Apostles in The Church: Yesterday and Today

[Drake]

Igzy>”So it is neither a fallacy nor a cop-out to point out that the LCM view on apostles is not shared by the vast majority of Christians or churches, which my "99%" argument was intended to point out, which I'm sure fair-minded observers understood. You as usual could not pass up the opportunity to turn something into a red herring, which I'm sure fair-minded observers also noticed.”

I understand what your point was perfectly. Nevertheless, the way you presented it was a fallacy in argumentum as was my tongue in cheek response. You cannot know what 99% of the Church thinks anymore than I could know what any of those groups think. Just throwing out meaningless statics might shore your argument up in your mind though.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

Igzy>”So it is neither a fallacy nor a cop-out to point out that the LCM view on apostles is not shared by the vast majority of Christians or churches, which my "99%" argument was intended to point out, which I'm sure fair-minded observers understood. You as usual could not pass up the opportunity to turn something into a red herring, which I'm sure fair-minded observers also noticed.”

I understand what your point was perfectly. Nevertheless, the way you presented it was a fallacy in argumentum as was my tongue in cheek response. You cannot know what 99% of the Church thinks anymore than I could know what any of those groups think. Just throwing out meaningless statics might shore your argument up in your mind though.

Drake

Like I said, you appealed to a red herring. I think intelligent people can realize the LCM's view of apostleship is in the tiny minority. Describing it as 1% is probably very generous. It's probably closer to 0.0001%. So count your blessings and quit griping.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Like I said, you appealed to a red herring. I think intelligent people can realize the LCM's view of apostleship is in the tiny minority. Describing it as 1% is probably very generous. It's probably closer to 0.0001%. So count your blessings and quit griping.

Griping? Heavens no.

I’m just not willing to let weak arguments stand up without a shred of supporting evidence. Your stats above fall into the same fallacy category.

I attempted to have a go at that with levity but I see you prefer candor... so there you have it. Happy to accommodate.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

Griping? Heavens no.

I’m just not willing to let weak arguments stand up without a shred of supporting evidence. Your stats above fall into the same fallacy category.

I attempted to have a go at that with levity but I see you prefer candor... so there you have it.

Drake

Oh, I'm having fun with you for sure.

Again, the LCM view of apostleship is a fringe, tiny minority view. I stand by that statement. That was my central point which is not a fallacy and which you are desperately trying to obfuscate.

If you haven't figured out that your views are fringe you probably still think one day tens of millions of Christians will be pray-reading the HWMR. Dream on.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

I attempted to have a go at that with levity but I see you prefer candor... so there you have it. Happy to accommodate.

Drake

Folks get fired these days for "lacking candor."

Too bad that same standard never applied to LSM.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Folks get fired these days for "lacking candor."

Too bad that same standard never applied to LSM.

Wasn't John Ingalls fired for "lack of candor"?

[Drake]

Igzy>”In your case, Drake, I'm not sure you believe any of the stuff you say. I tend to think it's mostly just a game to you, a way to pass the time.”

Nope.

Appreciate your explanation Igzy. I believe Truth is absolute. I believe when experience leads it becomes a filter to Truth. The kind of Bible you have then depends on the kind of person you are shaped by experience. Nevertheless many people do interpret the Bible and the truths therein based on experience. I don’t. It is not good practice to lead with something that is unreliable and limited. It has its place but not in establishing Biblical Truth.

On this quote above allow me to clarify.

Remove all doubt from your mind. If I am not sure about something I will indicate or qualify it as I did with the question on Titus Chu. When I state something in a back and forth rest assured I believe it. I don’t like to waste time. Do I allow room to be persuaded ? Certainly. Do I hold deep convictions about most of the things I speak of? Certainly. Do I disengage when I think a fellow poster is not discussing in good faith? Almost always.

But again, appreciate the conversation.

Drake

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Drake

The kind of Bible you have then depends on the kind of person you are shaped by experience.

This is true whether you want it to be or not. Cannot be avoided. You believe the things you do largely because of the type of person you are. We all do. That's why the Bible doesn't tell us to eliminate ourselves from the equation, it says seek to be pure in heart.

God can't teach you anything if you don't know something first.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Igzy

This is true whether you want it to be or not. Cannot be avoided. You believe the things you do largely because of the type of person you are. We all do. That's why the Bible doesn't tell us to eliminate ourselves from the equation, it says seek to be pure in heart.

God can't teach you anything if you don't know something first.

Now you appear to be disagreeing for disagreement sake.

Consider this.....

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, whether your experience is as a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, an atheist, a Communist, a Capitalist, a child of the 60’s, a conservative, a liberal, a libertarian, a king or a pauper, etc,etc,

Whatever experience one accumulates from their station in life, it does not change the biblical truth that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life even if they allow their experience to filter out that truth.

I think you know that.

Drake