Paul, An Apostle of Christ movie take away

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Because Scripture states the apostles were unlearned men. Also, because the bible don't say so.

No it does not.

Just another one of your gross extrapolations.

Paul was one of the most "learned" men of the 1st century.

The Bible never tells us about your "ground" of oneness or the "minister of the age," but that never stopped you from believing it.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

No it does not.

Just another one of your gross extrapolations.

Paul was one of the most "learned" men of the 1st century.

The Bible never tells us about your "ground" of oneness or the "minister of the age," but that never stopped you from believing it.

I was thinking of the 12 disciples primarily. There's no mention of their musical ability.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I was thinking of the 12 disciples primarily. There's no mention of their musical ability.

At the Last Supper they all sang a hymn. Because there is no mention of instruments, you ASSUME that none of them EVER used an instrument to sing or worship God. Do you realize that some of the Psalms actually give instruction for instruments? Surely the Jewish church would know this. Paul even instructed the Gentile churches to be filled in Spirit singing and Psalming.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

At the Last Supper they all sang a hymn. Because there is no mention of instruments, you ASSUME that none of them EVER used an instrument to sing or worship God. Do you realize that some of the Psalms actually give instruction for instruments? Surely the Jewish church would know this. Paul even instructed the Gentile churches to be filled in Spirit singing and Psalming.

Thankyou for agreeing with me (the part highlighted in bold). That is a fact that there is no mention of instruments.

I think a logical person would therefore assume that none of them used an instrument to worship God. The Word of God should say "they sang hymns and strummed the harp" if it was so.

Even though David was musical on the harp, and Jesus was likened to David, there is no record of Jesus ever touching a musical instrument.

You are adding to God's Word by assuming things that it doesn't say. That's a dangerous way to read the Bible.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That is a fact that there is no mention of instruments.

I see you guys arguing about the use of instruments. Does the LC hold a certain view toward this? If so, can someone please clarify for me. Thank you.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I see you guys arguing about the use of instruments. Does the LC hold a certain view toward this? If so, can someone please clarify for me. Thank you.

Musical instruments are helpful but not necessary. It does not matter what kind of instrument is used, but piano, guitar or both are favored. The main thing is that the music does not become the focus of the meeting, and some instruments such as drums are inappropriate for obvious reasons (I have yet to attend a wedding or funeral where drums are played - even the world knows what is and is not appropriate). That is in the meeting. Outside of the meeting, such as gospel preaching, or musical productions, full instrumentation is okay I think.

Some incorrectly allege that piano or guitar only is because of some superstition about the instruments themselves. This is not the case. The simple reason is that most people in the church can play at least piano or guitar well enough and these instruments especially the guitar or (electric) piano are easily transportable. Another reason is that they are full instruments in the sense that they can play chords and not just melody and so are better suited than drums which can only give a beat.

Another distinction is that in the local churches the music follows the singing. In denominations the congregation waits for the music to start and cannot start singing unless the music starts first with some kind of introduction. This makes the music the focus of the worship. In the local churches people can start singing anytime and the music will catch up. The music will speed up or slow down , loud or quiet in proportion to the singing.

In denominations the musical worship is often a choreographed performance. The Lord's Table is not the main focus but rather the worship and the music as part of a larger choreographed performance, to which the congregation (or more fittingly, audience) is expected to donate money as a kind of payment for the service (this practice goes back to the middle ages where for the first time, the "Christian tithe" was introduced as a way to support the Priest and upkeep of the buildings/cathedrals). In Europe, the cathedrals are still in a state of constant building and repair based on the tithes of the audience and the symbolic gesture that "God is always building his Church". In modern churches it is really no different, but instead of building a cathedral they are building a commercial empire and extending that empire through the idea of church plants and sub-churches.

Whether's it's a 200 year old pipe organ or a 5 pieces rock band, a church service without these things is not a church service in the minds of many...and "did you like the music?" or "the music was good/bad" is a frequent topic of conversation after the service, not Christ and how wonderful the Lord's Table was. In all of the denominations I have attended, a number of them always without fail have a music band and worship leaders, but only celebrate the Lord's table once a month. This proves where their focus is - not in meeting to remember the Lord, but to conduct a musical presentation to attract paying listeners. They can make do with having the Lord's table only once a month, but cannot survive if they have no music or donations/tithing.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Musical instruments are helpful but not necessary. ............

Thank you for that explaination. So in the LSM, instruments are limited to just guitars and pianos?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I see you guys arguing about the use of instruments. Does the LC hold a certain view toward this? If so, can someone please clarify for me. Thank you.

The use of musical instruments became highly controversial in the Midwest, and part of the reason why LSM excommunicated us (or should I say "them" since I left about this time.) The young people's gatherings in the Midwest (mainly Ohio) were worshiping God using contemporary Christian music for their regional events, and LSM got wind of this. Of course, W. Lee is on record condemning electric guitars.

In LSM's scheme of things, based on WL's opinions, a grand piano is "spiritual," but other instruments are "worldly." These views have nothing to do with scripture, but are more in line with cultural norms.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Thankyou for agreeing with me (the part highlighted in bold). That is a fact that there is no mention of instruments.

I think a logical person would therefore assume that none of them used an instrument to worship God. The Word of God should say "they sang hymns and strummed the harp" if it was so.

Even though David was musical on the harp, and Jesus was likened to David, there is no record of Jesus ever touching a musical instrument.

You are adding to God's Word by assuming things that it doesn't say. That's a dangerous way to read the Bible.

Have you now left the LC denomination and joined the Church of Christ denomination? Your views here match theirs.

And your way of reading the Bible by buying HWFMR books from LSM is better?