming to provide forgiveness of sins for all who will believe (Colossians 1:14; Romans 10:9). Since the first man’s sin, mankind has been under the condemnation of God (Romans 5:12). Because everyone breaks God’s perfect law by committing sin, everyone is guilty (Romans 3:23). The punishment for the crime of sin is physical death (Romans 6:23) and then an eternity spent in a place of punishment (Revelation 20:15; Matthew 25:46). This eternal separation from God is also called the “second death” (Revelation 20:14–15).

The bad news that all are guilty of sin and condemned by God is countered by the gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. God, because of His love for the world, has made a way for man to be forgiven of their sins (John 3:16). He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to take the sins of mankind on Himself through death on a cross (1 Peter 2:24). In placing our sin on Christ, God ensured that all who will believe in the name of Jesus will be forgiven (Acts 10:43). Jesus’ resurrection guarantees the justification of all who believe (Romans 4:25).

The Bible specifies the content of the gospel message: “Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time” (1 Corinthians 15:1–6). In this passage, Paul emphasizes the primacy of the gospel—it is of “first importance.” The gospel message contains two historical facts, both supported by Scripture: Christ’s death and His resurrection. Both those facts are bolstered by other proofs: Christ’s death is proved by His burial, and His resurrection is proved by the eyewitnesses.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the good news that God provided the way for man to be freed from the penalty of sin (John 14:6; Romans 6:23). Everyone dies physically, but those who believe in Jesus Christ are promised a physical resurrection unto eternal life (John 11:23–26). Those who reject Christ will not only die physically but will undergo a “second death,” which the Bible describes as an eternal lake of fire (Revelation 20:13–14). Jesus is the only One in whom salvation can be found (Acts 4:12).

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the best news anyone will ever hear, and what a person does with this news will determine where he or she spends eternity. God is calling you to choose life. Call on the name of the Lord and be saved (Romans 10:13).

This is according to the bible, although my personal beliefs is that God is all forgiving and I dont think hell exists as an eternal punishment (this is too much of a punishment for a human being who sinned for 100 years). But I’m sure God will sort it out.

In relation to sin, some Methodist and Episcopal and more “progressive” churches I’ve been through, they do not view homosexuality as a sin. If anything, it’s either not as bad as adultery or equal to adultery, depending on the specific church. And churches are very understanding towards those who divorce or have premarital sex, more so than homosexuality ( these are some other churches I’ve been to). So yes, I guess it really depends on what denomniation you go to. Some ordain women to be pastors and higher ups, some dont. I’ve been to a few Catholic ones and they seem a lot more open to homosexuality being as “come as you are”, the message being God accepts all diversity. Again, this is in California, and I’m sure those in the “Bible Belt” will disagree.

Thank you for that very thoughtful answer! Your focus on Christ as the one and only Savior of mankind is really good to hear! His substitutionary death for us on the cross was a huge price to pay for a huge penalty, of which we don't know the half of either!

That sums up the propitiation for sins . . . what are your thoughts on the "much more" aspect, as in Romans 5:10? "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life." Now that the sin aspect has been dealt with, we are much more blessed with "Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col 1:27)

And let me add that all the discussion about the degree of sin that homosexuality is, is a little above my pay-grade. Maybe others can address this better. It is off-the-mark as far as everything I read, and a sin much like many other fruits of the flesh as discussed here repeatedly. But my thought is not to get too wrapped around the axle - as far as my personal mental gymnastics go in trying to figure it all out - because this is one of the things He will quickly sort out when He returns. Is that making too light of homosexuality? Perhaps, but I'd rather err on the side of love when it comes to interacting with other believers. Love is a solid motivation that I can "take to the bank!" However, love also does not allow others to be harmed ---->But we must be careful that this isn't done out of some self-righteousness or other fleshly motive. Again, better to err on the side of love rather than on the side of judgment toward other believers.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed.

John 1:17 & Psalm 85:11

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Thank you for that very thoughtful answer! Your focus on Christ as the one and only Savior of mankind is really good to hear! His substitutionary death for us on the cross was a huge price to pay for a huge penalty, of which we don't know the half of either!

That sums up the propitiation for sins . . . what are your thoughts on the "much more" aspect, as in Romans 5:10? "For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life."" However, love also does not allow others to be harmed ---->But we must be careful that this isn't done out of some self-righteousness or other fleshly motive. Again, better to err on the side of love rather than on the side of judgment toward other believers.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed.

John 1:17 & Psalm 85:11

so those conversion therapies were out of self righteousness and fleshly motive. Now my question to you StG, is how do we preach it as love when our motive is for the person to be converted and recognize it as sin, as our preaching at times does more harm than good for the lgbtq? For example, How would you preach the gospel to lgbtq in your own words?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

so those conversion therapies were out of self righteousness and fleshly motive. Now my question to you StG, is how do we preach it as love when our motive is for the person to be converted and recognize it as sin, as our preaching at times does more harm than good for the lgbtq? For example, How would you preach the gospel to lgbtq in your own words?

Absolutely the same words as to anyone - focus on Christ and His amazing gift to us, and the need to accept Him! It's the Holy Spirit's job to touch people's hearts as they individually need.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

so those conversion therapies were out of self righteousness and fleshly motive.

Conversion therapies are evil. But they were just trying to save their souls from hell fire. That's why the belief in eternal hell fire is evil.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Conversion therapies are evil. But they were just trying to save their souls from hell fire. That's why the belief in eternal hell fire is evil.

This is a sidebar to the main discussion, but I had a thought come to me regarding eternal damnation this morning. In order for God to judge the devil and his minions to eternal damnation, He has to be righteous. Therefore, anyone not accepting the one provision for salvation in Christ, has to experience it too. Otherwise, the devil can point his finger and say to God, "That is totally unrighteous to send us to eternal damnation, because these humans got a pass and they didn't accept Christ as Lord either!"

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

This is a sidebar to the main discussion, but I had a thought come to me regarding eternal damnation this morning. In order for God to judge the devil and his minions to eternal damnation, He has to be righteous. Therefore, anyone not accepting the one provision for salvation in Christ, has to experience it too. Otherwise, the devil can point his finger and say to God, "That is totally unrighteous to send us to eternal damnation, because these beings got a pass and they didn't accept Christ as Lord either!"

Then gays that accept Jesus, like Serenity and her mate, escape eternal damnation? Otherwise they are as bad as the devil and his minions?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Then gays that accept Jesus, like Serenity and her mate, escape eternal damnation? Otherwise they are as bad as the devil and his minions?

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" Matt. 25:41

How could God be justified in throwing the devil and his angels into the lake of fire for not accepting Jesus as Lord, if He did not do the same with humans? The devil would certainly have grounds to accuse God of unrighteousness then. But as it says in Romans 3:19, "so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" Matt. 25:41

How could God be justified in throwing the devil and his angels into the lake of fire for not accepting Jesus as Lord, if He did not do the same with humans? The devil would certainly have grounds to accuse God of unrighteousness then. But as it says in Romans 3:19, "so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God."

But the verse you provided depends on how the least of these are treated, not accepting Jesus as Lord. And the LGBT community could be treating the least of these just fine.