Outer Darkness?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I understand the justification of the outer darkness. Just that I couldn't find much information on what will happen afterwards. Will those being punished during the Millennium be restored to glory with the other believers?

It is easier to find verses saying it would be worse if believers turn their backs on Christ, for example,

2Pe 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

We are all responsible for what we know and how much we have been given. Those ones in these verses may have been believers, even ministers and teachers, born of the Spirit, and if so they will not perish for eternity. They also may be severely chastened by the Lord, however, especially for the damage they have caused to others. And this is the difficulty we face understanding scripture. Salvation in the Bible is far more complex than merely going to heaven or hell. Can one can "lose" his salvation temporarily due to His discipline and thus lose blessings, promises, rewards, and joy while being disciplined? I believe some will be rewarded for some of their works, yet still be disciplined "yet so as thru fire."

My personal feeling is that how much time and how severely we are disciplined depends on us. God's many children are an incredibly diverse lot, from those like Paul who were assured of promised rewards to some naughty prodigals who want nothing to do with God. There is no way to know the future of each one individually, since each will be treated separately by his/her own Master, but I believe in the end, in eternity, all believers will enter into glory with Him. After all is said and done, I believe we all will confess that our Lord is true, He is fair, and how irreproachable and inscrutable are His judgments, for out of Him and through Him, and to Him are all things, to Him be the glory forever, Amen!

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We are all responsible for what we know and how much we have been given. Those ones in these verses may have been believers, even ministers and teachers, born of the Spirit, and if so they will not perish for eternity. They also may be severely chastened by the Lord, however, especially for the damage they have caused to others. And this is the difficulty we face understanding scripture. Salvation in the Bible is far more complex than merely going to heaven or hell. Can one can "lose" his salvation temporarily due to His discipline and thus lose blessings, promises, rewards, and joy while being disciplined? I believe some will be rewarded for some of their works, yet still be disciplined "yet so as thru fire."

My personal feeling is that how much time and how severely we are disciplined depends on us. God's many children are an incredibly diverse lot, from those like Paul who were assured of promised rewards to some naughty prodigals who want nothing to do with God. There is no way to know the future of each one individually, since each will be treated separately by his/her own Master, but I believe in the end, in eternity, all believers will enter into glory with Him. After all is said and done, I believe we all will confess that our Lord is true, He is fair, and how irreproachable and inscrutable are His judgments, for out of Him and through Him, and to Him are all things, to Him be the glory forever, Amen!

Again, Ohio. Well said.

Nell

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We are all responsible for what we know and how much we have been given. Those ones in these verses may have been believers, even ministers and teachers, born of the Spirit, and if so they will not perish for eternity. They also may be severely chastened by the Lord, however, especially for the damage they have caused to others. And this is the difficulty we face understanding scripture. Salvation in the Bible is far more complex than merely going to heaven or hell. Can one can "lose" his salvation temporarily due to His discipline and thus lose blessings, promises, rewards, and joy while being disciplined? I believe some will be rewarded for some of their works, yet still be disciplined "yet so as thru fire."

My personal feeling is that how much time and how severely we are disciplined depends on us. God's many children are an incredibly diverse lot, from those like Paul who were assured of promised rewards to some naughty prodigals who want nothing to do with God. There is no way to know the future of each one individually, since each will be treated separately by his/her own Master, but I believe in the end, in eternity, all believers will enter into glory with Him. After all is said and done, I believe we all will confess that our Lord is true, He is fair, and how irreproachable and inscrutable are His judgments, for out of Him and through Him, and to Him are all things, to Him be the glory forever, Amen!

A classical Lee interpretation...no i should not say that..its not his view its the bibles. Good stuff. Not just Lee..many non osas people believe in Gods chastisement in the next life.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

A classical Lee interpretation...no i should not say that..its not his view its the bibles. Good stuff. Not just Lee..many non osas people believe in Gods chastisement in the next life.

Stolen from Robert Govett and David Panton.

Many thanks to brother Lewis Schoettle Publishing.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

A classical Lee interpretation...no i should not say that..its not his view its the bibles. Good stuff. Not just Lee..many non osas people believe in Gods chastisement in the next life.

If we are saved by faith through His grace, then what do you say about those who apparently were born again in their youth, yet spent their life rejecting faith, refusing to believe in the cross of Christ, and rebutting the words of scripture? One notable false teacher in academia comes to mind. How can God now justify them when they refuse to believe?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If we are saved by faith through His grace, then what do you say about those who apparently were born again in their youth, yet spent their life rejecting faith, refusing to believe in the cross of Christ, and rebutting the words of scripture? One notable false teacher in academia comes to mind. How can God now justify them when they refuse to believe?

Osas is a false doctrine i believe. If Judas Iscariot a believer and disciple went to hell. Then any believer can.

What does not make sense to me is if Lee intended the outer darkness doctrine to keep people in the recovery out of fear..then why not just reject osas altogether or say that outer darkness is hell. Why not just say that if you leave the revovery you will go to hell. This suggests to me the doctrine was never designed to keep people in the recovery out of fear.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Osas is a false doctrine i believe. If Judas Iscariot a believer and disciple went to hell. Then any believer can.

What does not make sense to me is if Lee intended the outer darkness doctrine to keep people in the recovery out of fear..then why not just reject osas altogether or say that outer darkness is hell. Why not just say that if you leave the revovery you will go to hell. This suggests to me the doctrine was never designed to keep people in the recovery out of fear.

I don't think Lee rejected osas. He did not use outer darkness to keep people in the recovery out of fear. He used "overcomer" to lure people into the recovery out of self-righteousness. Fearing God was probably not his concern given he knew God's economy so well and was acting so diligently to help complete God's economy.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I don't think Lee rejected osas. He did not use outer darkness to keep people in the recovery out of fear. He used "overcomer" to lure people into the recovery out of self-righteousness. Fearing God was probably not his concern given he knew God's economy so well and was acting so diligently to help complete God's economy.

Is Christ asking us to be self-righteous here?:
Revelation 3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Is Christ asking us to be self-righteous here?:
Revelation 3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"

The point is, God is the only judge to deteremine who are the overcomers.

I often heard brothers and sisters saying they want to be an overcomers as if this is the driving force on how they act. I cannot say this is totally wrong but they may be missing the target.

I strongly believe the true overcomers are those who don't care about whether they themselves would be an overcomer. They simply love and fear God, and care more about how to humbly serve Him and His people.