“Can the Local Church Leadership Say, ‘We Were Wrong’?” (An Open Letter)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

"We brothers listened to many testimonies and admissions before making any judgment."

Whose testimonies? Whose admissions? A few? Was "Judy's" testimony taken into account? Was it just the testimony of one or two? Was there a spirit of partiality exhibited towards Jane?

It sounded to me, after reading that section in the book again, that BP held numerous interrogation sessions with many others such as the Mays' and the Andrews' before he conducted this second session with the Anderson's.

In BP's mind, he had "heard enough."

And this is perhaps the most pathetic and destructive characteristic of the whole "deputy authority" thingy. Here is BP, the supposed "deputy" of the greater Texas region, beating all others into submission, and then declaring that this is how "we brothers" feel. WL was a master at this.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

In BP's mind, he had "heard enough."

What exactly was the great sin Jane had comitted? I could lay it out if John and Jane don't object to me using excerpts from Jane's book.

Jane was not absolute. So, it was not a matter of speaking heresy or comitting some grievous sin known to the assembly.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Terry

What exactly was the great sin Jane had comitted? I could lay it out if John and Jane don't object to me using excerpts from Jane's book.

Jane was not absolute. So, it was not a matter of speaking heresy or comitting some grievous sin known to the assembly.

She was "rebellious."

Sort of like being labeled a witch in Salem, Massachusetts in the 17th century. A good, catch-all way to get rid of troublesome people.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Terry

What exactly was the great sin Jane had comitted? I could lay it out if John and Jane don't object to me using excerpts from Jane's book.

Jane was not absolute. So, it was not a matter of speaking heresy or comitting some grievous sin known to the assembly.

Ahhh ... brother Terry ... in the minds of BP and WL all sin is forgivable. Even adultery requires only "relocation" to absolve one's conscience, as a few cases have proven. But ... to place a question mark upon the leadership of BP in Texas, even if one is only seeking the Lord and wondering if BP's leadership matches the ministry ... is the one unforgiveable sin.

I just read thru that section of Thread of Gold again, and BP's actions all seemed to make sense, in some twisted LSM sort of way.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Ahhh ... brother Terry ... in the minds of BP and WL all sin is forgivable. Even adultery requires only "relocation" to absolve one's conscience, as a few cases have proven. But ... to place a question mark upon the leadership of BP in Texas, even if one is only seeking the Lord and wondering if BP's leadership matches the ministry ... is the one unforgiveable sin.

I just read thru that section of Thread of Gold again, and BP's actions all seemed to make sense, in some twisted LSM sort of way.

Ohio, the distinction is where your seeking is placed. Are you seeking Jesus Christ or are you seeking the ministry? It's an either/or question.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It sounded to me, after reading that section in the book again, that BP held numerous interrogation sessions with many others such as the Mays' and the Andrews' before he conducted this second session with the Anderson's.

In BP's mind, he had "heard enough."

And this is perhaps the most pathetic and destructive characteristic of the whole "deputy authority" thingy. Here is BP, the supposed "deputy" of the greater Texas region, beating all others into submission, and then declaring that this is how "we brothers" feel. WL was a master at this.

This is why Paul said to "avoid the appearance of sin". For an elder or church leader in this situation, the question is not whether you have heard enough, the question is whether the case is clear enough for the church. Ultimately you have to "tell it to the church" and if they don't buy it then you have a problem. Why is it that 30 years later we are still discussing this? The issue is not whether BP had heard enough, but that we have not heard enough to justify this action. 2nd, to BP at the time it may have seemed like he had "heard enough" but had he gone the extra mile he might have avoided 30 years of the story never going away, he might even have discovered that WL testimony was not credible, he might even have avoided being the head cheerleader for the BBs.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

This is why Paul said to "avoid the appearance of sin". For an elder or church leader in this situation, the question is not whether you have heard enough, the question is whether the case is clear enough for the church. Ultimately you have to "tell it to the church" and if they don't buy it then you have a problem. Why is it that 30 years later we are still discussing this? The issue is not whether BP had heard enough, but that we have not heard enough to justify this action. 2nd, to BP at the time it may have seemed like he had "heard enough" but had he gone the extra mile he might have avoided 30 years of the story never going away, he might even have discovered that WL testimony was not credible, he might even have avoided being the head cheerleader for the BBs.

He might have.

But don't hold your breath. He's now had 33 years and he can't extract himself. If he had any real integrity, he would have backed down years ago when challenged by Jane and John. But he stands firm in his sin despite the evidence now reaching to the heavens of an unjust servant going around beating up other of the Lord's servants.

I've not seen anything scriptural set up against the actual events that suggests he even had an inkling of something actionable back in 1977. Surely nothing to have caused such unscriptural actions. He stands alone (or with those Houston elders who stood with him) now exposed for the falsehoods that were used to exert a kind of control. (Remember that the same weekend there were a couple of larger "blow-up" conferences going on that Lee would use to begin to exert his own control. Here BP was doing the same kind of creation of a strawman to beat up and exert control.)

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by OBW

He's now had 33 years and he can't extract himself. If he had any real integrity, he would have backed down years ago when challenged by Jane and John. But he stands firm in his sin despite the evidence now reaching to the heavens of an unjust servant going around beating up other of the Lord's servants.

I've not seen anything scriptural set up against the actual events that suggests he even had an inkling of something actionable back in 1977. Surely nothing to have caused such unscriptural actions. He stands alone (or with those Houston elders who stood with him) now exposed for the falsehoods that were used to exert a kind of control.

Reading ToG again recently, it seemed that BP went thru a kind of anguish of heart concerning Jane Anderson. He would inquire of her while visiting OKC. (I would post some quotes here, but the PDF does not allow that.) Then BP himself eventually visited the Anderson's. (see pg 221) There BP was not faithful to his heart, however, and instead began to "sermonize" about unrelated principles of the Christian life. Instead of listening to her example, BP built up his armored defenses again by some WL nonsense about "some deceptions take ten years to be delivered from."

My impression was that BP inquired of Jane A, and eventually visited her and her husband, not out of heart-felt brotherly concern, but out of conviction of conscience. That conviction only seemed to operate while he was at a distance from them. Once he was in their presence, the mental strongholds gripped him once again. It did not seem to me that in their presence he was even capable of speaking from his heart, rather he reverted back to WL doublespeak about the deception of the enemy.

My conclusion was that BP had missed his only opportunity to apologize and be reconciled. He was as close as he would ever get, and then ran off frightened and stiff-necked back into the WL-land of authoritarianism. Hence, BP was ever under the burden of turmoil within. The attempts by the Anderson's and other saints in the early 90's to rescue a failing marriage only exacerbated his inner torment. The old spiritual battleground between heart and mind. Without some definite decision to soften his heart in obedience, his only recourse was to bury his head in denial and a "busy schedule."

Finally, some two decades later, upon discovering that Jane A. had actually written a book about these events, thus committing the "mortal sin" of leaving the Recovery and talking about it. All those mental WL-alarms went off in BP's head. Thus the turmoil within him was over. He had not made a "mistake" back in that Memorial day weekend of 1977 that possibly needed to be repented of. No, never! He was not too hard on her. "She deserved it! Look what she did! She was wrong all along! I just knew it!"

"Wait till I get to the training and tell everybody." What a happy day! Finally ... I am clear!

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Reading ToG again recently, it seemed that BP went thru a kind of anguish of heart concerning Jane Anderson.

My conclusion was that BP had missed his only opportunity to apologize and be reconciled.The attempts by the Anderson's and other saints in the early 90's to rescue a failing marriage only exacerbated his inner torment.

Finally, some two decades later, upon discovering that Jane A. had actually written a book about these events, thus committing the "mortal sin" of leaving the Recovery and talking about it. All those mental WL-alarms went off in BP's head.

Question I have, had Benson reconciled with John and Jane, would there had been A Thread of Gold? If you take the approach there was an anguish of heart, how easy it could had been to properly take care of this relationship in Oklahoma City. How easy it could had been to respond to the Andersons request to meet.
There is still time to apologize and be reconciled. There isn't much time left. Pride tends to be fortified with time. I see pride being a obstacle.

"some deceptions take ten years to be delivered from."
Indeed.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

My conclusion was that BP had missed his only opportunity to apologize and be reconciled. He was as close as he would ever get, and then ran off frightened and stiff-necked back into the WL-land of authoritarianism. Hence, BP was ever under the burden of turmoil within. The attempts by the Anderson's and other saints in the early 90's to rescue a failing marriage only exacerbated his inner torment. The old spiritual battleground between heart and mind. Without some definite decision to soften his heart in obedience, his only recourse was to bury his head in denial and a "busy schedule."
[/I]

I strongly believe that other people are very similar to myself (kind of an offshoot of the principle to treat others as you would have them treat me). If I would have gone through mental anguish, I feel they would as well. I believe that everyone who has considered this issue, whether Houston elders, or anyone who read the book, etc has gone through a deliberation. Therefore I believe that although there are many "toeing the BB line" they are "under the burden of turmoil within". Like WL said, some deceptions take 10 years to unravel and this is certainly one of them. When you make a mistake and you are suffering under the burden of turmoil within, after 10 or 20 years you will wake up one day and finally decide it is time to do the right thing because you just can't manage this burden any longer.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I strongly believe that other people are very similar to myself (kind of an offshoot of the principle to treat others as you would have them treat me). If I would have gone through mental anguish, I feel they would as well. I believe that everyone who has considered this issue, whether Houston elders, or anyone who read the book, etc has gone through a deliberation. Therefore I believe that although there are many "toeing the BB line" they are "under the burden of turmoil within". Like WL said, some deceptions take 10 years to unravel and this is certainly one of them. When you make a mistake and you are suffering under the burden of turmoil within, after 10 or 20 years you will wake up one day and finally decide it is time to do the right thing because you just can't manage this burden any longer.

If this were a personal offense that needed action and reconciliation, I do believe BP would have acted on it ... years ago. The root of the problem was the authoritarian mindset passed down from WL. Now I must admit that I do not have a "working knowledge" of BP, since I never was with him close up. Some of my observations probably are drawn from TC and others whom I did know over an extended period of time, and whose mindset also matched that of WL.

For example, years ago I was close to one brother who was quite fruitful. At one point, he was seriously ridiculed during a message he was asked to give in Cleveland. It was an arrangement made by TC that various brothers would travel to other churches for 4 weekends, laboring with the elders and saints there, and then sharing in their meeting. This brother and a partner (we traveled two by two) were assigned to Cleveland Hall #1, where TC lived in the back yard. Looking back, this whole thing was probably a setup. TC came into the back of the meeting late, and promptly proceeded to tear into him publicly. It was ugly.

The brother then demanded an apology from TC, which was never going to happen. There were other times of conflict also, besides this one Sunday morning meeting. Later on I asked TC privately about restoring him, and TC's answer to me, "he has touched god's government." In other words, the brother had violated God's throne, he was basically "toast." The brother was history, and I should not waste any more of my time with him. With a mindset of predominantly Chinese authoritarianism, coupled with exclusive and elitist views of the Recovery as God's unique testimony on this earth, there was just no chance that TC, during the mid-80's, would understand that he needed to apologize to that brother for any wrongdoing.

Let me try to explain this for those who might not understand what happened to that brother, (or Jane Anderson, or any of the quarantined brothers, for that matter.) In the mind of TC, (or WL, or BP) his actions were no different than a judge who sentenced a convicted murderer to death. Would the judge repent for his actions? Absolutely not! He was only meeting out just judgment, and protecting society from evil. He was just doing his job. He was protecting the church, the Recovery, and God's testimony.

For BP to act on the inner turmoil which resulted from his abuses was akin to leaving the faith. His faith and Christian service had become inextricably intertwined with WL. BP had only done what WL had done. Remember the slogan, "What Would Witness Do?" For BP to repent to Jane A. would set in motion a chain of events that would question everything about WL. And that was not going to happen. This is why I heard TC say many times, "WL is my spiritual father. It is none of my business when my father makes a mistake." WL actions were one area that TC did not discuss. He would and did critique every brother he ever knew, but not WL

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

If this were a personal offense that needed action and reconciliation, I do believe BP would have acted on it ... years ago. The root of the problem was the authoritarian mindset passed down from WL. Now I must admit that I do not have a "working knowledge" of BP, since I never was with him close up. Some of my observations probably are drawn from TC and others whom I did know over an extended period of time, and whose mindset also matched that of WL.

For example, years ago I was close to one brother who was quite fruitful. At one point, he was seriously ridiculed during a message he was asked to give in Cleveland. It was an arrangement made by TC that various brothers would travel to other churches for 4 weekends, laboring with the elders and saints there, and then sharing in their meeting. This brother and a partner (we traveled two by two) were assigned to Cleveland Hall #1, where TC lived in the back yard. Looking back, this whole thing was probably a setup. TC came into the back of the meeting late, and promptly proceeded to tear into him publicly. It was ugly.

The brother then demanded an apology from TC, which was never going to happen. There were other times of conflict also, besides this one Sunday morning meeting. Later on I asked TC privately about restoring him, and TC's answer to me, "he has touched god's government." In other words, the brother had violated God's throne, he was basically "toast." The brother was history, and I should not waste any more of my time with him. With a mindset of predominantly Chinese authoritarianism, coupled with exclusive and elitist views of the Recovery as God's unique testimony on this earth, there was just no chance that TC, during the mid-80's, would understand that he needed to apologize to that brother for any wrongdoing.

Let me try to explain this for those who might not understand what happened to that brother, (or Jane Anderson, or any of the quarantined brothers, for that matter.) In the mind of TC, (or WL, or BP) his actions were no different than a judge who sentenced a convicted murderer to death. Would the judge repent for his actions? Absolutely not! He was only meeting out just judgment, and protecting society from evil. He was just doing his job. He was protecting the church, the Recovery, and God's testimony.

For BP to act on the inner turmoil which resulted from his abuses was akin to leaving the faith. His faith and Christian service had become inextricably intertwined with WL. BP had only done what WL had done. Remember the slogan, "What Would Witness Do?" For BP to repent to Jane A. would set in motion a chain of events that would question everything about WL. And that was not going to happen. This is why I heard TC say many times, "WL is my spiritual father. It is none of my business when my father makes a mistake." WL actions were one area that TC did not discuss. He would and did critique every brother he ever knew, but not WL

1. "The root of the problem was the authoritarian mindset passed down from WL." Let's be clear, this may be a root cause, but it is not an excuse. The NT says we have the mind of Christ. No one has the right to take some excuse that "I learned this from WL". The reality is that the Lord said the Pharisees lorded it over the flock and they didn't get that mindset from WL. This is clearly something the Lord condemns.

2. "He was seriously ridiculed for a message he was asked to give in Cleveland". On these forums many of us, myself included, have ridiculed the messages given by RK, WL, etc. I believe you reap what you sow. This is a common weapon of the enemy, but the Bible says that at one day all will see Satan exposed and then they will mock and ridicule saying "this is the guy that everyone was scared of?" (I am paraphrasing, I think this prophecy is in Hosea).

3. "TC came into the back of the meeting late and promptly began to tear into him publicly." This is abuse, it also suggests that he was unable to deal with this brother according to the truth hence his need to take this approach (public ridicule and humiliation). This is a strong sign of unrighteousness on the part of TC.

4. "He has touched God's government". I had an experience like that once, I have already shared it, about the Professor at my University who slandered me to my parents. I didn't lift a finger in retaliation, it was the Lord that did everything and when I prayed that the Lord was too extreme he rebuked me. My point is that TC has exposed his hypocrisy, if the brother touched God's government then God will deal with it. Moses didn't give Miriam leprosy did he? He didn't dig a pit for the rebellion of Korah to fall into did he? How egotistical to think that if someone has done something you don't like that "they have touched God's government", second how hypocritical to say that and then usurp God and deal with it yourself. I believe TC will have to answer to the Lord for this, if true he is guilty of rebellion in usurping the Lord's headship, if false he is spreading evil rumors about brothers to bring in division.

5. "With a mindset of predominantly Chinese authoritarianism, coupled with exclusive and elitist views of the Recovery as God's unique testimony on this earth, there was just no chance that TC, during the mid-80's, would understand that he needed to apologize to that brother for any wrongdoing."

The Lord tells us to repent of wrongdoings. We have no right to say that it goes against my mindset or views. The wrath of God is stored up for such as these.

6. "In the mind of TC, (or WL, or BP) his actions were no different than a judge who sentenced a convicted murderer to death. [I]Would the judge repent for his actions?"

Who made TC judge of the saints? The arrogance of these impostors is outrageous. The Lord has never given us any authority to judge other saints. We can judge sin, self, flesh, etc. But remember, with what judgement you judge you shall be judged, so it is best to focus all of this judgement on your own flesh, your own self, your own sin. If this account is accurate TC must repent because it is he that has touched God's government.

7. "His (BP's) faith and Christian service had become inextricably intertwined with WL."

I cannot answer this, only BP can. If this is true he must repent. Our faith should never be inextricably intertwined with anyone other than Jesus. BP has publicly condemned Catholics for having their faith intertwined with Saints and the Mother Mary. So, if this is not true nothing should hinder him from dealing with the sins of this case with Jane. If this is true then he needs to repent of this sin first.

17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

After reading this account, these verses in Romans refer to TC. He was clearly causing a division. It was clearly contrary to the doctrine we have learned in the NT. He obviously wasn't serving the Lord Jesus but his own belly. And his "he has touched God's government" was obviously designed to decieve the simple.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The brother then demanded an apology from TC, which was never going to happen. There were other times of conflict also, besides this one Sunday morning meeting. Later on I asked TC privately about restoring him, and TC's answer to me, "he has touched god's government." In other words, the brother had violated God's throne, he was basically "toast." The brother was history, and I should not waste any more of my time with him.

If I understand right demanding an apology is "touching God's government"? It's been my perception this phrase is invoked whenever brothers have their backs against the wall. It's a defensive reaction to vindicate or to extricate themselves from answering exposing questions.

[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Ohio

The root of the problem was the authoritarian mindset passed down from WL.... In the mind of TC, (or WL, or BP) his actions were no different than a judge who sentenced a convicted murderer to death. Would the judge repent for his actions? Absolutely not! He was only meeting out just judgment, and protecting society from evil. He was just doing his job. He was protecting the church, the Recovery, and God's testimony....His faith and Christian service had become inextricably intertwined with WL. BP had only done what WL had done. Remember the slogan, "What Would Witness Do?" For BP to repent to Jane A. would set in motion a chain of events that would question everything about WL. And that was not going to happen.

Amen to what you wrote, Ohio. I like your comparison of Benson's behavior to that of a judge matter-of-factly sentencing someone. That is spot on.

Two Different Persons

I'd like to give some of my thoughts about this. Benson's behavior (and that of other LC leaders such as Titus) is the result of a strong belief system, primarily concerning deputy authority.

In Benson's way of thinking, his actions as a deputy authority are completely separate from his actions as a person or a brother in Christ. This means that in his view what he did to me was a result of carrying out his God-given responsibility as an authority of God, and it was not anything personal. (I've heard this excuse given for this kind of authoritarian behavior.) Therefore, he thinks that since he (Benson, the man, the Christian brother) did not do this, but he (Benson, the acting deputy authority of God) did this, he has nothing for which to repent. In fact, in his thought, if he were to repent it would be the same as repenting for being obedient to God. That's not going to happen without some major truth earthquakes in his mind that dislodge his delusion.

A brother who was very close to Benson in the early years said to me about him (paraphrased): "Benson is one of the nicest, most likeable people you will ever meet--that is, as long as you do not 'touch' the church. If you 'touch' the church, he turns into a completely different person." Having known Benson myself, I find this statement to be true. The brother indicated that he found the ‘different person’ change to be very disturbing. (I heard this statement from this brother before Benson had ascended up the LSM ladder.)

The Power of a Belief System

Benson's behavior over these many years shows the power of a wrong belief system. Satan knows, far better than we do, that whatever we believe controls us. He knows that if he can control our beliefs, he can control us; therefore, he works to gain a foothold in what we believe. One method of doing this is by delivering subtly deceptive teachings to us through Christian teachers that he has previously deluded (I Tim 4:1).

Benson was taught that God needed people to act in God's place as "authorities" on the earth. He believed this. He was taught that God always has one man in any age who is leading His up-to-date move and who is God's current oracle. He also believed this. By the time Witness Lee, the man whom Benson recognized as God's oracle, had recognized Benson as a deputy authority, the enemy had succeeded in fully ensnaring him.

Delusion is a powerful weapon of the enemy. I make it a point to pray that my family is delivered from all delusions and that no more new ones ever take hold.

Delusion in simplest terms is believing and acting wholeheartedly according to something that is not true. Delusion is like a leash by which the enemy leads us around by and causes us to do whatever he wants done. Jesus told us to take heed that we would not be deceived. As believers, we will bear responsibility and be without excuse for becoming deceived because we have been given access to truth (the written word of God), the Truth himself (Jesus Christ) and the Spirit of truth (the one whose guides us into all truth).

Benson’s Conscience and God’s Light

Only God knows how much Benson's conscience has worked in the case concerning John and me. I personally believe he has had very few, if any, twinges of conscience. When we raised the subject fourteen years after the fact of his 1977 action, he may have had a few twinges because some others were hearing about his past actions for the first time; however, I suspect that he was able to subdue any twinges by reaffirming to himself his deputy authority beliefs. In other words, he could easily reason away any blip of his conscience as being a twinge of weakness or a temptation from the devil to fail in his responsibility to God as a deputy authority.

The only thing that can rescue Benson is truth that penetrates his darkness. I believe he will need a dose of truth-delivering light directly from Jesus with a magnitude close to that of what Saul needed to open his eyes. I continue to pray this will happen to him in this life.

Paul told Timothy,

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves that peradventure God may give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. (2Tim 2:25).

In this verse, I think that Paul may have been referring to his own experience--knowing that it was God Himself who had given him repentance to the acknowledging of the truth and knowing that his past religious zeal, to the point of killing others, was a result of his being a captive of the devil. (This verse also shows that those who see that someone is deluded have a role to play by meekly instructing the deluded.)

The Place of Prayer

I think that the reason I have been able to not be bitter towards Benson, to continue to pray for him all these years, and to seek several times to gain his ear, is because God showed me that Benson is a captive under a strong delusion from our common enemy. I also believe that by showing me this, God put me in a place of responsibility to pray for Benson. If those who see that someone has become deluded do not pray for the deluded, who will?

I have to admit that after so many years, it is hard to believe that Benson will come to his senses in this life, but I haven't allowed myself to forget that we have a God of impossibilities and One who promised to answer when two or three agree on earth concerning anything.

Thankful Jane

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I strongly believe that other people are very similar to myself (kind of an offshoot of the principle to treat others as you would have them treat me).

I'll bet this belief makes you kind of vulnerable.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I strongly believe that other people are very similar to myself....When you make a mistake and you are suffering under the burden of turmoil within, after 10 or 20 years you will wake up one day and finally decide it is time to do the right thing because you just can't manage this burden any longer.

I wouldn't be able to continue this way for more than 10-20 years myself, so I don't think Benson can either, says ZNP, 30-40 years later.

[OBW]

I have not read the book in some time, but I recall that while BP wasn't directly antagonistic during the BM/SC affair issue, he ultimately did nothing and said nothing. He did visit their house, the perfect opportunity to make some kind of apology, yet he did nothing except sort of hem and haw around, then leave. If that was the apology, then it was drastically different from the certainty with which he spewed on Jane all those years earlier. If he didn't recount his error, he didn't aplogize.

And if he had truly apologized, not only would there have been no book, he would not have felt free to speak with pride of his involvement in the incident that ultimately caused the book so many years later.

His little bit of time at Jane's door was sort of like Jimmy Swaggert's one show where he cried and said he failed, then "shot the finger" at anyone suggesting he should step down from his ministry, even just for a time.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by rayliotta

I wouldn't be able to continue this way for more than 10-20 years myself, so I don't think Benson can either, says ZNP, 30-40 years later.

The point is not that everyone will repent, but the reality is that many do, like a sinking ship BP will watch as one by one they leave, and that is exactly what has happened for the last 30 years.

Try this, take a Houston phone list of saints from 1977, choose only those "with the vision of Christ and the Church", eliminate those that have died. Now how many of those that are left still meet with the LRC? If it is only 50% why so few?