"Early Nee" vs. "Later Nee"

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

No, this is for the semi-annual trainings. I presume that this requirement is not strictly enforced, otherwise I think many would take issue with it.

LSM always seemed to have an aversion to the weak, the poor, and the beggarly things of the world, like the old and the young, widows and orphans, handicapped and challenged. Perhaps they should reread the gospel stories about those whom the Lord Jesus paid special attention to.

This brings up the fallout from one of the most damaging movements that ever came forth from Witness Lee himself during the heyday of the so-called "New Way" back in the 80's -- that the Recovery was supposed to be the "army of God," and Lee himself was designated "Commander-in-Chief." Lee and his boys instituted military style regulations for the trainings. So much collateral ensued from this misguided thought.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

LSM always seemed to have an aversion to the weak, the poor, and the beggarly things of the world, like the old and the young, widows and orphans, handicapped and challenged. Perhaps they should reread the gospel stories about those whom the Lord Jesus paid special attention to.

From what I've learned of local church history, there is a consistent trend of setting aside an older generation in place of a younger, inexperienced group. I see this even today. College students, FTTA trainees and graduates are pampered like there is no tomorrow. Older saints are neglected.

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

And some of them finally move on. We may think "why not sooner?" but later is better than never.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

In any family, a certain amount of this is normal. Life always tends to revolve around the children.

But what LSM did during the "New Way" was akin to Mao's Red Guard Youth movement during the cultural revolution from the mid-60's to the mid-70's. Many former LC members have confirmed this. Here was the movement's stated manifesto:

Chairman Mao has defined our future as an armed revolutionary youth organization...So if Chairman Mao is our Red-Commander-in-Chief and we are his Red soldiers, who can stop us? First we will make China red from inside out and then we will help the working people of other countries make the world red...And then the whole universe

The arrogance that the young people displayed to the older saints during the "new way" was often just despicable. Both the young and the old were damaged, many permanently. With the likes of the profligate Philip Lee at the helm I suppose it was understandable.

For example, during the summer 1987 young people's training in Irving, which followed a trip to Taipei, the young people were coached by LSM trainers to taunt the older saints into being baptized, ridiculing them as "old and dead." Our LC had two graduating HS seniors (sisters) attending that training for the whole summer. Unfortunately they were so confused, they returned shipwrecked and left the faith. This happened to many other young ones returning to their LC's, and LSM blamed the problems on the LC's.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The arrogance that the young people displayed to the older saints during the "new way" was often just despicable. Both the young and the old were damaged, many permanently. With the likes of the profligate Philip Lee at the helm I suppose it was understandable.

For example, during the summer 1987 young people's training in Irving, which followed a trip to Taipei, the young people were coached by LSM trainers to taunt the older saints into being baptized, ridiculing them as "old and dead." Our LC had two graduating HS seniors (sisters) attending that training for the whole summer. Unfortunately they were so confused, they returned shipwrecked and left the faith. This happened to many other young ones returning to their LC's, and LSM blamed the problems on the LC's.

It seem that many current elders and leading brothers went to Taiwan as FTTT trainees. At that time, they would have been the "young" generation, probably most being in their late 20's or early 30's. I guess it shouldn't suprise me that they have all these strange ideas that they picked up in those days. I can't count the number of time I have heard them compare the church to an army as a way of justifying the need to "regulate" people.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It seem that many current elders and leading brothers went to Taiwan as FTTT trainees. At that time, they would have been the "young" generation, probably most being in their late 20's or early 30's. I guess it shouldn't suprise me that they have all these strange ideas that they picked up in those days. I can't count the number of time I have heard them compare the church to an army as a way of justifying the need to "regulate" people.

Beware of the leaven of the Blendeds!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

This is not unusual and it is not necessarily related to Christian groups. As people age if they don't stay relevant to the world around them they will become lost in their past. Unfortunately, from what you are saying these older Christians became lost as a result of unrealistic expectations for how they should be treated. In addition, they may have well helped many of these young people to come to the US and funded some of their housing etc. Their bitterness may be fully understandable.

Young people will easily develop the attitude that they know everything and this is not only true in the LC but in general. I am sure I was like that when I was young and in fact while I was in the LC I thought my parents were clueless. I learned otherwise later. Of course, in this instance it sounds like a problem with the attitude of the LC towards older Christians.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Dave

This is not unusual and it is not necessarily related to Christian groups. As people age if they don't stay relevant to the world around them they will become lost in their past. Unfortunately, from what you are saying these older Christians became lost as a result of unrealistic expectations for how they should be treated. In addition, they may have well helped many of these young people to come to the US and funded some of their housing etc. Their bitterness may be fully understandable.

Young people will easily develop the attitude that they know everything and this is not only true in the LC but in general. I am sure I was like that when I was young and in fact while I was in the LC I thought my parents were clueless. I learned otherwise later. Of course, in this instance it sounds like a problem with the attitude of the LC towards older Christians.

It feels almost like those running the show in the LC know that young people are going to develop a "know it all" attitude, and then they prey upon it. When I was a little younger, I know that I had this kind of attitude a little bit. If I had followed the path they push everyone down that leads to the FTTA, I might be a totally different person. Many times I have heard the brothers make statements such as "2 years in the training (FTTA) is the equivalent of 20 years in the church life". These statements are obviously nonsense, but what kind of ideas does this give young people? When I heard things like this, it sounded enticing to me. What young person doesn't want a "fast pass" in life to become someone special?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It feels almost like those running the show in the LC know that young people are going to develop a "know it all" attitude, and then they prey upon it. When I was a little younger, I know that I had this kind of attitude a little bit. If I had followed the path they push everyone down that leads to the FTTA, I might be a totally different person. Many times I have heard the brothers make statements such as "2 years in the training (FTTA) is the equivalent of 20 years in the church life". These statements are obviously nonsense, but what kind of ideas does this give young people? When I heard things like this, it sounded enticing to me. What young person doesn't want a "fast pass" in life to become someone special?

15 years ago i heard Titus Chu say that he had asked the Blended Trainers from the FTT's for statistics of all their graduates. What a shocker that must have been! Imagine LSM being forced to reveal how many of their trainees are no longer in the Recovery, how many are loving the world, how many have gone to Christianity, how many have mental health issues, etc.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

15 years ago i heard Titus Chu say that he had asked the Blended Trainers from the FTT's for statistics of all their graduates. What a shocker that must have been! Imagine LSM being forced to reveal how many of their trainees are no longer in the Recovery, how many are loving the world, how many have gone to Christianity, how many have mental health issues, etc.

Yes bro Ohio there has definitely been carnage in the wake of Witness Lee. And most of them we won't ever hear from.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Yes bro Ohio there has definitely been carnage in the wake of Witness Lee. And most of them we won't ever hear from.

I'm not just talking about your typical every day LC-carnage, but the secret results of their much tauted post-college degree Full Time Training in Anaheim -- FTTA.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

15 years ago i heard Titus Chu say that he had asked the Blended Trainers from the FTT's for statistics of all their graduates. What a shocker that must have been! Imagine LSM being forced to reveal how many of their trainees are no longer in the Recovery, how many are loving the world, how many have gone to Christianity, how many have mental health issues, etc.

Did Titus feel that the statistics for his training were better than that of the FTT?

As far as the FTTA is concerned, everyone is pressured to go, that is the underlying problem. When people who were pressured to attend the training finish, and have no desire to serve or do anything else, it is frusterating for everyone to see that. How does it make saints feel who gave their money generously so that person could go?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

Did Titus feel that the statistics for his training were better than that of the FTT?

As far as the FTTA is concerned, everyone is pressured to go, that is the underlying problem. When people who were pressured to attend the training finish, and have no desire to serve or do anything else, it is frusterating for everyone to see that. How does it make saints feel who gave their money generously so that person could go?

Obviously. More focused on scripture. Less focused on keeping tidy underwear in drawers. (There's a story i have told about that.) Titus convinced his followers that he alone remained true to the vision of "local" churches. There was some promotion, but less than at LSM.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Freedom

It feels almost like those running the show in the LC know that young people are going to develop a "know it all" attitude, and then they prey upon it. When I was a little younger, I know that I had this kind of attitude a little bit. If I had followed the path they push everyone down that leads to the FTTA, I might be a totally different person. Many times I have heard the brothers make statements such as "2 years in the training (FTTA) is the equivalent of 20 years in the church life". These statements are obviously nonsense, but what kind of ideas does this give young people? When I heard things like this, it sounded enticing to me. What young person doesn't want a "fast pass" in life to become someone special?

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC ! But most kids be it unsaved or saved have a 'know it all', rebellious attitude until they start working, paying bills and paying taxes, and get their hearts crushed.

That's when people who were raised to believe in God, begin to humble themselves...or become whiners and complainers if they are not seeking HIM for counsel, direction, Wisdom, Peace, Patience and Love.

God bless everyone here !
Carol

[awareness]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC ! But most kids be it unsaved or saved have a 'know it all', rebellious attitude until they start working, paying bills and paying taxes, and get their hearts crushed.

That's when people who were raised to believe in God, begin to humble themselves...or become whiners and complainers if they are not seeking HIM for counsel, direction, Wisdom, Peace, Patience and Love.

God bless everyone here !
Carol

Amen Carol .... Amen...

[Cal]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC !

Are you talking about Ohio?

[Truth]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

They would do well to listen carefully to the old wise mature geezards who have experienced 'life' in the LC ! But most kids be it unsaved or saved have a 'know it all', rebellious attitude until they start working, paying bills and paying taxes, and get their hearts crushed.

So true! Regretfully, that was me. Now that I have kids, how do I help them so that they don't have this kind of attitude? Or at least to a lesser extent? Any suggestions welcome!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This brings up the fallout from one of the most damaging movements that ever came forth from Witness Lee himself during the heyday of the so-called "New Way" back in the 80's -- that the Recovery was supposed to be the "army of God," and Lee himself was designated "Commander-in-Chief." Lee and his boys instituted military style regulations for the trainings. So much collateral ensued from this misguided thought.

This brings to mind "Gideon's 300".