Bible as the Absolute Authority

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by jesusislord

Too much faith in the scripture? Are you saying God contradict himself with his own words? What do you means by being balance?

As others have pointed out, God has given us both His word and the Anointing to sustain us, and I would add having ongoing fellowship with others.

I see a good part of Christendom as having gone to the extreme of almost Bible worship. I can't tell you how many times I've heard things said like, "The Bible has all the answers. If you just follow its teachings you will lead a good Christian life." (Sometimes something is added like, "And be sure to go to the Lord with it" almost as an afterthought.) It is a an old covenant, legal and outward understanding of trying to live the Christian life . . .

This is really adding something to Christ alone. That is, it's saying believers should try to do something (spelled "flesh") to follow the outward letter. It looks spiritual because it's "following God's word." Galatians was written to address this. The new covenant is that God has written on our hearts and minds through the indwelling Spirit of Christ. It is God working IN us to transform us and give us the supply to do His will, not by just outwardly following the written word.

So we need BOTH the Word and the Spirit consistently - and also fellowship. (And, as others pointed out, the LC often tended to go to the other extreme.)

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

As others have pointed out, God has given us both His word and the Anointing to sustain us, and I would add having ongoing fellowship with others.

I see a good part of Christendom as having gone to the extreme of almost Bible worship. I can't tell you how many times I've heard things said like, "The Bible has all the answers. If you just follow its teachings you will lead a good Christian life." (Sometimes something is added like, "And be sure to go to the Lord with it" almost as an afterthought.) It is a an old covenant, legal and outward understanding of trying to live the Christian life . . .

This is really adding something to Christ alone. That is, it's saying believers should try to do something (spelled "flesh") to follow the outward letter. It looks spiritual because it's "following God's word." Galatians was written to address this. The new covenant is that God has written on our hearts and minds through the indwelling Spirit of Christ. It is God working IN us to transform us and give us the supply to do His will, not by just outwardly following the written word.

So we need BOTH the Word and the Spirit consistently - and also fellowship. (And, as others pointed out, the LC often tended to go to the other extreme.)

Brother StG, in love, and with appreciation for you as my brother in Christ, what the heck? This is contradicting within itself, and, has the LC taint of 'christendom' vs us who know something special....the Spirit. It is a huge assumption that those in 'christendom', when, trusting Jesus and His word, point to the scriptures as a solution for....you name it....it is a huge assumption that that is happening outside the Lords' spirit and leading, influence and teaching......how do you know? Are you the Holy Spirit? Have you searched each individual heart? Why, in 'christendom' is that precious trust then demoted to the ranks of 'flesh' 'old covenant' erroneous 'bible worship' and only 'looks spiritual'?

The Holy Spirit is living in the body, aside from the tares....each individual member planted by God Himself. Don't you think He is able to operate in every member who trusts the word to open it and look for the truth there, look for the Lord there? I do. The word is amazing. It carries out every claim God breathed there. It actually does operate! It actually does instruct! It is actually living!! It is a mystery I am only witness to, not qualified to expound upon, but brother, that view that we brought with us straight from the LC is a religious spirit. I rebuke it, in Jesus name.

Didn't the Lord ask us to hide his word in our hearts? And isn't it our lamp to our feet? If He gave it to us with so many functions, why look down on those who value it so? Because they are not.....what? Trained up in the Lee way? Educated enough on the indwelling Holy Spirit? Is this not here in the word? Do they not have access to this truth and the reality of it....in the very book they promote? You are so right about our need for the word and the Spirit, and fellowship in the body.....but your thinking of the body lacking one or more of these elements....well that would take your personal intimate fellowship with each member of Christs' body to discern. Do you know each member?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Brother StG, in love, and with appreciation for you as my brother in Christ, what the heck? This is contradicting within itself, and, has the LC taint of 'christendom' vs us who know something special....the Spirit. It is a huge assumption that those in 'christendom', when, trusting Jesus and His word, point to the scriptures as a solution for....you name it....it is a huge assumption that that is happening outside the Lords' spirit and leading, influence and teaching......how do you know? Are you the Holy Spirit? Have you searched each individual heart? Why, in 'christendom' is that precious trust then demoted to the ranks of 'flesh' 'old covenant' erroneous 'bible worship' and only 'looks spiritual'?

Sorry if that bothered you. It is just my observation that the fact of the indwelling Christ is not well appreciated by many I listen to on radio and TV, and in person when I visit many (but not all) other gatherings. Gosh, I certainly didn't mean it in an "us vs. them" context - God forbid, and forgive me if it came across that way.

But I stand by the observation that - it seems to me - that many are stuck in a form of Bible worship, without appreciating that without Christ's life lived out through us, we can do nothing. I truly don't mean to impugn brothers and sisters who do this. Shoot, if I could, I'd live the daily Christian life without Christ! What I mean is my flesh tries to do exactly that every day . . . but alas, the past 45 years experience is teaching me that it's all impossible without Him living through me.

A brother at my local gathering spoke something like this last Sunday (actually quoting another brother), "Religion is just trying to live the Christian life without the indwelling Christ." I think this is accurate & true. (and as mentioned, is brought out in Galatians)

As I said in the prior post, we need both the written word and the indwelling Spirit to make it all come alive. Without the Spirit, it's a dead letter - lots of good knowledge and principles, but devoid of life supply to live it out. To be sure, to focus on one without the other is an error. And at the end of my post, I did say the LC tended to focus too much on the spiritual aspect (and therefore they left the interpretation of the written word to WL).

I hope that clarifies and makes sense. (and please let me know if you still think I'm in left field somewhere . . .)

[Ohio]

James defines "religion" as what Paul would call "good works" and Jesus would call "loving your neighbor as yourself." The problem, at least to my thinking, is not so-called religion, but hypocrisy. Jesus did not condemn religion, especially that given thru Moses. Jesus rather condemned hypocrisy, unbelief, deceptions, preventing others from entering the kingdom.

"Living the Christian life without the indwelling Christ?!?"

For decades I have listened to many talk this way, and they are the most guilty. (Romans 2.1)

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

James defines "religion" as what Paul would call "good works" and Jesus would call "loving your neighbor as yourself." The problem, at least to my thinking, is not so-called religion, but hypocrisy. Jesus did not condemn religion, especially that given thru Moses. Jesus rather condemned hypocrisy, unbelief, deceptions, preventing others from entering the kingdom.

"Living the Christian life without the indwelling Christ?!?"

For decades I have listened to many talk this way, and they are the most guilty. (Romans 2.1)

Well there ya go, Pilgrim! (trivia Q - where's that from?)

So what would you say the new covenant is about, bro?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Well there ya go, Pilgrim! (trivia Q - where's that from?)

Where is what from?

[Sons to Glory!]

"Well there ya go, Pilgrim!" (trivia Q - where's that from?)

Originally Posted by Ohio

Where is what from?

FYI The quote is a paraphrase from John Wayne's character in "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance." (now aren't you glad you asked?)

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

James defines "religion" as what Paul would call "good works" and Jesus would call "loving your neighbor as yourself." The problem, at least to my thinking, is not so-called religion, but hypocrisy. Jesus did not condemn religion, especially that given thru Moses. Jesus rather condemned hypocrisy, unbelief, deceptions, preventing others from entering the kingdom.

"Living the Christian life without the indwelling Christ?!?"

For decades I have listened to many talk this way, and they are the most guilty. (Romans 2.1)

It seems like this issue boils down to an LC perspective and it, I think, is inaccurate. In the LC we were taught we had to exercise our spirit in order to join with the Holy Spirit, to mingle ourselves with God, but the way I see it now, it was all works based. Just like many things LC, works based salvation was preached against, then Lee invented his own but labeled it something else.

Scripture says he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.

If we are talking about 'religion' (this is the LC/bad religion) being some kind of practicing to be a Christian without the Spirit.....the only ones able to do this would be the unregenerated. I don't believe it is possible for a born again Christian to 'practice christianity apart from the Holy Spirit'. That is a distinctly Lee teaching, and I think he used it to make his distinction between his group and the rest of the genuine body of Christ. I don't think his teaching has any validity.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

It seems like this issue boils down to an LC perspective and it, I think, is inaccurate. In the LC we were taught we had to exercise our spirit in order to join with the Holy Spirit, to mingle ourselves with God, but the way I see it now, it was all works based. Just like many things LC, works based salvation was preached against, then Lee invented his own but labeled it something else.

Scripture says he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.

If we are talking about 'religion' (this is the LC/bad religion) being some kind of practicing to be a Christian without the Spirit.....the only ones able to do this would be the unregenerated. I don't believe it is possible for a born again Christian to 'practice christianity apart from the Holy Spirit'. That is a distinctly Lee teaching, and I think he used it to make his distinction between his group and the rest of the genuine body of Christ. I don't think his teaching has any validity.

Great points here.

How does one know what is in the heart of his fellow believer? How can anyone categorically claim that others are "living the Christian life without the indwelling Spirit?" This is the kind of gross generalizations that WL built his ministry on. Today his former and current followers still think and speak this way.

How can anyone pass such judgments on others? Because one does not attend your trainings? Because one does not shout training slogans? Because one is a quiet and reserved Christian? I could go on forever here with all the criticisms which were passed on to me in the LC.

Let me get passed beloved brother STG and his loving congregation in AZ, and get to the source of this statement. How does one critique others of "living the Christian life without the indwelling Spirit" and then regularly file lawsuits against Christians? Cover up crimes of abuse and immorality in their church businesses? Train others to seek only "good material?" Deceive this "good material" of who you really are?

How can this be? What kind of indwelling spirit is that?

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How does one know what is in the heart of his fellow believer? How can anyone categorically claim that others are "living the Christian life without the indwelling Spirit?" This is the kind of gross generalizations that WL built his ministry on. Today his former and current followers still think and speak this way.

Right. One needs two faces. One for condemning a thing, the second to practice said thing under a different 'banner'.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Sorry if that bothered you. It is just my observation that the fact of the indwelling Christ is not well appreciated by many I listen to on radio and TV, and in person when I visit many (but not all) other gatherings. Gosh, I certainly didn't mean it in an "us vs. them" context - God forbid, and forgive me if it came across that way.

But I stand by the observation that - it seems to me - that many are stuck in a form of Bible worship, without appreciating that without Christ's life lived out through us, we can do nothing. I truly don't mean to impugn brothers and sisters who do this. Shoot, if I could, I'd live the daily Christian life without Christ! What I mean is my flesh tries to do exactly that every day . . . but alas, the past 45 years experience is teaching me that it's all impossible without Him living through me.

A brother at my local gathering spoke something like this last Sunday (actually quoting another brother), "Religion is just trying to live the Christian life without the indwelling Christ." I think this is accurate & true. (and as mentioned, is brought out in Galatians)

As I said in the prior post, we need both the written word and the indwelling Spirit to make it all come alive. Without the Spirit, it's a dead letter - lots of good knowledge and principles, but devoid of life supply to live it out. To be sure, to focus on one without the other is an error. And at the end of my post, I did say the LC tended to focus too much on the spiritual aspect (and therefore they left the interpretation of the written word to WL).

I hope that clarifies and makes sense. (and please let me know if you still think I'm in left field somewhere . . .)

What I could have said with more grace, is, that I believe our trust in scripture is the outward manifestation of our faith in Jesus the son of God. Just like baptism. It is a visible display of our invisible faith. It is our faith in Jesus that brings us to Gods word, and our faith in Jesus that issues in trust in His word. And praise Jesus, brother.....Rom 3

(22)even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

(23)for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

(24)being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Maybe it was me that made the huge assumption. But we have the righteousness of God upon us, in spite of the fact we have zero righteousness in us without our faith in Christ. I am just thankful for this today. And the Holy Spirit is operating in those who believe, and that, mysteriously, partly, through His word. I mean, what mystery....Jesus Himself is the Word of God. But thank you for clarifying, brother. I think I know what you mean now.