Definition of "The Lord´s Recovery"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Raptor

The Recovery is a religious organization centered around the person and teachings of Witness Lee composed of a mixture of scriptural and enlightening teachings and practices about the christian faith, the purpose of human life and the overall meaning of the Bible, mixed with unscriptural and cultish teachings and practices that have the potential to cause severe spiritual, psychological, physical, and financial damage to its members.

Not sure what my own definition is yet, but I found this one more than interesting. At first I was reminded of James' words (Chap 3):

But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. with it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. Does a fountain send out from the same opening both fresh and bitter water?

It seems quite obvious that every curse issued from the LSM podiums has come true concerning them. They have been cursed with all the curses they spoke about others. Is not the Recovery, like Judaism of old, filled with unresolvable contradictions?

When I left the LC, and found this forum, a nagging question haunted me: "How could something so good become so bad?" Cursing others was a huge contributor. How they need the book of James!

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

When I left the LC, and found this forum, a nagging question haunted me: "How could something so good become so bad?"

When I read the originating post definition, my mind went to a similar place. I do believe that early on there was a real move of God with the LC.

As I visit other groups, like this weekend, I am reminded that most still do not have any knowledge of various things those in the LC saw early on - these include: the work of the indwelling Christ; our human spirit that is subject to us (and indwelt by Him); and a seeing of the whole clergy/laity for what it is and the immense benefit of practicing open meetings.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

When I read the originating post definition, my mind went to a similar place. I do believe that early on there was a real move of God with the LC.

The move of God, the so-called "Jesus People Movement" of the late 60's and early 70's, was definitely a real move of God's Spirit in the USA. It was never confined to the Recovery. It was far bigger than that. All Christians were affected in some way. And yes the Recovery benefited from God's move.

The greatest hoax ever inflicted upon the Recovery was that God's move was limited to them, and that God's move was due to Lee's ministry.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The move of God, the so-called "Jesus People Movement" of the late 60's and early 70's, was definitely a real move of God's Spirit in the USA. It was never confined to the Recovery. It was far bigger than that. All Christians were affected in some way. And yes the Recovery benefited from God's move.

The greatest hoax ever inflicted upon the Recovery was that God's move was limited to them, and that God's move was due to Lee's ministry.

Yes, agreed!

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

When I read the originating post definition, my mind went to a similar place. I do believe that early on there was a real move of God with the LC.

Originally Posted by Ohio

When I left the LC, and found this forum, a nagging question haunted me: "How could something so good become so bad?"

StG, I assume you're referring to my post. So I'll respond and leave with this;

I see others on the board struggling with the same question that Ohio posed; "How could something so good become so bad?".

Watchman Nee's vision that gave birth to this movement through the doctrine or ground of locality, in my view, wasn't based on God's truth.

If it's true that the sole identity of the Lord's Recovery was founded upon and rooted in a lie, how could this movement ever be considered to have been something good?

But if you maintain your position that the Lord's Recovery was good in the beginning, you would have to agree with Nee's vision. And since God doesn't lie or contradict His Word, in order for the LC's to have been a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, God too would have had to agree that all Christians need to gather in one location within every city under one minister. Yet what I see in God's revelation is Jesus Christ gathering his entire church into only one city, the New Jerusalem.

You just can't have it both ways.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Jo S

StG, I assume you're referring to my post. So I'll respond and leave with this;

I see others on the board struggling with the same question that Ohio posed; "How could something so good become so bad?".

Watchman Nee's vision that gave birth to this movement through the doctrine or ground of locality, in my view, wasn't based on God's truth.

If it's true that the sole identity of the Lord's Recovery was founded upon and rooted in a lie, how could this movement ever be considered to have been something good?

But if you maintain your position that the Lord's Recovery was good in the beginning, you would have to agree with Nee's vision. And since God doesn't lie or contradict His Word, in order for the LC's to have been a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, God too would have had to agree that all Christians need to gather in one location within every city under one minister. Yet what I see in God's revelation is Jesus Christ gathering his entire church into only one city, the New Jerusalem.

You just can't have it both ways.

know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel: 3*Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

The sins of WL, PL, and others does not nullify God’s grace.

7What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened: 8according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this very day. 9And David saith,
Let their table be made a snare, and a trap,
And a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:
10
Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see,
And bow thou down their back always.

You are saying that the Lord’s Recovery was built upon a faulty doctrine, I would say that the Lord’s Recovery was built upon the seeking after the true church. This is the path that all who arrive at the church in Philadelphia must take. As it says “you shall go no more out”. Just because the Local church’s table has been made a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a recompense, that does not mean it wasn’t part of God’s plan so that the elect could arrive at Philadelphia.

The lesson I have taken away from my time in the LC is to glory in the Lord Jesus. Yes they have stumbled, but God has no intent that they fall. They are born again children of God, Jesus is the savior. We stand by faith, don’t be high minded but fear. Their disobedience is based on elevating a man to the same level as Jesus. Peter made the same error on the mount of transfiguration. God has shut up all unto disobedience that He might have mercy on all.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The sins of WL, PL, and others does not nullify God’s grace.

Well put - along with all else you conveyed in that post!

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel: 3*Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

The sins of WL, PL, and others does not nullify God’s grace.

ZNP, they didn't bow their knee to Baal. Those is the Lord's Recovery have no choice if they choose to stay. They have to bow their knee to Nee's vision. God's grace requires you at least resist evil...

I hesitate going to scripture when trying to argue points concerning the Lord's Recovery because when I do, I feel it only validates the movement but if you want to go to scripture, look at 2 John 1:9-11.

"Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.

If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds. "

The Local Churches teach a false gospel and a false Christ. This isn't about warts. Warts don't kill but cancer does and with teachings like "lose your soul-life" and "get out of your mind", these are veiled attacks on a person's very identity and soul. They're carcinogens that are imbedded in Local Church doctrine so no matter who the leaders are or the locality you're a part of.. you can't escape them. If you stay long enough, eventually you will get sick.

Whether one wants to admit it or not, I believe all ex-members that come out of the LC's come out traumatized. Some make no bones about their pain, while others are better at hiding it in denial. While it's necessary as a coping mechanism, denial long term starts to eat away at your soul and when it does you become that pain and it then begins to own you. It's why many of you, even though you physically left, you're still stuck in a Local Church bubble.

Unfortunately all the thought reform that's a result of false doctrine overshadows any remnants of Christianity that may be apparent on the surface of the Lord's Recovery. At what point or how many lies does it take to uncover in their teachings to finally say to yourself that what you were a part of wasn't biblical Christianity at all?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Jo S

StG, I assume you're referring to my post. So I'll respond and leave with this;

I see others on the board struggling with the same question that Ohio posed; "How could something so good become so bad?".

Watchman Nee's vision that gave birth to this movement through the doctrine or ground of locality, in my view, wasn't based on God's truth.

If it's true that the sole identity of the Lord's Recovery was founded upon and rooted in a lie, how could this movement ever be considered to have been something good?

But if you maintain your position that the Lord's Recovery was good in the beginning, you would have to agree with Nee's vision. And since God doesn't lie or contradict His Word, in order for the LC's to have been a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, God too would have had to agree that all Christians need to gather in one location within every city under one minister. Yet what I see in God's revelation is Jesus Christ gathering his entire church into only one city, the New Jerusalem.

You just can't have it both ways.

Thanks for the response, Jo. I can certainly see how you think that! However, I also think it may be a false dilemma . . . This is because we all have warts, and God works through us-ins - people with warts. There is no perfect, without error move of God, because is it done through us! But glory to God, what is truly amazing is He still gets it done somehow!

In reading a bit about church history, it is filled with those clearly in error. But God starts small, with the imperfect ones. Think about the 12 disciples - why did He chose this rag-tag bunch to start His worldwide ministry through? God chooses the foolish, the low, the motley crew, to confound the thinking of the supposedly wise.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Cursing others was a huge contributor. How they need the book of James!

There's no doubt in my mind that the epithets we sat under - "Poor, poor Christianity... too poor!" - affected our ability to grapple with the darkness that followed. We sat there and passively watched Witness Lee burn our bridges of escape.

Years later, looking back, I can begin to sense the cleverness and the keeping power of his system. It's quite impressive, really. We heard serial logical contradictions and kept going. We allowed the Bible to be suborned and dismissed, and we kept on. We saw unrighteousness and we continued. Our consciences protested, and still we kept going. Amazing, really.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

There's no doubt in my mind that the epithets we sat under - "Poor, poor Christianity... too poor!" - affected our ability to grapple with the darkness that followed. We sat there and passively watched Witness Lee burn our bridges of escape.

Years later, looking back, I can begin to sense the cleverness and the keeping power of his system. It's quite impressive, really. We heard serial logical contradictions and kept going. We allowed the Bible to be suborned and dismissed, and we kept on. We saw unrighteousness and we continued. Our consciences protested, and still we kept going. Amazing, really.

I trusted the elders over me, those who supposedly "watched over my soul, and will give an account." (Heb 13.17)