Jezebel -- why we should know who she is.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

It is not WL's interpretation alone, the connection between Catholicism and Baal/Sun worship has long been recognized in Protestantism.

Why is it OK for you to equate the US government with Jezebel but it is not OK if I say the US is Sodom? Don't you know that homosexuality was part of Baal worship? So when you say the US government is Jezebel you are really saying it is Sodom plus other things. Yet you tried your best to argue that US was not Sodom when we had that discussion. I now realize it was because you thought it was Jezebel and not Sodom ,and not because you are ignorant of what is going on in the world.

When did I say it was not OK to equate the US with Sodom? I don't think anyone on this forum has denied this connection. What we have pointed out is that as a Christian who is in the world but not of the world you should expect this. Likewise, we have pointed out that the response, dictated by the Lord Jesus is to preach the gospel so that they might receive a new heart. You don't read what people actually write.

Also, I have not equated the US government with Jezebel, what I have done is equated using the US government in lawsuits by "Christians" against other Christians as something that Jezebel did. I have equated her getting the elders to accuse Naboth the Jezreelite of Blasphemy, stone him, and seize his vineyard to our present day practice of civil lawsuits for slander and libel.

It is fitting that her body becomes fertilizer in Jezreel.

[Drake]

ZNP)" Also, I have not equated the US government with Jezebel, ..."

Post #4.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP)" Also, I have not equated the US government with Jezebel, ..."

Post #4.

Post #4 says that one item of what Jezebel did, hiring 850 prophets is what our government does.

It also says that human government makes ruling without God a science.

Both of these are true, but that does not equate them.

I gave 4 criteria, 4 key items that distinguish Jezebel in post #96

Hiring 850 prophets was not one of the four.

My point is that Jezebel brings the worldly practice into the church.

[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Drake

The Catholic Church cannot build the Body of Christ.

NO institute of man can, or ever will, build the Body of Christ. This is why it is so very important that ALL genuine born again believers resist, at all costs, participating in the initiation, continuation or proliferation of the institutes of man. There is little doubt that the Roman Catholic Church is the epitome of "institutionalized" Christianity.

So this begs the question: Why has the Local Church of Witness Lee followed the Roman Catholic church model and modus operandi in so many major categories? In leadership structure. In policies regulating movement publications. In the creation of a system of fear among the members.

In leadership structure. Witness Lee, at least for the last 20 years of his life, had become the supreme leader of the movement. "The One Minister with the One Ministry for the Age." "The Wise Master Builder". "The Commander in Chief". "The sole Apostle of the First Order". WHAT PART OF POPE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? Upon his death, Lee's published ministry became the Paper Pope. Although the Pope is no longer alive, his College of Cardinals, the self-titled "Blended Brothers", rule and reign in his stead, and most importantly, propagate and enforce The One Publication. Which brings us to the next aspect of the Roman Catholic church:

In policies regulating movement publications. The One Publication edict, - really nothing more and nothing less than a Papal Bull issued against those wanting to turn the movement back to making the Bible the One Publication. Furthermore, "The Ministry", AKA the teachings of and practices established by Witness Lee, serve as the Catechism of the Local Church(es). This wouldn't be such a problem, except for the fact that, just like the Roman Catholic Church, all the members are expected to imbibe every iota with the acceptance and reverence of the Word of God. This one dynamic alone has gotten the Local Church of Witness Lee labeled as a cult of Christianity more than anything else.

In the creation of fear among the members. Admittedly, this dynamic has lessened over the past couple of decades - probably because so many members have departed the movement and have gone on to lead perfectly godly, spiritually fulfilling and fruitful lives. This was is direct contradiction to the warnings of Witness Lee, and more recently, the provably antithetical cautionary claims of LSM president Benson Phillips:

“In any case, do not leave the Lord’s recovery. I can assure you that if you go away from the Lord’s recovery, you will have no way for the process of sanctification to go forward within you. Instead, you will just enter into a bankrupt situation. I know of no one who has left the Lord’s recovery and today is a great spiritual person on the earth. The sanctification process is carried out in the Lord’s recovery”
(The Ministry Magazine Vol. 8, No. 1 Page 189)

Originally Posted by Drake

There is a practical church life arrangement in the New Testament that is completely congruent with the ones in Ephesians. They are symbiotic. Define that to protect the oneness. Practice that and you keep in the oneness. Deviate that and you have divisions and confusion.

The "practical church life arrangement" has been a work in progress for about 2,000 years now. I hate to break the bad news to you my friend, but neither Nee nor Lee came close to cornering the market on such an arrangement. If they had, we wouldn't be discussing such things on this forum today. But alas, there is some valor in the effort, and for this their reward is in heaven. One of the hardest sayings of the Lord Jesus was "Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead".(Matt 8:22) If perhaps Nee and Lee did "define a practical church life arrangement" (and I think, in part, they did) they were never really able to get their followers to truly keep that arrangement. In fact, the years and the decades have declared that God has moved on. The "movement" of The Local Church(es) is no longer moving..and it hasn't been for a very long time.

No doubt, there is not much of a consolation for those who have reached for the best and have fallen short, especially when your intrepid leaders have not only fallen short, they have fallen hard. The dangers and damage are then compounded many fold when the followers of these men turn them into gurus, martyrs, One Apostles, Ministers of the Age, etc, etc.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

NO institute of men can, or ever will, build the Body of Christ. This is why it is so very important that ALL genuine born again believers resist, at all costs, participating in the initiation, continuation or proliferation of the institutes of man. There is little doubt that the Roman Catholic Church is the epitome of "institutionalized" Christianity.

While I agree with much of your post, UntoHim, I just don't agree with the sentiment that we should resist at all costs the institutes of man. Should we resist colleges, schools and hospitals? Perhaps you were just speaking of "religious" institutions. But even then what does that include? Bible colleges, seminaries, ministries, water distributors in Africa? Even the FTTA can be seen as an institute of men. So can Vacation Bible School. So can Local Church Discussions.

If we declare open war on "institutes of men" then nothing is safe. Anything can be categorized as an "institute of men" and anything can be categorized as a "work of God." Who knows for sure which is which? We can see at the extremes. But as I've said, most things don't exist at the extremes.

The problem is not that men build institutions. They always have and always will. And God actually uses some. The problem is the CLAIMS they make about their institutions in order to manipulate and hold onto members and support. Both the RCC and the LCM have claimed to be God's unique church. They are not the only ones to do this and they won't be the last. But this is where the real problem lies because this is infringing on the consciences of believers.

God gives us the freedom to follow our consciences, and if someone feels to start an "institution" who am I to say he or she is wrong? But when anyone starts to claim that their little corner of the CHURCH is the best corner or, worse, the only legitimate corner, then THAT'S when they've crossed the line as far as I'm concerned. That's when they have become a real problem.

And that's what the LCM has done, in spades, and that's why I speak out against them. If they drop their claims and their way of getting hooks into people's minds to control them, then I'll say "God bless you." Until then they are a threat not only to people, but the CHURCH in general.

This post can be viewed as my "manifesto" of why I post here.

[UntoHim]

Igzy,
My post was in direct response to Drake's post:

Originally Posted by Drake

The Catholic Church cannot build the Body of Christ.

My response was only addressing the building of the Body of Christ.

But let me be clear, I am not against any "institutes of men" per se. In fact, as you have pointed out, most of these institutes are helpful and profitable, even to the Christian Church. Seminaries and other para church organizations would be a good example.
-

[Cal]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Igzy,
My post was in direct response to Drake's post:

My response was only addressing the building of the Body of Christ.

But let me be clear, I am not against any "institutes of men" per se. In fact, as you have pointed out, most of these institutes are helpful and profitable, even to the Christian Church. Seminaries and other para church organizations would be a good example.
-

Right, I think what you meant was the institutes are just tools like anything else. They themselves cannot build the Body of Christ. Only God working through people can.

It's like saying a car can't drive to Dallas. No, the car can't, only the driver can. The car is just a tool the driver uses.

But some tools have taken over and become the reason for being. The RCC structure is such a thing, as is the LCM structure.

As the saying goes, a fanatic is someone who redoubles his effort while forgetting his aim. The LCM has lost its aim.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Igzy

The problem is not that men build institutions. They always have and always will. And God actually uses some. The problem is the CLAIMS they make about their institutions in order to manipulate and hold onto members and support. Both the RCC and the LCM have claimed to be God's unique church. They are not the only ones to do this and they won't be the last. But this is where the real problem lies because this is infringing on the consciences of believers.

For me personally, having lived the LC experience through good and bad times, these verses are the most definitive and instructive ...

When the disciples heard this, they became indignant with the two brothers. But Jesus called them all over and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles dominate them, and the men of high position exercise power over them. It must not be like that among you. On the contrary, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life -- a ransom for many." (Matt 20)

Like Igzy said, human institutions are in themselves benign, they can be used for good or for evil. What distinguishes the results are the leaders. Do they serve, or do they lust for power? God Himself is very forgiving of these human institutions. History tells us that they have been used for great good, and unfortunately, for great evil. Jesus Himself never advocated for us to become activists for social change, rather He regularly (throughout scripture indeed) instructed shepherds and leaders how to serve His people.

I think if we investigated every failure of LCM leadership over the decades we would find, not readily understandable happenstance mistakes, but at their source a lust for power and control. This is what so damages God's people. The very things that the Lord repeatedly warned us about.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I think if we investigated every failure of LCM leadership over the decades we would find, not readily understandable happenstance mistakes, but at their source a lust for power and control. This is what so damages God's people. The very things that the Lord repeatedly warned us about.

And, to get back on point a bit, that's what Jezebel represents: an abuse of power. Jezebel claimed to be someone speaking for God. If she was in the mold of the OT Jezebel, which I'm sure she was, she used seductive means to manipulate people.

All these imaginings in this thread of who or what specifically Jezebel is (RCC, US govt) seem beside the point, which is don't be seduced by manipulative teachers and leaders. Well, what's more manipulative than suggesting that one's ministry is indispensable for the completion of God's purpose and that those who ignore it are risking judgment? That's about as seductively manipulative as you can get. That's Jezebel.

This is why I always come back to the freedom of the conscience. Javertical and Drake like to repeat that "you can't have any old meeting," which, by the way, is the fallacy of the appeal to extremes. No one argues for "any old" anything. But what they are really against is anything but what they approve of, which rather than "any old thing" is actually "most things."

But the fact is, yes, just about any meeting sincerely in the name of the Lord will do. And neither Javertical or Drake are qualified or authorized to say otherwise. For them to say they are is to fall into the sin of Jezebel.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Ohio

God Himself is very forgiving of these human institutions. History tells us that they have been used for great good, and unfortunately, for great evil.

Cases in point: The Bible clearly says that governments are instituted by God to keep order.

And Jesus gave the Pharisees credit for "sitting in the seat of Moses" and he told the Jews "to do what they tell you but not what they do." So Jesus knew that there would be religious leaders and that they would preach the word.

What he was saying was see the difference between the truth they teach and how they behave. In other words, as always, have a discerning conscience, don't be manipulated.

Unfortunately, allowing yourself to be manipulated is practically a membership requirement in the LCM. And manipulation is the calling card of Jezebel.

Jezebel, being a vain woman, surely expected nothing but praise from followers. LCM leaders are the same, which is why LCMers never criticize them. Thus are they manipulated by Jezebel.

In "fallen Christianity" however, members have the freedom to realize "this leader is a Jezebel" and follow their consciences and leave. The "uplifted LCM" doesn't allow this though. They empower Jezebel as much as possible, and members that leave are considered traitors to the lovely and perfect "lady."

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

When did I say it was not OK to equate the US with Sodom? I don't think anyone on this forum has denied this connection. What we have pointed out is that as a Christian who is in the world but not of the world you should expect this. Likewise, we have pointed out that the response, dictated by the Lord Jesus is to preach the gospel so that they might receive a new heart. You don't read what people actually write.

Also, I have not equated the US government with Jezebel, what I have done is equated using the US government in lawsuits by "Christians" against other Christians as something that Jezebel did. I have equated her getting the elders to accuse Naboth the Jezreelite of Blasphemy, stone him, and seize his vineyard to our present day practice of civil lawsuits for slander and libel.

It is fitting that her body becomes fertilizer in Jezreel.

Don't you remember our discussions where you tried your darnedest to prove that the US was not Sodom? To you it was not Sodom unless there were fewer than 10 righteous people.

Now you are backtracking on what you said about the US Government and Jezebel in post #88 - you said "To me, Jezebel is the spirit and nature of the current worldly system."

I think the 850 prophets that ate at her table signifies the way we govern now. We have two kinds of "prophets", scientists and pollsters.

We bring in all kinds of experts with their charts, and tables, and predictions and prognostications, etc. We also have the political strategists, pollsters, and spin meisters.

What we don't have is a government according to our conscience. This kind of administration has been very convincingly compared to a psychopath.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't you remember our discussions where you tried your darnedest to prove that the US was not Sodom? To you it was not Sodom unless there were fewer than 10 righteous people.

No, but apparently you do, why don't you quote it for me or refer to the post #. Drake recently demonstrated he had misread what I said, and you also have the same penchant.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

No, but apparently you do, why don't you quote it for me or refer to the post #. Drake recently demonstrated he had misread what I said, and you also have the same penchant.

ZNPaaneah, that suggests an issue with the way you write, it is open to misinterpretation.

#546

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=51438

This is a great point, what really caused God's judgement to fall on Sodom was the lack of any righteous men. God had said that if there had been 10 he wouldn't have destroyed it.

Equating the US with Sodom could only be done if you could argue that in any given city we had less than 10 righteous people.

You were hesitant to equate the US with Sodom. Not as hesitant to call it Jezebel:

"To me, Jezebel is the spirit and nature of the current worldly system."

I am not saying the worldly system is good it is clearly bad. I am saying Jezebel normally has something to do with the people of God. I don't believe the worldly system is Jezebel is correct for that reason, even though the worldly system does exemplify many of the things Jezebel represents. I would say the worldly system is influenced by Jezebel through the Roman Catholic church. I would say Protestantism has been influenced by Jezebel to a limited extent (in as much as they accept the doctrines/practices of Catholicism). But I would not say the worldly system is Jezebel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

ZNPaaneah, that suggests an issue with the way you write, it is open to misinterpretation.

#546

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=51438

This is a great point, what really caused God's judgement to fall on Sodom was the lack of any righteous men. God had said that if there had been 10 he wouldn't have destroyed it.

Equating the US with Sodom could only be done if you could argue that in any given city we had less than 10 righteous people.

Do you disagree with this?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Do you disagree with this?

Yes, to me the US is Sodom because of the widespread acceptance of homosexuality, not because of a certain number of righteous people. I think we discussed this sufficiently in that thread.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

ZNPaaneah, that suggests an issue with the way you write, it is open to misinterpretation.

#546

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=51438

This is a great point, what really caused God's judgement to fall on Sodom was the lack of any righteous men. God had said that if there had been 10 he wouldn't have destroyed it.

Equating the US with Sodom could only be done if you could argue that in any given city we had less than 10 righteous people.

You were hesitant to equate the US with Sodom. Not as hesitant to call it Jezebel:

"To me, Jezebel is the spirit and nature of the current worldly system."

I am not saying the worldly system is good it is clearly bad. I am saying Jezebel normally has something to do with the people of God. I don't believe the worldly system is Jezebel is correct for that reason, even though the worldly system does exemplify many of the things Jezebel represents. I would say the worldly system is influenced by Jezebel through the Roman Catholic church. I would say Protestantism has been influenced by Jezebel to a limited extent (in as much as they accept the doctrines/practices of Catholicism). But I would not say the worldly system is Jezebel.

Post 546 in which thread?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Post 546 in which thread?

Merged Thread: Various Themes by Evangelical , easier to copy paste this:

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=51438

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

ZNPaaneah, that suggests an issue with the way you write, it is open to misinterpretation.

#546

http://localchurchdiscussions.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?p=51438

This is a great point, what really caused God's judgement to fall on Sodom was the lack of any righteous men. God had said that if there had been 10 he wouldn't have destroyed it.

Equating the US with Sodom could only be done if you could argue that in any given city we had less than 10 righteous people.

You were hesitant to equate the US with Sodom. Not as hesitant to call it Jezebel:

"To me, Jezebel is the spirit and nature of the current worldly system."

I am not saying the worldly system is good it is clearly bad. I am saying Jezebel normally has something to do with the people of God. I don't believe the worldly system is Jezebel is correct for that reason, even though the worldly system does exemplify many of the things Jezebel represents. I would say the worldly system is influenced by Jezebel through the Roman Catholic church. I would say Protestantism has been influenced by Jezebel to a limited extent (in as much as they accept the doctrines/practices of Catholicism). But I would not say the worldly system is Jezebel.

There is no "misinterpretation" with what I wrote concerning Sodom and the US. You disagree. That is not a misinterpretation.

You and Drake both have openly agreed with the interpretation that Jezebel includes the woman in Matt 13 who hid the leaven in the fine meal, and with the Great Prostitute, the Great Babylon in Rev 17. This is also what WL taught.

According to our point of view, there are many different countries, nations, and empires. But in the eyes of God, the entire human government from Nimrod to Antichrist is Babylon. This human government—Babylon—has always done three things: rebel against God, exalt man, and worship idols (Gen. 11:4, 9). To worship idols is actually to worship the devil who is behind the idols. Wherever we may go, we will see that human government rebels against God, exalts man, and worships idols. (Life-Study of Daniel, Chapter 4, Section 1)

How is this any different from what I said?

"The entire human government from Nimrod to Antichrist is Babylon" -- read Rev 2

Pergamon -- worldly church -- where Satan's throne is

Thyatira -- know the deep things of Satan.

Against the suffering church there was the synagogue of Satan (2:9); with the worldly church there was the throne of Satan (2:13); and within the apostate church there are “the deep things of satan.” The religion of the synagogue, the world under Satan's throne, and the philosophy of the satanic mysteries are all used by Satan to damage and corrupt the church. (Life-Study of Revelation, Chapter 13, Section 3)

The more you speak the less I think you actually know Witness Lee's ministry.

[Drake]

ZNP,

Suggest reading the footnotes in the Recovery Version on Revelation 17 & 18 for additional clarity on what Brother Lee taught about the two aspects of Babylon.

In short Jezebel refers to the religious aspect in chapter 17 that is Mystery Babylon. . The LS Daniel excerpt you quoted refers to the material Babylon, the Great Babylon in Chapter 18.

Both have their own place and significance but are not interchangeable.

Thanks
Drake

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

ZNP,

Suggest reading the footnotes in the Recovery Version on Revelation 17 & 18 for additional clarity on what Brother Lee taught about the two aspects of Babylon.

In short Jezebel refers to the religious aspect in chapter 17 that is Mystery Babylon. . The LS Daniel excerpt you quoted refers to the material Babylon, the Great Babylon in Chapter 18.

Both have their own place and significance but are not interchangeable.

Thanks
Drake

I am familiar with that and have read it.

My point is that "rebelling against God, worshipping idols, and exalting man" is the spirit of Jezebel and is the spirit of the world.

1. Cutting off the prophets of God = rebelling against God.

2. Telling Ahab that she will give him the vineyard of Naboth = exalting man.

3. The elders and nobles of the city did as Jezebel said = exalting man over God.

4. Teaching my servants to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed to idols is to worship idols.

The basic theme is the worldly system, she might be a variation on the theme, calling herself a prophetess, while others claim to be atheists. But it is still the basic spirit of the world that has operated since Babel.

They "both have their significance and place but are not interchangeable". What does this have to do with anything I have written or quoted? I made my connection to Babel. My quote from Witness Lee was from the Life Study of Daniel on Babel. Do you guys read what I have written?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There is no "misinterpretation" with what I wrote concerning Sodom and the US. You disagree. That is not a misinterpretation.

You and Drake both have openly agreed with the interpretation that Jezebel includes the woman in Matt 13 who hid the leaven in the fine meal, and with the Great Prostitute, the Great Babylon in Rev 17. This is also what WL taught.

According to our point of view, there are many different countries, nations, and empires. But in the eyes of God, the entire human government from Nimrod to Antichrist is Babylon. This human government—Babylon—has always done three things: rebel against God, exalt man, and worship idols (Gen. 11:4, 9). To worship idols is actually to worship the devil who is behind the idols. Wherever we may go, we will see that human government rebels against God, exalts man, and worships idols. (Life-Study of Daniel, Chapter 4, Section 1)

How is this any different from what I said?

The more you speak the less I think you actually know Witness Lee's ministry.

The misinterpretation is about what we believe you said which you deny.

You said US was not Sodom in our previous discussions. You have denied this (or forgotten you said this) in this thread when you said

"When did I say it was not OK to equate the US with Sodom? I don't think anyone on this forum has denied this connection."

In this thread you have also drawn a connection between worldly systems of government and Jezebel. This you seem to have also denied in recent posts.

As Drake said, you have confused Mystery Babylon with material Babylon.

There is a relationship between the two - the Roman Catholic church is the religious arm of the Roman Empire. But we should draw the distinction between the forces of evil at work in the church such as Jezebel, and the forces of evil in the worldly governments.

The distinction should be drawn because in Revelation, Jesus was concerned about Jezebel in the church in Thyatira. He was not concerned about the Roman Empire. It does not say "you have tolerated the Roman Empire and the worldly governments". It is not about material Babylon but Mystery Babylon. There is a relationship between the two but the distinction should be made.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

The misinterpretation is about what we believe you said which you deny.

You said US was not Sodom in our previous discussions. You have denied this (or forgotten you said this) in this thread when you said

"When did I say it was not OK to equate the US with Sodom? I don't think anyone on this forum has denied this connection."

Enough already! Produce the quote. The only quote you have produced did not equate the US with Sodom. It is not a misinterpretation if you can't read english. It doesn't matter what you believe I said, what matters is what I did say.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

In this thread you have also drawn a connection between worldly systems of government and Jezebel. This you seem to have also denied in recent posts.

I have not denied a single word that I have written, I have denied your feeble attempt to interpret it. I did not equate Jezebel to the US, I did equate Jezebel to the spirit of the worldly system. I have provided a very clear quote from Witness Lee where he also made this equation. If you don't like it, say so. If you disagree, fine. But quit accusing me of being deceitful. Provide the quote otherwise it is slander.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

As Drake said, you have confused Mystery Babylon with material Babylon.

I have connected Babel to Babylon. You disagree fine. But you have no credibility with me.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

There is a relationship between the two - the Roman Catholic church is the religious arm of the Roman Empire. But we should draw the distinction between the forces of evil at work in the church such as Jezebel, and the forces of evil in the worldly governments.

The distinction should be drawn because in Revelation, Jesus was concerned about Jezebel in the church in Thyatira. He was not concerned about the Roman Empire. It does not say "you have tolerated the Roman Empire and the worldly governments". It is not about material Babylon but Mystery Babylon. There is a relationship between the two but the distinction should be made.

Wow, spectacular reasoning. You have a woman in Matthew 13 that hides leaven in meal.

Whatever is not of the Spirit or of Christ is leaven. Leaven is something added to make things easy to eat. Without leaven, bread would be hard, and it would be difficult to eat and digest. (Life-Study of Matthew, Chapter 38, Section 4)

It is said that this is like the kingdom of heaven. It doesn't say it is like the material babylon or the religious babylon. But we know it is deceitful. Could it be the deceit and idolatry of a religious system? Sure. Could it be the deceit and idolatry of a worldly, material system? Sure. Is the material babylon of "the spirit of Christ"? If not it is leaven.

But according to your wonderful interpretation we don't need to worry about the material Babylon infecting the church? Where did you get that from? James says that pure religion is to keep yourself unspotted from the world. Is that the religious world or the material world?

Is this really how you teach the Bible? This is unbelievable.

In the church as recorded in Rev 2 you see the synagogue of Satan, then the throne of Satan, then the deep things of Satan.

Satan's worldly system is attacking and now infecting the church.