Does the Bible say we are Sinners?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Raptor

So yes, we as saved believers who still have the flesh are and can be:

• Born again
• Crucified
• Dead to sin
• Washed
• Redeemed
• Alive to God
• Saints
• Sons of God
• children of light
• faithful
• wise
• prudent
• overcoming
• holy
• blameless
  Add
• victorious
• faithful
• righteous
• light
• loving
• long suffering

AND/OR

• evil
• evil and slothful slave
• worker of lawlessness
• useless slave
• lukewarm
• wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked
• foolish
• dead
• loveless
• fornicator
• adulterer
• idolater
• effeminate
• homosexual
• unrighteous
• profane
• defeated
  And add
• MURDERER!
• SINNER
• lovers of self
• prideful/boasters

Unregenerated only have the fleshly list to draw upon; Regenerated ones have the choice to draw on either. We have the freedom to do so. God says, "Today I have placed before you death and life . . . choose life!"

So we can choose to have our source in the flesh, but that's not who we are. We are new creations in Christ!

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Unregenerated only have the fleshly list to draw upon; Regenerated ones have the choice to draw on either. We have the freedom to do so. God says, "Today I have placed before you death and life . . . choose life!"

So we can choose to have our source in the flesh, but that's not who we are. We are new creations in Christ!

The interesting thing is that you can have a regenerated person that goes back to live a sinful life, and an unregenerated unbeliever that lives a moral life. Outwardly, the unbeliever can appear to live the life of a believer, while the regenerated lives as a sinner. This is an interesting testimony of a genuine christian that fell into a very sinful trap and finally was rescued by the Lord. He says he realized he was "hurting Him", among other things....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-SjJNT_fiw

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The interesting thing is that you can have a regenerated person that goes back to live a sinful life, and an unregenerated unbeliever that lives a moral life. Outwardly, the unbeliever can appear to live the life of a believer, while the regenerated lives as a sinner. This is an interesting testimony of a genuine christian that fell into a very sinful trap and finally was rescued by the Lord. He says he realized he was "hurting Him", among other things....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-SjJNT_fiw

Yes. Of course, there is the Bema Seat of Christ where believers give an accounting of things done in the body . . . and living from the flesh means zero profit.

Good video and testimony - reminded me of my various experiences of how strong He comes in when I've turned to Him in utter desperation. "You will seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart." Jer 29:13

[Sons to Glory!]

Since there haven't been any more responses in the last several days on this topic, I thought to summarize:

• In Adam, we were all sinners
• When regenerated with the new birth, believers are now a new creation in Christ
• Our old man was crucified
• The blood of Christ cleanses us 100%
• Our life is hidden with Christ - He is our life (we were put in Him by God)
• Believers are made God's children because of His life in us
• Our identity is in Him
• Though we saints may sin, we are no longer identified specifically as "sinners"

If none of the above is clear, I suggest reading through this thread, which gives various verses and illustrations regarding the matter. (or just ask)

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Since there haven't been any more responses in the last several days on this topic, I thought to summarize:

• In Adam, we were all sinners
• When regenerated with the new birth, believers are now a new creation in Christ
• Our old man was crucified
• The blood of Christ cleanses us 100%
• Our life is hidden with Christ - He is our life (we were put in Him by God)
• Believers are made God's children because of His life in us
• Our identity is in Him
• Though we saints may sin, we are no longer identified specifically as "sinners"

If none of the above is clear, I suggest reading through this thread, which gives various verses and illustrations regarding the matter. (or just ask)

The list again does not give a complete and accurate picture. It reflects our positional status, objectively, but it's short on the subjective side. We could be living in the opposite of each of these items.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The list again does not give a complete and accurate picture. It reflects our positional status, objectively, but it's short on the subjective side. We could be living in the opposite of each of these items.

The "objective side" is as God sees us, right? So that's where our focus should be.

The Bible is not shy about talking about our issues and subjective experiences. However, we are exhorted in the New Covenant that the way to victory is to not look so much at those things and identify with them, but rather look to Jesus and who we are in Him!

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

The "objective side" is as God sees us, right? So that's where our focus should be.

The Bible is not shy about talking about our issues and subjective experiences. However, we are exhorted in the New Covenant that the way to victory is to not look so much at those things and identify with them, but rather look to Jesus and who we are in Him!

No, not exactly, God gives us the objective side but will judge us based on the subjective side, and He will see all of it and show it to us in the light at the JSoC.. If all you do is identify with the objective side, you risk to be deceived. For example, just one of your points, being washed 100% by His blood: yes objectively, but subjectively, probably most christians have unconfessed sins, and risk to suffer loss at the judgement seat of Christ. Yes, our old man has been crucified with Christ, but Paul also says, those who are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts. How many of us have crucified the flesh today in our experience? Did not the Lord admonish us to take up the cross daily? So many christians think everything is OK, even some will prophesy, expel demons and do works of power in His name, and they will be effective, yet the Lord sees them as workers of lawlessness. You need to balance your view. You oversimplify the "way to victory", it includes confessing all those things and dealing with them, Rev. 2&3 ring a bell?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Since there haven't been any more responses in the last several days on this topic, I thought to summarize:

• In Adam, we were all sinners
• When regenerated with the new birth, believers are now a new creation in Christ
• Our old man was crucified
• The blood of Christ cleanses us 100%
• Our life is hidden with Christ - He is our life (we were put in Him by God)
• Believers are made God's children because of His life in us
• Our identity is in Him
• Though we saints may sin, we are no longer identified specifically as "sinners"

If none of the above is clear, I suggest reading through this thread, which gives various verses and illustrations regarding the matter. (or just ask)

The Bible does say (1 John 1:8-10, BLB) “if we should say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we should confess our sins, He is faithful and just, that He may forgive us our sins and might cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we should say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by JJ

The Bible does say (1 John 1:8-10, BLB) “if we should say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we should confess our sins, He is faithful and just, that He may forgive us our sins and might cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we should say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”

Correct! Saints who still sometimes sin (and in my case, more often than not)!

Originally Posted by byHismercy

You guys are cracking me up. THAT is a picture of a dead cow. Too funny. And is there such a camp, or was that a joke?? I love that assessment, was it Arons? We stand before the Lord in confession of our sin, and simultaneously send Satan and his accusations away, rightfully so. I agree!

Yup! There certainly is a "Dead Horse Ranch State Park" here in Arizona. It's the wild west partmer!

[Trapped]

James 5:19-20
¹⁹ My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, ²⁰ remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

I haven't followed this particular thread closely enough to know if it was resolved, but I just wanted to throw this verse into the mix. From context it seems like he is calling a believer (brothers/sisters/one of you) "a sinner" if they wander from the truth. What constitutes "wandering from the truth", I don't know, but this verse would possibly imply that you can be saved and still be a sinner, depending on conduct, i.e. I guess, depending on whether or not you sin.

Trapped