LSM/Blended Brothers Take Over of Mansfield

[Drake]

Bro awareness,

Yes, you spotted a dodge for privacy reasons.

Thanks
Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Bro awareness,

Yes, you spotted a dodge for privacy reasons.

Thanks
Drake

Where and when there's endless corruption and scandals, the need for transparency is tantamount.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Where and when there's endless corruption and scandals, the need for transparency is tantamount.

Hear! Hear! Amen to that! Well said.

[Sons to Glory!]

I'm wondering if there can be - dare I say it - forgiveness?

So much blame has been assigned and walls have gone up and fortifications built . . . we see so clearly the beam in the other's person's eye.

Not only do we have a model, but Forgiveness Himself lives in us.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I'm wondering if there can be - dare I say it - forgiveness?

So much blame has been assigned and walls have gone up and fortifications built . . . we see so clearly the beam in the other's person's eye.

Not only do we have a model, but Forgiveness Himself lives in us.

Yeah, lift the quarantine.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yeah, lift the quarantine.

Is that where the forgiveness begins?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Is that where the forgiveness begins?

Just because some posters here desire to make LSM accountable does not mean there is no forgiveness.

It's Lee himself that added extra conditions i.e. "forgive and forget." That was sorely needed in the LCM to protect him and his sons from any responsibility for their actions.

But then again doesn't God Himself require some repentance before He will forgive?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Bro awareness,

Yes, you spotted a dodge for privacy reasons.

Thanks
Drake

On computer forums we can only get at so much. Intentions are hard to come by.

Privacy reasons can be good and can be bad ; can be right, and can be wrong. I guess it's in the reason(s) for hiding. But you are hiding, right brother? Do I get that right?

I must remark. On the forum you strike me as having the right reason's for hiding. But I've been known to be wrong about things like that before.

Anyway brother. Hiding isn't easy. It takes staying focused, that nothing leaks out. Watch out for that brother. You could be found out.

But doesn't it all come out eventually? I don't know. There's only two witnesses, Matthew and Luke ... and they don't seem to jibe ... but didn't Jesus say something about proclaiming from the housetops?

Glory be that day!!!

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by awareness

Privacy reasons can be good and can be bad ; can be right, and can be wrong. I guess it's in the reason(s) for hiding. But you are hiding, right brother? Do I get that right?

It is easier to speak harshly and pretend to carry a big stick when no one knows who you are.

Now - I'm not saying this is Drake - only he knows that.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

It is easier to speak harshly and pretend to carry a big stick when no one knows who you are.

Now - I'm not saying this is Drake - only he knows that.

Few posters here post under their real names. It's best these days.

Drake

[Drake]

LofT.

My answers provided in blue since you seem genuinely interested.

So by Chu being wrong, that doesn't make the LSM right - but that seems like your position here.

At one point I appreciated all the ministering brothers including Titus Chu.

I wonder if any that followed Chu thought that he was the next minister of this age - thus still in the recovery?

Ohio says Titus Chu is a "recognized apostle". According to the New Testament pattern an apostle is a gift to the Body. Anyone who holds that view of Titus should also be aligned with his ministry.

So to summarize the issues (please correct me)

- Nigel Tomes (who was appointed by Chu) also didn't like what the blended brothers were doing. What didn't Nigel like? Was Nigel a part of the church in mansfield?

Nigel is from Toronto. He represents Titus Chu on a variety of topics. As far as Brother Lee and the Lord's recovery he doesn't appear to like much.... he is like Ohio in that sense. So it is hard to know what he does like because he spends his days talking about what he doesn't like. In any case, I found his articles to be disingenuous, not logical, and really just hit pieces... and therefore I realized that Titus had changed and also the anointing I enjoyed from him and in his messages was not the same.

- He used church funds for a personal ministry against the will of the church body. How was he able to do this?

The proxy elders took over finances of the church in Mansfield and began to divert to Titus' ministry.

- Chu (acting alone?) appointed elders in the church against the will of the other members of the church

Right.

- Chu changed the locks on the church he administrated (I assume he administrated or else how would he change the locks?) No one could change the locks on one of my buildings without my permission...

The proxy elders had the locks changed. Titus did not live in Mansfield. He was in Cleveland. He sent a coworker from Detroit to inform the saints in Mansfield that 4 new elders are appointed and everyone must do as they say because they are the authority.

- Chu required a tithe to participate in the Lord's Table (not sure if this means the meeting or act of communion)

Read #117 for the complete criterion to partake of the Lord's table in Mansfield.

- He disparaged the blended brothers (and Lee) - about what and why does this matter?

Anyone can hold whatever opinion they like of anyone else. It becomes a problem when someone claims to represent a ministry, and be a part of it, but refuses to fellowship with others taking care of that ministry. As I said before, that is a non-starter for a ministry.

- Chu didn't seek fellowship from blended brothers (did he seek fellowship from those in the Mansfield church?)

Apparently neither.

- He was obligated (but declined) to seek advice and council (fellowship) from a group in Anaheim because that was a direct church plant of Witness Lee.

No. Not related to the church in Anaheim. The ministry is what is relevant here. Any and all of the serving brothers who are taking the lead in that ministry cannot be lone independent riders doing their own thing AND claim to represent that ministry. If they want to have their own ministry then they have that liberty before the Lord.... he just can't go around to churches in the Far East and other places claiming he is the continuation of the ministry of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee. And if Titus refused to seek fellowship, and continue to do his own thing under the banner of the Lord's recovery then few choices remain. You have to inform all the churches who are taking this way that Titus is not a representative of the ministry he claims to be a part of and the things he is saying is causing problems even division. thus, the quarantine.

Ohio - is it true that Chu required saints to tithe? If so, what did that look like?

Ohio doesn't know. 10% minimum. Pay to play. See #117.

Drake

[Ohio]

Let me wade thru this swamp, making clarifications ...

Note the color coding LeastofThese, Drake, Ohio ...

1. LeastOfThese: He used church funds for a personal ministry against the will of the church body. How was he able to do this?
Drake: The proxy elders took over finances of the church in Mansfield and began to divert to Titus' ministry.
Ohio: All the Midwest LC's supported the regional workers' fund administered in Cleveland. Whether you like it or not, this was no different than other LC's under Lee and the Blendeds, but LSMers used this as a bone of contention in the court. Hypocrites!

2. Chu (acting alone?) appointed elders in the church against the will of the other members of the church
Right.
Wrong. In the LC system, like it or not, the apostles appoint elders. Some members in Mansfield, stirred up by outside LSM operatives, did not like these appointments.

3. Chu changed the locks on the church he administrated (I assume he administrated or else how would he change the locks?) No one could change the locks on one of my buildings without my permission...
The proxy elders had the locks changed. Titus did not live in Mansfield. He was in Cleveland. He sent a coworker from Detroit to inform the saints in Mansfield that 4 new elders are appointed and everyone muc do as they say because they are the authority.
Titus Chu sent Norm Minahan from Detroit. Norm formerly was an elder in Mansfield and a mature co-worker. He even spent time in Anaheim for several years ('93-'97) requested by W. Lee for "blending."

It was thru prayer and fellowship that certain brothers were selected to be elders. Did not Paul send Timothy and Titus to appoint elders? Are not the elders to be respected as authority in the church per the teachings of Nee and Lee?

Drake calls them "proxies" disrespectfully, but is he not also an LSM "proxy" on this forum.

4. Chu required a tithe to participate in the Lord's Table (not sure if this means the meeting or act of communion)
Read #117 for the complete criterion to partake of the Lord's table in Mansfield.
Wrong! Tithing requirement was only for voting privileges, not for meeting or fellowship. Only requirement for communion was faith in Jesus Christ and a little civility, which was often lacking.

5. He disparaged the blended brothers (and Lee) - about what and why does this matter?
Anyone can hold whatever opinion they like of anyone else. It becomes a problem when someone claims to represent that ministry refuses to fellowship with others taking care of that ministry. As I said before, that is a non-starter for a ministry.
Titus Chu and the Blendeds publicly disparaged each other for years. Part of why I left. TC never claimed to represent the Blendeds' ministry.

6. Chu didn't seek fellowship from blended brothers (did he seek fellowship from those in the Mansfield church?)
Apparently neither.
Chu could not even get the Blendeds to abide by the decency guidelines mutually established in the Phoenix Accord. Does TC need approval from Anaheim to appoint an elder in Ohio?

Many in Mansfield knew these new elders and approved of the appointments. It was the dissenters, stirred up by outsiders, that caused much turmoil.

7. He was obligated (but declined) to seek advice and council (fellowship) from a group in Anaheim because that was a direct church plant of Witness Lee.
No. Not related to the church in Anaheim. The ministry is what is relevant here. Any and all of the serving brothers who are taking the lead in that ministry cannot be lone independent riders doing their own thing AND claim to represent that ministry. If they want to have their own ministry then they have that liberty before the Lord.... he just can't go around to churches in the Far East and other places claiming he is the continuation of the ministry of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee. And if Titus refused to seek fellowship, and continue to do his own thing under the banner of the Lord's recovery then few choices remain. You have to inform all the churches who are taking this way that Titus is not a representative of the ministry he claims to be a part of and the things he is saying is causing problems even division. thus, the quarantine.
TC used to regularly fellowship with WL, but Lee did NOT confer any authority to the Blendeds when he died that TC was required to honor, obey, and submit to.

8. Ohio - is it true that Chu required saints to tithe? If so, what did that look like?
Ohio doesn't know. 10% minimum. Pay to play. See #117.
Let the reader decide for himself who knows what.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Let me wade thru this swamp, making clarifications ...

Props to Drake and Ohio - thank you!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Let the reader decide for himself who knows what.

Until brother Drake proves otherwise, I'm going with bro Ohio. I know he was there, and don't know if bro Drake was.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Few posters here post under their real names. It's best these days.

Yes, I know members out here that are hiding their identity because they have family still in the LC, and they don't want to poke that hornet's nest, by letting them know that they are anti-LC, and anti-Lee. Why stir up those kinds of troubles?

Doesn't that tell you something about the local church, and their cult mentality, that causes dissenters to fear them?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes, I know members out here that are hiding their identity because they have family still in the LC, and they don't want to poke that hornet's nest, by letting them know that they are anti-LC, and anti-Lee. Why stir up those kinds of troubles?

Doesn't that tell you something about the local church, and their cult mentality, that causes dissenters to fear them?

Yes, that would be one reason to maintain anonymity. I can think of others - this is like a big online masquerade party!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

On computer forums we can only get at so much. Intentions are hard to come by.

Privacy reasons can be good and can be bad ; can be right, and can be wrong. I guess it's in the reason(s) for hiding. But you are hiding, right brother? Do I get that right?

I must remark. On the forum you strike me as having the right reason's for hiding. But I've been known to be wrong about things like that before.

Anyway brother. Hiding isn't easy. It takes staying focused, that nothing leaks out. Watch out for that brother. You could be found out.

But doesn't it all come out eventually? I don't know. There's only two witnesses, Matthew and Luke ... and they don't seem to jibe ... but didn't Jesus say something about proclaiming from the housetops?

Glory be that day!!!

You are reading too much into it... it is simple. There are nut cases lurking about that will harass outside of the forum. I've been burned once and it will not happen twice.

Thanks
Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

You are reading too much into it... it is simple. There are nut cases lurking about that will harass outside of the forum. I've been burned once and it will not happen twice.

Thanks
Drake

Don't worry. You have a great legal team behind you at DCP.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

You are reading too much into it... it is simple. There are nut cases lurking about that will harass outside of the forum. I've been burned once and it will not happen twice.

Thanks
Drake

Goodness brother, now you make me feel for you. I don't want you to get burned, by outsiders, or harassed. How did you manage to get stuck in such an environment? Are these harassers "Christian" hostiles? As I see it, looking at history, and my own personal experiences, we could easily concluded that, it's very Christian to be hateful.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

Goodness brother, now you make me feel for you. I don't want you to get burned, by outsiders, or harassed. How did you manage to get stuck in such an environment? Are these harassers "Christian" hostiles? As I see it, looking at history, and my own personal experiences, we could easily concluded that, it's very Christian to be hateful.

Fortunately, UntoHim to his credit, runs a secure forum respecting members privacy and insuring their personal details are not disclosed publicly. IT is up to each member to share what they want to.

Other forums, including christian forums, are not so careful. So I had one very bad experience getting harassed outside a forum by forum participants (Christians they were). . I really don't want to go through that again nor put my family through it.

Thanks
Drake

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Drake

Other forums, including christian forums, are not so careful. So I had one very bad experience getting harassed outside a forum by forum participants (Christians they were). . I really don't want to go through that again nor put my family through it.

Thanks
Drake

That's too bad and a long way from "In this way shall all men know you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." "Father, that they all may be one, even as we are one."

But, the Christian life IS in fact quite impossible . . .

(And yes, thanks for the confidentiality of this forum's administrators!)

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

Fortunately, UntoHim to his credit, runs a secure forum respecting members privacy and insuring their personal details are not disclosed publicly. IT is up to each member to share what they want to.

Other forums, including christian forums, are not so careful. So I had one very bad experience getting harassed outside a forum by forum participants (Christians they were). . I really don't want to go through that again nor put my family through it.

Thanks
Drake

It makes sense that UntoHim runs a tight ship - it allows for those who would be bullied, fear retaliation, or fear getting cut off from friends and family to post...

Frequent posters, like yourself, should man up. Nobody is asking for your address, social security number, or name of first pet.