Jezebel -- why we should know who she is.

ZNPaaneah · 12-09-2016, 08:04 PM

1Kings 16:31 And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Sidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.

You can't understand who Jezebel is unless you first understand the sins of Jeroboam, because Jezebel essentially takes the sins of Jeroboam to another level.

After King Solomon died his son was a poor heir and made a major blunder with the people. This opened the door for Jeroboam to set up another kingdom with the ten tribes of Israel, dividing Israel into two kingdoms. This division appears to be of God. However, it might have turned out as a temporary rebuke with the nation reconciling after a few months had it not been for Jeroboam setting up golden calves as idols and commanding the nation to ignore God's word. This is referred to as "the sins of Jeroboam".

So Jeroboam told the Israelites that it was the two golden calves that brought them out of Egypt, Ahab takes this to the next level, ditching God altogether, taking a heathen wife and serving Baal and worshipping Baal.

This is how we are first introduced to Jezebel. She takes the sins of Jeroboam to a new level, and she is fully associated with serving and worshipping Baal.

Evangelical · 12-09-2016, 11:06 PM

Jezebel represents the corruptive influences within the denominations or the local church, things of a idolatrous and sometimes sexual nature. It is something for every believer to overcome no matter what denomination or not-denomination they attend.

I read that here:

http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-dece..._pagan-temples

ZNPaaneah · 12-10-2016, 06:49 AM

1Kings 18:19 Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the Asherah four hundred, that eat at Jezebel’s table.

Jezebel fed (hired) 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of Asherah. This was not because she was generous or charitable, there is no evidence of this. What she did is exactly what our leaders do today.

They will hire a cabinet, experts, consultants, data specialists, pollsters, prognosticators, people to give them security briefings, economic briefings, with charts and tables predicting future outcomes (that is prophecy)

They advise leaders on how to speak to the public (that is prophecy). They get focus groups and determine what words to speak, how to spin it, how to sell it.

They spy on enemies and advise how to destroy them.

Jezebel made ruling without God a science.

Drake · 12-10-2016, 06:59 AM

The basic sin of Jeroboam is that he established a worship center that was not in the place appointed by God. This opened the door to all the other sins.

God prescribed the place, time, and methods for worshipping God. Jeroboam set up a his own place and method. God said in this way, and Jeroboam said, that way will do just as well. He disregarded God's prescription of worship for one of his own preference.

Drake

Cal · 12-10-2016, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

The basic sin of Jeroboam is that he established a worship center that was not in the place appointed by God. This opened the door to all the other sins.

God prescribed the place, time, and methods for worshipping God. Jeroboam set up a his own place and method. God said in this way, and Jeroboam said, that way will do just as well. He disregarded God's prescription of worship for one of his own preference.

Drake

God's prescription for worship in the NT is "in spirit and in truth." Nothing more, nothing less.

Worship in spirit and truth is thus the proper NT "place," and thus corresponds to the OT temple. The temple is the house of God, which is now the church. Thus, worshiping in spirit and truth implies the church is there, especially when two or three are gathered. Thus no need for "the local ground" to have church.

Since Jesus made it clear the proper place of worship is only "in spirit and truth," insisting on the local ground could be viewed as actually setting up a different place of worship than Jesus prescribed, and thus could be viewed as a sin like Jeroboam's. But clearly the temple was not the only place of worship. The Jews established synagogues, which Jesus attended reverently. Thus the strict idea that the temple was the only proper place of worship is an error.

So leveraging the "proper place of worship" as a pretext to pushing the local ground is both invalid and self-nullifying.

If you insist the temple was the only proper place of worship, then it must be that "in spirit and truth" implies that the temple, thus the church, is present and the local ground is unneeded.

If you don't insist the temple was the only proper place of worship then that weakens the local ground argument as well.

ZNPaaneah · 12-10-2016, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

God's prescription for worship in the NT is "in spirit and in truth." Nothing more, nothing less.

Worship in spirit and truth is thus the proper NT "place," and thus corresponds to the OT temple. The temple is the house of God, which is now the church. Thus, worshiping in spirit and truth implies the church is there, especially when two or three are gathered. Thus no need for "the local ground" to have church.

Since Jesus made is clear the proper place of worship is only "in spirit and truth," insisting on the local ground is actually setting up a different place of worship that Jesus prescribed, and thus could be viewed as a sin like Jeroboam's.

Spirit and truth should immediately remind us of Matthew 18. The proper spirit is that of the shepherd seeking the lost sheep, the improper spirit is the one causing the little ones to stumble. Meeting in truth is when you are obedient to the Lord to faithfully deal with sins. Covering them up, ignoring them, that is not truth.

It is in this context that Jesus says "wherever two or three are gathered together in my name, I am in the midst".

The context is that they are meeting in Spirit and truth. That is the prerequisite to "meeting in the name of Jesus".

One thing that most people forget is that Matthew 18 was Jesus answering a question from the disciples. The entire chapter is his answer.

Ohio · 12-10-2016, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igzy

God's prescription for worship in the NT is "in spirit and in truth." Nothing more, nothing less.

Worship in spirit and truth is thus the proper NT "place," and thus corresponds to the OT temple. The temple is the house of God, which is now the church. Thus, worshiping in spirit and truth implies the church is there, especially when two or three are gathered. Thus no need for "the local ground" to have church.

Since Jesus made it clear the proper place of worship is only "in spirit and truth," insisting on the local ground could be viewed as actually setting up a different place of worship than Jesus prescribed, and thus could be viewed as a sin like Jeroboam's. But clearly the temple was not the only place of worship. The Jews established synagogues, which Jesus attended reverently. Thus the strict idea that the temple was the only proper place of worship is an error.

The Lord made it clear to the Samaritan women that any physical or earthly place, even one prescribed in scripture, was no longer valid in the New Covenant time, "which is coming and now is." (John 4.24) Whether a church building, a synagogue, a mountain, the temple, or even the boundaries of a city -- all are done away with in the New Covenant, established through the cross of Christ. Old Testament instructions no longer apply here.

What is crucial is "in spirit and truth." The preposition "in" describes the only possible place to worship the Father. Are you in spirit? Are you in truth? These are the questions we all must ask. Any connection to an organization, a ministry, a minister, or a program cannot validate nor invalidate your worship of the Father.

I have worshiped the Father receiving communion at a Catholic wedding mass, in a home meeting, traveling in a car, in my bed, in a university examination, being berated by brothers, being outcast by family. When we consider all of God's children, there is just no limit to the "places" our Father has been worshiped in spirit and reality. When, however, I consider how sectarian leaders, like those of the LCM, mandate self-serving practices on the children of God, I wonder how often we completely missed the mark.

Tonight we are traveling to an old schoolhouse to have a "love feast" or Christmas dinner with some brothers and sisters we occasionally meet with. It is in the middle of no where. It is an unincorporated town or village. There is no "city" out there. There are no city boundaries. No mayor, no Walmart, no gas station. Definitely not "good material" for LC expansion. But God is there! We can worship in spirit and reality. We can gather in His name.

ZNPaaneah · 12-10-2016, 03:58 PM

1Kings 19:1-2 And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets with the sword. Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to-morrow about this time.

All of the prophets are killed as the result of a single act of God. Think about that, the experts spend billions for years on a levy system for the Mississippi, then as a result of a single act of God like Katrina the whole world realizes they have been lied to for years.

Or think about the Haiti earthquake which exposed all the shoddy workmanship, government corruption, etc.

Or who could forget the ridiculous growth projections made when Witness Lee rolled out the New Way. Now al that is left to complete this is for fire to fall from heaven.

2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

She hired evil men and impostors for the purpose of deceiving the nation of Israel, but in the end she thought Elijah was just like one of them. She spent her life deceiving and in the end she was deceived, unable to discern a prophet of God from a false prophet.

Evangelical · 12-11-2016, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio

The Lord made it clear to the Samaritan women that any physical or earthly place, even one prescribed in scripture, was no longer valid in the New Covenant time, "which is coming and now is." (John 4.24) Whether a church building, a synagogue, a mountain, the temple, or even the boundaries of a city -- all are done away with in the New Covenant, established through the cross of Christ. Old Testament instructions no longer apply here.

What is crucial is "in spirit and truth." The preposition "in" describes the only possible place to worship the Father. Are you in spirit? Are you in truth? These are the questions we all must ask. Any connection to an organization, a ministry, a minister, or a program cannot validate nor invalidate your worship of the Father.

I have worshiped the Father receiving communion at a Catholic wedding mass, in a home meeting, traveling in a car, in my bed, in a university examination, being berated by brothers, being outcast by family. When we consider all of God's children, there is just no limit to the "places" our Father has been worshiped in spirit and reality. When, however, I consider how sectarian leaders, like those of the LCM, mandate self-serving practices on the children of God, I wonder how often we completely missed the mark.

Tonight we are traveling to an old schoolhouse to have a "love feast" or Christmas dinner with some brothers and sisters we occasionally meet with. It is in the middle of no where. It is an unincorporated town or village. There is no "city" out there. There are no city boundaries. No mayor, no Walmart, no gas station. Definitely not "good material" for LC expansion. But God is there! We can worship in spirit and reality. We can gather in His name.

You are trying to say that the view of locality contradicts John 4:24 but this is not so. We worship in spirit and truth and congregate on the basis of locality. What you say regarding worship matches Lee's commentary on John 4:24.

ZNPaaneah · 12-10-2016, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake

The basic sin of Jeroboam is that he established a worship center that was not in the place appointed by God. This opened the door to all the other sins.

God prescribed the place, time, and methods for worshipping God. Jeroboam set up a his own place and method. God said in this way, and Jeroboam said, that way will do just as well. He disregarded God's prescription of worship for one of his own preference.

Drake

Yes, but the Bible never refers to the "basic sin" or the "sin of Jeroboam" but to the sins of Jeroboam.

1. Establishing a worship center is one

2. Causing the division to be permanent is a second.

The second is very difficult because it was God that told Jeroboam to initiate the process and it was prophesied that he would get the ten tribes to follow him. But God never told him to make this permanent or set up his own worship center. God's intention may have been to rebuke the nation of Israel but then to have them repent. Jeroboam did everything in his power to prevent them from being reconciled.

This brings to mind Jonah who didn't want to see his enemy reconciled to God.

Very often those that talk the most about oneness and the importance of oneness are actually the ones that don't want God's children to be reconciled. Oneness becomes a golden idol they make sacrifices to. Hence obedience is better than sacrifice.

The sins of Jeroboam are similar to the sins of Saul. Disobedience, envy, jealousy, idolatry, witchcraft.

12-09-2016, 08:04 PM	#1
ZNPaaneah Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 7,105	Re: Jezebel -- taking the sins of Jeroboam to a new level 1Kings 16:31 And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Sidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him. You can't understand who Jezebel is unless you first understand the sins of Jeroboam, because Jezebel essentially takes the sins of Jeroboam to another level. After King Solomon died his son was a poor heir and made a major blunder with the people. This opened the door for Jeroboam to set up another kingdom with the ten tribes of Israel, dividing Israel into two kingdoms. This division appears to be of God. However, it might have turned out as a temporary rebuke with the nation reconciling after a few months had it not been for Jeroboam setting up golden calves as idols and commanding the nation to ignore God's word. This is referred to as "the sins of Jeroboam". So Jeroboam told the Israelites that it was the two golden calves that brought them out of Egypt, Ahab takes this to the next level, ditching God altogether, taking a heathen wife and serving Baal and worshipping Baal. This is how we are first introduced to Jezebel. She takes the sins of Jeroboam to a new level, and she is fully associated with serving and worshipping Baal.

12-09-2016, 11:06 PM	#2
Evangelical Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 3,965	Re: Jezebel -- why we should know who she is. Jezebel represents the corruptive influences within the denominations or the local church, things of a idolatrous and sometimes sexual nature. It is something for every believer to overcome no matter what denomination or not-denomination they attend. I read that here: http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-dece..._pagan-temples

12-10-2016, 06:49 AM	#3
ZNPaaneah Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 7,105	Re: Jezebel -- why we should know who she is. 1Kings 18:19 Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the Asherah four hundred, that eat at Jezebel’s table. Jezebel fed (hired) 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of Asherah. This was not because she was generous or charitable, there is no evidence of this. What she did is exactly what our leaders do today. They will hire a cabinet, experts, consultants, data specialists, pollsters, prognosticators, people to give them security briefings, economic briefings, with charts and tables predicting future outcomes (that is prophecy) They advise leaders on how to speak to the public (that is prophecy). They get focus groups and determine what words to speak, how to spin it, how to sell it. They spy on enemies and advise how to destroy them. Jezebel made ruling without God a science.

12-10-2016, 06:59 AM	#4
Drake Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 2,075	Re: Jezebel -- why we should know who she is. The basic sin of Jeroboam is that he established a worship center that was not in the place appointed by God. This opened the door to all the other sins. God prescribed the place, time, and methods for worshipping God. Jeroboam set up a his own place and method. God said in this way, and Jeroboam said, that way will do just as well. He disregarded God's prescription of worship for one of his own preference. Drake

12-10-2016, 03:58 PM	#8
ZNPaaneah Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 7,105	Re: Jezebel -- why we should know who she is. 1Kings 19:1-2 And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets with the sword. Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to-morrow about this time. All of the prophets are killed as the result of a single act of God. Think about that, the experts spend billions for years on a levy system for the Mississippi, then as a result of a single act of God like Katrina the whole world realizes they have been lied to for years. Or think about the Haiti earthquake which exposed all the shoddy workmanship, government corruption, etc. Or who could forget the ridiculous growth projections made when Witness Lee rolled out the New Way. Now al that is left to complete this is for fire to fall from heaven. 2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. She hired evil men and impostors for the purpose of deceiving the nation of Israel, but in the end she thought Elijah was just like one of them. She spent her life deceiving and in the end she was deceived, unable to discern a prophet of God from a false prophet.