Mere Christianity or Degraded Christianity?

[DistantStar]

Originally Posted by aron

"Sola Scriptora" became Me and My scripture and My interpretation and My group who I've convinced (seduced) to think like Me. The Church of Me.

C. S. Lewis had a point on this as well, though in this instance he referred to prayer. In the Screwtape Letters he talked about how we tend not to pray to God - the external God who actually is - but to some image we have of him, or some object on the wall we look at when we pray. We tend to forget that God is outside of our perceptions. Thus when we pray (and to tie in with your point in general) we need to realise that God, though he resides in us, is not just some picture or subjective image we have, but a very real objective being outside of us.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by DistantStar

C. S. Lewis had a point on this as well, though in this instance he referred to prayer. In the Screwtape Letters he talked about how we tend not to pray to God - the external God who actually is - but to some image we have of him, or some object on the wall we look at when we pray. We tend to forget that God is outside of our perceptions. Thus when we pray (and to tie in with your point in general) we need to realise that God, though he resides in us, is not just some picture or subjective image we have, but a very real objective being outside of us.

Re: "a very real objective being outside of us" - the Bible says God is inside of us.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by DistantStar

...we need to realise that God, though he resides in us, is not just some picture or subjective image we have, but a very real objective being outside of us.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

..the Bible says God is inside of us.

Brother Evangelical, please slow down a bit and try not to give such knee-jerk reactions. DistantStar has been a very deliberate and thoughtful poster, and he is also the starter of this thread. (C.S. Lewis was also a very deliberate and thoughtful writer). I do understand and appreciate that you are here defending a certain side of things and a certain viewpoint (don't forget most of us were also in such a position for many years), but try not to take so many shots in the dark before you even know what your shooting at. Fair enough?
-

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Brother Evangelical, please slow down a bit and try not to give such knee-jerk reactions. DistantStar has been a very deliberate and thoughtful poster, and he is also the starter of this thread. (C.S. Lewis was also a very deliberate and thoughtful writer). I do understand and appreciate that you are here defending a certain side of things and a certain viewpoint (don't forget most of us were also in such a position for many years), but try not to take so many shots in the dark before you even know what your shooting at. Fair enough?
-

Even though God is external to us, we will always view Him through the lens of our subjective reality. That is how our brains work, that is how we were created.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Even though God is external to us, we will always view Him through the lens of our subjective reality. That is how our brains work, that is how we were created.

We also view God, whether good or bad, thru the teachings we receive, which tend to shape "our subjective reality."

Lee's views were narrow and judgmental towards outsiders. That same "subjective reality" can be seen in his followers.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That same "subjective reality" can be seen in his followers.

"So subjective is my Christ to me", Lee famously wrote in a hymn. We all sang those lines over and over, vicariously absorbing his 'experience of Christ'. The Protestant legacy has been one of rampant subjectivism. Watchman Nee, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Billy Sunday, Aimee Semple McPherson, Ellen White, Brian Houston (Hillsong); on and on the flock gathers round the stage, watching the charismatic's dramatization of his/her personal salvation story. It's all about the experience.

And the experience includes Jimmy Swaggert crying, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker's financial pyramid scheme, etc etc. Suddenly Daystar doesn't seem so odd.

Only Jesus Christ's experience with His Father will never fail. It will never fade, it will never be shaken. "I will not be moved" - only one Person in history could say that. This is the rock on which we stand. Not ourselves. "Everything which came into being came through Him, not one thing came into being apart from Him." Jesus is the singularity. Everything that is real flows from Him.

God's economy, the Body (i.e. ChristandtheChurch, the feeling of the Body and so forth), the vision of the age, the ground of oneness, the Processed Triune God, and the rest of it, are all the issues of subjectivism writ large. They're slender reeds, untrustworthy. Jesus alone reigns.

[Evangelical]

When we talk about subjective reality we are not talking about emotional or sensational experiences. We are talking about spiritual experiences. What no one really teaches in the denominations is the difference between the soul and the spirit. "Subjective reality" is just another way of saying a personal relationship with Jesus. Well, a bit more than that, as it emphasizes that this is an inward relationship not an outward one. In the Recovery the objective truths are also taught as well as the importance of consulting other saints, the objective truths in the Bible, and considering our environment. In the Bible we find that every genuine believer had a subjective experience of Christ without knowing much doctrine. Of course, a sinner can have a subjective experience of Christ as well - a subjective experience is not a measure of God's favor. The focus on subjective reality is to counter the strong emphasis on objective facts, teaching and head knowledge prevalent in today's denominations, and in the evangelical world in particular. We can feel there is no life there. The charismatics balance it with the emotions as a counter to the problem with objective facts, but still this is not of life but of emotions. No denomination emphasizes the exercising of the spirit as the Recovery does by which we can experience life.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Re: "a very real objective being outside of us" - the Bible says God is inside of us.

"Christ in you, the hope of glory", and "The Spirit witnesses with our spirit" are the kind of verses subjectivist and experientialist defenders might use. But that wasn't my point. My point was, what is our focus?

If the focus is " Christ in me", then the "me" part will eventually remove the "Chist" part. Focus on our participation in the divine becomes a chimera. Self will intrude. Witness Lee asked the Shanghai elders, "How did you feel?" when they expelled Watchman Nee. God had become a sensation to them.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by aron

"Christ in you, the hope of glory", and "The Spirit witnesses with our spirit" are the kind of verses subjectivist and experientialist defenders might use. But that wasn't my point. My point was, what is our focus?

If the focus is " Christ in me", then the "me" part will eventually remove the "Chist" part. Focus on our participation in the divine becomes a chimera. Self will intrude. Witness Lee asked the Shanghai elders, "How did you feel?" when they expelled Watchman Nee. God had become a sensation to them.

Like the old 70's adage, "if it feels good do it."

To Lee and his adherents, they must always "sense life and peace."

What happens when "life and peace" opposes righteousness and the Lord's commands?