Ron Kangas Message

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why didn't Jesus just tell Paul to go and ask Peter or John about the Great Commission that He told to them personally? Why did Paul get his own special revelation that later became a major part of the New Testament?

May be because if Jesus did, some people would jump up and say, "See? Paul got this from Peter or John, so Peter or John must be the MOTA!"

Seems you are still in the mindset of "who is greater". I think Drake got the word right, they are "peers" (Have to admit I am quoting his word out of context though).

Seriously, there really isn't much value in the MOTA idea. There are many ministers we should respect and learn from, but upholding anyone as the MOTA diverts our focus - those One Flow, One Ministry stuff ain't true if someone stands in between us and our beloved Lord.

Dear brother,

Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.

I believe this is what Paul did. Even though it blinded him initially, he was a different man since then. But that didn't make him the MOTA, neither did he care about such idea.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

May be because if Jesus did, some people would jump up and say, "See? Paul got this from Peter or John, so Peter or John must be the MOTA!"

Seems you are still in the mindset of "who is greater". I think Drake got the word right, they are "peers" (Have to admit I am quoting his word out of context though).

Seriously, there really isn't much value in the MOTA idea. There are many ministers we should respect and learn from, but upholding anyone as the MOTA diverts our focus - those One Flow, One Ministry stuff ain't true if someone stands in between us and our beloved Lord.

Dear brother,

Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.

I believe this is what Paul did. Even though it blinded him initially, he was a different man since then. But that didn't make him the MOTA, neither did he care about such idea.

I think it is a mistake to assume that all books in the bible are of equal value to each other just because they are in the bible. We have to consider the authorship and the relative merits. This is also why we consider major prophets and minor prophets. What Elijah and Isaiah have to say is more significant than what Solomon has to say, for example. I mean, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes is good, but to elevate these to the status of Isaiah would be a mistake and lead astray.

For example, genuine Christianity holds Paul's teaching above all the rest. But suppose some come along and say the 4 gospels are the most important (the anti-Pauline movement), or that James is the most important book of the bible (the pro-James /salvation by works movement). We can say sorry, but Paul was the MOTA and his teaching that salvation is by faith trumps the gospels or James that indicates salvation is by works.

The MOTA is indicated by whoever's writings were in most circulation at the time, and by all accounts we can see that this was the apostle Paul, not Peter, James ,John etc.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The MOTA is indicated by whoever's writings were in most circulation at the time, and by all accounts we can see that this was the apostle Paul, not Peter, James ,John etc.

Thank you. If what you said is correct, you have just proved that WL was not the MOTA, if MOTA ever exists.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Thank you. If what you said is correct, you have just proved that WL was not the MOTA, if MOTA ever exists.

Are you sure? Whose writings are in most circulation today? it is the writing of Witness Lee. His ministry material has gone all over the world, including the radio broadcast etc. Just like Paul's writings, or Luthers writings in their time.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Are you sure? Whose writings are in most circulation today? it is the writing of Witness Lee. His ministry material has gone all over the world, including the radio broadcast etc. Just like Paul's writings, or Luthers writings in their time.

"In most circulation" according to what measure?

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Are you sure? Whose writings are in most circulation today? it is the writing of Witness Lee. His ministry material has gone all over the world, including the radio broadcast etc. Just like Paul's writings, or Luthers writings in their time.

I don't know the current count for LC. In 1986, WL estimated the total number of people was 120,000 and I don't think there were any exponential growth since then. So that would be the "most circulation" you are talking about out of millions of believers.

If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I don't know the current count for LC. But in 1986, WL estimated the total number of people was 120,000 and I don't think there were any exponential growth since then. So that would be the "most circulation" you are talking about out of millions of believers.

If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea.

lol Youtube. The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality and we don't even use them in the LC, we stream direct from LSM. We are talking about millions of believers including the ones who benefit from the broadcasts and material who do not fellowship with the LC. At bible distribution events upwards of 100,000 bibles are distributed over a few days. On campuses, LC material would be the most widely distributed, in greater numbers than other on-campus Christian groups. As a personal testimony, most of my family attend denominations but most have a Recovery Version on their shelf which they purchased of their own accord, and some even use it in their denominational bible studies - it is that good. If every LC "member"'s family and friends also use the material then we are talking about multiples of those who currently attend the LC. So I think it is in the millions.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

lol Youtube. The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality and we don't even use them in the LC, we stream direct from LSM. We are talking about millions of believers including the ones who benefit from the broadcasts and material who do not fellowship with the LC. At bible distribution events upwards of 100,000 bibles are distributed over a few days. On campuses, LC material would be the most widely distributed, in greater numbers than other on-campus Christian groups. As a personal testimony, most of my family attend denominations but most have a Recovery Version on their shelf which they purchased of their own accord, and some even use it in their denominational bible studies - it is that good. If every LC "member"'s family and friends also use the material then we are talking about multiples of those who currently attend the LC.

Now you are saying WL is the author of the Holy Bible.

And the behavior of your family members represent the world.

Somehow, you used an "If" in your last sentence. So there is still hope.

BTW, I like what you said - "The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality".

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

lol Youtube. The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality and we don't even use them in the LC, we stream direct from LSM. We are talking about millions of believers including the ones who benefit from the broadcasts and material who do not fellowship with the LC. At bible distribution events upwards of 100,000 bibles are distributed over a few days. On campuses, LC material would be the most widely distributed, in greater numbers than other on-campus Christian groups. As a personal testimony, most of my family attend denominations but most have a Recovery Version on their shelf which they purchased of their own accord, and some even use it in their denominational bible studies - it is that good. If every LC "member"'s family and friends also use the material then we are talking about multiples of those who currently attend the LC. So I think it is in the millions.

"In most circulation"?

[Drake]

Alb>"If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA."

A little brother,

I don't think YouTube is representative of the circulation of ministries. Unless perhaps you mean millennials that are christians,.... a subset in music ministries may be compared. I believe Evangelical is on to a more accurate measurement.

Drake

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I don't know the current count for LC. In 1986, WL estimated the total number of people was 120,000 and I don't think there were any exponential growth since then. So that would be the "most circulation" you are talking about out of millions of believers.

If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA.

This is in reply to Rick Warren comment (I think you edited after my last post) -

I've done the Purpose Driven Life course in a small group. I've read and studied and discussed the book. Lee said the same thing and more, while Warren was still in diapers. So while Warren is good, Lee is more MOTA material I think.