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Old 07-09-2014, 02:52 PM   #11
OBW
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Default Re: "Become" or "Not Become" Interpreting 1Cor 15:45

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Originally Posted by zeek View Post
Actually, OBW, my point of departure was the same as a deduction that you made in post #1 i.e. that, since God is spirit [John 4:24], all three hypostases of the Trinity are spirit. Spirit seems to be the substance of God. If that's the case, is it too much to suppose that the substance of the human spirit is also spirit? And, if you grant all that, then, whether we are talking about spirit in I Cor 2:10 or 15:45 we are talking about the same thing in a generic sense of the word regardless of whether we are speaking of the second or third person of the Trinity or the human spirit. It was the definition of that generic sense of the word that I was after.
I understand what you are saying. But I don't think it is that simple. I believe that 1 Cor 2:10 is talking about something that fits in with that "substance of God" aspect of spirit.

And it may be that there is something similar to be understood about man's spirit. (I do note that some time back — couple of years or more — there was some discussion surrounding Nee's efforts to so clearly identify the verses that separate soul and spirit. What we found was that once we no longer had Nee or Lee telling us that it was obvious that certain scriptures proved their points, the soul and the spirit look very connected, even overlapping. It began to look more like the two were nearly one. Or more correctly that the spirit of man is a feature of the soul not found in any other earthly beings.)

I'm not proposing this as a simplistic opposition to Nee's three parts of man. But I think that the aspect of man's spirit is an unknown.

And on top of that, the word spirit still has much use that is not simply the essence of either God or man's spirit. And I think that 1 Cor 15:45 is talking about a kind of spirit that is one of those other definitions.

Funny thing. My wife is reading a book and read part of a chapter to me last night. It was talking about adoption and sonship and made an excellent point about how these are two different thoughts designed to provide different aspects of our relationship with God. But in it, the guy made mention of the place where there was the phrase "spirit of sonship" or something like that. I am reminded how often (even outside the LRC) that we hear this mentioned as if it is saying "the Holy Spirit of sonship." Or "the Holy Spirit of adoption." Yet when you say it as bluntly as I just put it, it seems wrong. It is not talking about God's spirit (or Spirit) or ours, but rather, looking back at the 13+ definitions of spirit, more with the flavor of 5.a, or 6.b (spirit of helpfulness, spirit of fun). Not saying exactly like those examples, but the general idea. It is about an inner sense or direction of will that results in, or takes advantage of, or displays the fact of.

What I'm saying is that a "spirit of sonship" might more reasonably mean that I am fully engaged in the fact that I am a son. Or I am adopted (looking at the other possibility). I am not just factually a son, but I live as if it is true. I behave like a son of God. I think like a son of God. And if I am in this state, then "Abba, Father" would be a phrase to roll off my tongue rather than something that sounds strange or forced.

I know that some would like to suggest that this comes automatically from the Spirit within us. But if that was true, then a whole lot of Christians would act a whole lot more Christ-like. We would behave more like sons of God rather than arrogant SOBs who look down our noses at those filthy heathen (or even at those errant Christians who think differently about [fill in the blank doctrine or practice] than we do).
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