God's economy vs Deputy authority

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Don't beat yourself up about it. You were probably still getting something out of it. I'm sure some good came out of it.
Regrets are a waste of time. Look ahead with a positive attitude.

Oh I was getting something out of it, that's for sure. You really have no idea.

And beating yourself up's not so bad, so long as you feel numb afterwards...

[UntoHim]

Old guy who doesn’t have time to worry about sarcasim:

Originally Posted by Igzy

Don't beat yourself up about it. You were probably still getting something out of it. I'm sure some good came out of it.
Regrets are a waste of time. Look ahead with a positive attitude.

Younger guy who knows this but has enough time to worry about sarcasim:

Originally Posted by rayliotta

Oh I was getting something out of it, that's for sure. You really have no idea.
And beating yourself up's not so bad, so long as you feel numb afterwards...

Yikes…maybe aliens, pyaramids and soot are on topic afterall.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by UntoHim

Yikes…maybe aliens, pyramids and soot are on topic after all.

Takes a while ... perhaps a long while ... but you're finally coming around.

[Indiana]

Book of Evil-Speaking #5
Elders Training Book 10

To assert that this is now the fifth book of evil-speaking from the press at LSM is not an exaggeration. They produce the books; I report them. Young people especially need to learn how not to speak and thus stay away from lies and mere party-line agenda.

The content of Elders’ Training, Book 10, like the four books of evil-speaking before it, deals falsely with the late 80s turmoil in messages given in 1989-1991.

THE PRESENT TURMOIL IN THE LORD’S RECOVERY

Brother Lee says, “The present turmoil among us can be considered a rebellion, a rebellion with a conspiracy. I have been quiet for more than two years. You have probably never heard me speak concerning this matter. On occasion I have expressed something related to this matter in the elders’ meetings, but not in a very clear way. Since the ones who initiated this rebellion have made it so obvious, even through the printed page, I feel that after a long period of silence I should let you know some of the facts. But in this message, I will only say a little bit in principle. For the details in full, see the book entitled The Fermentation of the Present Rebellion. It is published by Living Stream Ministry and is free of charge.”

INSTIGATED BY THE EVIL ONE

“Having thoroughly considered during the past two years the things that have happened in the rebellion, I came to the conclusion that this rebellion is the work of the devil, the evil one. (Matt. 13:19), because nearly everything brought out by the rebellious ones was not logical or reasonable, and some of the ways in which they did things were inhuman.”

CARRIED OUT BY THE PERVERTED ONES

“A rebellion such as the one we are encountering now in the Lord’s recovery is not only instigated by the evil spiritual source but also carried out through human instruments. In Paul’s charge to the elders from Ephesus in Acts 20:30, he warned them that from among themselves that men would rise up to speak perverted things to draw away the disciples to be their followers. In the past nineteen centuries Paul’s word has been fulfilled repeatedly. I would say that the present rebellion among us is another fulfillment of Paul’s warning. Many words that have come out of those who are participating in this rebellion should be considered as 'perverted things'".

In Anaheim the false reporting for many years by LC leadership is not only from “the evil spiritual source but also is carried out through human instruments”. For a complete rebuttal of such evil speaking by so-called deputy authorities see
http://www.MakingStraighttheWayofthe...dsRecovery.pdf

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Brother Lee says, “The present turmoil among us can be considered a rebellion, a rebellion with a conspiracy.”

WL is referring to the fallout that resulted from PL being force fed upon the churches by RG and BP. To put an unrepentant sexual predator who could accurately be described as a wolf in a position of authority over the elders of other churches is clearly contrary to the truth. There is no basis for elders in autonomous churches to submit to someone in the LSM office, much less a wolf. You could say that doing so was a rebellion against the NT. Since this was carried out by a group of people, most notably RG and BP but also EM and FB, KR, and RK, etc. Then by definition it can also be called a conspiracy.

So I agree with WL, the turmoil was a rebellion with a conspiracy. The goal was to increase the reach and authority of LSM.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There is no basis for elders in autonomous churches to submit to someone in the LSM office, much less a wolf. You could say that doing so was a rebellion against the NT. Since this was carried out by a group of people, most notably RG and BP but also EM and FB, KR, and RK, etc. Then by definition it can also be called a conspiracy.

So I agree with WL, the turmoil was a rebellion with a conspiracy. The goal was to increase the reach and authority of LSM.

As I understand ZNPaaneah's post,
1. Those elders and co-workers who executed directives of LSM's office manager were the ones in rebellion and in conspiracy to bring localities under LSM headship.
2. Those elders and co-workers who reacted against directives of LSM's office manager were officially or unofficially quarantined, or simply withdrew from the local churches affiliated with LSM.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

As I understand ZNPaaneah's post,
1. Those elders and co-workers who executed directives of LSM's office manager were the ones in rebellion and in conspiracy to bring localities under LSM headship.
2. Those elders and co-workers who reacted against directives of LSM's office manager were officially or unofficially quarantined, or simply withdrew from the local churches affiliated with LSM.

My point was that "with what judgement you judge you shall be judged". It seemed very clear to me that the words spoken by WL were much more appropriate as a judgement on himself and his son.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

WL is referring to the fallout that resulted from PL being force fed upon the churches by RG and BP. To put an unrepentant sexual predator who could accurately be described as a wolf in a position of authority over the elders of other churches is clearly contrary to the truth. There is no basis for elders in autonomous churches to submit to someone in the LSM office, much less a wolf. You could say that doing so was a rebellion against the NT. Since this was carried out by a group of people, most notably RG and BP but also EM and FB, KR, and RK, etc. Then by definition it can also be called a conspiracy.

So I agree with WL, the turmoil was a rebellion with a conspiracy. The goal was to increase the reach and authority of LSM.

I specifically remember WL speaking publically that, "you cannot say that you are one with my ministry, and not be one with my office."

None of us realized that this "office" had a name.

After hearing WL teach on so many subjects, pointing out the errors of everyone else besides himself, I can still remember how dumbfounded I was upon learning that his own son Phillip (choking out the word nepotism) was LSM's manager. a.k.a. "my office."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I specifically remember WL speaking publically that, "you cannot say that you are one with my ministry, and not be one with my office."

None of us realized that this "office" had a name.

After hearing WL teach on so many subjects, pointing out the errors of everyone else besides himself, I can still remember how dumbfounded I was upon learning that his own son Phillip (choking out the word nepotism) was LSM's manager. a.k.a. "my office."

And that is where the teaching becomes very ugly. You begin with verses in the NT about the oneness of the Body, and "one lord, one spirit, one God, etc." You then go to Phil where it talks about murmuring and complaining and how to restore saints to harmonious situation. All good and scriptural teachings.

From there we mention cases of those who labored with Paul and then draw the analogy that for us today that means laboring with WL. Still not a "bad" teaching, perhaps a little self serving, but OK.

From there we get RG going off the deep end with his "wink wink" teaching about who the minister of the age is. You get some seriously bad teachings about how "it doesn't matter if he is wrong, as long as you follow him it is right" type of garbage. As bad as all these are, at least they aren't codified, only rumored.

From there you get the teachings of WL being the "MOTA", perhaps the most serious error in all of the LSM publications.

And then you have the extortion that you must be "one with his office" (i.e. PL in order to claim to be "one with the ministry"). The implied threat being that to not be able to "claim" to be "one with the ministry" (I assume this is referring to the document RG and BP made all the elders sign) is to be ostracized from the club. There you have it, the LSM sect full of extortion.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Indiana

INSTIGATED BY THE EVIL ONE

“Having thoroughly considered during the past two years the things that have happened in the rebellion, I came to the conclusion that this rebellion is the work of the devil, the evil one. (Matt. 13:19), because nearly everything brought out by the rebellious ones was not logical or reasonable, and some of the ways in which they did things were inhuman.”

Once again I absolutely agree with WL. Clearly putting PL, a wolf, in charge of elders and churches is the work of the devil. It isn't logical or reasonable. No doubt some of the things PL did could be considered inhuman. I had no idea WL felt this way.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Indiana

CARRIED OUT BY THE PERVERTED ONES

“A rebellion such as the one we are encountering now in the Lord’s recovery is not only instigated by the evil spiritual source but also carried out through human instruments. In Paul’s charge to the elders from Ephesus in Acts 20:30, he warned them that from among themselves that men would rise up to speak perverted things to draw away the disciples to be their followers. In the past nineteen centuries Paul’s word has been fulfilled repeatedly. I would say that the present rebellion among us is another fulfillment of Paul’s warning. Many words that have come out of those who are participating in this rebellion should be considered as 'perverted things'".

Yes. Yes. Yes. Preach it WL! This could never have taken place without the help of human instruments like RG, BP, etc. If these brothers had stood with the decision of the elders in Anaheim to excommunicate a sexual predator none of this would have happened. Also KR and RK were instrumental in the whitewash coverup job. And EM and FB were crucial in implementing the new "Ministry Church" model of rubber stamp elders without a backbone.

Yes, men would rise up to speak perverted things to draw away disciples to be their "Ministry churches". Wow! This word is hot. Bazinga, he just nailed PL. Many words that have come out of those who are participating in this rebellion should be considered as 'perverted things'. Absolutely! The teaching of MOTA for one! Making the idea that our oneness includes the attempt to be one with the Ministry of WL is another! WL is on fire!