"Early Nee" vs. "Later Nee"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I heard about them checking underwear in drawers from someone who went to the FTTT in the 80's. I don't know if Anaheim is that strict as well, but it should't come as a surprise that so many get messed up. The church isn't the military. Lee must of taken that well known hymn too literally "Onward Christian Soldiers". Come to think of it they were alway into that sort of thing, gospel marches, victory songs etc.

I got a formal citation for not having all my ducks (i mean socks) in a row.

Some of the brothers i was with were insulted by the inspections. LSM had their young kids go thru the drawers of elders and deacons to check for compliance to regulations which we were never informed of. Later on i eventually learned that it was all part of Lee's (father and or son) master plan to bring all the churches and all the brothers under their subjection.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I got a formal citation for not having all my ducks (i mean socks) in a row.

Some of the brothers i was with were insulted by the inspections. LSM had their young kids go thru the drawers of elders and deacons to check for compliance to regulations which we were never informed of. Later on i eventually learned that it was all part of Lee's (father and or son) master plan to bring all the churches and all the brothers under their subjection.

Sometimes it's hard to believe the hypocrisy of it all. I'm sure that Lee must have known he was playing with fire by asking young brothers to "train" older brothers. What did he think was going to happen? I was too young to have any idea what was going on back then, but how disrespectful it must have been for Lee to have treated brothers like that! I'm sure many sacrificed a lot to leave the US and go to Taiwan to attend the training there.

This reminds me of a Lee quote that I had read awhile back:

"I am very concerned for our full-time training. Do we train the young ones to gain people or to regulate people? We have to reconsider our ways, as Haggai said (1:5). Our way is not right; something is wrong." A Word of Love to the Co-workers, Elders, Lovers, and Seekers of the Lord, Pg 41

Lee really was the biggest hypocrite. He had a way of never placing any blame on himself. He really should have said the following: "Do I train the young ones to gain people or to regulate people? I have to reconsider my ways, as Haggai said (1:5). My way is not right; something is wrong"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Sometimes it's hard to believe the hypocrisy of it all. I'm sure that Lee must have known he was playing with fire by asking young brothers to "train" older brothers. What did he think was going to happen? I was too young to have any idea what was going on back then, but how disrespectful it must have been for Lee to have treated brothers like that! I'm sure many sacrificed a lot to leave the US and go to Taiwan to attend the training there.

Lee really was the biggest hypocrite. He had a way of never placing any blame on himself. He really should have said the following: "Do I train the young ones to gain people or to regulate people? I have to reconsider my ways, as Haggai said (1:5). My way is not right; something is wrong"

Exactly!

We were continually advised during that 40 day stint in Taipei that "this training is Brother Lee's training." Hence, nothing whatsoever was to be questioned. It was run military style which was portrayed as the new standard of spiritualism -- every morning rise early, put on our uniforms, march us to the park for exercises. In the first meeting, one elder was publicly shamed for not wearing his official "LSM" neck tie.

Lee not only never took responsibility for anything, but used his platform to launch attacks at those around him. He "owned" the Recovery, but never owned up to any of its problems.

Lee in the "new way" was definitely shaking up the entire system. He was purging the ranks. He was lording it over all, forcing submissions to his ultimate authority. He had become almost megalomaniacal. Coupled with his profligate son Philip, Lee had the "muscle" he needed to carry out his whims.

[awareness]

Didn't I see a video of Lee admitting he did most from his natural man? Or am I just imagining it?

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Lee not only never took responsibility for anything, but used his platform to launch attacks at those around him. He "owned" the Recovery, but never owned up to any of its problems.

Seems some of the blended brothers have followed suit using the podium as an opportunity to launch attacks under the guise of building up the Body.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Terry

Seems some of the blended brothers have followed suit using the podium as an opportunity to launch attacks under the guise of building up the Body.

I never understood this was going on until after I stopped attending semi-annual trainings. Some things did strike me as odd, like the BB's insisting their publication company should being the only one, and using that as a basis to attack certain churches. I'm just surprised that I didn't catch on sooner.

[aron]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I never understood this was going on until after I stopped attending semi-annual trainings. Some things did strike me as odd, like the BB's insisting their publication company should being the only one, and using that as a basis to attack certain churches. I'm just surprised that I didn't catch on sooner.

They count on you missing the differences between "early" and "later" speaking, or else they would have no ministry. Reminds me of WL, who in Exodus Life-Study (re: Balaam) said that God sees no wrong in the church. Later WL blasted the church for its poor condition and threatened to cease his ministry. Suddenly we were 'dead' and 'dormant' and so forth.

It was a ministry of convenience. WL could speak out of both sides of his mouth and we were too mesmerized to see the discrepancies.

I also remember WL touting the church, under "the vision of the church". Supposedly God was being expressed in the church, and ruling creation in the church, and defeating Satan by the church. If that is so, then why did Martin Luther leave the RCC? Why did Wesley leave the Anglicans? Why did Nee leave his church? "Oh, because that was about the truth."

So you leave the church because its about the truth, then once you've established your own denomination with "lovers of Jesus affiliated with the ministries of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee" then suddenly its all about the church. Very nice; a little sleight of hand action there, no?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by aron

. . . Reminds me of WL, who in Exodus Life-Study (re: Balaam) said that God sees no wrong in the church. Later WL blasted the church for its poor condition and threatened to cease his ministry. Suddenly we were 'dead' and 'dormant' and so forth.

I realize that I am repeating what aron said later in his post, but when I read that little bit, it is so obvious to me that Lee's version of "the church" is very different from God's.

First, he dares to dismiss so much of the true body of Christ as even being in the church. The only "church" that Lee thinks God sees no wrong in is the one that built its foundation on the dirt (rather than on Christ) according to the edicts of a couple of false prophets (Nee and Lee).

Second, it is clear from the writings of Paul and from Revelation that there is much that can be wrong in the church. And God sees it and calls it for what it is. And he calls them all for their issues, from the best to the worst. Every one of them has things to overcome. Even where the problems are apparently not dire enough to list. There is always something to overcome. Most commonly for many of us, it is ourselves. Not like Lee said — to have no self — but we are, and will be, always contending with our own evil desires. That we must overcome.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Sometimes it's hard to believe the hypocrisy of it all. I'm sure that Lee must have known he was playing with fire by asking young brothers to "train" older brothers. What did he think was going to happen? I was too young to have any idea what was going on back then, but how disrespectful it must have been for Lee to have treated brothers like that! I'm sure many sacrificed a lot to leave the US and go to Taiwan to attend the training there.

At the core I believe, Witness Lee wanted brothers who were loyal to him first and foremost.
In the 70's Witness Lee had Max to go throughout the country and mess up elders because Lee thought they were too religious. By the late 80's, many of the elders Lee had trained or appointed during the 1960's were now in their mid-late 50's. They were resistant to the culture change LSM was to implement. Just like there's a Early Nee Later Nee, there was also an Early Lee Later Lee. The older elders needed to be replaced by younger elders. Such was the late 80's slogan "Out with the old. In with the new."

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

At the core I believe, Witness Lee wanted brothers who were loyal to him first and foremost.
In the 70's Witness Lee had Max to go throughout the country and mess up elders because Lee thought they were too religious. By the late 80's, many of the elders Lee had trained or appointed during the 1960's were now in their mid-late 50's. They were resistant to the culture change LSM was to implement. Just like there's a Early Nee Later Nee, there was also an Early Lee Later Lee. The older elders needed to be replaced by younger elders. Such was the late 80's slogan "Out with the old. In with the new."

After living thru those years of endless changes, that saying could be rephrased "today's new, is tomorrow's old."

I personally witnessed many conflicts where leading brothers, who were a few weeks behind LSM, were criticized by young people, who were only a few days behind. With today's social media, that time lag would have been reduced to seconds.