Paul, An Apostle of Christ movie take away

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That is a fact that there is no mention of instruments.

I see you guys arguing about the use of instruments. Does the LC hold a certain view toward this? If so, can someone please clarify for me. Thank you.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I see you guys arguing about the use of instruments. Does the LC hold a certain view toward this? If so, can someone please clarify for me. Thank you.

Musical instruments are helpful but not necessary. It does not matter what kind of instrument is used, but piano, guitar or both are favored. The main thing is that the music does not become the focus of the meeting, and some instruments such as drums are inappropriate for obvious reasons (I have yet to attend a wedding or funeral where drums are played - even the world knows what is and is not appropriate). That is in the meeting. Outside of the meeting, such as gospel preaching, or musical productions, full instrumentation is okay I think.

Some incorrectly allege that piano or guitar only is because of some superstition about the instruments themselves. This is not the case. The simple reason is that most people in the church can play at least piano or guitar well enough and these instruments especially the guitar or (electric) piano are easily transportable. Another reason is that they are full instruments in the sense that they can play chords and not just melody and so are better suited than drums which can only give a beat.

Another distinction is that in the local churches the music follows the singing. In denominations the congregation waits for the music to start and cannot start singing unless the music starts first with some kind of introduction. This makes the music the focus of the worship. In the local churches people can start singing anytime and the music will catch up. The music will speed up or slow down , loud or quiet in proportion to the singing.

In denominations the musical worship is often a choreographed performance. The Lord's Table is not the main focus but rather the worship and the music as part of a larger choreographed performance, to which the congregation (or more fittingly, audience) is expected to donate money as a kind of payment for the service (this practice goes back to the middle ages where for the first time, the "Christian tithe" was introduced as a way to support the Priest and upkeep of the buildings/cathedrals). In Europe, the cathedrals are still in a state of constant building and repair based on the tithes of the audience and the symbolic gesture that "God is always building his Church". In modern churches it is really no different, but instead of building a cathedral they are building a commercial empire and extending that empire through the idea of church plants and sub-churches.

Whether's it's a 200 year old pipe organ or a 5 pieces rock band, a church service without these things is not a church service in the minds of many...and "did you like the music?" or "the music was good/bad" is a frequent topic of conversation after the service, not Christ and how wonderful the Lord's Table was. In all of the denominations I have attended, a number of them always without fail have a music band and worship leaders, but only celebrate the Lord's table once a month. This proves where their focus is - not in meeting to remember the Lord, but to conduct a musical presentation to attract paying listeners. They can make do with having the Lord's table only once a month, but cannot survive if they have no music or donations/tithing.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Musical instruments are helpful but not necessary. ............

Thank you for that explaination. So in the LSM, instruments are limited to just guitars and pianos?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Thank you for that explaination. So in the LSM, instruments are limited to just guitars and pianos?

Hi Jo S,

In my experience, depending on the context and type of meeting, I have seen tambourines, cabasa, egg shakers, violins, viola, mandolin, ukulele (Brother Howard Higashi was known for this), and a flute (rare).

By and large it is as Evangelical describes. Even with the above the focus is not on the instrument but to facilitate and complement the singing.

There was a CD released by some young people in the 2001 (Summer School of Truth) that had a rendition of "God's Desire" and an impressive electric guitar riff that resembled Van Halen... the guitarist was really talented. But only as a CD and not in the meetings. This below would be more typical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIOZb2kUMu4

or this sound...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGPDauehnG8



Drake

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

There was a CD released by some young people in the 2001 (Summer School of Truth) that had a rendition of "God's Desire" and an impressive electric guitar riff that resembled Van Halen... the guitarist was really talented. But only as a CD and not in the meetings.

Drake

Oh the hypocrisy, Drake.

Ohio SSOT gatherings use an electric guitar and it prompts a quarantine.

But it's OK for LSM because "the guitarist was really talented."

Tell that to brother zeek.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh the hypocrisy, Drake.

Ohio SSOT gatherings use an electric guitar and it prompts a quarantine.

But it's OK for LSM because "the guitarist was really talented."

Tell that to brother zeek.

Maybe it wasn't the guitar, but how he was playing it. Maybe playing the devil's riff at full gain.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Oh the hypocrisy, Drake.

Ohio SSOT gatherings use an electric guitar and it prompts a quarantine.

But it's OK for LSM because "the guitarist was really talented."

Tell that to brother zeek.

Oh stop.

I was just giving my assessment of a brothers pkaying on a CD.

Such melodrama.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Oh stop.

I was just giving my assessment of a brothers pkaying on a CD.

Such melodrama.

So ... I guess you were on a 3 year cruise while the Midwest LC's endured LSM's political and legal hacks dividing every church.

Sorry, Drake, but you have zero credibility concerning all the unrighteousness and corruption at LSM.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Thank you for that explaination. So in the LSM, instruments are limited to just guitars and pianos?

Often for practical reasons as I described, they are the most common I think. In Asia, I don't know, they might use more native instruments. I think in the Baltics they might even use violin. So culture is a determining factor. Music is enjoyed and is helpful, but not required. If the piano player is sick or comes late, everyone will just sing without instruments. If they forget or don't know the tune, they will sit it out. There is no dedicated music band that assembles every Sunday for the meetings. However people may assemble outside of the meeting to make music or record a CD etc, in which case any sort of instrument could be used. More sophisticated instruments may be used for production of CDs or gospel outreach.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Jo S

I see you guys arguing about the use of instruments. Does the LC hold a certain view toward this? If so, can someone please clarify for me. Thank you.

The use of musical instruments became highly controversial in the Midwest, and part of the reason why LSM excommunicated us (or should I say "them" since I left about this time.) The young people's gatherings in the Midwest (mainly Ohio) were worshiping God using contemporary Christian music for their regional events, and LSM got wind of this. Of course, W. Lee is on record condemning electric guitars.

In LSM's scheme of things, based on WL's opinions, a grand piano is "spiritual," but other instruments are "worldly." These views have nothing to do with scripture, but are more in line with cultural norms.