Guilt is eating at me like a starving rat

[Cal]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I’m ashamed to admit I keep up appearances to maintain peace with my aunt and while I agree that the LC has many cult-like tendencies it is the only “way” I’ve known. I gave myself to Christ and the church (meaning the LC) to go to a denomination is worse than pursuing on my own. It’s like getting a divorce and not being allowed to ‘remarry’ because the ‘divorce’ wasn’t legit or hasn’t ‘gone through.’ Deep within I still hold onto that ridiculous belief that the LC is the only way. I don’t even know why. It’s truly an enigma to me- these thoughts that consume and contradict

This is natural because you've been conditioned to feel this way.

Actually, many LCers do not really know the Lord well. They don't realize how much their "walk" is just going with the program. Then when they try to operate outside of it, they don't really have the established relationship with God. So the transition is bumpy.

This is a real battle. I went through it. Just keep praying and keep going back to the word. I was serious about getting one of those little books that contain nothing but God's promises, and reading and praying them back to God every day.

But Jo S is right. YOU have to discover between YOU AND GOD just what HE is telling YOU to do, without the LR filtering or distortions. In other words, YOU have to ask, seek and knock until YOU YOURSELF break through to GOD. That's a relationship. Others can help, but eventually YOU have to find out what's REAL.

[HERn]

From Terry. "All in all it was far easier to keep quiet than it was to speak up."

The book " The Silence of Adam" might help us men who choose silence when when the Spirit is yearning for honesty and speaking the truth in love.

[Sons to Glory!]

This does bring up an interesting topic (which I've actually seen mentioned on this forum a couple times at least). That is, we are to give ourselves to Christ, but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? Good question! So I've been thinking about this, and found myself thinking, "Well of course we should give ourselves to the church. Christ in in His body, and He gave Himself for the church, right?

But as the song says, "In Christ alone I put my trust!" So as with anything, if we focus on that instead of Him, it is a distraction at the very least. For example, we want the "church life" so we focus on that, and that becomes something apart - a distraction - from Him. (And I think that's been said on here too before - hallelujah for the "Wisdom" in the body!)

So Christ gave Himself for the church. Therefore if we pursue Christ, Christ in us will do the giving to the church. But if I try to work all that up apart from Him, it's no good.

[least]

STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by least

STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.

Correct. I don't think there is specific scripture saying we should give ourselves to the church. If there is specific scripture to that effect, please point it out. (if there was specific scripture about that, I'm sure various ones would try to use it to their advantage.)

The point is, we are to give ourselves to Him.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by least

STG,
"but where does it say we should give ourselves to the church? "

We ARE the church.

Christ gave himself to the church. Jesus died and resurrected. Ascended to the Father and made Lord and Christ. God gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him (the son) shall not perish but have everlasting life.
All the believers is the one body, the church, the body of Christ, the one new man, the bride of the Lamb of God.
Christ loves his own body, he nourishes and cherishes her.
The church is the bride. The bride is waiting for the bridegroom, not giving herself to herself.
A member of the body (the church) is already in the body; a part of the body does not marry (or divorce) the body.

Least, I recommend doing a thorough exegetical study on "the Bride of Christ" and what that all entails.

The typical interpretation that came out of Catholic mysticism where the church = the bride is built solely upon Paul's hyperbole in Ephesians 5.

The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis.

[least]

Hi Jo S
"The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis."

If you are happy to share what you've learnt about the 'bride' in the NT bible, I'll like to know about it. If you would post on this topic please start a new thread so that we don't hijack stillseekingtruth's thread.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by least

Hi Jo S
"The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis."

If you are happy to share what you've learnt about the 'bride' in the NT bible, I'll like to know about it. If you would post on this topic please start a new thread so that we don't hijack stillseekingtruth's thread.

Least, I addressed this topic HERE Starting at post #28.

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Least, I recommend doing a thorough exegetical study on "the Bride of Christ" and what that all entails.

The typical interpretation that came out of Catholic mysticism where the church = the bride is built solely upon Paul's hyperbole in Ephesians 5.

The church was never explicitly called the bride in scripture. Since I've been on this topic as of late, this is another example of biblical eisegesis.

Wait! What? The church isn't the bride of Christ? We're not going to marry Him? Whoa...whoa...whoa....Are you to tell me then that we don't 'take a tour of the tabernacle' everyday? Is Christ really a type of the offerings? My little dinghy is shaking again and I'm about to get swept over by waves of frustration.

My predicament is that I read the scripute, but I understand it to be a puzzle filled with types and figures and a 'heavenly language' that I must interpret through the spirit. It says what it says, but what does it mean? What is the connotation of the passsages?
Oy Here I go again....down down down

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by Igzy

This is natural because you've been conditioned to feel this way.

Actually, many LCers do not really know the Lord well. They don't realize how much their "walk" is just going with the program. Then when they try to operate outside of it, they don't really have the established relationship with God. So the transition is bumpy.

This is a real battle. I went through it. Just keep praying and keep going back to the word. I was serious about getting one of those little books that contain nothing but God's promises, and reading and praying them back to God every day.

But Jo S is right. YOU have to discover between YOU AND GOD just what HE is telling YOU to do, without the LR filtering or distortions. In other words, YOU have to ask, seek and knock until YOU YOURSELF break through to GOD. That's a relationship. Others can help, but eventually YOU have to find out what's REAL.

It's so difficult to know what's 'real.' I so often find myself repeating Pilate's question, "What is truth?" What is it to believe? Where does our belief come from? How much responsibility do we truly have as man? The way that the BB's twisted octrine and scripture to make it sound like they were the final authority it audacious. Yet, I'm trapped. I'm caught up in the sticky web of lies and I can't distinguish what is true anymore. Where are you, Oh my God? Are you even real? Yes. I know He's real. Yes. I see Him in His word and in creation, but who am I? Why did God choose me? What is my reponsiblity in this relationship?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

It's so difficult to know what's 'real.' I so often find myself repeating Pilate's question, "What is truth?" What is it to believe? Where does our belief come from? How much responsibility do we truly have as man? The way that the BB's twisted octrine and scripture to make it sound like they were the final authority it audacious. Yet, I'm trapped. I'm caught up in the sticky web of lies and I can't distinguish what is true anymore. Where are you, Oh my God? Are you even real? Yes. I know He's real. Yes. I see Him in His word and in creation, but who am I? Why did God choose me? What is my reponsiblity in this relationship?

Why not ask the Lord to help you put all of the confusion and doubting away for just five minutes while you start reading the book of Mark in a version with zero footnotes. Read until you sense an emotion or a question and then talk to the Lord about what you read and the emotion you felt or the question you have. For example, let's say that while you were reading you felt love and appreciation for the Lord for His care for someone, you could tell the Lord that you feel love for Him for being such a compassionate Savior and ask Him to help you show compassion to someone, or to help you have faith in Him to see the compassion He shows to you. If you feel like He has not been showing compassion to you recently you can tell Him that also. Or you could ask Him a why or help me to understand question. Of course there are times to come to the Bible for serious study. If this doesn't work for you that's fine, it could be just my personality.

[stillseekingtruth]

Thank you. I find that when I read the bible (footnote free/not even the Recovery Version) I will pause to 'pray-read' and 'masticate' Jesus. It's not forced. It's not methodical, it's genuine. I believe that the Lord speaks to us, not audibly, but definittely through His word and through the saaints (not limited to the LR). Another thing I found is that there are differences between the translations and can give the text an entire different meaning. It makes it hard for me to understand what the author really meant. There is that verses, however, that the spirit teaches all things. Coming out of the LR I want to reject everything I've ever known, but I can't because some of it's true. A lot of it's true. But there is a lot that isn't.. Lord, help me take off my 'LR" glasses and understand the pure word. I'm learning that it's right to try to understand the bible. I don't have to just read it and accept it by pray reading and not use my mind. It's taking me forever!

[Nell]

When I was "coming out" and rejecting everything, the truth that remains is from God. Truth is truth because of God and not because of any man. In fact, whatever WL, or any other man, taught of the truth is perhaps their only redeeming quality and they deserve no credit. God was merciful to them.

"The rain falls on the just and the unjust."

Nell

[stillseekingtruth]

This is so good. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but God's word will endure forever!

[aron]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

Another thing I found is that there are differences between the translations and can give the text an entire different meaning. It makes it hard for me to understand what the author really meant. There is that verses, however, that the spirit teaches all things. Coming out of the LR I want to reject everything I've ever known, but I can't because some of it's true. A lot of it's true. But there is a lot that isn't.. Lord, help me take off my 'LR" glasses and understand the pure word. I'm learning that it's right to try to understand the bible. I don't have to just read it and accept it by pray reading and not use my mind.

Some of us have been physically out for years and are only now starting to consider what the Bible actually says versus what the RecV had told us it said. We wanted it to say something that it didn't, because someone else wanted that. They transferred their unmet needs onto us, that's the LR in a nutshell.

So take heart because you're probably far ahead of me in the race, relatively speaking.

"One of the most dangerous things in religion is unchallenged assumptions" ~Carter Roenhof

[stillseekingtruth]

Originally Posted by aron

Some of us have been physically out for years and are only now starting to consider what the Bible actually says versus what the RecV had told us it said. We wanted it to say something that it didn't, because someone else wanted that. They transferred their unmet needs onto us, that's the LR in a nutshell.

So take heart because you're probably far ahead of me in the race, relatively speaking.

"One of the most dangerous things in religion is unchallenged assumptions" ~Carter Roenhof

I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.

SST,

You are right where God wants you. His timing is perfect.

You WERE wretched. Not anymore. Your Father owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Consider the Lillie’s of the field. They toil not, neither do they spin. But Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these! You are a child of the King. Don’t let anybody push you around! Your Daddy is bigger than they are! (I think that might be a verse...??)

Make a list of what you “don’t get” and put it aside. Continue in the way. Grow at his pace on his schedule. One day you will look back at this time and realize that He has either answered your questions or erased them. You don’t need to make up for lost time. Talk to Him. Tell Him you love him. Thank Him for rescuing you. Take a deep breath. What a God we have! Who could have masterfully arranged our days in such a way but Him?

Nell

[aron]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I dont know how far ahead I am... there is still so much I don't get.

Those who wrote scripture, and their designated readers, didn't have degrees in theology, but they followed common - sense laws of logic, what we'd call conventional wisdom. To be sure there was mystery but even this did not depart from the trail of reason. Sometimes it just takes a while for our mind to catch up.

The danger is to think the scripture is about you.

"He shall protect you; and will allow no harm to befall you; and will set His angels over you to watch you, and lift you in their hands lest you stumble and strike your foot on a stone". The "He" is the Father, and the "you" is Jesus the Obedient Son. The NT pattern of textual reception is plain. It is not so esoteric.

The danger is to attempt to transpose our experiences and expectations on scripture, apart from Christ. Then we err in thinking "we" are the fulfillment, "our" enjoyment becomes our measuring-stick. It is a mirage. The RecV footnote would say, "This is the NT believer enjoying grace on the local church ground". Uh, no. Sorry.

The other error is to dismiss scripture. The psalmist said, "You rescued me because You delighted in me" (18:19). WL wrote "God did not delight in David the sinner", but Peter had already solved that puzzle in his exegesis on Psalm 16 - it was about Jesus, not David.

So don't get discouraged thinking that you can't make it. Jesus already worked the works of God. Your work is to believe in him. ~John 4:34; 5:19,36; 10:32,37 cf John 6:38 & 6:28,29.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.

I'll add my input here too . . . For me, the start of really seeing what was going on in the Bible was when I began to truly see God's love for us. Everything before that was sort of like reading the preface to a book. We can get some knowledge about God and His purpose from reading the word and fellowship, others sharing, etc. But I believe it's only when He begins to reveal His heart of love towards us that things start to make sense and come alive.

In the Recovery you hear a lot about His purpose as being the primary motivation - but what's behind His purpose is His amazing love! If you hear about His purpose without having some concept of His love (which He has to show), then you may think God will have His purpose and if I stand in His way He will just crush me without thinking twice. This is what I thought and this is an error. His purpose is to save us to the uttermost and bring us into sweet union and fellowship with Him. Yes, He wants to bring many sons into glory! This is His heart of love towards all of mankind, and is the key to understanding what He's showing us in His word. Never forget that.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by stillseekingtruth

I dont know how far ahead I am. Reading Matthew today made me see how wretched I am, but there is still so much I don't get.

God does not see you wretched. Remember. What you are reading in Matthew is probably before Jesus shed His Blood on the cross for us all. He is also speaking to the Jews.
Today He sees you as His beloved child growing up in Christ Jesus. He sees the Blood of Jesus in you and knows He has wiped away all your sins. And He does not remember your sins. He is making all things new in your life.

Tell Him to open your eyes to see Jesus clearly. Tell Him to open your ears to hear His Voice, the Holy Spirit clearly. And to open Your heart to receive His Truth with a grateful heart.

Meditate on Revelation 12:10 -12
Now is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God.
The accuser of our brethren has been cast down, who accuses us before our God Day and night, but we/ I have overcome him by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB and by the Word of our/my testimony,

Prayer: Thank You dear Jesus for Your Precious Blood has has put the devil in his place, under my feet where l can stomp on him with the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of the Most High God.

Satan, look at the Blood of Jesus in me and flee! For the Blood of Jesus has defeated you and set me free from your clutches,
Thank You Lord Jesus Christ!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

Some of us have been physically out for years and are only now starting to consider what the Bible actually says versus what the RecV had told us it said. We wanted it to say something that it didn't, because someone else wanted that. They transferred their unmet needs onto us, that's the LR in a nutshell.

So take heart because you're probably far ahead of me in the race, relatively speaking.

"One of the most dangerous things in religion is unchallenged assumptions" ~Carter Roenhof

You should spend some time in Pentecostal circles. They see Tongues everywhere in the Bible. If you have trouble with the Lee's assumptions, you would go crazy there.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You should spend some time in Pentecostal circles. They see Tongues everywhere in the Bible. If you have trouble with the Lee's assumptions, you would go crazy there.

NO KIDDING!!!
I have been all around the Christian community “churches”. I wanted to believe speaking in tongues was from the Lord. It it only filled my thoughts with confusion. And God is not the God of confusion. They believe you can lose your salvation. Scripture disproves it, But we are not given license to sin. The Blood of Jesus has washed away all our sins. If we willfully sin, we can lose rewards at the judgement seat of Christ but not our eternal salvation.