"Early Nee" vs. "Later Nee"

[Dave]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Dave, this is in reference to the biannual Summer and Winter Trainings. They used to have them on Ball Rd, then moved to the new campus on La Palma Ave around 1999 (?).

Thanks rayliotta, Freedom, Terry etc for the info. Just out of curiosity were these trainings for a weekend, week, or? Also, back in the day when I went to Anaheim for a conference with Witness Lee the biggest expense was the flight costs since we often received accommodations from saints living in the area. How is all that working now? Are the saints housed together or with other saints or? You said the building could accommodate 5000 people. Is it filled when they have these trainings? If so, at $175 they would receive $875,000 each training. That moves a lot of walls. I have looked at LSM's income back in 2012 (its online since they are a non-profit company) and it says they had $72 million in assets and their income and expenses total about $13-14million each ($13-14 million coming in and $13-14 million going out) for that year so I am sure they have paid off Daystar. If they were smart they would find out who lost money on Daystar and pay them back with interest.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Dave

Just out of curiosity were these trainings for a weekend, week, or? Also, back in the day when I went to Anaheim for a conference with Witness Lee the biggest expense was the flight costs since we often received accommodations from saints living in the area. How is all that working now? Are the saints housed together or with other saints or? You said the building could accommodate 5000 people. Is it filled when they have these trainings?

I just checked on the price and it looks like it's still $150. The trainings are currently a week long (6 days) with 2 meetings, one in the afternoon and one in the evening. The meetings are about 2-2.5 hour long. Everyone attending the training is expected to attend a study session in the morning to review the previous day's messages and be prepared to get called up for "testing".

LSM recently became very strict regarding hospitality. Here is what they say: "Hospitality will only be provided for domestic trainees (USA and Canada) who are 25 years of age and under." Last time I attended a training, there was no such rule, and one of the better parts of the training was getting to know people from other places. LSM also requires that trainees be under 60 years of age to attend (I guess it's okay for the BB's to break that rule ). The trainings have always been at or near full capacity, but I don't have an exact number.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

LSM also requires that trainees be under 60 years of age to attend (I guess it's okay for the BB's to break that rule ). The trainings have always been at or near full capacity, but I don't have an exact number.

Is that just for the FTTA?

Darn, and I was thinking of going!

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Is that just for the FTTA?

Darn, and I was thinking of going!

No, this is for the semi-annual trainings. I presume that this requirement is not strictly enforced, otherwise I think many would take issue with it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

No, this is for the semi-annual trainings. I presume that this requirement is not strictly enforced, otherwise I think many would take issue with it.

LSM always seemed to have an aversion to the weak, the poor, and the beggarly things of the world, like the old and the young, widows and orphans, handicapped and challenged. Perhaps they should reread the gospel stories about those whom the Lord Jesus paid special attention to.

This brings up the fallout from one of the most damaging movements that ever came forth from Witness Lee himself during the heyday of the so-called "New Way" back in the 80's -- that the Recovery was supposed to be the "army of God," and Lee himself was designated "Commander-in-Chief." Lee and his boys instituted military style regulations for the trainings. So much collateral ensued from this misguided thought.

[Freedom]

Originally Posted by Ohio

LSM always seemed to have an aversion to the weak, the poor, and the beggarly things of the world, like the old and the young, widows and orphans, handicapped and challenged. Perhaps they should reread the gospel stories about those whom the Lord Jesus paid special attention to.

From what I've learned of local church history, there is a consistent trend of setting aside an older generation in place of a younger, inexperienced group. I see this even today. College students, FTTA trainees and graduates are pampered like there is no tomorrow. Older saints are neglected.

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

And some of them finally move on. We may think "why not sooner?" but later is better than never.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

In any family, a certain amount of this is normal. Life always tends to revolve around the children.

But what LSM did during the "New Way" was akin to Mao's Red Guard Youth movement during the cultural revolution from the mid-60's to the mid-70's. Many former LC members have confirmed this. Here was the movement's stated manifesto:

Chairman Mao has defined our future as an armed revolutionary youth organization...So if Chairman Mao is our Red-Commander-in-Chief and we are his Red soldiers, who can stop us? First we will make China red from inside out and then we will help the working people of other countries make the world red...And then the whole universe

The arrogance that the young people displayed to the older saints during the "new way" was often just despicable. Both the young and the old were damaged, many permanently. With the likes of the profligate Philip Lee at the helm I suppose it was understandable.

For example, during the summer 1987 young people's training in Irving, which followed a trip to Taipei, the young people were coached by LSM trainers to taunt the older saints into being baptized, ridiculing them as "old and dead." Our LC had two graduating HS seniors (sisters) attending that training for the whole summer. Unfortunately they were so confused, they returned shipwrecked and left the faith. This happened to many other young ones returning to their LC's, and LSM blamed the problems on the LC's.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Freedom

I have seen older saints who have been around for many years who are now bitter about how things turned out for them. Nobody notices or cares about them anymore. They were happy when the "church life" revolved around them, but now that there is a younger generation, everything is different.

This is not unusual and it is not necessarily related to Christian groups. As people age if they don't stay relevant to the world around them they will become lost in their past. Unfortunately, from what you are saying these older Christians became lost as a result of unrealistic expectations for how they should be treated. In addition, they may have well helped many of these young people to come to the US and funded some of their housing etc. Their bitterness may be fully understandable.

Young people will easily develop the attitude that they know everything and this is not only true in the LC but in general. I am sure I was like that when I was young and in fact while I was in the LC I thought my parents were clueless. I learned otherwise later. Of course, in this instance it sounds like a problem with the attitude of the LC towards older Christians.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This brings up the fallout from one of the most damaging movements that ever came forth from Witness Lee himself during the heyday of the so-called "New Way" back in the 80's -- that the Recovery was supposed to be the "army of God," and Lee himself was designated "Commander-in-Chief." Lee and his boys instituted military style regulations for the trainings. So much collateral ensued from this misguided thought.

This brings to mind "Gideon's 300".

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Dave

If they were smart they would find out who lost money on Daystar and pay them back with interest.

Not "if they were smart," but "if they were righteous." Righteousness is an ingredient that has been sorely missing from LSM for the last 40 years that I have been familiar with them.

It was a real eye opener to me when LSM purchased their LaPalma campus in Anaheim. The $30 million dollar price tag was to be split 3 ways. $10M cash from LSM's reserves, $10M from offerings from the SE Asia churches, and $10M from offerings from the US churches. A "quota" was passed down to each LC of $2K per "offering unit."

How did LSM ever obtain all that cash? What about that nonsense, "simple, humble servants, faithfully serving the Lord, often with volunteer help from the saints."