Outer Darkness?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If we are saved by faith through His grace, then what do you say about those who apparently were born again in their youth, yet spent their life rejecting faith, refusing to believe in the cross of Christ, and rebutting the words of scripture? One notable false teacher in academia comes to mind. How can God now justify them when they refuse to believe?

Osas is a false doctrine i believe. If Judas Iscariot a believer and disciple went to hell. Then any believer can.

What does not make sense to me is if Lee intended the outer darkness doctrine to keep people in the recovery out of fear..then why not just reject osas altogether or say that outer darkness is hell. Why not just say that if you leave the revovery you will go to hell. This suggests to me the doctrine was never designed to keep people in the recovery out of fear.

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Osas is a false doctrine i believe. If Judas Iscariot a believer and disciple went to hell. Then any believer can.

What does not make sense to me is if Lee intended the outer darkness doctrine to keep people in the recovery out of fear..then why not just reject osas altogether or say that outer darkness is hell. Why not just say that if you leave the revovery you will go to hell. This suggests to me the doctrine was never designed to keep people in the recovery out of fear.

I don't think Lee rejected osas. He did not use outer darkness to keep people in the recovery out of fear. He used "overcomer" to lure people into the recovery out of self-righteousness. Fearing God was probably not his concern given he knew God's economy so well and was acting so diligently to help complete God's economy.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

I don't think Lee rejected osas. He did not use outer darkness to keep people in the recovery out of fear. He used "overcomer" to lure people into the recovery out of self-righteousness. Fearing God was probably not his concern given he knew God's economy so well and was acting so diligently to help complete God's economy.

Is Christ asking us to be self-righteous here?:
Revelation 3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Is Christ asking us to be self-righteous here?:
Revelation 3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"

The point is, God is the only judge to deteremine who are the overcomers.

I often heard brothers and sisters saying they want to be an overcomers as if this is the driving force on how they act. I cannot say this is totally wrong but they may be missing the target.

I strongly believe the true overcomers are those who don't care about whether they themselves would be an overcomer. They simply love and fear God, and care more about how to humbly serve Him and His people.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

The point is, God is the only judge to deteremine who are the overcomers.

I often heard brothers and sisters saying they want to be an overcomers as if this is the driving force on how they act. I cannot say this is totally wrong but they may be missing the target.

I strongly believe the true overcomers are those who don't care about whether they themselves would be an overcomer. They simply love and fear God, and care more about how to humbly serve Him and His people.

The way to be an overcomer is to not try?

[A little brother]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The way to be an overcomer is to not try?

Sorry if I didn't express it simple enough for you to understand.

We don't try to be an overcomer. We try to please God.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by A little brother

Sorry if I didn't express it simple enough for you to understand.

We don't try to be an overcomer. We try to please God.

We try to please God by being an overcomer.

We please God by
a) not trying to be an overcomer? or
b) trying to be an overcomer?

[Fuji]

Originally Posted by A little brother

The point is, God is the only judge to deteremine who are the overcomers.

I often heard brothers and sisters saying they want to be an overcomers as if this is the driving force on how they act. I cannot say this is totally wrong but they may be missing the target.

I strongly believe the true overcomers are those who don't care about whether they themselves would be an overcomer. They simply love and fear God, and care more about how to humbly serve Him and His people.

i absolutely agree with you. I think we Christians need to STOP putting ourselves in place of God to decide who is "in" the church and who is "not. Similarly, we need to stop taking His place to judge who is an "overcomer" and who is not. In my own opinion there are two sides, everyone who has been saved has overcome already. But we also need to partake of His victory continuously. It's like we have been saved already but still need to "work out" our salvation daily.I believe this view doesn't contradict with Lee's and Nee's however I absolutely disagree with Lee's outer darkness thingy.

That's how I felt too when I was in LC. I was under heavy loads of legalism I didn't know. I constantly suffer from questioning myself ,"am I 'out'? Or am I 'in'" and often times I Feel like I need to squeeze harder to be in the LC circle. My journey in LC began with growing in the Spirit into trying hard with my effort to please the LC system and people.

When we solely focus on Christ, everything will come. There will be fruit bearing. There is no trying to overcome (I'm talking about trying in terms of human effort). Of course we need to cooperate with Him (in LC language) and follow His voice, to keep in step with the Spirit , but it is a result springing from within as a result of us loving and desiring the Lord. Even Nee said so. It's an exchanged life. When we allow Christ to live in us, He will rule and reign and He will do it through us. In Nee's words, victory is obtained, not attained.