Bible Answer Man Converts to Eastern Orthodox!

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Drake

Are you really going to dispute that the common belief in Christianity is when you die you go to heaven and will live there forever?

First of all, I apologize for being belligerent. You're right, it doesn't help. So let me take a couple of deep breaths here....ah, that's better.

Again...once again Drake...Please explain how you know so much about "the common belief in Christianity." How many Christian churches (who could be considered at least nominally evangelical/orthodox) have you visited over the past few years? We already know that you are not the typical Local Churcher...you know that your hair won't catch on fire when you visit a non-Local Church fellowship...so take a few minutes and tell us about what is preached and taught in these churches.

Ok, another couple of deep breaths....

Since Mr. E., refuses to answer this most salient question, I'll try you.

Please explain to us about the two lives and two natures of God. Actually you really only need to tell us about the life and nature of God that is separate from his being, from his Godhead (that is, the life and nature that we become apart from his being and Godhead) It would be super cool if you could use some verses in the New Testament to clarify.

If the church life you describe was my experience then I probably would have left too. It’s not. Once you accept that your blood pressure will become more manageable.

Well Drake you have spent a lot of time telling us what was NOT your experience, but not very much about what was your experience. Of course one's experience is by definition subjective. I have almost never spoke about my personal experience, which was, for the most part, positive. I find it much more profitable for all concerned to stick to the concrete - the teachings of Witness Lee, the practices either established or promoted by Lee and the history of the LC movement...the good, the bad and the ugly.

For example, your "experience" may not have included running around a college campus and proclaiming "I'm a baby god!" But the fact is that is exactly what happened. Your experience may not have included "we're Witness Lee tape recorders!" But the fact is that is exactly what happened. Your experience may not have included telling some unbeliever that if he "calls Oh, Lord Jesus" several times he will be saved. But the fact is that is exactly what happened. I was in Orange County California back in the day when this nonsense happened on a regular basis. This was not thousands of miles away from Anaheim, away from the eyes and ears of Witness Lee. In fact, Lee promoted these kind of aberrational teachings.

So you can forget about subjective experience. It is actually not relevant to the facts of history. You have your experience. I have mine. But none of that changes what Witness Lee taught and the practices he promoted. Our personal experience doesn't change all the sordid history of promoting evil men, and placing innocent and vulnerable women in harms way. Our personal experience doesn't change the damage done to family relationships, marriages and young people.

So why do I bring all this up (again)? I bring it up because Witness Lee and his teachings and the practices he established and/or promoted are still being extolled as "God's move on earth" and "THE Lord's Recovery". Lee, to this very day, is still being extolled and promoted as "The One Minister with the One Ministry for The Age". To this very day, Lee is being extolled and promoted as the only person on earth who spoke as God's oracle. And the worse thing is that these are not "optional" beliefs for LC members. Those who disagree are shunned at best, and usually made so uncomfortable they simply disappear. Again, your experience, my experience is not relevant to the facts.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Please explain to us about the two lives and two natures of God. Actually you really only need to tell us about the life and nature of God that is separate from his being, from his Godhead (that is, the life and nature that we become apart from his being and Godhead) It would be super cool if you could use some verses in the New Testament to clarify.

Hi UntoHim,

I have been out of pocket since you posted this question. I read it and have been meaning to respond to it because I believe it is perhaps the most relevant and insightful question posed in this forum for a long time.

I am coming up for air soon and will respond shortly. Just wanted you to know I am not ignoring your question and look forward to a meaningful dialogue on it.

Thanks
Drake

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Drake

Hi UntoHim,

I have been out of pocket since you posted this question. I read it and have been meaning to respond to it because I believe it is perhaps the most relevant and insightful question posed in this forum for a long time.

I am coming up for air soon and will respond shortly. Just wanted you to know I am not ignoring your question and look forward to a meaningful dialogue on it.

Thanks
Drake

And, to all parties on this particular discussion, I hope it is simple enough for me to understand!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

And, to all parties on this particular discussion, I hope it is simple enough for me to understand!

I'm keenly interested in the two lives and two natures of God too. But actually, if each of us become God in life and nature, there may be as many as a billion lives and natures, plus the life and nature of God. Lives and natures here. Lives and natures there. Lives and natures everywhere. Sounds sorta like pantheism. But add God and it's panentheism.

And I guess Evangelical is out of pocket too.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

I'm keenly interested in the two lives and two natures of God too. But actually, if each of us become God in life and nature, there may be as many as a billion lives and natures, plus the life and nature of God. Lives and natures here. Lives and natures there. Lives and natures everywhere. Sounds sorta like pantheism. But add God and it's panentheism.

And I guess Evangelical is out of pocket too.

Well, the grain of wheat that fell into the ground to die, brought forth many grains. They were all of the same life and nature, right? (in response, please be gentle on my simple mind . . .)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Well, the grain of wheat that fell into the ground to die, brought forth many grains. They were all of the same life and nature, right? (in response, please be gentle on my simple mind . . .)

I like the life and nature of wheat metaphor. Except in the theme of theosis, the wheat has its life and nature but it's not enough. It needs an additive ; a divine life and nature is needed.

Does that actually happen -- the slow process of deification -- or the gradual infusion of God's life and nature -- over time? That's the critical question. Does it actually happen?

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Drake

Just wanted you to know I am not ignoring your question and look forward to a meaningful dialogue on it.

That's great Drake, I'm looking forward to the meaningful dialogue. Maybe you could team up with Mr. E and you guys can make it a "tag team".
Three rounds...winner takes all!
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