Arthur M. Casci Testimony

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

My post was an attempt to redefine what "another" means in our context, not more reading material from the mighty amazon.

Yeah. Dopey me. I should have explained myself ... and made the point I was hoping others would get.

And that is:

From the beginning, since Jesus, down thru the millenia, there's been many different Christ movements. Thus: One Jesus, many Christs.

And yes, as you pointed out, Paul warned and cried about the fact that he obviously knew was going to happen to the Jesus Movement; that it would arise "of your own selves."

And it happened. It was actually already going on. Christianity, as history attests, diversified. In the early days of the movement different gospels were flying all around. Thus, the heresy wars of the early church fathers. And thus, The First Council of Nicaea ... and the Roman Emperor Constantine ... and Christianity became the state religion.

But all efforts to contain the diversification of Christianity failed. Even burning at the stake and torture failed to do the job.

And the diversification of Christianity eventually exploded. Today there are over 33,000 sects of Christianity.

And Nee and Lee and their Recovery Movement is just one more sect among thousands.

I remember, we use to say, all of Christianity was a religion. But the local church movement wasn't religion at all, it was claimed. Ended up they, we, were more religious than the average bear, than the average Christian.

I think Arthur Casci makes a point. If yer gonna go for something like the Nee and Lee movement, just get it over with and go back to the Holy Mother Church. It's got the orthodox traditions going way back. And it's proven to be so zealous and devoted to Jesus that, they are, or have been, willing to kill and die for it.

Neither Nee nor Lee were that given.

[aron]

Originally Posted by awareness

If yer gonna go for something like the Nee and Lee movement, just get it over with and go back to the Holy Mother Church. It's got the orthodox traditions going way back. And it's proven to be so zealous and devoted to Jesus that, they are, or have been, willing to kill and die for it..

Seems to me you're conflating the orthodox church w/the RCC. They split over 1,000 years ago.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by aron

Seems to me you're conflating the orthodox church w/the RCC. They split over 1,000 years ago.

I was thinking of whatever Arthur was speaking about when he stated:

"Give me Old and Stale. The old faith of the One Holy Christian Church and the stale bread of the body and blood of Christ in Holy communion."

I agree, however, that I'm not getting it yet.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by awareness

I was thinking of whatever Arthur was speaking about when he stated:

"Give me Old and Stale. The old faith of the One Holy Christian Church and the stale bread of the body and blood of Christ in Holy communion."

I agree, however, that I'm not getting it yet.

It may be "old and stale" in some people's minds, but at least we know how it relates to the Jesus that the Bible teaches.

It seems that it is only truly "old and stale" if you are needing "new and fresh" no matter where it comes from. While the message of Christ will continually have to be repackaged to meet different cultures (think Paul talking about the unknown God), especially as culture changes, the message inside of the package does not change. Yet it is as new as ever despite it constancy. It does not require a pep rally or a cheer-leading squad. It does not require that we chant any words, even the name of the Lord, until we "get into our spirits" (whatever that means).

Running from "old and stale" is one way to end out where the Christ that is followed is of uncertain pedigree. Where there is sufficient change in the thrust of His teaching that some might question whether we are talking about the same Christ.

[awareness]

How do we define "another gospel?"

[Cal]

Originally Posted by awareness

How do we define "another gospel?"

Read Galatians.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Gal 1:6-9

Paul's gospel was the gift of Christ crucified and resurrected. Crucified for our sins, resurrected to bring us to life. That's it. Another gospel in the case of Galatians is the gospel of working your way back to God, i.e. the gospel of salvation by works, not by grace.