Bible as the Absolute Authority

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

It seems like this issue boils down to an LC perspective and it, I think, is inaccurate. In the LC we were taught we had to exercise our spirit in order to join with the Holy Spirit, to mingle ourselves with God, but the way I see it now, it was all works based. Just like many things LC, works based salvation was preached against, then Lee invented his own but labeled it something else.

Scripture says he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.

If we are talking about 'religion' (this is the LC/bad religion) being some kind of practicing to be a Christian without the Spirit.....the only ones able to do this would be the unregenerated. I don't believe it is possible for a born again Christian to 'practice christianity apart from the Holy Spirit'. That is a distinctly Lee teaching, and I think he used it to make his distinction between his group and the rest of the genuine body of Christ. I don't think his teaching has any validity.

Great points here.

How does one know what is in the heart of his fellow believer? How can anyone categorically claim that others are "living the Christian life without the indwelling Spirit?" This is the kind of gross generalizations that WL built his ministry on. Today his former and current followers still think and speak this way.

How can anyone pass such judgments on others? Because one does not attend your trainings? Because one does not shout training slogans? Because one is a quiet and reserved Christian? I could go on forever here with all the criticisms which were passed on to me in the LC.

Let me get passed beloved brother STG and his loving congregation in AZ, and get to the source of this statement. How does one critique others of "living the Christian life without the indwelling Spirit" and then regularly file lawsuits against Christians? Cover up crimes of abuse and immorality in their church businesses? Train others to seek only "good material?" Deceive this "good material" of who you really are?

How can this be? What kind of indwelling spirit is that?

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

How does one know what is in the heart of his fellow believer? How can anyone categorically claim that others are "living the Christian life without the indwelling Spirit?" This is the kind of gross generalizations that WL built his ministry on. Today his former and current followers still think and speak this way.

Right. One needs two faces. One for condemning a thing, the second to practice said thing under a different 'banner'.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Right. One needs two faces. One for condemning a thing, the second to practice said thing under a different 'banner'.

Or as James said, a "double-souled" man.

[byHismercy]

I didn't mean to imply all who submit to arranged marriages are foolish. Actually, I think it could open the door for the Lord to arrange blessing on a couple....and be a wonderful marriage. I simply suspect the LC motives in their involvement. And I do think it is part of a cultic indoctrination. I think it is very possible to give so much personal power over to a group until it becomes too late, in a sense, to dispute them. One can transfer control over away from oneself until that one literally has no control over their own lives. But of course, it is an illusion. A lie the enemy got them to believe. One that the Lord could help them wash off.

[aron]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

I think it is very possible to give so much personal power over to a group until it becomes too late, in a sense, to dispute them. One can transfer control over away from oneself until that one literally has no control over their own lives..

In the Casteel Open Letter one can see what this looks like as it plays out. The Casteels were reading the Bible, and experiencing and seeing things different from what the Bible says, but to even consciously note that discrepancy caused a reflexive response within - "I'm being negative!! No!!"

One must not, under any circumstances, question leadership. It is deeply ingrained and embedded in all the "oneness" teachings. Related, Casteel said that she started shaking and crying as she typed in search words on Google, trying to find information about this group. Again, one must never seek an alternate narrative, explanation or understanding, other than the one given by leadership.

And she clearly identified what was going on in all this: it was fear, being used to control and manipulate people. As you say, "cultic indoctrination". As adults it's bad enough. I know, I was there. But in children it's brutal. They simply have never had any other frame of reference.

[Sons to Glory!]

Can someone please summarize the discussion on this thread in the last couple days, and how that applies to the topic at hand? Thanks. (not saying it doesn't apply . . . just not sure how)

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Can someone please summarize the discussion on this thread in the last couple days, and how that applies to the topic at hand? Thanks. (not saying it doesn't apply . . . just not sure how)

Squirrel! Oh let’s go chase it. No, rabbit over there, let’s chase that, wait. What, we’re off topic? This is fun!

[aron]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Can someone please summarize the discussion on this thread in the last couple days, and how that applies to the topic at hand? Thanks. (not saying it doesn't apply . . . just not sure how)

First post said that Martin Luther recovered the authority of scripture in church, and Witness Lee and his Local Church effectively overturned that. I referenced the Jo Casteel Facebook letter to show how that played out in the LC. The Bible, i.e. the "pure word", was replaced by the "interpreted word" and any loss in meaning was collateral damage, along with our consciences, our ability to think critically, and so on. And so "interpretation" became a means of control.