The Mormon Church is "The Church"?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

To those in "The Church," whether the Mormon "The Church," The Recovery "The Church," or actually, all the other "The Churches," I have this to say :

Ye shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. Be not afraid to be as the wind. - John 8:32 & 3:8

awareness,

I get the truth part... but the wind part appears to be a misappropriation of 3:8.

What do you mean exactly and how does this verse add validation to your meaning?

Drake

[awareness]

Thanks for asking. I think this sums it up :

The wind blows where it wishes . . . So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

Thanks for asking. I think this sums it up :

The wind blows where it wishes . . . So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

I see.... but how to you apply its meaning? I'm not making the connection.

A description of a regenerated person born of the Spirit is not a call "to be as the wind".

Please elaborate what you are trying to say in layman's terms.

Thanks
Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

I see.... but how to you apply its meaning? I'm not making the connection.

A description of a regenerated person born of the Spirit is not a call "to be as the wind".

Please elaborate what you are trying to say in layman's terms.

Thanks
Drake

I guess that verse can be confusing. Is a person born of the Spirit like the wind? Jesus says the wind blows where it wishes? Is that what he means about the person born of the Spirit?

If we add truth shall set you free, it certainly sounds like it.

At any rate, I doubt it means to be joined to "The Church," Mormonism, Local-Churchism, or otherwise.

That aside, what do you think the verse means?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

I guess that verse can be confusing. Is a person born of the Spirit like the wind? Jesus says the wind blows where it wishes? Is that what he means about the person born of the Spirit?

If we add truth shall set you free, it certainly sounds like it.

At any rate, I doubt it means to be joined to "The Church," Mormonism, Local-Churchism, or otherwise.

That aside, what do you think the verse means?

awareness,

I think it means that a person who is born of the Spirit, that is regenerated, is like the wind... in that, it is a bit hard to put your finger on it, but when you hear its sound, or watch trees sway in its wake, or it blows your toupee off then you know its there.... so it is with a regenerated person, you may not completely understand what happened to them and its not fully recognizable but it is a fact.. just like the wind. The context appears to support that interpretation.

Thanks
Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

awareness,

I think it means that a person who is born of the Spirit, that is regenerated, is like the wind... in that, it is a bit hard to put your finger on it, but when you hear its sound, or watch trees sway in its wake, or it blows your toupee off then you know its there.... so it is with a regenerated person, you may not completely understand what happened to them and its not fully recognizable but it is a fact.. just like the wind. The context appears to support that interpretation.

Thanks
Drake

So to you the verse and context means that someone born of the Spirit is as real as the wind?

Interesting. Thanks.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

So to you the verse and context means that someone born of the Spirit is as real as the wind?

Interesting. Thanks.

Not exactly.

All people are real.. obviously... but this verse is not talking about how real they are.... that would be over simplistic...rather, a regenerated person is different and their reality is not something you can always put your finger on. The "real" in the case of a regenerated person is like the wind... can't see it but you know something is there because you can hear it or see its effect. So, its not a statement that people born of the Spirit are real like all people are, believer and unbeliever alike. Rather, this is specifically about regenerated people and the reality of their regeneration.

That the Lord used sound as the evidence of the wind may have something to do with the testimony of He and his disciples mentioned in V11. They were making a sound and Nicodemus recognized it but could not define it exactly... so he seeks Jesus out to find out more and the Lord appears to be saying to Nicodemus something like ... we speak, you recognize something that you could not precisely define, and what you heard from us is mysterious just like the wind, you're not sure where it came from or where it is going but it is a fact and a reality.

Something like that.

Hope that helps... but in any case, I still don't see how it has anything to do with your initial counsel. Got the truth will set you free... but still don't understand how you meant "be as the wind" when applied to Christians in the local churches.... even using a different definition of what the "wind" is ... that may be because I don't know what your definition if "wind" is.

Feel free to clarify.

Drake

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by awareness

I guess that verse can be confusing. Is a person born of the Spirit like the wind? Jesus says the wind blows where it wishes? Is that what he means about the person born of the Spirit?

If we add truth shall set you free, it certainly sounds like it.

At any rate, I doubt it means to be joined to "The Church," Mormonism, Local-Churchism, or otherwise.

That aside, what do you think the verse means?

I agree, Awareness...it has to do with our freedom in Christ Jesus....the LC or any one of 'The Church' churches are prisons, doctrinal prisons. But He has set us free in reality....we will blow or go wherever we will....and we are free, regenerated, redeemed by our faith in Jesus finished work, no assembly,no man, has the right to burden us with 'another' gospel, 'another' spirit....we are not constrained to the lie! Set free in our Lord we are....He prepared the way for us....He set good works for us to simply walk in them...He goes before us...He guards us from behind...He even opens shut gates and doors for His gospel to go forth....we are free, and the LC and others who perpetuate falsehoods cannot hold us responsible to doctrine of man....it makes me hoppin mad to see what they teach as truth really is 'spying out our freedom'....