"Early Nee" vs. "Later Nee"

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Dave

This is not unusual and it is not necessarily related to Christian groups. As people age if they don't stay relevant to the world around them they will become lost in their past. Unfortunately, from what you are saying these older Christians became lost as a result of unrealistic expectations for how they should be treated. In addition, they may have well helped many of these young people to come to the US and funded some of their housing etc. Their bitterness may be fully understandable.

Young people will easily develop the attitude that they know everything and this is not only true in the LC but in general. I am sure I was like that when I was young and in fact while I was in the LC I thought my parents were clueless. I learned otherwise later. Of course, in this instance it sounds like a problem with the attitude of the LC towards older Christians.

It feels almost like those running the show in the LC know that young people are going to develop a "know it all" attitude, and then they prey upon it. When I was a little younger, I know that I had this kind of attitude a little bit. If I had followed the path they push everyone down that leads to the FTTA, I might be a totally different person. Many times I have heard the brothers make statements such as "2 years in the training (FTTA) is the equivalent of 20 years in the church life". These statements are obviously nonsense, but what kind of ideas does this give young people? When I heard things like this, it sounded enticing to me. What young person doesn't want a "fast pass" in life to become someone special?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It feels almost like those running the show in the LC know that young people are going to develop a "know it all" attitude, and then they prey upon it. When I was a little younger, I know that I had this kind of attitude a little bit. If I had followed the path they push everyone down that leads to the FTTA, I might be a totally different person. Many times I have heard the brothers make statements such as "2 years in the training (FTTA) is the equivalent of 20 years in the church life". These statements are obviously nonsense, but what kind of ideas does this give young people? When I heard things like this, it sounded enticing to me. What young person doesn't want a "fast pass" in life to become someone special?

15 years ago i heard Titus Chu say that he had asked the Blended Trainers from the FTT's for statistics of all their graduates. What a shocker that must have been! Imagine LSM being forced to reveal how many of their trainees are no longer in the Recovery, how many are loving the world, how many have gone to Christianity, how many have mental health issues, etc.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

15 years ago i heard Titus Chu say that he had asked the Blended Trainers from the FTT's for statistics of all their graduates. What a shocker that must have been! Imagine LSM being forced to reveal how many of their trainees are no longer in the Recovery, how many are loving the world, how many have gone to Christianity, how many have mental health issues, etc.

Yes bro Ohio there has definitely been carnage in the wake of Witness Lee. And most of them we won't ever hear from.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes bro Ohio there has definitely been carnage in the wake of Witness Lee. And most of them we won't ever hear from.

I'm not just talking about your typical every day LC-carnage, but the secret results of their much tauted post-college degree Full Time Training in Anaheim -- FTTA.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

15 years ago i heard Titus Chu say that he had asked the Blended Trainers from the FTT's for statistics of all their graduates. What a shocker that must have been! Imagine LSM being forced to reveal how many of their trainees are no longer in the Recovery, how many are loving the world, how many have gone to Christianity, how many have mental health issues, etc.

Did Titus feel that the statistics for his training were better than that of the FTT?

As far as the FTTA is concerned, everyone is pressured to go, that is the underlying problem. When people who were pressured to attend the training finish, and have no desire to serve or do anything else, it is frusterating for everyone to see that. How does it make saints feel who gave their money generously so that person could go?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Did Titus feel that the statistics for his training were better than that of the FTT?

As far as the FTTA is concerned, everyone is pressured to go, that is the underlying problem. When people who were pressured to attend the training finish, and have no desire to serve or do anything else, it is frusterating for everyone to see that. How does it make saints feel who gave their money generously so that person could go?

Obviously. More focused on scripture. Less focused on keeping tidy underwear in drawers. (There's a story i have told about that.) Titus convinced his followers that he alone remained true to the vision of "local" churches. There was some promotion, but less than at LSM.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obviously. More focused on scripture. Less focused on keeping tidy underwear in drawers. (There's a story i have told about that.) Titus convinced his followers that he alone remained true to the vision of "local" churches. There was some promotion, but less than at LSM.

Tell it again Sam.... I mean Ohio!

Titus should have convinced his followers to remain true to their SAVIOR, Jesus Christ, instead of the vision of the 'local' churches. Maybe then, God would have blessed the 'local' churches!

and btw...just for you, Ohio.... GO SPURS GO!
Hope you are doing very well!

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

Tell it again Sam.... I mean Ohio!

Titus should have convinced his followers to remain true to their SAVIOR, Jesus Christ, instead of the vision of the 'local' churches. Maybe then, God would have blessed the 'local' churches!

and btw...just for you, Ohio.... GO SPURS GO!
Hope you are doing very well!

Cavs too!

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Cavs too!

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Obviously. More focused on scripture. Less focused on keeping tidy underwear in drawers. (There's a story i have told about that.) Titus convinced his followers that he alone remained true to the vision of "local" churches. There was some promotion, but less than at LSM.

I heard about them checking underwear in drawers from someone who went to the FTTT in the 80's. I don't know if Anaheim is that strict as well, but it should't come as a surprise that so many get messed up. The church isn't the military. Lee must of taken that well known hymn too literally "Onward Christian Soldiers". Come to think of it they were alway into that sort of thing, gospel marches, victory songs etc.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I heard about them checking underwear in drawers from someone who went to the FTTT in the 80's. I don't know if Anaheim is that strict as well, but it should't come as a surprise that so many get messed up. The church isn't the military. Lee must of taken that well known hymn too literally "Onward Christian Soldiers". Come to think of it they were alway into that sort of thing, gospel marches, victory songs etc.

I got a formal citation for not having all my ducks (i mean socks) in a row.

Some of the brothers i was with were insulted by the inspections. LSM had their young kids go thru the drawers of elders and deacons to check for compliance to regulations which we were never informed of. Later on i eventually learned that it was all part of Lee's (father and or son) master plan to bring all the churches and all the brothers under their subjection.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I got a formal citation for not having all my ducks (i mean socks) in a row.

Some of the brothers i was with were insulted by the inspections. LSM had their young kids go thru the drawers of elders and deacons to check for compliance to regulations which we were never informed of. Later on i eventually learned that it was all part of Lee's (father and or son) master plan to bring all the churches and all the brothers under their subjection.

Sometimes it's hard to believe the hypocrisy of it all. I'm sure that Lee must have known he was playing with fire by asking young brothers to "train" older brothers. What did he think was going to happen? I was too young to have any idea what was going on back then, but how disrespectful it must have been for Lee to have treated brothers like that! I'm sure many sacrificed a lot to leave the US and go to Taiwan to attend the training there.

This reminds me of a Lee quote that I had read awhile back:

"I am very concerned for our full-time training. Do we train the young ones to gain people or to regulate people? We have to reconsider our ways, as Haggai said (1:5). Our way is not right; something is wrong." A Word of Love to the Co-workers, Elders, Lovers, and Seekers of the Lord, Pg 41

Lee really was the biggest hypocrite. He had a way of never placing any blame on himself. He really should have said the following: "Do I train the young ones to gain people or to regulate people? I have to reconsider my ways, as Haggai said (1:5). My way is not right; something is wrong"

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It feels almost like those running the show in the LC know that young people are going to develop a "know it all" attitude, and then they prey upon it. When I was a little younger, I know that I had this kind of attitude a little bit. If I had followed the path they push everyone down that leads to the FTTA, I might be a totally different person. Many times I have heard the brothers make statements such as "2 years in the training (FTTA) is the equivalent of 20 years in the church life". These statements are obviously nonsense, but what kind of ideas does this give young people? When I heard things like this, it sounded enticing to me. What young person doesn't want a "fast pass" in life to become someone special?

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC ! But most kids be it unsaved or saved have a 'know it all', rebellious attitude until they start working, paying bills and paying taxes, and get their hearts crushed.

That's when people who were raised to believe in God, begin to humble themselves...or become whiners and complainers if they are not seeking HIM for counsel, direction, Wisdom, Peace, Patience and Love.

God bless everyone here !
Carol

[awareness]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC ! But most kids be it unsaved or saved have a 'know it all', rebellious attitude until they start working, paying bills and paying taxes, and get their hearts crushed.

That's when people who were raised to believe in God, begin to humble themselves...or become whiners and complainers if they are not seeking HIM for counsel, direction, Wisdom, Peace, Patience and Love.

God bless everyone here !
Carol

Amen Carol .... Amen...

[Cal]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC !

Are you talking about Ohio?

[Truth]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC ! But most kids be it unsaved or saved have a 'know it all', rebellious attitude until they start working, paying bills and paying taxes, and get their hearts crushed.

So true! Regretfully, that was me. Now that I have kids, how do I help them so that they don't have this kind of attitude? Or at least to a lesser extent? Any suggestions welcome!