Ron Kangas Message

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The MOTA is indicated by whoever's writings were in most circulation at the time, and by all accounts we can see that this was the apostle Paul, not Peter, James ,John etc.

Thank you. If what you said is correct, you have just proved that WL was not the MOTA, if MOTA ever exists.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Thank you. If what you said is correct, you have just proved that WL was not the MOTA, if MOTA ever exists.

Are you sure? Whose writings are in most circulation today? it is the writing of Witness Lee. His ministry material has gone all over the world, including the radio broadcast etc. Just like Paul's writings, or Luthers writings in their time.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Are you sure? Whose writings are in most circulation today? it is the writing of Witness Lee. His ministry material has gone all over the world, including the radio broadcast etc. Just like Paul's writings, or Luthers writings in their time.

"In most circulation" according to what measure?

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Are you sure? Whose writings are in most circulation today? it is the writing of Witness Lee. His ministry material has gone all over the world, including the radio broadcast etc. Just like Paul's writings, or Luthers writings in their time.

I don't know the current count for LC. In 1986, WL estimated the total number of people was 120,000 and I don't think there were any exponential growth since then. So that would be the "most circulation" you are talking about out of millions of believers.

If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I don't know the current count for LC. But in 1986, WL estimated the total number of people was 120,000 and I don't think there were any exponential growth since then. So that would be the "most circulation" you are talking about out of millions of believers.

If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea.

lol Youtube. The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality and we don't even use them in the LC, we stream direct from LSM. We are talking about millions of believers including the ones who benefit from the broadcasts and material who do not fellowship with the LC. At bible distribution events upwards of 100,000 bibles are distributed over a few days. On campuses, LC material would be the most widely distributed, in greater numbers than other on-campus Christian groups. As a personal testimony, most of my family attend denominations but most have a Recovery Version on their shelf which they purchased of their own accord, and some even use it in their denominational bible studies - it is that good. If every LC "member"'s family and friends also use the material then we are talking about multiples of those who currently attend the LC. So I think it is in the millions.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

lol Youtube. The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality and we don't even use them in the LC, we stream direct from LSM. We are talking about millions of believers including the ones who benefit from the broadcasts and material who do not fellowship with the LC. At bible distribution events upwards of 100,000 bibles are distributed over a few days. On campuses, LC material would be the most widely distributed, in greater numbers than other on-campus Christian groups. As a personal testimony, most of my family attend denominations but most have a Recovery Version on their shelf which they purchased of their own accord, and some even use it in their denominational bible studies - it is that good. If every LC "member"'s family and friends also use the material then we are talking about multiples of those who currently attend the LC.

Now you are saying WL is the author of the Holy Bible.

And the behavior of your family members represent the world.

Somehow, you used an "If" in your last sentence. So there is still hope.

BTW, I like what you said - "The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality".

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Now you are saying WL is the author of the Holy Bible.

And the behavior of your family members represent the world.

Somehow, you used an "If" in your last sentence. So there is still hope.

Well I know my family and know that other people in the LC have family who also use it. So it could be a trend. I don't know who clicks on poor quality videos of Lee from 10-20 years ago, certainly not current LC members. We stream direct from LSM and so would people who are not in the LC but want to watch. So Youtube views is not an accurate way to tell.

Where did I ever say Lee was the author of the Bible? Obviously I'm speaking about the ministry /foot notes. As a translation, the revised KJV or NKJV is better. My family just love the "unlocked" version of the Bible so much they prefer it to their NIV.

Anyway where were you in the discussions here when some supported the idea that Satan wrote parts of the Bible? So it's shock and horror from you when I "implied" (which I didn't actually) that Lee authored the Bible, but not a word from you when Satan writes the Bible.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Well I know my family and know that other people in the LC have family who also use it. So it could be a trend. I don't know who clicks on poor quality videos of Lee from 10-20 years ago, certainly not current LC members. We stream direct from LSM and so would people who are not in the LC but want to watch. So Youtube views is not an accurate way to tell.

Where did I ever say Lee was the author of the Bible? Obviously I'm speaking about the ministry /foot notes. As a translation, the revised KJV or NKJV is better. My family just love the "unlocked" version of the Bible so much they prefer it to their NIV.

Anyway where were you in the discussions here when some supported the idea that Satan wrote parts of the Bible? So it's shock and horror from you when I "implied" (which I didn't actually) that Lee authored the Bible, but not a word from you when Satan writes the Bible.

Check this out, the poor quality voice recording of A W Tozer got 180K views.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va_BrSislsE

Not sure about what your last statement was about. Am I supposed to participate in all threads in this forum?

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

lol Youtube. The Lee sermons there are old and poor quality and we don't even use them in the LC, we stream direct from LSM. We are talking about millions of believers including the ones who benefit from the broadcasts and material who do not fellowship with the LC. At bible distribution events upwards of 100,000 bibles are distributed over a few days. On campuses, LC material would be the most widely distributed, in greater numbers than other on-campus Christian groups. As a personal testimony, most of my family attend denominations but most have a Recovery Version on their shelf which they purchased of their own accord, and some even use it in their denominational bible studies - it is that good. If every LC "member"'s family and friends also use the material then we are talking about multiples of those who currently attend the LC. So I think it is in the millions.

"In most circulation"?

[Drake]

Alb>"If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA."

A little brother,

I don't think YouTube is representative of the circulation of ministries. Unless perhaps you mean millennials that are christians,.... a subset in music ministries may be compared. I believe Evangelical is on to a more accurate measurement.

Drake

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Drake

Alb>"If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA."

A little brother,

I don't think YouTube is representative of the circulation of ministries. Unless perhaps you mean millennials that are christians,.... a subset in music ministries may be compared. I believe Evangelical is on to a more accurate measurement.

Drake

Does Evangelical has an accurate measurement to support his point at all?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Does Evangelical has an accurate measurement to support his point at all?

Fair question. Ask him.

I just don't think YouTube is the measurement for what we are talking about.

Drake

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Drake

Alb>"If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA."

A little brother,

I don't think YouTube is representative of the circulation of ministries. Unless perhaps you mean millennials that are christians,.... a subset in music ministries may be compared. I believe Evangelical is on to a more accurate measurement.

Drake

Do you agree with me that it's in the millions? That is the latest I heard anyway. To be fair, the popularity may be driven partly by the lack of bibles anywhere, and not many churches/ministries seem to do bible distribution and LSM makes up the shortfall. But I have seen denominational Christians attracted to the ministry which indicates there is something special about the ministry and we can't just look at church attendance numbers alone.

I've done courses and read books by others before like Warren, and it's good, I learn something and get some benefit, but there's nothing to keep me coming back or do it over again. There's just something extra special there with Lee's books that makes you want to read all of them or read them twice, I think you know what I mean. And no one ever coerced me or told me I have to read these books or else, I was just drawn or attracted to them.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Do you agree with me that it's in the millions? That is the latest I heard anyway.

Yep.

Bibles for America alone has distributed over 1 million bibles and almost 3 million ministry books. That is just in America.

Drake

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Do you agree with me that it's in the millions? That is the latest I heard anyway. To be fair, the popularity may be driven partly by the lack of bibles anywhere, and not many churches/ministries seem to do bible distribution and LSM makes up the shortfall. But I have seen denominational Christians attracted to the ministry which indicates there is something special about the ministry and we can't just look at church attendance numbers alone.

I don't know how accurate is it but you can check the following and see whether the "in the millions" for recovery version really means something.

https://brandongaille.com/27-good-bi...es-statistics/

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I've done courses and read books by others before like Warren, and it's good, I learn something and get some benefit, but there's nothing to keep me coming back or do it over again. There's just something extra special there with Lee's books that makes you want to read all of them or read them twice, I think you know what I mean. And no one ever coerced me or told me I have to read these books or else, I was just drawn or attracted to them.

Not many are like LC which keeps us coming back or do it over again on the same repackaged contents. May be that contributes to the "most circulation" you suggested.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I don't know the current count for LC. In 1986, WL estimated the total number of people was 120,000 and I don't think there were any exponential growth since then. So that would be the "most circulation" you are talking about out of millions of believers.

If you are still not sure, go to youtube and compare the view count for sermons from Witness Lee with other more well known preachers and you will have a clearer idea. And if you check the sales number for "The Purpose Driven Life", you might hail Rick Warren as the new MOTA.

This is in reply to Rick Warren comment (I think you edited after my last post) -

I've done the Purpose Driven Life course in a small group. I've read and studied and discussed the book. Lee said the same thing and more, while Warren was still in diapers. So while Warren is good, Lee is more MOTA material I think.