Now's good - byHismercy

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Ohio,

That is how Dr. Tomes characterized what Brother Lee taught. He conveniently dismisses Brother Lee's qualifying statements such as :

"..the flesh is fully possessed, taken over, by Satan as sin.

"Satan as sin is in our flesh."

"As" has meaning.

preposition: as
1. used to refer to the function or character that someone or something has.
"he got a job as a cook"
synonyms: like, in the guise of, so as to appear to be
"he was dressed as a policeman"
in the role of, being, acting as
"I'm speaking to you as your friend"


It is easier for Dr. Tomes to craft an argument and gain support from dissenters by polarizing the points Brother Lee made rather than to deal with the intended meaning as Brother Lee delivered them. He just repeats old rhetoric to rally the base. And though it works for the base, it's shoddy workmanship nevertheless.

Yet, you have yet to offer your own explanation about what sin is and how it looks for opportunity to deceive you and slay you. If you do not agree that sin is the virtual personification of Satan then what is sin? Who is the deceiver? Who roams the earth seeking whom he may devour? It is Satan. Sin deceives and slays. Satan deceives and slays. Is sin the actual fallen archangel? No. Is sin the virtual personification of the fallen archangel. Yes! What is the character of our fallen nature since the moment sin entered through disobedience? It is serpentine.

Scriptures are clear. Brother Lee was clear. It is Dr. Tomes and his followers who polarize Brother Lee's teaching.

Drake

Drake, what is the"virtual personification" of Satan??? I cannot even wrap my brain around what you brothers mean!! Sin is a thing....Satan is a fallen angel....I propose there is actually no such entity as a "virtual personification" of a person. I mean, there are unclean spirits, demons, Satan himself, yes. But a virtual personification???

1John 4:3
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

Here, the Lord says twice that this spirit is in the world. I know earlier you mentioned you believe Satan would enter the antichrist.

Brother, how can you justify altering Gods' word?!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Sin is a thing.....

Brother, how can you justify altering Gods' word?!

ByHismercy,

You are kidding yourself if you think your interpretation is inerrant and mine is altering Gods Word. However, you are welcome to establish your beliefs using Gods Word in this discussion.

You say “sin is a thing”. Therefore, please explain how that “thing” took opportunity, deceived Paul, and slew him.

If your son or daughter came home and complained to you that s/he had been taken advantage of, tricked in some way, then deceived, and beat up would you say...

“What did this terrible thing to you?”

Or

“Who did this terrible thing to you?”

Of course, you would want to know who.

Drake

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Drake

ByHismercy,

You are kidding yourself if you think your interpretation is inerrant and mine is altering Gods Word. However, you are welcome to establish your beliefs using Gods Word in this discussion.

You say “sin is a thing”. Therefore, please explain how that “thing” took opportunity, deceived Paul, and slew him.

If your son or daughter came home and complained to you that s/he had been taken advantage of, tricked in some way, then deceived, and beat up would you say...

“What did this terrible thing to you?”

Or

“Who did this terrible thing to you?”

Of course, you would want to know who.

Drake

[Off topic... again]This is a terrible analogy to say. Did you just want to prove "Satan" is in you?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by A little brother

[Off topic... again]This is a terrible analogy to say. Did you just want to prove "Satan" is in you?

Huh? Don’t be ridiculous. Don’t know what you were thinking but I had a bully in mind.

I know it’s tough medicine.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Huh? Don’t be ridiculous. Don’t know what you were thinking but I had a bully in mind.

I know it’s tough medicine.

Its ok, I declare my chldren safe in Christ Jesus! And of course the word is able to divide marrow from bone...if you ask Him to divide the truth from the lie in you, He is able and willing!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Its ok, I declare my chldren safe in Christ Jesus!

I believe you. And I also believe when it comes to those youngins you’re a mama bear!

Drake

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

I believe you. And I also believe when it comes to those youngins you’re a mama bear!

Drake

Yep. I am a mere human...the Lord is faithful to restrain me...
I have a word for us, brothers...

Jeremiah 17:9 Crooked is the heart above all things, And it is incurable--who doth know it?
That's from Youngs Literal Translation.

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

ByHismercy,

You are kidding yourself if you think your interpretation is inerrant and mine is altering Gods Word. However, you are welcome to establish your beliefs using Gods Word in this discussion.

You say “sin is a thing”. Therefore, please explain how that “thing” took opportunity, deceived Paul, and slew him.

If your son or daughter came home and complained to you that s/he had been taken advantage of, tricked in some way, then deceived, and beat up would you say...

“What did this terrible thing to you?”

Or

“Who did this terrible thing to you?”

Of course, you would want to know who.

Drake

Hi Drake,
Your question posed makes for a very logical proof to your stance. But, I will never be able to get past the fact that Gods word NEVER tells us "sin is Satan in virtual personification in our flesh."

Only Witness Lee. And Lees word is not higher than Gods divine revelation in His word, in fact, it is dung. You should flush it down.
In all sincerity,
byHismercy

[byHismercy]

One thing comes to mind is....Jesus was faithful to cast out demons and Satan when he encountered poor souls afflicted by their possession. Many people still today are possessed, and if they choose to be set free, we ministers of Christ can cast them out in Jesus' name, by the power of the Holy Spirit and they can be set free.

Just ask this of your stance on this matter....would Jesus really come down and make His abode in us.....and merely tolerate Satans' presence throughout a human lifetime??

It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever! I have faith that when a person believes into Jesus as the son of God, receives the Holy Spirit, and is born again....even if that person were afflicted with demonic or Satanic possession....before or after being regenerated....I believe Jesus would assuredly lead that person into an awareness of said unclean spirit....and lead them to help ridding themselves of it. Jesus never left a person alone, possessed, if they sought freedom!!!! Right? Anyone else agree with this thought?

His compassion for us is too great. He would not abide with Satan. This is the most disgusting aberration from Gods word. Please, brothers Drake, Evangelical....consider carefully...I am the least of the least of sisters.....but I HAVE the Spirit of God indwelling me.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

One thing comes to mind is....Jesus was faithful to cast out demons and Satan when he encountered poor souls afflicted by their possession.

inHismercy,

Please explain how Satan dwells in some people as stated above.

Thanks
Drake

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

inHismercy,

Please explain how Satan dwells in some people as stated above.

Thanks
Drake

Drake, I know that Satan can possess an individual because we see Him enter Judas and the Lord cast him out of another, yes?

What I don't believe is his ability to indwell all persons in their flesh, because that gives him omniprescence. Only our God has that quality.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

and the Lord cast him out of another, yes?

byHismercy, did Jesus cast Satan himself out of someone? Are you maybe referring to the women in the synogogue bound by Satan for 18 years? If so it reads as if Jesus freed her from the bonds of Satan, bonds being sin, but I don't take that she was possessed by Satan himself if that's the story you are referring to.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Drake, I know that Satan can possess an individual because we see Him enter Judas and the Lord cast him out of another, yes?

What I don't believe is his ability to indwell all persons in their flesh, because that gives him omniprescence. Only our God has that quality.

Right.

That’s ok. Wanted to understand what you believed. Just to close the loop many in this forum subscribe to Nigel Tomes’ viewpoint that Satan entering Judas was a rare if not one time event.

That matters neither here or there.

Drake

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Drake, I know that Satan can possess an individual because we see Him enter Judas and the Lord cast him out of another, yes?

What I don't believe is his ability to indwell all persons in their flesh, because that gives him omniprescence. Only our God has that quality.

I think that multitudes of Christians claiming attacks from Satan around the world every day, gives him omnipresence. Even though you say he is not omnipresent, most Christians surely act as if he is. Where does Scripture say that Satan can attack multitudes of believers around the world every day?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Hi Drake,
Your question posed makes for a very logical proof to your stance. But, I will never be able to get past the fact that Gods word NEVER tells us "sin is Satan in virtual personification in our flesh."

Only Witness Lee. And Lees word is not higher than Gods divine revelation in His word, in fact, it is dung. You should flush it down.
In all sincerity,
byHismercy

byHismercy

The Bible doesn’t explicitly say everything. For instance, it doesn’t explicitly use terms Trinity or Triune to express the Godhead. Nevertheless, the fact is there. We examine all the scripture and using our limited understanding we articulate what we see of the divine things in the language we understand and speak. Same with Brother Lee and Nee. Brother Lees word is not higher than the divine revelation in His word but to many of us he had a point of view that encompassed the divine revelation in His word with the broadest inclusiveness. However, even that is insufficient in and of itself. It is the vision revealed to me personally that captured me for His recovery. That vision was facilitated by the Lord through a ministry of life to the extent that even if Brother Lee would have departed from it I wouldn’t.

So, if it all the same to you, I’ll not count my experience of Christ through this ministry as dung. Rather, it has been my life changer in Christ for four decades that I could not deny nor will I “flush it down”.

Thanks
Drake

[byHismercy]

Originally Posted by Drake

byHismercy

The Bible doesn’t explicitly say everything. For instance, it doesn’t explicitly use terms Trinity or Triune to express the Godhead. Nevertheless, the fact is there. We examine all the scripture and using our limited understanding we articulate what we see of the divine things in the language we understand and speak. Same with Brother Lee and Nee. Brother Lees word is not higher than the divine revelation in His word but to many of us he had a point of view that encompassed the divine revelation in His word with the broadest inclusiveness. However, even that is insufficient in and of itself. It is the vision revealed to me personally that captured me for His recovery. That vision was facilitated by the Lord through a ministry of life to the extent that even if Brother Lee would have departed from it I wouldn’t.

So, if it all the same to you, I’ll not count my experience of Christ through this ministry as dung. Rather, it has been my life changer in Christ for four decades that I could not deny nor will I flush it down.

Thanks
Drake

I respect that. I would never believe your experiences and revelations of Christ to be dung.

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Drake

The Bible doesn’t explicitly say everything. For instance, it doesn’t explicitly use terms Trinity or Triune to express the Godhead. Nevertheless, the fact is there.

Just curious. Is there anyone here that rejects the Trinity doctrine? And is the LC as a whole primarily Trinitarian? Sorry to get off topic.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Jo S

Just curious. Is there anyone here that rejects the Trinity doctrine? And is the LC as a whole primarily Trinitarian? Sorry to get off topic.

Jo S,

The local churches believe that God is the only one Triune God—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit—co-existing equally from eternity to eternity (1 Tim. 2:5a, Matt. 28:19).


Full statement here: https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/our-beliefs/

Drake

[Jo S]

Originally Posted by Drake

Jo S,

The local churches believe that God is the only one Triune God—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit—co-existing equally from eternity to eternity (1 Tim. 2:5a, Matt. 28:19).


Full statement here: https://www.localchurches.org/beliefs/our-beliefs/

Drake

Ok, thank you for that. So it appears you are modalist rather than trinitarian, correct?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by byHismercy

Hi Drake,
Your question posed makes for a very logical proof to your stance. But, I will never be able to get past the fact that Gods word NEVER tells us "sin is Satan in virtual personification in our flesh."

Only Witness Lee. And Lees word is not higher than Gods divine revelation in His word, in fact, it is dung. You should flush it down.
In all sincerity,
byHismercy

The Bible never says that Lucifer is Satan, either.

Question: "Is Lucifer Satan? Does the fall of Lucifer describe Satan?"

Answer: There is no verse in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html