A Corona Virus Great Awakening?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by OBW

Sorry. I don't buy the presumption of active determinism in everything that happens. I admit that we should always take any warning we received, whether it is actually intended as such, or is something that hits us in the head and we read it as a wake-up call. But trying to insist on the active intent of God in causing this virus for a purpose just isn't supportable. The OT events were directed at Israel for their benefit. God didn't punish the Ethiopians to warn the Jews. He punished the Jews.

As Jesus said (or asked) "Do you think that only the wicked died when that tower fell?"

This kind of thinking seems to be a kind of folk theology.

How do you explain the events depicted in Revelation then, that is, all the judgement that are purposefully poured out? Is that done because God hates man or loves man?

[Jo S]

I'll have to agree with OBW on this. To claim that the Coronavirus is a direct cause of God is claiming prophecy. I understand that in the LC's members are taught to be fast and loose with prophecy, but caution and discipline have to be practiced with these kinds of presumptions.

In Revelation, the plagues that take place happen “immediately after the distress of those days”. These plagues are to show the rebellious heart of man. This is also at a time when the restrainer, or the Holy Spirit, who is working today through the the body of Christ on earth will have been completely removed. So when these plagues come, everyone will know it's God's judgment. It'll be in a time much worse then this, but it seems we are getting closer each and every day.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I'll have to agree with OBW on this. To claim that the Coronavirus is a direct cause of God is claiming prophecy. I understand that in the LC's members are taught to be fast and loose with prophecy, but caution and discipline have to be practiced with these kinds of presumptions.

In Revelation, the plagues that take place happen “immediately after the distress of those days”. These plagues are to show the rebellious heart of man. This is also at a time when the restrainer, or the Holy Spirit, who is working today through the the body of Christ on earth will have been completely removed. So when these plagues come, everyone will know it's God's judgment. It'll be in a time much worse then this, but it seems we are getting closer each and every day.

So God does not use things like this to shake men's hearts so men may turn to Him and live?

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So God does not use things like this to shake men's hearts so men may turn to Him and live?

Of course. Scripture is clear that even things which are meant for evil, God can use for good. But it doesn't mean they're directly from him.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Of course. Scripture is clear that even things which are meant for evil, God can use for good. But it doesn't mean they're directly from him.

A mystery . . .

Has anyone else listened to Piper's free audio book, mentioned earlier on in this thread? I'm curious as to others' take on it.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Of course. Scripture is clear that even things which are meant for evil, God can use for good. But it doesn't mean they're directly from him.

Yet...it doesn't mean these "things" are not from him.

OBW: "I don't buy the presumption of active determinism in everything that happens."

No one said everything. We're just talking about COVID19...not everything.

It's just a conversation. Is John Piper wrong? He has an opinion, just like all of us do. I think we can hear him out...it's just a conversation.

Nell

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Nell

Yet...it doesn't mean these "things" are not from him. No one said everything. We're just talking about COVID19...not everything. It's just a conversation. Is John Piper wrong? He has an opinion, just like all of us do. I think we can hear him out...it's just a conversation.

I suppose that is true. I personally haven't received word from the LORD either way.

While I remain neutral to the cause of the Corona Virus, the reaction to it doesn't accurately reflect history. This leads me to believe at least the situation is being opportunistically politicized.

While it seems the virus is more deadly than Influenza, it's only marginally so. It's definitely not on the level of threat as something like Ebola for example.

I don't know what is going on beyond that but without getting too conspiratorial I do get the sense that the spirit of the world is heavily involved in this. No doubt the LORD is at work as well.

[Sons to Glory!]

I thought of Job's situation as pertaining to understanding all this and read what I thought to be a great synopsis online: https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section11/

I espcially liked this sentence at the very end:
"God suggests that people should not discuss divine justice since God’s power is so great that humans cannot possibly justify his ways."

It fits well at this discussion I think. (I just wonder which of Job's friend/advisors I would be . . .)

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

How do you explain the events depicted in Revelation then, that is, all the judgement that are purposefully poured out? Is that done because God hates man or loves man?

I see three eras.

The first is the OT where God declared that he would punish Israel if they were disobedient. (Yes, he also punished Sodom, and threatened to do the same to Nineveh, among others.) And he sent warnings in some cases stating their error and giving them a chance to repent.

The second is the NT era prior to the end times. That is where we are now. There is clearly promises of difficulty during this time. But no indication of warnings to be given to the church in the manner as was done to/for Israel. We have been given the scripture and the Spirit and should not need overt warnings. There is no promise to take action on nations, leaders, etc. But just as has happened throughout history, nations rise and fall. Both good and bad leaders take power all over the earth and eventually both are overthrown. Yet the church persists.

Then comes the end times. As part of that, there will be judgment for all the earth. It has endured the general judgment that came with the fall, but not the direct and active punishment of God. There are several word pictures indicating that this happens, though the precision as to how it happens is not clear.

Since I believe that we are in the second of those three periods of time, I do not generally understand the cycles of nature, and the whims of man as necessarily messages from God. Not saying he cannot do it or does not. But to think that because there is a pandemic that God is saying something specific beyond what he is always saying — “repent” — is little more than presumption. I cannot find evidence of such events in this era being that kind of prophetic warning.

Should we repent if we need to? (And we always do.) Of course. But what should we repent for? The sins of the evil age in which we live, or our own sins? I suggest it is the latter. Now I think the church has a lot to repent for. Seeking to gain political power to accomplish what only God can do in the lives of those who do not profess belief in Christ. Ignoring the poor, widow, orphan, and alien. Should I continue? We should repent for not living in obedience to the righteousness of God. For not bearing the image of God while we claim to be His ambassadors.

But from what I can see, for the most part the church is not seeing any actual call to repentance, but rather seeing a need to perfect the moral righteousness of the heathen without first leading them to faith in the God who calls for that righteousness. We are so quick to decry such backwards thinking within the church, but instead force it upon the heathen anyway.