Can I be candid?

[KindnessNotBlindness]

Originally Posted by Nell

Hi KNB,

From another one-of-few women on the forum, Welcome! I'm a lilly-white former baptist but I try not to take that too seriously. I was in the LC for about 15 years in Houston, New Orleans, Austin, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, San Antonio, then OUT! I think that's all

I'm sorry for all you've suffered in your life. I can't even imagine the pain you've experienced. I have been helped by the Lord in the last few years to put some of this insanity into perspective.

I'm retired now, but I worked most of my life in the technology industry. For the last few years I was a network engineer. As such, I developed a "mind-set" to solve technical problems. On a big computer network, there are sometimes "big problems." Big problems most often can't be solved by one person, or on a superficial level. An often used term is "root cause." You have to find the root cause of a problem before you can hope to solve it.

The problems you have eloquently described in your 2 posts are so big that they are hard to understand much less solve. Where do you start? The root cause is so well hidden that ultimately people turn away from God altogether because He started this whole mess, so it must be His fault. As you have noted, most of the ugliness is man-centric and most definitely ungodly.

The Bible helped me to put this big problem in its place and this has become my perspective of the root cause:

Gen. 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The Serpent was cursed by God because he deceived the woman. (As an excuse to mistreat women, some will try to tell you that the woman, Eve, was cursed because she was deceived. Before you buy into that, demand proof. Scriptural proof that Eve was cursed. I can't find such a verse.) The Serpent was cursed because he lied to the woman. He's still lying. Because God cursed him, He was enraged with a seething, bitter hatred of the woman which would worsen until he meets his final end (as God told him he would). The Serpent determined to take revenge on her and do her in before he experienced the final bruise of his own head. That also means, the Serpent has determined to take revenge on YOU before you can bruise his disgusting head.

KNB, you have told us about your experience of this raging, bitter hatred perpetrated by the Serpent and carried out by mankind. In your two posts, you have described it to perfection. Your story of pain and suffering, perpetrated by others upon you could not have originated in the hearts of man...it's too evil. It must be the evil nature of Satan himself who masterminded his revenge upon you. How do we know this for sure? Genesis 3 is clear. Got put enmity between the woman and the Serpent. You could say that God made you and the Serpent enemies and the Serpent declared WAR on you. This war has been declared by the Serpent, but his boots on the ground are worn by men and sometimes other women...even Christians. He is coming after you, and he is unrelenting. He is still deceiving men and women to carry out his hatred on women and men of the world. He truly hates all mankind.

Yet the Serpent is doomed. He was defeated on the cross of Jesus! Past tense. He was defeated. But his final end is yet to come when he is thrown into the lake of fire. Regardless, he is doomed and, KNB, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT. At least in his own pathetic mind, he blames you. In fact, his fate is self-inflicted. He stuck it to himself.

So, there's my take on the root cause for all that is wrong in this world. You described it to perfection and there it is in the Bible...in the very beginning it's spelled out. If you want to review how it all ends, check out Revelation 12. It's a woman! Maybe you, me and CMW are part of that Revelation 12 woman. I don't know how it's all going to shake down, but there are many opinions, mostly by men who think they know everything. They don't. Some think they have the be-all-end-all interpretation of the Bible. They don't. We'll know when it actually happens.

I hope this helps.

Nell

In response to your root cause analysis I can only repeat my beliefs. I am atheist and I do not believe in God or Satan. I believe things happen because they happen. The Bible is fantasy to me and I reiterate that if it was not written I could have a psych patient write down their hallucinations and it would be similar to what was written. Christianity, religion, and spirituality are all phenomenons to me. I stay far away from that realm. I do think some people are inherently evil to the point that they cannot control their own depravity. Why? I don't know. Why did God stand up when Peter was being stoned instead of saving him from that fate? I don't know. A Black man gets shot in the back eight times. Oh, no! Let's pray to God. Why? He saw him get stoned, get shot, watches children die of cancer, watches the mentally ill die prematurely because they are too ill to properly take care of themselves. Satan gets blamed for all the bad God allows to happen. He cannot be real. Cannot be. Satan is an excuse for bad behavior and treating others unkind. God is an excuse for controlling people and draining them of their finances. I love people and try to be kind. I want people to feel cherished when they are around me. Sometimes I'm not nice but I'm the one to blame. I don't worship myself. I don't worship anything. Peace to you.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by KindnessNotBlindness

If "God" has the key to Hades and he defeated the Devil then why am I hearing on the news about a 3 year girl clinging to her mother's lifeless body when she died in a flood. I am the victim of a sexual assault and I can promise you "God" was NOT there and neither was Satan. I was alone. No it did not make me a stronger person. I felt abandoned by this "God" that I had worshipped and loved and thought loved me.

Originally Posted by KindnessNotBlindness

Why did God stand up when Peter [Stephen] was being stoned instead of saving him from that fate? I don't know. A Black man gets shot in the back eight times. Oh, no! Let's pray to God. Why? He saw him get stoned, get shot, watches children die of cancer, watches the mentally ill die prematurely because they are too ill to properly take care of themselves. Satan gets blamed for all the bad God allows to happen. He cannot be real. Cannot be.

KnB, these are very difficult questions to answer, and a very difficult subject for many people.

On the thread "The Problem of Evil" in the Alternative Views Sub-Forum we explored this topic for some time with many diverse viewpoints, in case you are interested.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

KnB, these are very difficult questions to answer, and a very difficult subject for many people.

On the thread "The Problem of Evil" in the Alternative Views Sub-Forum we explored this topic for some time with many diverse viewpoints, in case you are interested.

You took the words right outta me mouth bro Ohio.

The problem of evil has been a question since 500 years before Jesus. Maybe longer, but no record of it, so far ; and it's caused lots of believers to become atheists.

I'm pleased to see you embrace Kindness. She's not just a believer that became an atheist, she's a LCer that became an atheist (and I think she's better off).

She reminds me of your favorite leading Bible scholar, Dr. Bart Ehrman. The POE threw him too. From what I've read out here he went from a devoted born again to an atheist because of the problem of evil (he actually embraces agnosticism, if anything - but he sure knows his Bible inside and out (that's what tripped up his belief that the Bible is the inerrant inspired Word of God).

Hey, maybe sister Kindness can resurrect the POE thread, way way down in the sub-forum in the dungeon of AltVs (right next to Tartarus, methinks). That would be cool.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

You took the words right outta me mouth bro Ohio.

The problem of evil has been a question since 500 years before Jesus. Maybe longer, but no record of it, so far ; and it's caused lots of believers to become atheists.

I'm pleased to see you embrace Kindness. She's not just a believer that became an atheist, she's a LCer that became an atheist (and I think she's better off).

She reminds me of your favorite leading Bible scholar, Dr. Bart Ehrman. The POE threw him too. From what I've read out here he went from a devoted born again to an atheist because of the problem of evil (he actually embraces agnosticism, if anything - but he sure knows his Bible inside and out (that's what tripped up his belief that the Bible is the inerrant inspired Word of God).

Hey, maybe sister Kindness can resurrect the POE thread, way way down in the sub-forum in the dungeon of AltVs (right next to Tartarus, methinks). That would be cool.

Not easy to steal your lines bro.

For those who believe God (Hebrews chapter 11 provides a brief summary of some long before 500BC), the Problem of Evil is not a problem, rather an admission that "His ways are not our ways."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not easy to steal your lines bro.

For those who believe God (Hebrews chapter 11 provides a brief summary of some long before 500BC), the Problem of Evil is not a problem, rather an admission that "His ways are not our ways."

The old 'only God knows the grand plan' routine. I remember that. It never added up. Even when I was a dyed in the wool LC believer it didn't make sense. I mean, if God has a grand plan, why keep it to Himself?

Please God tell me. Tell me how your grand plan includes drowming everybody, and it's a good thing. Or tell me why babies have to die and in your grand plan it's a good thing.

Now I wonder how God can do evil and in his grand plan it's a good thing.

Anyway, it's all been discussed on the POE thread, down next door to Tartarus, in AltVs.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

The old 'only God knows the grand plan' routine. I remember that. It never added up. Even when I was a dyed in the wool LC believer it didn't make sense. I mean, if God has a grand plan, why keep it to Himself?

He tried to tell you, but you decided that the scriptures were "flawed."

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

He tried to tell you, but you decided that the scriptures were "flawed."

Oh that grand plan. That one comes thru even with errant scripture. And then there's Lee's God's Economy, and eternal purpose -- the building.

But none of that answers theodicy. That's the supposed plan that explains evil, that God is keeping to Himself, or that we use to explain away why God causes evil ; His ways aren't our ways. (Yeah, because our ways has at least some morals - I'm just being candid here).

But thanks for pointing out that the scriptures are flawed. They have to be, because, they were written and modified by flawed men -- modifications thanks to the wonderful Christians that you support, your cradle religion, the RCC. It's your fault .. haha.