First Post kumbaya

[Drake]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

I find your questioning very interesting Drake.

It was a simple question that continues to be drawn out needlessly.

The real question is....Why not answer?

Think about it LofT. I have stated that EVERY place I have lived used xerox copies. You have agreed because you have seen it yourself. Therefore, what purpose would disclosing where I lived serve to add anything to your or my argument?

Drake

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Drake

Think about it LofT. I have stated that EVERY place I have lived used xerox copies. You have agreed because you have seen it yourself. Therefore, what purpose would disclosing where I lived serve to add anything to your or my argument?

Drake

bc everyone has a hard time believing you dude.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

Think about it LofT. I have stated that EVERY place I have lived used xerox copies. You have agreed because you have seen it yourself. Therefore, what purpose would disclosing where I lived serve to add anything to your or my argument?

Drake

You are changing the premise of our conversation. We are not talking about making Xerox copies - I agreed with you that this happens.

You’ve been in the LSM churches for 4 decades. Claiming it to be widespread fact that several churches do not purchase materials from the LSM (and only to the LSM) and then distribute to their members. You don’t need to provide a locality that you’ve lived in. Where did you jump to that conclusion?

Also - I started with a simple question, not making an argument. But your continual sidestep and diversion is starting to make me wonder. Especially because you stated it was so widespread that my question was irrelevant.

Maybe I’ll start a thread so others can jump in?

[Drake]

LofT>”Claiming it to be widespread fact that several churches do not purchase materials from the LSM (and only to the LSM) and then distribute to their members. You don’t need to provide a locality that you’ve lived in. Where did you jump to that conclusion?”

LofT,

I did not say several churches do not purchase materials from LSM. As far, as I know every church does. I said, THE PREMISE, LSM does not force local churches to buy books even if they could not sell them to the saints, as was alleged. Furthermore, LSM does not even force members of the local churches to buy books such as HWFMR even though as a publisher they have rights to enforce it. Instead, they will allow copies to be made under circumstances as a further proof point that they are not after your money. And to refute the rest of the fake news money report that members of the local church are required to pay 10% of their income to LSM for the rest of their lives, well, if anyone believes that they will gobble up anything.

Your request for the name of a locality as a reference is completely irrelevant since I have observed these matters in EVERY place I have lived and attended. You confirmed the same with your own experience. No further details about a locality (where I lived) are needed to prove the point.

Drake

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

LofT>”Claiming it to be widespread fact that several churches do not purchase materials from the LSM (and only to the LSM) and then distribute to their members. You don’t need to provide a locality that you’ve lived in. Where did you jump to that conclusion?”

LofT,

I did not say several churches do not purchase materials from LSM. As far, as I know every church does. I said, THE PREMISE, LSM does not force local churches to buy books even if they could not sell them to the saints, as was alleged. Furthermore, LSM does not even force members of the local churches to buy books such HWFMR even though as a publisher they have rights to enforce it. Instead, they will allow copies to be made under circumstances as a further proof point that they are not after your money. And to refute the rest of the fake news money report that members of the local church are required to pay 10% of their income to LSM for the rest of their lives, well, if anyone believes that they will gobble up anything.

Your request for the name of a locality as a reference is completely irrelevant since I have observed these matters in EVERY place I have lived and attended. You confirmed the same with your own experience. No further details about a locality (where I lived) are needed to prove the point.

Drake

Take a deep breath Drake, your true colors are showing through again.

Feel free to re-read our conversation. I'll accept your decision to change the entire premise of our convo and let it die. You've made it clear in previous posts that you are against sharing your locality - and as I've said before - I respect that decision and have not asked for that in any way in this conversation. With 20-30 lurkers on this site at any given time, someone within the "church" is bound to find out... that will hurt your standing in the LSM - no doubt about it.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Take a deep breath Drake, your true colors are showing through again.

Feel free to re-read our conversation. I'll accept your decision to change the entire premise of our convo and let it die. You've made it clear in previous posts that you are against sharing your locality - and as I've said before - I respect that decision and have not asked for that in any way in this conversation. With 20-30 lurkers on this site at any given time, someone within the "church" is bound to find out... that will hurt your standing in the LSM - no doubt about it.

LofT,

It is not my standing in the local churches or LSM that matters here. Your derogatory innuendo notwithstanding, read the private and if that doesn’t satisfy your suspicions then I got nothing else for you on this topic.

Drake

[JJ]

I’m thankful for this place for discussions like these. While they often get people riled up, to say the least. For decades they couldn’t happen in public without LSM or DCP lawsuit.

Kumbaya, welcome to a place to speak your concerns and seek healing.
As you can see, you are far from being alone. But, some won’t agree. Don’t mind Evangelical, Drake, or other LSM church defenders too much. If we had unanimity, discussions wouldn’t be as useful for “sharpening” us.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...rbs%2027:17-19

[JJ]

I’m reminded that true healing isn’t necessarily found here or in any one church. It is found in Jesus Christ the Lord. Hopefully those who frequent these boards can help point us back to “The Great Physician” for curing our ills.

[Drake]

Ohio>”For example, we both know that LSM did not exact a tax on all LCers based on our 1040. Neither was tithing a legalistic practice.

BUT ... we both know that agents at LSM pressured every LC elder and worker to buy books, send their members to the "Feasts," send their young people to the FTTA, etc. Leaders who were not so "compliant," were occasionally made public spectacles. That doesn't have to happen very often to make a lasting impression. After an event like that, occasional reminders suffice, and LSM can return to their regularly scheduled program about the "liberty of the Spirit" which supposedly only we enjoyed.”

Ohio,

I rarely respond to your posts because of their oft vitriolic character. However, your post below was a reasoned response so I’ll give it go.

First, if you and others would respond to absurd statements like the alleged tithing of 10% income to LSM then I wouldn’t feel compelled to do it. Since, fellow posters rarely step up to challenge those absurdities, then I do. That may give the impression that I avoid a central argument in preference for a selected argument and thereby i get accused of “dishonesty”. Fact is, honesty cannot be had in a conversation while absurd allegations are used as part of someone’s argument. Absurdities distract from what could be a reasonable conversation with differences because they impose upon others the assumption that the absurdity is valid. So, as long as a poster insists on absurdities I am content to expose the absurdity, not because I am dishonest, but because no reasonable conversation can be had while the absurdity stands.

Now, to your point quoted above. I feel zero pressure to buy books... they are mostly available online. Perhaps decades ago before the internet provided fluid access to the ministry or before the books were available through Amazon then there was an interest in making sure the local churches had access to all up to date speaking and were on the same page. I understand that because the ministry is not a free for all. For me, it is not a question of liberty of the Spirit as we all can read whatever we want as individuals. It is, as with any ministry, your purpose, your mission, and your calling.

Allow me this example. I like C.S. Lewis. I read a lot of him. I like the parallels in the Chronicles of Narnia in much the same way as I like those in Bunyan’s Pilgrims Progress and Holy War. No one tells me what I can and cannot read personally. I have all the freedom in the world, restricted only by the Spirit, to follow my conscience in what I ingest. However, the freedoms I enjoy as an individual do not transfer to the meetings of the church, else there would be complete and utter chaos. There would be disorder and punching the air. I do not impose my individual liberty in the Spirit onto the rest of the brothers and sisters in the meetings of the church. I do not have the liberty before the Lord to occupy others time by reading the Voyage of the Dawn Treader in the meetings. Why? Simply, because that is not how the Lord is building up the Body of Christ in that setting. You will say, that is an extreme example because no one is advocating reading Narnia in the meetings. Okay, but that is not any different than reading G.H. Lang in the meetings..... a point of contention in the history of the local churches that is counter to the vision, mission, and special calling of those in the local churches. Those localities that are contentious about that can do their own thing and have for that and other reasons.

Therefore, Brother Ohio, everything you describe are perfectly consistent with those following a mission, not seeking mammon. Be it the ministry that builds up the Body of Christ, FTT, encouragement to attend conferences, feasts, trainings, all those to my reckoning are part of the reason why LSM even exists. If not for that then they are just another Christian publisher.

Thanks for the conversation.

Drake

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by JJ

I’m thankful for this place for discussions like these. While they often get people riled up, to say the least. For decades they couldn’t happen in public without LSM or DCP lawsuit.

Kumbaya, welcome to a place to speak your concerns and seek healing.
As you can see, you are far from being alone. But, some won’t agree. Don’t mind Evangelical, Drake, or other LSM church defenders too much. If we had unanimity, discussions wouldn’t be as useful for “sharpening” us.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...rbs%2027:17-19

That might be my favorite verse for a while, thank you for your encouragement!

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Take a deep breath Drake, your true colors are showing through again.

Feel free to re-read our conversation. I'll accept your decision to change the entire premise of our convo and let it die. You've made it clear in previous posts that you are against sharing your locality - and as I've said before - I respect that decision and have not asked for that in any way in this conversation. With 20-30 lurkers on this site at any given time, someone within the "church" is bound to find out... that will hurt your standing in the LSM - no doubt about it.

LofT, just curious- does the LC openly discourage people from reading or posting on this site?

I find it interesting if they discourage it....

When someone is innocent of wrongdoings, they are an open book- ready to defend and explain any situation and uncover every detail.

When, they are guilty- the opposite is true.

If the local church wasn't guilty of spiritual abuse (not to mention illegal activity but I won't go there), wouldn't they be on this site defending/providing proof of their innocence?

Why would they discourage others from reading unless they were afraid of their dirty laundry being aired?

BTW, Scientology/cult leaders do the same thing to their members. Everything from just verbal pressure to not read the material for FEAR (red flag of emotional abuse-FEAR TACTICS!) of being "poisoned" (oh-what a horrible word!) to outright control of the information coming in.

Of course, the latter is only done in the FTT. ugh.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by kumbaya

LofT, just curious- does the LC openly discourage people from reading or posting on this site?.

Hey Kumbaya,

Others on this forum will probably have a better answer for you. I can only speak to my experience.

There are really two ways to answer this question.

1. No, they do not openly discourage people from reading/posting on this site. I doubt the site is blocked on LSM church networks, and no one will be monitoring your web searches.

2. Yes, I was told by multiple people, across multiple localities, including church elder and full timers NOT to read stuff on the internet. They all called it poison. It made such an impression on me (as it was so clearly communicated) that I decided to heed their warning during my time at the church. My time with the church was intentionally dedicated to understanding and following their flow - which I did with fidelity until it was blatantly obvious that Witness Lee and the LSM are a farce. One member aptly calls it a "personality cult".

It is kind of like the point about being forced to buy HWMR. They didn't need to force me to purchase - I forked over my own money without anyone asking me to. BUT it was understood that in order to participate, fellowship, "prophesy", and interact with other members - you had to get a booklet. And everyone would say (publicly) how great and how much they "enjoyed" reading the books. Poorly written, devoid of Gods spirit, theologically questionable, and overall just an unenjoyable read. But in public, you say how great it was. That is how the game is played.

I am fortunate that I left the LSM churches without wounds (unlike many others on this site). My experience there was actually very pleasant. I knew all the right people and all the right people liked me. I was good material. I guess that is why some people stay, they are made to feel important, special, smart, spiritually mature, bigger and better than those in "poor degraded Christianity" (especially those nasty catholics ). I think what attracted people to me was Christ's Spirit within - a perfectly flawed believer made whole through the blood of Jesus. Just a regular dude, comfortable in his own skin, and willing to be the same person when talking to an elder or the janitor.

The Lord led my steps. May he continue to heal you and lead you closer to his grace, mercy, and truth.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Hey Kumbaya,

Others on this forum will probably have a better answer for you. I can only speak to my experience.

There are really two ways to answer this question.

1. No, they do not openly discourage people from reading/posting on this site. I doubt the site is blocked on LSM church networks, and no one will be monitoring your web searches.

2. Yes, I was told by multiple people, across multiple localities, including church elder and full timers NOT to read stuff on the internet. They all called it poison. It made such an impression on me (as it was so clearly communicated) that I decided to heed their warning during my time at the church. My time with the church was intentionally dedicated to understanding and following their flow - which I did with fidelity until it was blatantly obvious that Witness Lee and the LSM are a farce. One member aptly calls it a "personality cult".

It is kind of like the point about being forced to buy HWMR. They didn't need to force me to purchase - I forked over my own money without anyone asking me to. BUT it was understood that in order to participate, fellowship, "prophesy", and interact with other members - you had to get a booklet. And everyone would say (publicly) how great and how much they "enjoyed" reading the books. Poorly written, devoid of Gods spirit, theologically questionable, and overall just an unenjoyable read. But in public, you say how great it was. That is how the game is played.

I am fortunate that I left the LSM churches without wounds (unlike many others on this site). My experience there was actually very pleasant. I knew all the right people and all the right people liked me. I was good material. I guess that is why some people stay, they are made to feel important, special, smart, spiritually mature, bigger and better than those in "poor degraded Christianity" (especially those nasty catholics ). I think what attracted people to me was Christ's Spirit within - a perfectly flawed believer made whole through the blood of Jesus. Just a regular dude, comfortable in his own skin, and willing to be the same person when talking to an elder or the janitor.

The Lord led my steps. May he continue to heal you and lead you closer to his grace, mercy, and truth.

Thank you so much for that response! I was told the same thing growing up and even when I wasn’t meeting for most of my 20’s, I still didn’t look up any criticism online because I truely had this fear that Satan would “get me” and I’d be “poisoned.”

It’s taken me a while to accept that while we should have a healthy fear of the Lord, we shouldn’t fear criticism from others. If anything, you should be able to question and examine criticism (especially with eternal matters right?) to see if there is any truth at all so you can know you’re constantly realigning yourself with the Lord. I might not have this right but there’s the doctrine of the fallacy of man that reminds us that none of us is incapable of sin. Shouldn’t there be a path or avenue to allow accountability within leadership for a group of believers?

I don’t see that at all in the LC. All the submission/authority practices seem extremely off base with what the Bible says. The verses they use don’t really explain (at least to me) how they justify their practices.

But back to the topic, I appreciate you sharing your experience about enjoying the church life. I actually really like a lot of the people in the locality I grew up in. Sometimes I wish my brain didn’t work the way it did and I could not overthink so much. It’s a blessing and a curse sometimes. Things would certainly be a lot easier if I would just “go with the flow.”

But- I wouldn’t be happy not having my own journey.

I understand that feeling of being liked and knowing the right people. As much as I’m a problem for some people in my locality, I feel like (at least I sense) that people stil like me. I feel pretty strongly that if that local church was just an independent non-denominational Bible-based church then I would go there! I feel like you also can see the bigger picture though. It’s off, it’s tainted. Somewhere, somehow- either from the beginning or years later- it became unhealthy.

This part is hard for me to write about but I feel like it’s important to recognize. It’s just very personal and still painful for me but I have to be able to speak my truth without feeling like I’m bringing shame to my family or being disrespectful to my dad. I could write a novel on the complexity of our relationship but the part of it that relates here is me knowing his background and how he was just a perfect “fit” or “bait” for the LC.

Aside from his decisions about the LC, I admire most everything about him. I know he loved me, sacrificied a lot, and did what he honestly thought was right with the best intentions. Did he make mistakes? Yes. But I have a child and I’ve probably made more than him- that’s not the issue. We also had personalities that I’ve learned will naturally clash. He did not understand me and I deal with conflict (or used to) by shutting down. Somehow we were never able to get on the same page. I was deeply affected by the pressure to perform my spirituality publically. It caused my spirit to be numbed. The culture of guilt and shame and oppression on the young people is somewhat better now in that locality but it’s still there. This created a constant feeling of shame for me where I never felt good enough- even though I knew I was smart and creative, I had terribly self esteem. I’ve had to go back and listen to audio tapes of Eugene Gruehler speaking about the “goals for the young people” to be able to understand why my dad had a certain mindset in his parenting. I believe that goal #1 was to have every young person baptized by 6th grade and goal #2 was to have them all attend the full time training. There was all sorts of misguided advice about psychology, etc....the truth is, a lot of kids didn’t get their needs met for where they were in their emotional development. I’m not saying that to criticize but to hopefully increase awareness of how important it is. Growing up one of the most important lessons you learn in emotional development is a sense of community. We had a skewed sense of that (can you tell I’ve had some counseling? Lol) having it only in the local church. Everything else was “wordly.” It was very much an “us verses them” mentality and I picked up on that at a young age. Looking back I can recognize that they just thought they were doing what was right, but I also have to be able to say that feeling “weird” and feeling like you don’t fit in with your peers bc of a spiritual difference in your family is emotionally unhealthy. Those are issues for later in life. A child needs to fit in before they can ever make the choice for themselves to feel different. Currently, I’m almost as different as they come but back then I needed to fit in badly- and I didn’t. I was constantly embarrassed and ashamed of our weirdness. It’s just one of those things that’s not a big deal at all- but to kids, it is.

What further complicates this journey is the tendency to put people on a pedestal when they’ve passed. It’s very hard sometimes for a child to try to be objective and recognize the issues that were in play during a time period and relate the affects of the issues to the issues themselves. I had a great dad and I wouldn’t change anything bc it’s been my journey and I accept that. But some things affect you negatively and some positively and I think it’s important to be objective in examining that.

I can see that my dad saw a “father figure” that he never had in someone who (an elder) was found out to be an abusive person. I can see that his natural likeability and discipline, his speaking/musical abilities, his non-stop energy and I know, genuine care about people were just perfect for the role of an elder. The church was the family my dad never had. He followed to a tee (from what I know), and I know he thought he was doing was was right. But it caused so many problems bc, I believe it was unbalanced. We’ve had issues as kids and our extended family has too. Of course, things have changed but back then it was a meeting very single night, they were told to choose between family and the church, and they wouldn’t go into a home (even extended family members homes) with a Christmas tree bc it was an “idol.” Good grief! I’m saying all that to point out that although I’m glad some things have changed drastically, that the culture is not done being oppressive and controlling. It’s lightened up but it’s still the same culture, just a smaller dose of it.

I didn’t plan on writing all that- LOfT, you got me thinking about it when you wrote about some people just fitting in. Obviously I’ve felt the same.

It’s really refreshing to accept its 100% possible for me to go on by seeing everyone doing that here. Even though I KNOW that, its an immediate programmed guilt/shame feeling when I tell myself that I'm standing for something different than how I was raised. I don't believe its a healthy environment to know God and grow in Him. Yet I don't really fit in with members of denominations either so, where does that leave us lost church kids? Deserted. I need to see believers going on after being in the LC and see that it's possible. I believe it but I don't KNOW KNOW it- if that makes sense I'll probably need to be reminded of that for a while.

I just really think this issue is so huge and it’s so important to recognize. I have a lot of concern and sadness for the environment the kids/YP are in bc I personally know the struggles they might face in life and feel for them.

I know it’s not my job to fix anything though. Maybe if any LCers are reading they can hopefully take it to heart. It's not just me, I have many friends who would agree that the young people’s work wasn’t good for them. I still fight feeling guilty for saying that bc I know there were a lot of sacrifices made by people but unfortunately- it’s still true.

Shame on LSM, that's what I can conclude from it all.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

It is kind of like the point about being forced to buy HWMR. They didn't need to force me to purchase - I forked over my own money without anyone asking me to. BUT it was understood that in order to participate, fellowship, "prophesy", and interact with other members - you had to get a booklet. And everyone would say (publicly) how great and how much they "enjoyed" reading the books. Poorly written, devoid of Gods spirit, theologically questionable, and overall just an unenjoyable read. But in public, you say how great it was. That is how the game is played.

Wow. Did you really say that? Was following the Lord supposed to be like that?

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Drake

LofT>”Claiming it to be widespread fact that several churches do not purchase materials from the LSM (and only to the LSM) and then distribute to their members. You don’t need to provide a locality that you’ve lived in. Where did you jump to that conclusion?”

LofT,

I did not say several churches do not purchase materials from LSM. As far, as I know every church does. I said, THE PREMISE, LSM does not force local churches to buy books even if they could not sell them to the saints, as was alleged. Furthermore, LSM does not even force members of the local churches to buy books such as HWFMR even though as a publisher they have rights to enforce it. Instead, they will allow copies to be made under circumstances as a further proof point that they are not after your money. And to refute the rest of the fake news money report that members of the local church are required to pay 10% of their income to LSM for the rest of their lives, well, if anyone believes that they will gobble up anything.

Your request for the name of a locality as a reference is completely irrelevant since I have observed these matters in EVERY place I have lived and attended. You confirmed the same with your own experience. No further details about a locality (where I lived) are needed to prove the point.

Drake

You don't have to enforce anything when people do it without questioning.

(*mic drop*)

And its been documented in this thread what LSM does when churches stop buying LSM material in the past so, you don't have an argument here.

[Drake]

Duplicate.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

You are changing the premise of our conversation. We are not talking about making Xerox copies - I agreed with you that this happens.

You’ve been in the LSM churches for 4 decades. Claiming it to be widespread fact that several churches do not purchase materials from the LSM (and only to the LSM) and then distribute to their members. You don’t need to provide a locality that you’ve lived in. Where did you jump to that conclusion?

Also - I started with a simple question, not making an argument. But your continual sidestep and diversion is starting to make me wonder. Especially because you stated it was so widespread that my question was irrelevant.

Maybe I’ll start a thread so others can jump in?

I fully support this post. Can we all just answer the questions that are asked? I feel we are, Drake- you're not.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Think about it LofT. I have stated that EVERY place I have lived used xerox copies. You have agreed because you have seen it yourself. Therefore, what purpose would disclosing where I lived serve to add anything to your or my argument?

Drake

None of the 6 churches with which I am familiar use xerox copies of their Morning Revival. Xerox copies are used in the trainings one pays to attend.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Renee

None of the 6 churches with which I am familiar use xerox copies of their Morning Revival. Xerox copies are used in the trainings one pays to attend.

Drake is a wordsmith and only stated that every place he lived used Xerox copies. Never said Xerox copies of what. He is always factual, but may not be truthful. He is a window into the soul of LSM.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Drake is a wordsmith and only stated that every place he lived used Xerox copies. Never said Xerox copies of what. He is always factual, but may not be truthful. He is a window into the soul of LSM.

If the church owns a copy machine then it stands to reason they use copies. Doesn't mean they would make copies of LSM materials to distribute to the saints. Good catch.

[Intothewind]

Kumbaya,

Thanks so much for sharing and being brazen in questioning. It is upsetting to see major questions go unanswered.

You raise great points of talking to family. All ny immediate nuclear family are still very strong for the recovery indeed. So far as there belief system is concerned I'm damned but perhaps they are unaware of how far around my world view has flipped. I'm sure they pray for me, and I do still feel guilty.

I've had about the same level of success talking with my family as you have...and am out of ideas at this point.

[kumbaya]

Originally Posted by Intothewind

Kumbaya,

Thanks so much for sharing and being brazen in questioning. It is upsetting to see major questions go unanswered.

You raise great points of talking to family. All ny immediate nuclear family are still very strong for the recovery indeed. So far as there belief system is concerned I'm damned but perhaps they are unaware of how far around my world view has flipped. I'm sure they pray for me, and I do still feel guilty.

I've had about the same level of success talking with my family as you have...and am out of ideas at this point.

I'm sorry to hear that. Sometimes I feel like if they could just let their guard down for 5 minutes and get on this site, it would all come together for them. Or, in their eyes- all fall apart probably.

It's the getting 5 minutes of their guard down that's hard. I think the most important thing is that you have a relationship with them even if you don't agree right now. I have friends who grew up in the LC with me who have parents still in and in one situation, a parent of my friend doesn't even keep track of their grandkids ages. They are of sound mind, they just don't care. Their focus is on the people in the LC and LC only. They don't involve themselves in their kids/grandkids lives bc they don't go to the meetings anymore. Any time my friends sees her dad or her kids do, it's because SHE'S made the effort. Yet, they have college kids in their home at least once a week, probably more like 2-3 times a week. It's really hurtful to her. It's so sad but I'm honestly grateful my family isn't like that at all.

I just see what it could be with other people's situations so I would say that we are actually the lucky ones. I think keeping that relationship with them is the most important thing to me. I can't push too much - it's so hard though. It's just good to keep things in perspective- there a lot of disconnected families due to the LC. I think the extremeness of the LC lifestyle is shown so much when in comparison to other family members, it can be easier for them to just pull away than face it.

Anything you've tried that DIDN'T work you want to share? Also, what do you feel guilty about?