Does the Bible say we are Sinners?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We're long past that point.

And to think that just last week we were camping in Dead Horse Ranch State Park!

[aron]

It's possible that StG and I were merely stressing different aspects of the same undivided whole (I won't include other posters' comments as I wasn't paying attention . . .)

Notice that I used the word "position", rather than "nature". I feel that our position before God should properly be as penitent sinners. Yes, even "chief of sinners".

But our position before the adversary is, "Be gone, Satan!" Yes, we are kings. Sin should not rule over us. I just don't think we should be presumptuous before the Day of Judgment.

But I may have hijacked a perfectly reasonable discussion with my own drum-beating. It has happened before.

Certainly StG and I would receive each other in a meeting (assembly, fellowship, 'ekklesia'), irrespective of how we use terms. Jesus is the Lord.

[Raptor]

I think one of the implied definitions in the Bible for the word "sinner" is unbeliever, these seem to be used synonymously. Actually, the unique sin, the one sin that causes people to end up in the lake of fire under God's judgement is unbelief in the Son of God who died for us and was raised. So it follows to say that if you believe in the gospel, then you are no longer a sinner in that sense.

Nevertheless even as repentant sinners, redeemed people and regenerated sons of God, we still have the flesh and the self; the sinful nature still dwells in us and we do sin, and maybe not just occasionally. Actually, the more we go on in the Lord, the more His light should shine in us exposing so many things He wants us to confess and deal with.

I think the healthy view of our status is again, a dual status, basically we are saved sinners. If we emphasize one too much, we either end up in condemnation (on the side of "sinner", i.e. "I cannot go on, God hates me, I am worthless") or delusion (on the side of "saint", i.e."I am wealthy and have become rich and have need of nothing").

So yes, we as saved believers who still have the flesh are and can be:

• Born again
• Crucified
• Dead to sin
• Washed
• Redeemed
• Alive to God
• Saints
• Sons of God
• children of light
• faithful
• wise
• prudent
• overcoming
• holy
• blameless

AND/OR

• evil
• evil and slothful slave
• worker of lawlessness
• useless slave
• lukewarm
• wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked
• foolish
• dead
• loveless
• fornicator
• adulterer
• idolater
• effeminate
• homosexual
• unrighteous
• profane
• defeated

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Raptor

So yes, we as saved believers who still have the flesh are and can be:

• Born again
• Crucified
• Dead to sin
• Washed
• Redeemed
• Alive to God
• Saints
• Sons of God
• children of light
• faithful
• wise
• prudent
• overcoming
• holy
• blameless
  Add
• victorious
• faithful
• righteous
• light
• loving
• long suffering

AND/OR

• evil
• evil and slothful slave
• worker of lawlessness
• useless slave
• lukewarm
• wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked
• foolish
• dead
• loveless
• fornicator
• adulterer
• idolater
• effeminate
• homosexual
• unrighteous
• profane
• defeated
  And add
• MURDERER!
• SINNER
• lovers of self
• prideful/boasters

Unregenerated only have the fleshly list to draw upon; Regenerated ones have the choice to draw on either. We have the freedom to do so. God says, "Today I have placed before you death and life . . . choose life!"

So we can choose to have our source in the flesh, but that's not who we are. We are new creations in Christ!

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Unregenerated only have the fleshly list to draw upon; Regenerated ones have the choice to draw on either. We have the freedom to do so. God says, "Today I have placed before you death and life . . . choose life!"

So we can choose to have our source in the flesh, but that's not who we are. We are new creations in Christ!

The interesting thing is that you can have a regenerated person that goes back to live a sinful life, and an unregenerated unbeliever that lives a moral life. Outwardly, the unbeliever can appear to live the life of a believer, while the regenerated lives as a sinner. This is an interesting testimony of a genuine christian that fell into a very sinful trap and finally was rescued by the Lord. He says he realized he was "hurting Him", among other things....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-SjJNT_fiw

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The interesting thing is that you can have a regenerated person that goes back to live a sinful life, and an unregenerated unbeliever that lives a moral life. Outwardly, the unbeliever can appear to live the life of a believer, while the regenerated lives as a sinner. This is an interesting testimony of a genuine christian that fell into a very sinful trap and finally was rescued by the Lord. He says he realized he was "hurting Him", among other things....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-SjJNT_fiw

Yes. Of course, there is the Bema Seat of Christ where believers give an accounting of things done in the body . . . and living from the flesh means zero profit.

Good video and testimony - reminded me of my various experiences of how strong He comes in when I've turned to Him in utter desperation. "You will seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart." Jer 29:13

[Sons to Glory!]

Since there haven't been any more responses in the last several days on this topic, I thought to summarize:

• In Adam, we were all sinners
• When regenerated with the new birth, believers are now a new creation in Christ
• Our old man was crucified
• The blood of Christ cleanses us 100%
• Our life is hidden with Christ - He is our life (we were put in Him by God)
• Believers are made God's children because of His life in us
• Our identity is in Him
• Though we saints may sin, we are no longer identified specifically as "sinners"

If none of the above is clear, I suggest reading through this thread, which gives various verses and illustrations regarding the matter. (or just ask)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

And to think that just last week we were camping in Dead Horse Ranch State Park!

Perhaps a sign from heaven for us all?

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

And to think that just last week we were camping in Dead Horse Ranch State Park!

You guys are cracking me up. THAT is a picture of a dead cow. Too funny. And is there such a camp, or was that a joke?? I love that assessment, was it Arons? We stand before the Lord in confession of our sin, and simultaneously send Satan and his accusations away, rightfully so. I agree!