Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I can’t take it. I’m consumed with guilt and fear. I’m convinced the sisters will find out that I’m speaking against the LSM and I’m going to Suffer.

Sst, by your introduction it seems you left the LC 4 years ago. May I ask why you are concerned about these sisters? Are you still in a relationship with them?

But just as Igzy said, God doesn't tear down. However, He is an all consuming fire. A stone structure won't be effected by flames, but any wood, hay, or stubble present in the house and on the property will be. God is like a fire. If you allow Him, He will burn up everything that doesn't provide real structure in your walk.

God is light. No darkness can stand in His presence, including fear. Maybe there are certain things in your life casting a shadow and standing in between you and the Lord that needs addressing? Could it perhaps be through this yoke you are maintaining with these sisters?...

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Sst, by your introduction it seems you left the LC 4 years ago. May I ask why you are concerned about these sisters? Are you still in a relationship with them?

But just as Igzy said, God doesn't tear down. However, He is an all consuming fire. A stone structure won't be effected by flames, but any wood, hay, or stubble present in the house and on the property will be. God is like a fire. If you allow Him, He will burn up everything that doesn't provide real structure in your walk.

God is light. No darkness can stand in His presence, including fear. Maybe there are certain things in your life casting a shadow and standing in between you and the Lord that need addressing? Could it perhaps be through this yoke you are maintaining with these sisters?...

I’m ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only “way” I’ve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I’m ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only “way” I’ve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict

There's only one hope for you now. Yes, it's finally come down to this - You must trust God to rescue you!

Have you gone for a nice walk, or closed yourself "in the closet" and asked Him to shine light? If not, do it. If you have done this already, keep asking and know He will answer in His way and time.

[least]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict

Two issues here: -

(1) What is the basis (in the bible) for 'giving oneself to Christ AND the church' ?
Ephesians 5:3
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
In context: -
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Marriage and divorce is between a man and a woman.
Not between a christian and a certain 'church'. Regardless of whether a 'certain church' is the only way or not.
(In the old testament scripture, wife and divorce is mentioned in relation between God and Israel. Pls correct me if I'm wrong here.)

II Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Christ and the church is not married yet. It will happen as written in the book of Revelation. Revelation chapter 19.
(No mention of divorce happening between Christ and the church, correct me if I'm wrong).
-

[Cal]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I’m ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only “way” I’ve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict

This is natural because you've been conditioned to feel this way.

Actually, many LCers do not really know the Lord well. They don't realize how much their "walk" is just going with the program. Then when they try to operate outside of it, they don't really have the established relationship with God. So the transition is bumpy.

This is a real battle. I went through it. Just keep praying and keep going back to the word. I was serious about getting one of those little books that contain nothing but God's promises, and reading and praying them back to God every day.

But Jo S is right. YOU have to discover between YOU AND GOD just what HE is telling YOU to do, without the LR filtering or distortions. In other words, YOU have to ask, seek and knock until YOU YOURSELF break through to GOD. That's a relationship. Others can help, but eventually YOU have to find out what's REAL.

[HERn]

From Terry. "All in all it was far easier to keep quiet than it was to speak up."

The book " The Silence of Adam" might help us men who choose silence when when the Spirit is yearning for honesty and speaking the truth in love.

[Sons to Glory!]

This does bring up an interesting topic (which I've actually seen mentioned on this forum a couple times at least). That is, we are to give ourselves to Christ, but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? Good question! So I've been thinking about this, and found myself thinking, "Well of course we should give ourselves to the church. Christ in in His body, and He gave Himself for the church, right?

But as the song says, "In Christ alone I put my trust!" So as with anything, if we focus on that instead of Him, it is a distraction at the very least. For example, we want the "church life" so we focus on that, and that becomes something apart - a distraction - from Him. (And I think that's been said on here too before - hallelujah for the "Wisdom" in the body!)

So Christ gave Himself for the church. Therefore if we pursue Christ, Christ in us will do the giving to the church. But if I try to work all that up apart from Him, it's no good.

[least]

STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by least

STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.

Correct. I don't think there is specific scripture saying we should give ourselves to the church. If there is specific scripture to that effect, please point it out. (if there was specific scripture about that, I'm sure various ones would try to use it to their advantage.)

The point is, we are to give ourselves to Him.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by least

STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.

Least, I recommend doing a thorough exegetical study on "the Bride of Christ" and what that all entails.

The typical interpretation that came out of Catholic mysticism where the church = the bride is built solely upon Paul's hyperbole in Ephesians 5.

The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis.

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by Igzy

This is natural because you've been conditioned to feel this way.

Actually, many LCers do not really know the Lord well. They don't realize how much their "walk" is just going with the program. Then when they try to operate outside of it, they don't really have the established relationship with God. So the transition is bumpy.

This is a real battle. I went through it. Just keep praying and keep going back to the word. I was serious about getting one of those little books that contain nothing but God's promises, and reading and praying them back to God every day.

But Jo S is right. YOU have to discover between YOU AND GOD just what HE is telling YOU to do, without the LR filtering or distortions. In other words, YOU have to ask, seek and knock until YOU YOURSELF break through to GOD. That's a relationship. Others can help, but eventually YOU have to find out what's REAL.

It's so difficult to know what's 'real.' I so often find myself repeating Pilate's question, "What is truth?" What is it to believe? Where does our belief come from? How much responsibility do we truly have as man? The way that the BB's twisted octrine and scripture to make it sound like they were the final authority it audacious. Yet, I'm trapped. I'm caught up in the sticky web of lies and I can't distinguish what is true anymore. Where are you, Oh my God? Are you even real? Yes. I know He's real. Yes. I see Him in His word and in creation, but who am I? Why did God choose me? What is my reponsiblity in this relationship?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

It's so difficult to know what's 'real.' I so often find myself repeating Pilate's question, "What is truth?" What is it to believe? Where does our belief come from? How much responsibility do we truly have as man? The way that the BB's twisted octrine and scripture to make it sound like they were the final authority it audacious. Yet, I'm trapped. I'm caught up in the sticky web of lies and I can't distinguish what is true anymore. Where are you, Oh my God? Are you even real? Yes. I know He's real. Yes. I see Him in His word and in creation, but who am I? Why did God choose me? What is my reponsiblity in this relationship?

Why not ask the Lord to help you put all of the confusion and doubting away for just five minutes while you start reading the book of Mark in a version with zero footnotes. Read until you sense an emotion or a question and then talk to the Lord about what you read and the emotion you felt or the question you have. For example, let's say that while you were reading you felt love and appreciation for the Lord for His care for someone, you could tell the Lord that you feel love for Him for being such a compassionate Savior and ask Him to help you show compassion to someone, or to help you have faith in Him to see the compassion He shows to you. If you feel like He has not been showing compassion to you recently you can tell Him that also. Or you could ask Him a why or help me to understand question. Of course there are times to come to the Bible for serious study. If this doesn't work for you that's fine, it could be just my personality.

[stillseekingtruth]

Thank you. I find that when I read the bible (footnote free/not even the Recovery Version) I will pause to 'pray-read' and 'masticate' Jesus. It's not forced. It's not methodical, it's genuine. I believe that the Lord speaks to us, not audibly, but definittely through His word and through the saaints (not limited to the LR). Another thing I found is that there are differences between the translations and can give the text an entire different meaning. It makes it hard for me to understand what the author really meant. There is that verses, however, that the spirit teaches all things. Coming out of the LR I want to reject everything I've ever known, but I can't because some of it's true. A lot of it's true. But there is a lot that isn't.. Lord, help me take off my 'LR" glasses and understand the pure word. I'm learning that it's right to try to understand the bible. I don't have to just read it and accept it by pray reading and not use my mind. It's taking me forever!

[Nell]

When I was "coming out" and rejecting everything, the truth that remains is from God. Truth is truth because of God and not because of any man. In fact, whatever WL, or any other man, taught of the truth is perhaps their only redeeming quality and they deserve no credit. God was merciful to them.

"The rain falls on the just and the unjust."

Nell

[aron]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Another thing I found is that there are differences between the translations and can give the text an entire different meaning. It makes it hard for me to understand what the author really meant. There is that verses, however, that the spirit teaches all things. Coming out of the LR I want to reject everything I've ever known, but I can't because some of it's true. A lot of it's true. But there is a lot that isn't.. Lord, help me take off my 'LR" glasses and understand the pure word. I'm learning that it's right to try to understand the bible. I don't have to just read it and accept it by pray reading and not use my mind.

Some of us have been physically out for years and are only now starting to consider what the Bible actually says versus what the RecV had told us it said. We wanted it to say something that it didn't, because someone else wanted that. They transferred their unmet needs onto us, that's the LR in a nutshell.

So take heart because you're probably far ahead of me in the race, relatively speaking.

"One of the most dangerous things in religion is unchallenged assumptions" ~Carter Roenhof

[aron]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I’m ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only “way” I’ve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own.

It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict.

This kind of post is important to the discussion as it shows the dilemma people are in, trying to dis-entangled from the web that's the LC. It's a social web, family and friends, occasionally a financial web (housing, job) and a thought-web, with the subject unable to be "positive" toward non-LC Christian fellowship because they're "Babylonian" and God hates Babylon.

One knows something's wrong but can't figure out what, and concludes that it's actually oneself that failed, rather than the system that's ensnared them. This post is important because most get so discouraged at that point they don't even speak up. They just go crawl in a hole. This person spoke up, in the midst of the paranoia and confusion.

It took me years to dis-entangle. Here is my story.

I think every kid just wants someone to tell them that they're loved. I ended up "looking for love in all the wrong places" as the saying goes. Somehow I ended up in church, trying to turn my sorry life around. I knew I was "wrong", a sinner. But the pastor only shook my hand at the door, after the Sunday sermon was over.

Then I came into the LC and got 'love-bombed' and sucked into the vortex.

Eventually I left, and looking back I think there were two main reasons. First, I got in an snit with the FTTA 'trainer' about serving the poor. Jesus taught to give to those who can't repay you in this age, and your reward will be great in the age to come. But the LSM employee told us, "Don't waste your time". I rebuffed his speaking with verses, in front of the group. It clearly didn't go over too well... I knew this was deemed 'independent' but I felt like I was being 'dependent', on the Bible that is. But the experience marked me out, that I had some inner 'truth' or 'voice' and wouldn't let go.

Second, after all the shouting and fist pumping died down, after all the 'perfecting' and 'training' was done, my problems and phobias resurfaced, and the inner demons started crying out again. It got real bad, and I was troubled. I went to the 'brothers', one by one, and one by one they made it clear that they weren't interested in listening to my problems. So really, there was no love there. So I left.

But I had all the teachings in my head. I was fully programmed, believe me. I'd go into a Christian meeting and they'd talk about something, and I'd be like, "That's not God's economy." I knew nothing of Philip Lee, of Daystar and the Young Galileans and the Little Bankers and the New Move. Years later, I met someone from the LC and they said, "Titus Chu rebelled" and I looked it up on the internet and here I am.

But it took a lot of work. And I imagine there's a long way to go. One day at a time.

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

It's so difficult to know what's 'real.' I so often find myself repeating Pilate's question, "What is truth?" What is it to believe? Where does our belief come from? How much responsibility do we truly have as man? The way that the BB's twisted doctrine and scripture to make it sound like they were the final authority it's audacious.

Yet, I'm trapped. I'm caught up in the sticky web of lies and I can't distinguish what is true anymore. Where are you, Oh my God? Are you even real? Yes. I know He's real. Yes. I see Him in His word and in creation, but who am I? Why did God choose me? What is my reponsiblity in this relationship?

I saw a documentary clip the other day, about a guy on tv named "Mr Rogers", who ran children's variety show on PBS -- someone did an interview with this black guy from Youngstown Ohio, like 60 years old, successful and articulate adult man of the world. They're asking him about what Mr. Rogers meant back then, and he's talking about what it was like being 7 or 8 years old in Youngstown, and being in his house, and Mr Rogers came on the telly.

The guy says, "No man had ever told me that I was loved before", and he starts crying. This is an adult man, 50 years later... Mr Rogers used to tell each kid listening, that they mattered, that they were ok, that they were exactly what and who they were supposed to be. He liked them just the way they were. And this kid didn't have anyone telling him that. But Mr. Rogers' voice reached him. Or, God's love through Mr. Rogers' voice reached him. And even remembering back through time, he could still feel the love.

To me, that's what it's all about. Just find someone a little worse off than you, your proverbial neighbor. Listen to them. Pay attention. Show them that you care. Show them that they do indeed matter. When you do, God's love will meet you there. Yes, Jesus and the Bible is important. But without love it's nothing. And we all can love. If we show love, we get love. That was the core of Jesus' teaching. And everything he did, everything he was, demonstrated this.

The Father loved us so much that He sent His Son. I mean, that's it.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by aron

I saw a documentary clip the other day, about a guy on tv named "Mr Rogers", who ran children's variety show on PBS -- someone did an interview with this black guy from Youngstown Ohio, like 60 years old, successful and articulate adult man of the world. They're asking him about what Mr. Rogers meant back then, and he's talking about what it was like being 7 or 8 years old in Youngstown, and being in his house, and Mr Rogers came on the telly.

The guy says, "No man had ever told me that I was loved before", and he starts crying. This is an adult man, 50 years later... Mr Rogers used to tell each kid listening, that they mattered, that they were ok, that they were exactly what and who they were supposed to be. He liked them just the way they were. And this kid didn't have anyone telling him that. But Mr. Rogers' voice reached him. Or, God's love through Mr. Rogers' voice reached him. And even remembering back through time, he could still feel the love.

To me, that's what it's all about. Just find someone a little worse off than you, your proverbial neighbor. Listen to them. Pay attention. Show them that you care. Show them that they do indeed matter. When you do, God's love will meet you there. Yes, Jesus and the Bible is important. But without love it's nothing. And we all can love. If we show love, we get love. That was the core of Jesus' teaching. And everything he did, everything he was, demonstrated this.

The Father loved us so much that He sent His Son. I mean, that's it.

There it is - YES & AMEN!!!