Definition of "The Lord´s Recovery"

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Jo S

StG, I assume you're referring to my post. So I'll respond and leave with this;

I see others on the board struggling with the same question that Ohio posed; "How could something so good become so bad?".

Watchman Nee's vision that gave birth to this movement through the doctrine or ground of locality, in my view, wasn't based on God's truth.

If it's true that the sole identity of the Lord's Recovery was founded upon and rooted in a lie, how could this movement ever be considered to have been something good?

But if you maintain your position that the Lord's Recovery was good in the beginning, you would have to agree with Nee's vision. And since God doesn't lie or contradict His Word, in order for the LC's to have been a genuine move of the Holy Spirit, God too would have had to agree that all Christians need to gather in one location within every city under one minister. Yet what I see in God's revelation is Jesus Christ gathering his entire church into only one city, the New Jerusalem.

You just can't have it both ways.

know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel: 3*Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

The sins of WL, PL, and others does not nullify God’s grace.

7What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened: 8according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this very day. 9And David saith,
Let their table be made a snare, and a trap,
And a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:
10
Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see,
And bow thou down their back always.

You are saying that the Lord’s Recovery was built upon a faulty doctrine, I would say that the Lord’s Recovery was built upon the seeking after the true church. This is the path that all who arrive at the church in Philadelphia must take. As it says “you shall go no more out”. Just because the Local church’s table has been made a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a recompense, that does not mean it wasn’t part of God’s plan so that the elect could arrive at Philadelphia.

The lesson I have taken away from my time in the LC is to glory in the Lord Jesus. Yes they have stumbled, but God has no intent that they fall. They are born again children of God, Jesus is the savior. We stand by faith, don’t be high minded but fear. Their disobedience is based on elevating a man to the same level as Jesus. Peter made the same error on the mount of transfiguration. God has shut up all unto disobedience that He might have mercy on all.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

The sins of WL, PL, and others does not nullify God’s grace.

Well put - along with all else you conveyed in that post!

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel: 3*Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have left for myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

The sins of WL, PL, and others does not nullify God’s grace.

ZNP, they didn't bow their knee to Baal. Those is the Lord's Recovery have no choice if they choose to stay. They have to bow their knee to Nee's vision. God's grace requires you at least resist evil...

I hesitate going to scripture when trying to argue points concerning the Lord's Recovery because when I do, I feel it only validates the movement but if you want to go to scripture, look at 2 John 1:9-11.

"Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.

If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds. "

The Local Churches teach a false gospel and a false Christ. This isn't about warts. Warts don't kill but cancer does and with teachings like "lose your soul-life" and "get out of your mind", these are veiled attacks on a person's very identity and soul. They're carcinogens that are imbedded in Local Church doctrine so no matter who the leaders are or the locality you're a part of.. you can't escape them. If you stay long enough, eventually you will get sick.

Whether one wants to admit it or not, I believe all ex-members that come out of the LC's come out traumatized. Some make no bones about their pain, while others are better at hiding it in denial. While it's necessary as a coping mechanism, denial long term starts to eat away at your soul and when it does you become that pain and it then begins to own you. It's why many of you, even though you physically left, you're still stuck in a Local Church bubble.

Unfortunately all the thought reform that's a result of false doctrine overshadows any remnants of Christianity that may be apparent on the surface of the Lord's Recovery. At what point or how many lies does it take to uncover in their teachings to finally say to yourself that what you were a part of wasn't biblical Christianity at all?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Jo S

ZNP, they didn't bow their knee to Baal. Those is the Lord's Recovery have no choice if they choose to stay. They have to bow their knee to Nee's vision. God's grace requires you at least resist evil...

I was not required to bow my knees to any doctrine, or any teacher. I stated my belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior and I was baptized into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

That said, I equate bowing the knee to Baal with bowing the knee to money. There is quite a bit that has been brought out in numerous threads whether it is Daystar, Training, PL, Standing orders, LSM, etc. that suggests those taking the lead in the LC have in fact bowed the knee to money.

Originally Posted by Jo S

I hesitate going to scripture when trying to argue points concerning the Lord's Recovery because when I do, I feel it only validates the movement but if you want to go to scripture, look at 2 John 1:9-11.

"Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.

If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds. "

The Local Churches teach a false gospel and a false Christ. This isn't about warts, it's about cancer. Warts don't kill but cancer does and with teachings like "losing your soul-life" and "getting out of your mind" these are veiled attacks on a person's very identity and soul. They're types of carcinogens that are imbedded in Local Church doctrine so no matter who the leaders are or the locality you're a part of.. you can't escape them. If you stay long enough, eventually you will get sick.

You are painting with a very broad brush. The gospel I heard did not mention losing the soul life, I didn't learn about that until I read the book of Galatians. As for getting out of your mind I did not hear that until we were studying Rom. 8. If you are going to claim that every single teaching that you disagree with is a carcinogen then you have surely been well trained by WL. I do not assume that an erroneous understanding of a verse in the Bible is proof that you are not following the Lord. The NT says "if in anything you are otherwise minded the Spirit will show you that".

Originally Posted by Jo S

Whether one wants to admit it or not, I believe all ex-members that come out of the LC's come out traumatized. Some make no bones about their pain, while others are better at hiding it in denial. While it's necessary as a coping mechanism when facing trauma, denial long term starts to eat away at your soul and when it does you become that pain and it then begins to own you. It's why many of you, even though you physically left, you're still stuck in a Local Church bubble.

Well I believe that if we are to follow the Lord we must take up our cross. Can't imagine a more traumatizing experience than the cross of Christ. I am not in denial, try reading my testimonies.

Originally Posted by Jo S

Unfortunately all the thought reform that's a result of false doctrine overshadows any remnants of Christianity that be apparent on the surface of the Lord's Recovery. At what point or how many lies does it take to uncover in their teachings to finally say to yourself that what you were a part of wasn't biblical Christianity at all?

All it takes is one word from the Lord. I left in 1998. I was there from 1978 to 1998. My 20 years were filled with experiences of the Lord beginning with His leading me to the group and ending with His leading me out.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I was not required to bow my knees to any doctrine, or any teacher. I stated my belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior and I was baptized into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I love ZNP's attitude! God's in charge. I'm with him. If you don't like it that's your problem.

That's the antidote to the LR mentality. Let the chips fall where they may.

[aron]

I can't see how anyone could sit under W. Lee's excoriations of Christianity and not come away untraumatized. Imagine sitting there passively while your spiritual family is denigrated. I was there and it sucked. But I was sold out, wrecked, ruined. But finally I had enough and left. (And I knew those who came back because they didn't know where else to go. Like an abused wife returning home).

ZNP's experience may prove the exception not the rule. How many have called out EM publicly, to his face, over his craven actions with PL? Not many I daresay.