Does the Bible say we are Sinners?

Trapped · 10-26-2019, 09:15 PM

StG, are you trying to ask the question of "are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners"?

Which inevitably involves the example of a little baby to make the point.......is a three week old baby a sinner just a few steps into the game?

I'll make a few comments which may or may not pertain to what you are aiming for. These are my personal thoughts, and I haven't taken the time to look up verses to see if they are 100% sound.

1. Adam and Eve were created with not a fallen human nature, but a full human nature. They were not created with a fallen sinful nature, but a full human nature that had the equal ability to sin or not sin, without having an inherent propensity toward either.

2. When Adam and Eve chose to sin, sin thus entered the entire human race and man's nature became a fallen human nature. Both Adam and Eve fell, so their kids could only also have this same fallen nature.

3. Jesus was born not with a fallen human nature, but with a full human nature, just as Adam and Eve had at their initial creation.....He had the equal ability to sin or not sin just as Adam and Eve originally had.....and was tempted in every respect, yet did not sin. Amazing.

4. Because everyone after Adam and Eve were born with a fallen human nature, except Jesus, everyone has this sinful nature that inherently causes us to sin. It's my personal belief that we are sinners because we have the sinful nature which causes us to sin, not that we sin because we are sinners. You can't be something unless you have done it. You can't be a bricklayer unless you have actually laid bricks. You can't be a computer programmer unless you have programmed computers. You can't be a sinner unless you have sinned.

With that logic (that others may disagree with) in mind, it seems to me that we can say we all have the sinful nature and are born with the sinful nature. Every baby is born with a sinful nature. But can we say that baby is a sinner before it has committed its first sin? I personally don't see how. Eventually enough time will pass and the baby will grow enough to consciously disobey and commit its first sin, at which point it will be an actual sinner. Before that point I don't see how we can say it is a sinner, but we can say it has a sinful nature.

So if anyone is conscious enough to be asking or wondering whether or not they are a sinner, by that point, yes, they are sinner!

10-26-2019, 09:15 PM	#10
Trapped Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 1,523	Re: Does the Bible say we are Sinners? StG, are you trying to ask the question of "are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners"? Which inevitably involves the example of a little baby to make the point.......is a three week old baby a sinner just a few steps into the game? I'll make a few comments which may or may not pertain to what you are aiming for. These are my personal thoughts, and I haven't taken the time to look up verses to see if they are 100% sound. 1. Adam and Eve were created with not a fallen human nature, but a full human nature. They were not created with a fallen sinful nature, but a full human nature that had the equal ability to sin or not sin, without having an inherent propensity toward either. 2. When Adam and Eve chose to sin, sin thus entered the entire human race and man's nature became a fallen human nature. Both Adam and Eve fell, so their kids could only also have this same fallen nature. 3. Jesus was born not with a fallen human nature, but with a full human nature, just as Adam and Eve had at their initial creation.....He had the equal ability to sin or not sin just as Adam and Eve originally had.....and was tempted in every respect, yet did not sin. Amazing. 4. Because everyone after Adam and Eve were born with a fallen human nature, except Jesus, everyone has this sinful nature that inherently causes us to sin. It's my personal belief that we are sinners because we have the sinful nature which causes us to sin, not that we sin because we are sinners. You can't be something unless you have done it. You can't be a bricklayer unless you have actually laid bricks. You can't be a computer programmer unless you have programmed computers. You can't be a sinner unless you have sinned. With that logic (that others may disagree with) in mind, it seems to me that we can say we all have the sinful nature and are born with the sinful nature. Every baby is born with a sinful nature. But can we say that baby is a sinner before it has committed its first sin? I personally don't see how. Eventually enough time will pass and the baby will grow enough to consciously disobey and commit its first sin, at which point it will be an actual sinner. Before that point I don't see how we can say it is a sinner, but we can say it has a sinful nature. So if anyone is conscious enough to be asking or wondering whether or not they are a sinner, by that point, yes, they are sinner!