A Wake Up Call - God is Speaking to Us

[OBW]

I couldn't listen beyond about 6:30. Likening America to Israel in terms of national blessing, prosperity, etc. from God and setting an agenda to "get it back" is an effort in futility. It is not a "biblical" line of reasoning.

I originally had a lot more to say. Suffice it that I am more inclined to follow the thinking in a book entitled The Myth of the American Nation (or something like that) that I read several years ago.

Now I do not say to skip praying for the nation. Praying for the president, the leaders and members of the government. Keep it up. Mostly, pray for the peace of the nation, both within and without.

But expect pain and suffering. We were told not to expect better than our Master. The gospel is about the forgiveness of sins, not the legislation of a better life for Christians. It is changed lives due to something inside, not changes in laws to force behaviors.

It is not a popular position among many of my Christian friends and even relatives. Probably not here either.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by OBW

I couldn't listen beyond about 6:30. Likening America to Israel in terms of national blessing, prosperity, etc. from God and setting an agenda to "get it back" is an effort in futility. ...

That wasn't his point....you should hear him out.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Nell

That wasn't his point....you should hear him out.

That could e right. But he was building up to it through this point. It makes the tolerance for continued listening difficult. If the first part was not necessary to get to his "point" then I might try to skip forward to some relevant part later. Can someone give me a reasonable time marker to skip forward to? I'm willing to give it a chance.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by OBW

Can someone give me a reasonable time marker to skip forward to? I'm willing to give it a chance.

I second the motion. Or a synopsis to see if I want to listen to the whole thing.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

I second the motion. Or a synopsis to see if I want to listen to the whole thing.

Maybe you should change "alwayslearning" to "sometimeslearning". Good grief! Just listen to the whole thing.

[alwayslearning]

Originally Posted by Nell

Maybe you should change "alwayslearning" to "sometimeslearning". Good grief! Just listen to the whole thing.

What?! No CliffNotes?

[Nell]

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

What?! No CliffNotes?

No Cliff Notes.

Originally Posted by alwayslearning

I second the motion. Or a synopsis to see if I want to listen to the whole thing.

The message is based on his book "The Harbinger". The book refers to 9 harbingers he identifies of God's judgment. This is based on Isaiah 9:10 and 9/11.

1 – the hedge is removed. This is the first harbinger of God’s judgment. God puts a hedge of protection around a nation under his protection. Prior to 9/11 it seemed that the US did not suffer the terrorist attacks that Israel and the rest of the world did. 9/11 was the removal of the hedge of protection.
2 – The terrorist is the second harbinger. It referred to the Assyrians who were responsible for the attack referred to by Isaiah 9:10. The Assyrians lived in modern day Iraq, they were raised up to be terrorists: “its in his heart to destroy” according to Isaiah. Terrorists are the 2nd harbinger.
3 – The oracle is the 3rd harbinger, it refers to Isaiah 9:10. This was Israel’s response to God’s judgment. Instead of repentance they responded defiantly. Interestingly, Tom Daschle quoted this same verse as the nation’s response the same week as 9/11.
4 – The tower. According to the Septuagint Isaiah 9:10 says they would rebuild a tower in defiance. At ground zero there is a plaque saying that “Freedom Tower” would be built as an act of defiance.
5 – The foundation stone of hewn stone. This was referred to in Isaiah 9:10. In Isaiah the nation of Israel responds with defiance saying they will rebuild rather than repent at God’s rebuke. Likewise, this hewn stone was laid at ground zero with a big ceremony in which they declared they would respond with defiance, no repentance.
6—Sycamore tree that was planted outside of St. Paul’s chapel it was destroyed on 9/11 but famously protected this chapel which was critical during the ordeal as a place for first responders and for those seeking missing people. This chapel was also the place where Washington came after the inauguration to have the New nation consecrated. Buildings falling down signify the falling of the kingdom. Sycamores being uprooted signify the uprooting of the kingdom. It was certainly a very significant location to signify the “uprooting” of the kingdom. This uprooted tree became a symbol of 9/11 with a plaque calling it “the Sycamore of Ground Zero).
7 – The Erez tree. Isaiah 9:10 says they will change the fallen sycamores into cedars, however the word is actually Erez which refers to conifer pine trees of which Cedars are one. The “sycamore of ground zero” was removed and turned into a monument and it was replaced with a conifer pine tree in 2003. Both the placing of the foundation stone at ground zero and the planting of this tree were both done as big public ceremonies and acts of defiance, just as Israel had done. They said “The tree of hope is planted in the same spot where a sixty year old sycamore stood the morning of September 11, 2001.”
8 – The utterance on the anniversary of 9/11 an American leader in Washington D.C. used Isaiah 9:10 as the basis of his speech: we are rebuilding, we’re replacing the sycamore tree, etc.
9 – The prophecy – The Senate majority leader as an official response to 9/11 a few days after the attack also used Isaiah 9:10 as a vow or prophecy of how the US would respond.

[UntoHim]

Hey, "Escapedfromthecurse" it is against the forum rules and even general "netiquette" to post under multiple monikers. You've been warned about this before. Sail straight my friend or you're going to find yourself landlocked.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Hey, "Escapedfromthecurse" it is against the forum rules and even general "netiquette" to post under multiple monikers. You've been warned about this before. Sail straight my friend or you're going to find yourself landlocked.

Sorry about that. Steve asked me to post on his thread, I had turned him down but decided to read it again. That was when I decided to post on this thread. I only decided to post again as ZNP when it seemed Steve really needed some support. At that point I had already posted as EFTC so it seemed easier to just finish that discussion as is. Sorry if that is improper. However, I do not recall ever being warned about this before unless you have me confused with someone else. Thanks.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by OBW

That could e right. But he was building up to it through this point. It makes the tolerance for continued listening difficult. If the first part was not necessary to get to his "point" then I might try to skip forward to some relevant part later. Can someone give me a reasonable time marker to skip forward to? I'm willing to give it a chance.

You could have been finished by now.

[Paul Cox]

If you get caught up on the particulars of whether or not America is a modern day Israel, you miss a very important point. Those things aside, we can't deny that the Lord causes certain kings to rise and others to fall. This in an indisputable fact. If a nation, such as England or the United States of America, has been so widely used to spread the gospel, because they opened their hearts to God in their founding principles, then certainly the Lord will deal with them in a disciplinary way when they wander from those principles.
A brother shared something with me the other night that was very enlightening. He said that we Christians need to move away from activism, and towards prayers. It was always through repentance and prayer that the Lord was able to turn the heart of a nation.
Christians have never been more politically active than they are right now, and yet it seems that one election cycle after another, and one Supreme Court session after another evil continues to prevail.
When listening to the Lord we need to be saved from being so intellectual and intelligent. That is one thing that I appreciate about being delivered from the Local Church. They shout "spirit, spirit," but in fact, their religion is ALL in the head. Sometimes when you are talking to them, and share some real light, they seem stunned that it wasn't in the body of Witness Lee head knowledge that was drilled into them. They don't know what to do with it.

[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Paul Cox

...It was always through repentance and prayer that the Lord was able to turn the heart of a nation.

Yes and yes. This is what the Lord has really put on my heart the last few years. Political and social change follows change in the hearts of men. I heard two men interviewed last year (names escape me at the moment, but one was an evangelical and the other a Catholic priest) who were collaborating to write a book that shows how government and society always tend downward until there is a spiritual revival. Their book documents that in history everytime government and society have improved it has been because a spiritual revival occurred first. Spiritual revival comes when people genuinely repent from sin and turn back to God. This is what I have been praying for mostly--that the Spirit will come like the latter rain to "convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment" and that men will repent and turn back to God. I've also been praying the Lord's prayer that His kingdom come, that it be on earth as it IS in heaven.

The end result for me of the message by Jonathan Cahn (and I heard him interviewed expressing his hope of this for hearers) was that I was freshly awakened to the need, even the absolute necessity, that God's people begin to pray day and night for such repentance.

Please, to any who have not taken time to listen to his message, do so as soon as you can. You will be surprised at what he shares. It is not a general "judgment is coming" type message. Cahn makes it plain that God is speaking through undeniable biblical signs (a few of which he points out in his message and they are stunning) in these last days... things that show how very real and involved God is in modern day times.

I am about half way through his book, The Harbinger, and would say it is a must read. Will people listen? I am afraid that most people will be much like God's people of old who shut their ears to the voices of the prophets that God sent to warn them and turn them so He could restore them.

I agree with Ohio that this is the closest I have ever come to hearing a prophet. I do not believe he had any agenda but to deliver a message that would shake us to the core and cause us to begin to bow our knees as if everything depended on it, for indeed I think it does.

Thankful Jane

[alwayslearning]

I was able to listen to his entire talk this morning. I don't think his passion can be disputed however I disagree with his underlying premise i.e. America was once a blessed nation because it was founded on eternal and heavenly principles and consecrated to God/Jesus and is losing (or has lost) that blessing under God's judgment for our sinful ways. And that the Twin Tower attack and more recent economic turn down are signs of this judgment. I think this is a very selective view of American history.

In actuality the nation was founded upon 3 strands of tradition: Judeo-Christian, Greco-Roman and European Enlightenment. Many of the founders were Deists not Christians. They belonged to Masonic Lodges. Several had mistresses. Most owned slaves. But they were also quite smart and learned. Drawing on these traditions and adding in their own insights they were able to put together the documents and framework and begin building the institutions of a new nation. This was messy work at best as one finds out when they dig into the archives to see how the sausage was made - so to speak.

Whenever I hear that America has sinned and is under God's judgment and needs to turn back to Him (not an unusual theme) I always wonder 2 things:

1. At what time were we as a nation turned to God in the first place? What is the benchmark?

2. What would this look like in practical application today? How would American society actually function and operate once it "turned back to God"?

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Nell

You could have been finished by now.

I've been out of town with poor internet reception and working long hours. Your presumption about my time is insulting.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by OBW

I've been out of town with poor internet reception and working long hours. Your presumption about my time is insulting.

Sorry. Not my intention.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Nell

That wasn't his point....you should hear him out.

Thanks Nell.

There's not many times in life when one can hear someone speak for God with such passion and conviction. Could he sound much different than Isaiah, Jeremiah, or the other prophets of old?

Time to take a look at his book ...

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Thanks Nell.

There's not many times in life one when can hear someone speak for God with such passion and conviction. Could he sound much different than Isaiah, Jeremiah, or the other prophets of old?

Time to take a look at his book ...

Hi Ohio (:-)
Nope. I don't see how. He sounds like a prophet to me. Based on his message and the message in his book, his demeanor, like you say, passion and conviction. If he's not a prophet, I don't know what/who is.

I downloaded his book and am on Ch4. I can't put it down. It's really connecting the dots for me.