God's economy vs Deputy authority

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Brother Lee says, “The present turmoil among us can be considered a rebellion, a rebellion with a conspiracy.”

WL is referring to the fallout that resulted from PL being force fed upon the churches by RG and BP. To put an unrepentant sexual predator who could accurately be described as a wolf in a position of authority over the elders of other churches is clearly contrary to the truth. There is no basis for elders in autonomous churches to submit to someone in the LSM office, much less a wolf. You could say that doing so was a rebellion against the NT. Since this was carried out by a group of people, most notably RG and BP but also EM and FB, KR, and RK, etc. Then by definition it can also be called a conspiracy.

So I agree with WL, the turmoil was a rebellion with a conspiracy. The goal was to increase the reach and authority of LSM.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

There is no basis for elders in autonomous churches to submit to someone in the LSM office, much less a wolf. You could say that doing so was a rebellion against the NT. Since this was carried out by a group of people, most notably RG and BP but also EM and FB, KR, and RK, etc. Then by definition it can also be called a conspiracy.

So I agree with WL, the turmoil was a rebellion with a conspiracy. The goal was to increase the reach and authority of LSM.

As I understand ZNPaaneah's post,
1. Those elders and co-workers who executed directives of LSM's office manager were the ones in rebellion and in conspiracy to bring localities under LSM headship.
2. Those elders and co-workers who reacted against directives of LSM's office manager were officially or unofficially quarantined, or simply withdrew from the local churches affiliated with LSM.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Terry

As I understand ZNPaaneah's post,
1. Those elders and co-workers who executed directives of LSM's office manager were the ones in rebellion and in conspiracy to bring localities under LSM headship.
2. Those elders and co-workers who reacted against directives of LSM's office manager were officially or unofficially quarantined, or simply withdrew from the local churches affiliated with LSM.

My point was that "with what judgement you judge you shall be judged". It seemed very clear to me that the words spoken by WL were much more appropriate as a judgement on himself and his son.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

WL is referring to the fallout that resulted from PL being force fed upon the churches by RG and BP. To put an unrepentant sexual predator who could accurately be described as a wolf in a position of authority over the elders of other churches is clearly contrary to the truth. There is no basis for elders in autonomous churches to submit to someone in the LSM office, much less a wolf. You could say that doing so was a rebellion against the NT. Since this was carried out by a group of people, most notably RG and BP but also EM and FB, KR, and RK, etc. Then by definition it can also be called a conspiracy.

So I agree with WL, the turmoil was a rebellion with a conspiracy. The goal was to increase the reach and authority of LSM.

I specifically remember WL speaking publically that, "you cannot say that you are one with my ministry, and not be one with my office."

None of us realized that this "office" had a name.

After hearing WL teach on so many subjects, pointing out the errors of everyone else besides himself, I can still remember how dumbfounded I was upon learning that his own son Phillip (choking out the word nepotism) was LSM's manager. a.k.a. "my office."

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I specifically remember WL speaking publically that, "you cannot say that you are one with my ministry, and not be one with my office."

None of us realized that this "office" had a name.

After hearing WL teach on so many subjects, pointing out the errors of everyone else besides himself, I can still remember how dumbfounded I was upon learning that his own son Phillip (choking out the word nepotism) was LSM's manager. a.k.a. "my office."

And that is where the teaching becomes very ugly. You begin with verses in the NT about the oneness of the Body, and "one lord, one spirit, one God, etc." You then go to Phil where it talks about murmuring and complaining and how to restore saints to harmonious situation. All good and scriptural teachings.

From there we mention cases of those who labored with Paul and then draw the analogy that for us today that means laboring with WL. Still not a "bad" teaching, perhaps a little self serving, but OK.

From there we get RG going off the deep end with his "wink wink" teaching about who the minister of the age is. You get some seriously bad teachings about how "it doesn't matter if he is wrong, as long as you follow him it is right" type of garbage. As bad as all these are, at least they aren't codified, only rumored.

From there you get the teachings of WL being the "MOTA", perhaps the most serious error in all of the LSM publications.

And then you have the extortion that you must be "one with his office" (i.e. PL in order to claim to be "one with the ministry"). The implied threat being that to not be able to "claim" to be "one with the ministry" (I assume this is referring to the document RG and BP made all the elders sign) is to be ostracized from the club. There you have it, the LSM sect full of extortion.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

And then you have the extortion that you must be "one with his office" (i.e. PL in order to claim to be "one with the ministry"). The implied threat being that to not be able to "claim" to be "one with the ministry" (I assume this is referring to the document RG and BP made all the elders sign) is to be ostracized from the club. There you have it, the LSM sect full of extortion.

And when complaints start to surface from around the globe, as the backlash to Philip Lee's abusive bully tactics from inside the office of LSM, WL comes to the podium and quiets the faithful with these challenging words, "don't I have the right to hire an unbeliever as my personal cook?"

Ask John So and the brothers in Germany if they were just protesting the spoiled dinner they had last night.

Since when does a "personal cook" run a multi-million dollar publishing company intent on controlling all the LC's in the Recovery?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And when complaints start to surface from around the globe, as the backlash to Philip Lee's abusive bully tactics from inside the office of LSM, WL comes to the podium and quiets the faithful with these challenging words, "don't I have the right to hire an unbeliever as my personal cook?"

Ask John So and the brothers in Germany if they were just protesting the spoiled dinner they had last night.

Since when does a "personal cook" run a multi-million dollar publishing company intent on controlling all the LC's in the Recovery?

Forcing churches to have "standing orders" for books no one wanted was a result of extortion. Elders chose the books as the lesser of two evils. RG and BP pushing PL when his sins were well documented could in the most optimistically spun euphemism be characterized as "illogical". I think WL was more precise when he said it had an evil spiritual source, involved a conspiracy and constituted rebellion.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Forcing churches to have "standing orders" for books no one wanted was a result of extortion. Elders chose the books as the lesser of two evils. RG and BP pushing PL when his sins were well documented could in the most optimistically spun euphemism be characterized as "illogical". I think WL was more precise when he said it had an evil spiritual source, involved a conspiracy and constituted rebellion.

What kind of spiritual leaders, facing evidences of immorality and corruption exposed to the light of day, sacrifice numerous long-standing personal relationships, and subsequently attempt to destroy the integrity and character of these very brothers with bogus accusations in order to maintain their own pristine image to the rank and file?!? They then hold public meetings, kangaroo courts, heaping condemnations upon these brothers, in absentia, by parading their own lackeys to the podium as "credible witnesses."

Against every available fact of truth at their disposal, WL and his most loyal cadre of lieutenants really believed that they were under some kind of coup d'etat, a global conspiracy to destroy God's Recovery of the one true ministry to build the one true church, by other co-workers who had suddenly decided to overthrow his leadership, and become the new leaders. Or did they? Did they really believe this?!?

By completely rejecting all the obvious facts of numerous and credible eye-witnesses to the contrary, they were able to maintain their own delusional inner belief system that they, and they alone, were the unique testimony of the church, the one unique move of God on earth, the sole guardians of all the recovered truths of this age. As brother Francis Ball gleefully proclaimed, "I'd rather be an ostrich with its head in the sand."

So it's no wonder that they have maintained constant and continual efforts to "inoculate" their members from this truth. No wonder they considered this the most dangerous of "poisons." As soon as some member discovers what really happened during the quarantines of John Ingalls and so many others godly co-workers, that member changes overnight, one day an ardent zealot for the ministry, the next day gone completely "negative."

[ZNPaaneah]

Don't think that they "maintain constant and continual efforts to inoculate their members from this truth" to protect the reputation of WL. He is dead. They are protecting their own reputation. That is proof positive they know what they have done.

I went to school with KR, there is no way he didn't know that what he was writing was a whitewash. I know him well enough to know the issue is not sloppy scholarship, on the contrary, his issue is the willingness to do a hatchet job that he knew was a hatchet job.

I served under RG for years. He was meticulous about maintaining the testimony concerning brothers and sisters. Everything that was run in both Houston and Irving he was very careful to make sure there was no appearance of evil and he preached on this. He knew what PL's sins were, he knew the danger to the ministry, and had it been anyone else he would have been at the forefront of any discipline being handed out. What RG and BP did was clearly to use this as an opportunity to seize control of the LSM. The hypocrisy of this action is so bizarre as to only be described as a knife in the back of JI, etal.

Why would brothers (RG and BP) who had always been so careful for the testimony all of a sudden push a lecher like PL as someone for the elders to submit to? This goes beyond RG's obsession with all things WL. The simplest answer is that with them in charge of the LSM this would broaden their power base. They used extortion to sell books, and they let PL be the "bad man".

To my impression the whole "using footnotes for testimonies" started with EM. In the very small fishbowl that I grew up in (Houston and Irving) he was the one that excelled the most at it. I believe this is how he got RG's attention, this is why he was made an elder of Anaheim, and this was a critical part of RG's strategy to make LSM vital. I think you can sum up RG's entire strategy in his pet phrase for the RcV of the NT, he called them "gold bars". Create an LRC in which every member has to have this version, the only way to do that is to emphasize the footnotes until they are an essential part of the meetings, then sell tens of thousands of these gold bars at $45 to $90 each. Make them with and without footnotes, NT and whole Bible.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

What kind of spiritual leaders, facing evidences of immorality and corruption exposed to the light of day, sacrifice numerous long-standing personal relationships, and subsequently attempt to destroy the integrity and character of these very brothers with bogus accusations in order to maintain their own pristine image to the rank and file?!?

This kind:

23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?